Let's talk about San Martin watches 

San Martin has very kindly provided TTT viewers an exclusive discount code. Use TOPTIER0129 for $40 off.

Outside of watch lovers and collectors, nobody is going to know that this watch is based off of a Grand Seiko.

I think this is a bit harsh to be honest. Clearly the watch is inspired by the Grand Seiko, but the hands, indices, bracelet (albeit that is a Rolex design, but let's face it everyone uses it) and dial treatment are all different enough. Would you feel empty wearing a Christopher Ward 12 because its so similar to a Zenith Sykline or a Czapek? The similarities are undeniable, but I think there are enough differences. Does the Black Bay monochrome give "a hollow feeling" because its a vintage sub with snowflake hour/second hands? Could you not enjoy a GP Laureato because of its clear inspiration, the AP Royal Oak? I could go on- my point is that most watches are effectively remixes of classic designs, and I think San Martin do that pretty well. I personally prefer their version to the GS, which makes it worthwhile in my book. I agree the San Martin brand is nothing to be excited by, but if you're concerned primarily about design, then what's the difference between this SM and various other cheap alternatives to classic watches- eg. the Cartier tank- that you've mentioned here in a positive light?

The problem is that i don't see the same level of criticism to non-aliexpress brands when they build designs that are heavily inspired by other watches. Islander, Smiths, Steinhart...the list goes on. Even brands considered "original" have so many similarities to iconic watches that it's difficult to say they are not homages as well.

You make some very good points, however I would still buy it🤷😁

Thing is, nearly every watch released now is an homage of something- either by the same company, looking at you Rolex, or from another. It's because a watch is a small item and has a function it needs to perform so there are only so many variations possible. There are very few truly original watches.

original or not the watch is damn beautiful and well made. so if u dont want it send it to me . I"ll take it! 😁

I have noticed a lot of the big watch reviewers are are all over downing, homages, clomages, what ever they call them. Then when it’s one of their favourite brands, they have all the excuses why it’s ok. It’s Madnes😉

I think we're seeing the birth of the next generation of Seiko and Citizen.. and they're called San Martin, Baltany, etc.

I also have this watch and I completely understand what you are saying. I love SM in general, I think their watches offer great quality for the price and I do have the SN0131 that you originally requested (it isn't an original design either, Wolbrook Outrider case, PP Aquanaut dial). They are doing a mix between different watches and calling them their "own design" but I'm actually ok with it. Yes, it doesn't feel like you "conquered" something by buying them but I do appreciate what they offer in term of "price vs quality" as I find myself bored of my watches after a while (even Omega and fancier ones). I would recommend SM if you already have a bunch of watches or are planning on having a collection of different designs on a budget. But if you want to feel accomplished when showing off the watch to someone else then get a Swiss watch or something expensive. If you accept what it is, then you will be fine with yourself! I have other microbrands and to be honest, I prefer SM over Zelos. I ended up selling most of my Zelos (only have a meteorite dial with me now) because I do get bored of their designs fairly quick! Something about them don't make me keep them long term... I have older SM in my collection and never sold any yet nor am planning to.. I do enjoy my Venezianico watches but in terms of quality, I think SM offers so much more for 1/3 of the price. They are a budget watch company and I hope they stay like that without adding any fancy movement inside (like Venezianico and Zelos are doing, because frankly, their latest releases are getting so expensive that I prefer buying established Swiss watches instead)... Another thing to mention is that my Citizen watches completely lost wrist time after I started wearing SM. The quality of Citizen sucks (feels cheap when holding and wearing) compared to SM when they have the same price. My current rotation by preference is Omega, TAG Heuer, SM, Venezianico, Wicked Watch Co, Baltany, Addiesdive, Locman, Mido, Zelos, Tissot, Citizen, Pagani. Cheers!

Я ни ЗА,ни ПРОТИВ SM. Но меня бесят эти разговоры про оригинальность дизайна.... Часовые метки у всех либо круглые, либо прямоугольные, единственные стрелки которые действительно отличаются от других-это TUDOR( интересно что курил тот человек, что решил что это снежинка?). Корпус у всех круглый, либо квадратный или прямоугольный... Сделайте свой, оригинальный дизайн и представьте его нам, зрителями и дайте задание найти общие черты с другими брендами. И потом посмотрим что останется от вашего "оригинального" дизайна.....

You're far from being an idiot. You have the right to your opinion and your ranking choices. If others disagree, let them start their own channel and remain respectful to yours. Please keep making your great videos. I just love them👍

As someone who does not really care about brand heritage, San Martin watches really excite me. Beautifully crafted cases and well-made bracelets are so important to me. Sometimes I kind of wish I cared more about the history of watches. But the simple truth is that I don't care unless I have some sort of personal connection. For example, I love Casio watches because my father always liked them, which I learned at a young age.

My BB 58 San Martin Homage is amazing and I wear it all the time. And I own Rolex and Omega…

The problem I found with San Martin Watches a time ago was the bracelet links were finished internally in a sharp angles not in a polished smooth angles, I dont know if that was corrected in later models.

This one covered in PVD gold and the white dial. I'm in awe.

It is not a clomage rather influenced by GS. The case, dial, hands are different Many Swiss brands take influence from other designs. SM are heading in the direction of Phoibus , we hope as they are talented. If only they employ a western designer, I would pay more SM have started a new Microbrand with original Chinese Domestic orientated designs They are called Jianghun but the designs are not our culture

I liked where you put/ranked SM before! : ) I like this one too... I have been planning to buy a san martin watch for 1,5 year now, but I still miss something.

Great video! Wow. Does it ever look like the GS! I’m still toying with that square chronograph you posted. Didn’t realize they have a few other colours from a previous year.

Really appreciate how straightforward you are about what you think, regardless of how that might affect a relationship with the brand etc. I also think this is a great buying guide for viewers, even if they don't share your views.

I still feel like you are being too harsh on San Martin. they might not be completely original, but nothing really is.

honest review! keep the good work!

For me originality isn't very important. Practical designs, good quality production and affordable price is enough. But here is SM's problem, they are above 150 Euro limit and missing dependable EU dealer. I really don't want to go through the paperwork hassle of customs office.

San Martin is killing it. They will grow into their own with time

To be honest i think it takes some ideas from the Grand Seiko, but calling it a clomage is a little much. If anything, the round Aquanaut one feels waaaaay more clomagey to me than this one and is also using a design element that is very specific to Patek, and somehow you see that one as an original design. The video one does copy some elements from the Grand Seiko, but you could also say Grand Seiko copied those elements from 2000 other watches.

It’s inspired by Grand Seiko. It’s not a copy. The hand set is different amongst other features. I have no problem with it.

Thanks for your honest thoughts. That SN0129 may be inspired by that GS model, but definitely not a clomage type thing, not even close. I am just a rational normal person who enjoys his Seiko 5s and Alpinists, but also enjoys SMs. From a rational perspective, it is confusing to me when someone keeps hammering the words that he feels bland and empty and boring because SM doesn't offer anything different and yet hypes up the Tank alternatives or Tsuyosa which are 100% original designs? Or any dirty dozen type watch, the designs of which are so unique and original that none has ever seen before? Please help me understand.

It’s made and finish better, but it doesn’t make other people look over and say that’s expensive so it doesn’t give you a woody

Right on point. Great video

Welcome to the party mate, I guess better late than never… the best analogy I’ve heard is that Chinese watches are like Japanese cars in the 70s. They will be mainstream by the end of the decade.

Very well put. I get the same empty feeling with “clomage” watches.

Looks more like the Christopher Ward C63 GMT

Hi Keiron, here is my call on it. I own the 0130 and 0129, and they are both superb. The 0130 definitely isn't a homage, and it's debateable whether the 0129 is a DIRECT homage either. Although there is a similarity to a GS, the hands, indices, and lack of a power reserve meter pretty much make it a watch of it's own. If it's a homage, then you would have to consider the Chris Ward C63 GMT as the same. Homages/clomages are the biggest debating subject on any watch forum, and for good reason. Nearly every watch produced has something in common with another watch. What really annoys me is that some enthusiasts accept brands such as Seiko using the designs of Rolex (for example) but won't accept it from brands such as Pagani or Cronos. I no longer buy what I consider is a clomage, but have no issue with their production, and appreciate there are those who love them. As a matter of interest Jodie considers it an original design

Way to get em going Kieron! 😀 This looks like a really nice watch, the dial is beautiful. Great specs for the price and flawless finishing. Obviously it's not an original design but I can see why people like San Martin. Another great video mate, cheers 👍

Interesting conversation. I’ve just ordered a Watchdives 50 fathoms homage. I justified (so I do get what you’re saying) my purchase as it’s a homage to a watch that’s no longer made. Not got it yet but spec seems very good for its price tag. When is it ok to draw ideas inspiration from another brand? Lots of people here have pointed out that even well known names do it and after all it happens in most industries. Are San Martin watches simply just a well made watch at what appears to be a wholesale price?

Again… San Martin started out doing straight up homages of other luxury brands. More recently they have made some attempts at original designs which haven’t impressed me thus far. Great value for the money but as of yet, have not stretched beyond a homage brand IMO.

And the quality is definitely better than their design….

Level headed response, props to you and SM. At the end of the day we all like watches and it’s okay to disagree with each other. I’ll keep it short and simple because I’m seeing a lot of think pieces below: Just wear what makes YOU happy.

Beautiful watch. Well made at a great price point. I'm going to order one. I don't really get the romanticism around original design. To each his own. Well done review.

That’s a really nice piece of Aventurine too, it’s like gazing into deep space

I completely agree with you. No matter how well they are build, San Martin watches lack character by my opinion, and that’s why I will never buy one. When looking at one I simply feel nothing

Regular Seiko buyer here - I've bought two SMs recently and they're amazing quality for the price. I WILL buy more. Their 39mm 62MAS homage is quite superb - easily on-par with the SPB143. Easily... 👍

This model comes in three different dial variants. Adventurine (this one) the White Marble and the Lapis Lazuli (whatever that means) all cracking looking watches imo, thinking of buying all three 🤔. Brilliant review as per 👍

Great review, I actually think I would prefer this as a standard 3 hander rather than GMT

I don't know, mate. It doesn't look like the GS for me. It might be inspired by it, but it's definitely not your typical aliexpress homage

Good review, and fair, imo. That said, I only yesterday ordered my first SM. I want to see for myself if all this talk about “finishing” is about. White turbine dial with bright orange numerals (SN0132), a design that seems original enough (to me, at least).

I think it inspires as well from Breitling chronomat automatic gmt 40

I have a Proxima which is fantastic. All these more developed AliEx brands are growing. I personally dont like homages either, but i pulled the trigger on one and its a daily wear now.

Good point with the red details written Text on dail or tip of second hand or GMT hand...so many colors to choose from but always the boring red.

I currently do not own a San Martin watch however they are on my radar , problem is that they just kinda hit some of my hot buttons . I mean they are ok but nothing jumps out that I cannot get from Orient , Citizen , Seiko well you get it , just nothing original . Keep up the good videos you are good at what you do !

You haven’t hung around with flipping this one! Since you are, fancy a straight swap with the white/silver wavy dial version? (SN0129)

I think they are Wise are probably the best AE or Chinese watch brands at the somewhat affordable scale. They seem to be superb in execution. Take care Kieran!

I wonder how you would have felt about the watch if you hadn’t discovered its inspiration??? Definitely looks like a great build. This has so many “traditional” elements to it, though, that it’s hard to pin it down to one particular model.

Thank you for calling this a copy. Dave from JTW was trying to pass this off as a completely original design. You can change little details, but this watch would not exist if the GS SBGE 283&285 were never made. Even saying "heavily inspired" is being too generous

What some people down here should not mistake is that TTT is speaking from a subjective position as an one of enthusiasts just like one of us, not an objective position on behalf of all enthusiasts. In my point of view, that watch is freakingly well made, noone will deny about this, it out-qualities most of mestige and micro brands for under $300, however, it just does not attract me enough due to its hiphop grafitti vibe logo and a feeling of I have already seen it somewhere. In terms of design, there are differences between homages that combine the originality of other watches. Mixing a lot of good things doesn't always lead to good results. Rather, there are cases where adding a little creativity makes you press the purchase button.

I actually Like it. I noticed that the Erebus Ascent 3 best seller's atm were the white dial the Burnt orange Fume and a similar Black with speckles (stars) similar to this one you are reviewing. Out of interest I have pre ordered the Purple Fume Ascent. That aside the Black Dial speckled one similar to this San Martin as I said is extremely popular. They both remind me of Space , the final frontier......lololol IMHO the San Martin does it slightly better than the Ascent. They should call it the cosmonaut or something . I also wish that they would stop putting 100m=330 ft. Choose one or the other.

Extremely thick diameter, I would happily take a quarts movement to save space on the case size for this design.

That dial looks fantastic

This is my problem with this review. Holding back this brand because it has borrowed elements from another watch (tho not entirely) is using standards which other watches are not necessarily held to. Hear me out. Watch trends, like clothing fashion, are generally led by the big boy companies. Smaller brands ape these all the time. And this isn’t limited to Chinese brands on Aliexpress. Without a doubt there are definite rip offs from the earlier San Martin watches but there is no denying that they are aiming to break away from this pigeon hole they find themselves in. To be honest, I think they probably sent you the wrong watch.

A good and very fair review. It's clearly not a clone but perhaps betrays it's influences a little too heavily, and for me is just too busy.

This is a GREAT looking San Martin btw

generaly you are right although most of the people dont care about full originality

Love San Martin 👍👍👍

This watch is amazing and san martin are killing it

Love your videos. I understand your point and a watch is about how it makes you feel. I'll be honest, I actually love the feeling of wearing a fantastic watch and knowing I've paid 10x less than other people. Who designed the watch first doesn't bother me. That's just dates. I just don't care. Even if I were super rich, I probably wouldn't pay big money for Rolex, Omega, Grand Seiko etc. it just doesn't make any sense to me.

99% of all watches are inspired or take design ques from other watches. It's fair enough that you have no interest in the clomages but this particular model certainly isn't one of those. To each their own though. Keep up the great work 👍

100% agreed on all accounts.

similarities are not too big it is not clomage

I have a few San Martin watches and the value is pretty good for around $250 to $300 which is not anywhere other better brands that are Swiss made but when you think of how much more one or two watches made in Switzerland will cost the average person then it is a no brainer. Even if I had $40K I would not pay such huge amount of money for a Rolex, Rolex is a fine time piece but it is more about paying so much for the ‘ name ‘ ..😊

I've said it for 2 years, SM is a serious movement away from being a true swiss killer. Don't hate on them, Tudor started exactly the same way and half their current range is straight rips. I have the sn0131g, it's amazing and that chain mail bracelet is better than my zodiac.

hey kid!!! SM is excellent quality

I'm not a San Martin fanboy but it is starting to look like you've got an axe to grind here. I also think comparing it to the GS is a big reach. Case and Bezel? sort of... The rest?.... nothing like.

The watch looks good to me. I really don’t care what the watch brand plays homage to. I’m not a watch anorak, or snob so if I see something l like l purchase it. I’m to keen on replicas.

Seems like aggressive marketing by SM gets neverending counter-marketing, because even if the watch they have made is actually a pure and classic homage with bunch own features, eventually it still gets criticism as if they just changed the logo, lmao.

I don't think your feelings are related to this watch being inspired by other watches. I had the same issue when I first saw this watch and thought - well, lots of sparkle and shine...but not for me. My personal preference is more towards clean designs in a nice, tasteful package. The watches designed by San martin (not the 1:1 clones) don't really have that.

I don't get why many of you reviewers claim that this watch is not original. You do know that there's not much you can do to the classic design with how small watches are? Unless the manufacturer intended to stay away from he tried and tested classic designs, all wrist watches will look similar somehow. Even big company names releases look similar to each other.

Maybe the upcoming SN0144 might peak your interest!

I generally agree with you. It is not as obvious a copy as some others. Yet, there is one bit of fallacy here in that you chose (second choice, ok) this watch and they then sent it to you. Was it foolish to put homages among the options? Yes, probably a little, but you chose this seemingly expecting it to be fully original until you found its likeness. So, it would have been a better exercise with any watch San Martin themselves truly claim IS original. That still may not change the current ranking of the brand in general, but at least on the basis of the product it would have had a fairer chance.

Why was there a shot at phoibos?

How can you say it’s a homage? Every watch has to have the same constituent parts, this is different enough from GS to be original in itself. That watch face is completely different to GS, I don’t agree.

Very original and thoughtful making another (!) video of a watch tier list. Bravo for that!! Look. By this point in watch making history, the only originality is taking place on the inside of a watch. They are of generally round, have twelve or so markers, some type of complication we have seen a million times, etc. All permutations have been done. I think it is reasonable to say that dropping the price point for an equivalently (or better) finished product is as original a feature as changing the color of the word ‘automatic’ from black to red. I think you are being a little disingenuous to pick out San Martin in this respect.

Sorry, but the lume is outstanding. Easily lasts all night on mine, with only exposure to normal use light.

Does not look one bit like the GS, I own both

I think that is a nice watch ⌚

To bad u didn't pick one that was a true original like either one of the other 2 they offered. I'd take a sm over getting ripped off by seiko any day of the week.

Price over originality. I'm a buyer, so it's my money vs. value. If we compare value vs. money, any steel watch over $500 dollars is not worth it. Originality will not add value to me. It only helps the brand name to keep raising their price at the expense of the customers. If the price of a grand seiko is 10x more, then they better offer 10x more value.

San Martin is aiming for value. That's an objective measure we can all appreciate.

Interesting that the phrase "original design" is so often repeated across RU-vid watch channels, particularly as thats the one thing i hardky ever see on these channels. Legacy brands are hardly original anymore . I see original designs advertised on fb all the time yet have never seen these watches on RU-vid watch channels, i jusr saw interesting original designs from a bramd called OBLVO (Terrible name ) yet hage never seen these on ant channel. I am.nor convinced at all that its original designs you're all interestsd in.

Has anyone ever tried suing for the rip offed designs. Rolex is definitely evil rough to give it a try

Nice homage, not a complete copy. Different dial, hands, indices, bracelet etc. The new cronos is more of a 'clomage' as they call them.

I think you are a "watch Snob". It resembles a Grand Seiko in that it has three hands, a dial with 12 markers, like every other watch!

You create excellent video reviews, often making interesting points, and I enjoy them quite a bit. But, as soon as you mentioned “the soul” of a watch, I had to stop the video. I’m not mad; I’m not unsubscribing; I will continue to enjoy your reviews. But these are just watches. Watches having souls is just a bit too silly for me. By the way, I bought the SN0131 at the last sale and didn’t realize it was discontinued. That surprises me as it is an excellent case and bracelet. I plan to use it as a mod base and am very pleased with it.

Dude, You knew ahead of time what you were getting with that watch. Yes it’s a homage but 97% of their watches are homage watches. It just seems like you were looking for another opportunity to smash their product. Maybe next time do more research and buy one of their original designs. The SN0144X is coming out soon and it’s build as an original design. There are images on the Internet for you to preview it, you should’ve held off for that one.

I think you've done very good and very fair review.

Finally, someone that realized that this watch is not an original

Wanna sell it😊

Wow I didn’t peg this guy as a San Martin hater.

I'll have that SM off you as you don't like it. Thanks

If you have personally reviewed 10 + of their watches then i think you are in a position to comment on the brand, if not then maybe just stick to each watch individually. This goes for ALL brands. I wish you well.

All the watches you see are influenced by others. A grand seiko is typically just a knockoff Explorer. I never find these watch critics are consistent. It’s a bit like the wine industry, based on snobbery.