Any other youtuber would of just kept the old video and not thought twice, massive props to Sam for for re-reviewing it! it really does show how dedicated he is to his craft and his audience
@@SamsTrains hi sam, the light bleed issue, here is a way you could deal with, take the smoke box door off, cut a little bit of black electric tape and put on the inside of the smoke box door and put the smoke box door back should solve the problem.
Not a great look for Hornby,quality should be their watchword;especially given their pricing levels,and the fact that other manufacturers are improving Quality and reliability for similar costs...its a shame....
I don't think I'll be buying one tbh. I'll be at the NEC tomorrow and I know Hornby will be getting flack over things like this. Mind you their 08/09 shunter is something I am after. Concerning nonetheless.
When Hornby Dublo first made the BR standard 4MT tank in 1954 , the first batch consisted of 100,000 models made , but only 6 were returned with problems. (Hornby Dublo trains by Micheal Foster, page 112)
I have a Hornby Dublo 4MT tank out right now on my layout (converted about 30 years ago to run on two rails), and save for being a bit of a power hog, it works fine 70 years later!
Perhaps not a totally fair comparison - Dublo 4MT was bomb-proof diecast metal with comparatively few details - vs. modern plastic with lots of tiny fragile parts - but poor contacts and moving parts like running gear falling apart should not happen, esp. on first test!
Even if Hornby gets it perfect this time, it would be so much cheaper and better to buy a used, beat up old one, and buy a Brassmasters detailing set and Comet frames AND still maybe have money left over for a High Level Kits coreless motor gearbox! Only in decades could Hornby think of making something to equal that, but they won’t, as Hornby do love using cheap Chinese components instead of expensive, quality parts. Thanks as always Sam! It’s kind of you to give them a second chance.
Well done for giving it a second chance. I might give this one a miss. Not being able to easily change the lamps, the warped running plate. Dodgy connection loose crank pins. Unacceptable faults. Thanks for putting yourself through it all again. Cheers Paul.
Even with the improvements, considering you still had lots of problems (even though you were able to fix most of them), you had every right to not bother buying another one. I am still glad you did another review
If Kato made something like that someone would commit Seppuku and there would be a total recall. Only that would never happen in the first place because the people at Kato don't know what glue is and the bits and pieces of their trains just interlock or squeeze fit perfectly without warping. Some bits do occasionally come off but that is because we are a clumsy westerners 🙂 Last time i bought something from Hornby it was through their subsidiary Arnold, because I am a continental N scale guy. I got the single cab GT6 tram It had a decent quality but a relatively high price compared to the limited features (no lights)
You seem to have missed the fact that the sand pipe behind the centre left driving wheel is bent outwards and forwards, and appears to be rubbing on the outside of the wheel rim.
That's a professional job, Sam. It demonstrates your commitment to your trade. If your experience is replicated even by a small percentage of customers, then Hornby will be in financial trouble. The main issue seems to be with the drawbar connector. If this is a systematic defect, then the warranty claims will be ruinous for Hornby.
I have a new acquisition rule - wait 'til Sam reviews it before buying one. Luckily, I avoided the Fell trap, able to cancel that order before fulfilment after Sam's review, and have found that generally, your reviews are spot on. My layout is currently down due to wiring issues, so I can't comment on how my new Black 5 will run for me when it does arrive any day now. Hopefully the fancy steam option and DCC all work, and the lamp issue isn't there. I WILL check all the crank pins and just give the contacts a shot before even trying the running. As with any Hornby product, I will check - and adjust the wheel flange distances, not just the back-to-back, as the Peco bullhead points are very touchy around the guard rails. Forewarned is forearmed. My challenge is the very high cost of shipping here to the colonies, and return shipping charges are even worse. (On new items, the your VAT is not included, but the shipping is nearly always the same as the VAT). I recently had to return an electronics item (not a Hornby product) for repair and got quite a shock. The box was about the size one could fold and fit a necktie into, weighed about 4 ounces, and cost me nearly $75 (60 GBP) to send, which was a disaster, as I finally realized I could have discarded the original and bought a new one from the same UK vendor for a total with shipping of about 5 quid more. I think the US is trying to pay off the national debt on postal and import charges.
I honestly do blame Hornby, they are asking someone to manufacture a thing for them, provide specifics and quality as well as budget it falls upon them to do quality assurance testing to make sure it never dose impact customer. If you were to buy a car and it arrived with bits falling off and engine not cooperating with clutch that was made in some contractual partner's factory you would not give a flying scotsman and would blame the company behind the car right? Agreed that sample size of 2 is low but i mean it is just one mr. Sam's trains doing the testing not a lab ordering tens of individual examples to compare there is only so much he can do. Sorry to see things have not improved that much.tho i am glad there is a concerned effort to retry things if given the opportunity (tho this than opens up discussion weather or not some of the positive reviews need a second sample to compare it to... things like that snowball fast). Good stuff this review and glad it did not need to be hooked up to a random spare bit off another loco just to do bare minimum.
I agree with the quality control being bad as i recently bought a 48ds, and the chasis was glued on and no matter what i did i couldn't remove it to dcc fit it!
Hi Sam, Had a look through the comments and didn't notice anyone else bringing this up, so - the Black Five jumps twice during filming. You notice it the first time, on the first attempt at Gordon's Hill (I also wonder if that shook the crankpin out?), but it happens again at 24:12 , you also have the right angle to see the bogie totally jumps. As this is repeated, may be something to look into! Thanks for the review, I'll be skipping on this one alas. (my wallet breathes a sigh of relief!) All best, Chris
Good job mukka. Keep riding Hornby and give them flak... they deserve every adverse comment. I'm fed up with their obsession with using inferior quality manufacturers. 😮. Stay safe and happy. Regards from Oz. Gaz
I've had very similar issues. Pretty sure my lamp was glued in. Couldn't get it back in. Tender connector gives up on tight curves so loco stops. Connecting rod came off whilst running too. Also had a part fall off.
@LittleWicketRailway do you have a video coming soon on yours? I have seen other review where people have had problems, and others which are absolutely fine
Made in China,No quality control.. I Still have my original UK Build Black 5 locos and they are running great..Won't bother getting one from China.Thanks Sam Honest review.
I am glad that you got yourself another Hornby Black 5 to review Sam. Even though, this model still has quality problems on some parts of itself but at least the replacement Hornby Black 5 is decent for yourself to keep it this time Sam.
I think that the reason that you are 'super sensitive' to things like a minute 'bowing' of the running plate 'etc' is I believe down to YOU being an Engineer by trade and by education , and that is one of the main reasons I hold your site superior to others apart from L.M.M. and Barry (whose surname has to my great chagrin eluded my 72 year old memory...possibly till 30 seconds after I post my twaddle :/ ) he being a former loco driver of a similar vintage to myself, when he reminices of previous 'times' I listen with great joy because he speaks from experience won from hard work at his trade. So Sam lad keep up the good work , your knowledge of things unknown to most of us other troglodytes makes you a very special reviewer! :)
They were either Hornby shareholders, friends of Kohler or just Hornby FanBoys who can't bear to have them criticised, bit like deranged Taylor Swift fans...
A fair follow-up review. I did notice that when running through 'Gordon's Hill' (24min 10sec), the front bogie still attempted to derail, despite you tweeking it. As you have said, and I totally agree with it, Hornby seriously needs to look at the quality control, not just on this item but the whole range, as these issues keep cropping up.
So glad to see this Black 5 actually works. I was excited to get one of the new models, but now I don't think I will. Both your reviews have proven some faults, although this one seems to work. Either way, great review Sam.
Thanks Sparky - it is good to have one that works - it means I have one to keep now too which is good! Don't think I'd recommend it though - can't see those connectors lasting a lifetime! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Coming from someone who is old enough to be your grandad....this video goes to show the maturity of your reviews. Well done Sam for listening, and accepting criticism or suggestions...as you are often good at . You are head and shoulders above the arrogance of 00Bill , or the childishness of locomotion motion. Sadly im sure some in the trade will still look down on you because of your layout. But heres hoping you can get your own place soon and use a purpose line for testing and reviews. Well done mate 👏
Glad you did two reviews.and it's definitely reinforced the fact that Hornby needs to get a better grip on the manufacturer as far as quality control goes.. I've only bought one new Hornby in the last year and it's been a disappointment from the minute I unboxed it. When I have 30-40 + year old locomotives that constantly out perform it it doesn't really inspire me to get my wallet out again to take a chance on another new one
Hi Sam so glad you decided to get another one and give it a second chance as you did the hush hush. Really enjoy your videos and I like you have had my layout on the floor for many, many years. Recently a friend built me a 6x4 baseboard on legs as I my own legs struggle to get me off the floor. With seeing your videos I have bought some of the models you have reviewed as they look stunning. Thanks again Sam happy modelling
Märklin is still manufactured in Germany, right? They’re going to be good if that’s the case, German stuff, much like Japanese, much like English, is built to withstand the test of time
Sam, it all well and fine if you live in the UK to get a replacement, and even then it is a hustle. But there are people living all over the world who collect these models. I understand that there always can be a model that slipt through, on a blue Monday, but that so many complains pop up, that's not normal and is an unforgivable factory fault, and Hornby can turn it the anyway they want, there is no excuse for it. I've seen people in Canada and Australia having big problems with this. That's why I always buy with a retailer like Rails, and always ask if they confirm, the model is in ship shape before shipping. If they actually do it or not, I can't confirm, but hold wood, I never had such a problem. Tip: Sam get a pair of tweezers with Teflon or plastic tips, very good advice if you regular work on locos, it will avoid nasty scratches.
I bought a Hornby Black 5 about 20 years ago and after a short time a coupling rod was bent out of shape whilst running. Watching your two videos on Hornby's latest version does not surprise me.
Top marks for giving it another go Sam! Shame it's still faulty. I'd have sent this one back too. The feature of movable lamps that you can't move would have done it for me. Admittedly it's not a feature ive had before but its a big selling point for the loco.😢
Sam thankyou for your second review of the Hornby model, second chance and they didn’t make it out the box to the rails and one laptop without you having to intervene. Credit to you and your dedication to us out here with your review. Especially when you have given Hornby the open opportunity to respond or comment about these flaws. Enjoy you model on the layout. All very best Marc from Leighton Buzzard
If I remember correctly, Walthers/Life Like used a similar method to connect the tenders on their proto 2000 USRA 0-6-0s and 0-8-0s. However, it seems to work better on the proto 2000s than the Hornby black 5. The proto 2000 6-pin connector had a lot less resistance than the Hornby version.
Nicely done for re-reviewing Sam, thank you A shame the performance isues reappeared in the second reivew. It was very interesting to see your in depth look at the lighting (not a feature I was particularly keen on anyhow) and the pros and cons. One thing I did notice is that I think you'd got a drivers side sand pipe that was out of positon, good couple of "scale feet" above the rail level. A bit disappointing that a model I'd been looking forward to getting and likely a stalwart of many people's collections has these issues. Thanks again.
Excellent job Sam, you are to be commended. I think you provide an excellent public service! Why can't manufacturers do there own self assessments including your criteria? Keep up the good work and disregard any negative comments on your fair reviews.
When used to have issues with a similar type connector on instrumentation at work we used to use ink rubbers to remove the oxide of the connector. They should be gold plated rather than using tin, but that costs more money. Perhaps this is the difference, I need to check the Dapol model to see if theirs is gold plated.
Great news, for Sam, not Hornby. Well done for giving the model a 2nd chance. I was genuinely surprised that you decided to keep it! Just a strange thought, there is no chance that the running plate is prototypical? This British Engineering & it may have been measured up from a "preloved" example.
Did you buy this one from the same retailer? If so could they both be out one bad batch? No matter what it’s a bad show. I’ve been planning to start a layout for some time, only just moved and got the space to start, and watch you for ideas for what I want to run, and tbh the rate of faults for the costs involved are putting me off
Always figured you'd give it a second shot; it's just who you are. And please don't take that the wrong way, it's part of what makes your channel so good. Had high hopes for this one when we saw the running sample with the new connector, shame it turned out to be one to keep an eye out for in the sale. Thanks again Sam
This thing costs £230 near enough, but it has the advantage of requiring finishing off by the customer before it will work correctly. So the price is fine seeing as you get extra play value from it.
haha very true - in that case I have some extremely fun blocks of metal and plastic for sale for £500 - just whittle them into the shape of a model train and you'll have years of fun! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
24:10 for it to be struggling to negotiate the pair of curves isnt good enough when you are being charged £200+....Im assuming the firebox is okay with this one?
The feature with being able to change the lamps around and have them light seems like a great idea. It needs refinement to solve the light leakage and difficulty of removing/fitting them (I don't think you should have to apply your own glue or gel to do it), but that's a really neat thing to be able to do. I don't think it would be impossible to fix the issues with it. As for the rest of the model the quality issues are definitely a shame, there's no excuse for that. I'm glad to see you gave it another try though, great video!
All credit to you for conducting this second review, Sam. The first was fierce compared to another more straightforward and problem-free review which I watched. However, it’s instructive to see the same issues recurring with your second model.
Doesn’t matter where something is made, the build quality and design all rest with the “maker”. In this case, Hornby. Just because it’s made “off site” in no way diminishes their responsibility for producing a product equal to the quoted quality and specifications. That goes for any manufacturer, be it Hornby, Bachmann, Peco or any of the multitude plying for our business. Having got the BR version with sound and smoke on order (due later this year), I’ll keep my fingers crossed that it doesn’t have the same issues. A word of thanks Sam, for listing what you’ve found to be the major issues. A trip to the Loco inspection and repair shop before I let it loose on the track might be in order. dB
Well this is depressing. I just got into 00 gauge. I was excited to finally have a layout and start buying Hornby products, but my first experience was a brand new $400 AUD princess coronation that stopped working after an hour(could hear the motor run, but wheels didn't turn, sent back for repair), and now this video is putting me off pre ordering the future steam generator version of this loco. However, the Bachmann stuff I am running has had no issues...
I take two magazines on subscription; Rail Express and Hornby. Whereas Rail Express give warts and all reviews, these are for early diesel era models onwards. However, I admire their honesty and lack of fear in potentially upsetting their major advertisers. Hornby magazine, on the other hand, give poor reviews. I have just read their Black 5 review in the latest June edition. There is no mention of the lack of weight due to a plastic boiler and no mention of the glued lamp issue. I suspect they do fear giving critical reviews. Which is why I am now watching more reviews online. Thank you for taking the time to produce these and performing a thorough review. I have pre-ordered the Caprotti web exclusive model, I'm filled with trepidation! Paul.
The connector might as well be designed that way. Usually with hot-plug connectors you want to connect ground/return path first to avoid any damage to the electronics on board.
I suspect on the first one, one of the finger connectors that grips the circuit board was broken or bent. Seen it happen to lots of instrumentation in the old days. We sensibly stopped using those types of connectors ages ago.
He did it with the hush hush and did it again with this one massive props Sam for doing this truly shows how much you care about your viewers and giving them nothing but the best. Amazing job best model railway reviewer on this platform. Would you ever consider reviewing a bachmann class 158 (new or old) or class 350?
Fair play. Wasn't expecting you to go down this route again. I know I wouldn't. Shocking quality from Hornby for the price. Glad you got it working well enough to make it usable, but as an amateur without the technical knowledge to fix things I'd still expect it to at least work out of the box. That for me would be the bare minimum for plus £200!
The lamps system seems clever but has to be improved and eased to become a standard in any future loco. This also including a simple tool apt to fit and remove the lamps. It would seriously add to realism.
Nice re-review Sam... I feel you've been quite generous in this video... Personally I see this this as a pass.. As nice as this loco is. It's better to wait for hornby to properly fix the issues as it sours the experience to have a dodgy loco
Ill confess i dont know if its possible but i suspect it could be, but I'd get some little neodymium magnets for those lamps, if you wanted to change them over (same as how table top wargamers do this with their models). Just put one inside the hole in the loco and then another inside each lamp (making sure they can make contact with each other) and you can just swap them. 1x or 2x1mm N52 sizes can hold a lot of weight for their size. I'm not a model train enthusiast, just someone who enjoys your videos Sam. Keep up the good work.
Hi Sam if you take a look at this video at about 24:12 the pony truck appears to climb up the rail at the 2nd curve and drop back on as it comes onto the straight. It's a shame Hornby seem to be having a lot of quality problems of late let's hope they can get it sorted out. Thanks for your honest reviews keep it up be good stay safe
I'm very surpris4d that the supplier of the replacement didn't actually check and / or test the replacement for the faults that you previously mentioned to ensure you got a decent model devoid of any of the faults, especially as the model isn't supplied as sealed package. i realise that retailers can't test every model that they send out, but as your original review did high-light some very serious problems that made the model, to use your own phrase, 'unfit for purpose' I'd have felt that the retailer would have done that extra bit to ensure your model was as good as possible. A bad review or faulty model model not only reflects on the manufacturer but a faulty replacement model could also reflect on the retrailer and it could adversely affect their sales.. Kudos to you for deciding to give Hornby a chance to redeem themselves, but it seems they still have some work to do..
Well done Sam for giving another model a go. I thought the interchangeable lamps would be a nice feature, but clearly the factory haven't a clue (rather glue). Owners shouldn't have to be checking assembly. My newly tooled Hornby Prairie threw a crank pin within a minute on running in too. Quality is clearly a factory issue and Hornby need to be visiting and getting it sorted. Glad I'm modelling GWR so I'm not at all tempted by this. Cheers as always.
Star Wars headlamps : to remove them, may the Force be with you... Well, I had decided last time to ditch her from my shopping list, decision confirmed right now. I stay with my old model, not fancy but she's working fine. Sorry, but we are close from Heljan in terms of quality with this one. Now, for Hornby models, I will only buy them after having seen your review, Sam. As the Who sang : "Won't get fooled again" ! (By the way, I checked my shopping list; Except for the L1 in BR black I have no Hornby model on her by now after having struck out the Black 5) If someone else (e. g. : Dapol, Accurascale, or even Bachmann) wants to manufacture this one, I'm interested.
I added a comment in your first review about Hornbys QC. Nothing has changed for me to edit that comment. I will add that I also run G scale garden railway. Since your review I've bought a g scale tanker wagon, what do I find underneath? A quality control sticker with a date on it. Why can't Hornby do this, to show they check some of the products?
The fact Hornby is basically expecting you to fix their problems shows how much they have fallen from "Grace" I honesty hope the company is watching because if they are i have one thing to say... This locomotive model would fit in PERFECTLY with the MBTA Subway System, also known as America's Most Dangerous Rail Network.
Thanks for double confirming that I don't want this model, even though I would like to have a Black 5 in my fleet. I should probably start looking for a 2nd hand old Hornby Black 5 online
I think you might be able to improve the problem with the connector by adding small strips of tin foil to make it a tighter fit. This would be a reversible mod! Thanks for uploading.
A very interesting second take on the same model. I have to say, having recently returned to UK modelling in the form of TT:120, I have come to expect poor QC issues with Hornby models. Bar one, I have had to return every TT loco I bought due to running issues, etc. etc. Unfortunately, I have come to expect this with every new model I buy. One good thing is that Hornby (I buy direct) do seem to have great customer service. It's annoying and often disappointing but I've found that the replacement models I've received have been a great improvement (don't know if Hornby test replacement models before they send them out). I'm absolutely committed to TT:120 as I find it to be a fascinating scale so I have just come to expect a bit of back and forth until I get a decent model.
Hi, my model had the draw bar issue (cleaning didn't help) and I was also concerned about the bogie pushing up the front driving wheel which you highlighted in your second review. Mine has been returned for a replacement. I will report back on what I find. Can you advise what you did to adjust the bogie spring. I have a gradient so I have no doubt I will need to add weight!
I'm currently waiting for my 3rd W1 after the first one had a dodgy motor and a few other faults and the second one had a dodgy mechanism. Appalling quality control and no joke with the cost of these things.
Great review, any chance you could expand on what you did with the front bogey. After saying that my version was performing better than your first version I started to get intermittent stalling and slowing down. I’ll try cleaning the contacts. I have noticed that there is a tendency for the front bogey to derail. I’ve a mail into Hornby asking for suggestions. 30/05 update, loco went to Hornby just over a week ago, came back today with a ‘tender chassis’ replacement, runs perfectly on my imperfect track. Therefore one happy modeller. Now I’m not saying that is the solution for all B5’s but it’s sorted mine. Kudos to Hornby for a prompt response to my mail and a no fuss repair. I know it shouldn’t have happened in the first place, but at least for me it’s sorted.
Sam, your reviews carry a lot of weight, love the reviews, even got the tee shirt, would you please open the boxes on the workbench, or get new slippers, keep up the good work!
Hi sam love your reviews watching your latest black 5 issues .The A4 locomotive golden fleece has same tender locomotive coupling problem and had hard wire them together to resolve it.Therefore after watching your review will not be purchasing a black 5 thanks for the heads up. Hornby is losing my custom in so many ways as I live in Australia replacement locomotives is not easy Thank you sam Regards Ian
I know it’s your money and I’d never dream of telling you what to do with it. But I think you did the right thing here. A lemon can always get through the checks it’s just the nature of manufacturing but two that’s an issue. They clearly don’t have good quality control on this model.
Not a loco I would fit what I model but respect Sam to carry out another review. Worrying that there are still similar issues but at least this one allows you to run it! Should we get these kind of issues on £200 value of anything? Also impressive that you are offering Hornby a right of reply and I hope they take it. Would be interesting to hear what they have to say and perhaps a start of a dialogue between Hornby and their customers and maybe improvements?
You should review the Bachmann Durango and Silverton set, it's a really nice set if you get it for a good price. (obviously not on Bachmann's website!)
Someone needs to do an inspection at Hornby's factories because something must be happening for them to produce engines that are sub-par. Also, the different lamp meanings depending on the placement are so smart, and i love it (talking about IRL)
Hornby recently moved a lot of Scalextric production from China to Vietnam and Airfix Quick Build from the UK to India to reduce labour costs and the impact has been very poor finish and noticeably cheaper materials. It's only a matter of time before the locomotive production moves too. Chinese manufacturers frequently subcontract partial or full production to Vietnamese companies, that could have happened here.
Both Black 5 videos are Great reviews. Hornby should take note for a loco that is ridiculously priced. I have noticed over the last year or so, the magazine reviews are stupidly biased! They used to highlight errors but no more, they are all in favour of manufacturers and never show faults. Look at Heljans new Virgin 57, they obviously have no license for the Thunderbirds branding and names so have just printed blobs on the bodyside! Have the mags highlighted it? Nope!
Hey Sam! Will you be reviewing the new release Rivorassi Allegheny when they come out this year? I have a model from about 10 years ago and it runs well and pulls decently for me. Have a good one!
