Thanks for featuring SJ. I've been following your channel for a while - very cool stuff! The cross-legged hug is banned in SJ for good reason. It's executed differently than the examples of "drop ko soto gake" that you showed. The SJ version endeavors to keep your leg wrapped and to apply an extreme amount of pressure to your opponents leg while you drop your weight onto it. The result is often a broken leg. This move was a favorite of Beijing brawlers back in the 50's and 60's. Mr. Li is demonstrating an extremely "polite" version in the vid. As you know, SJ people (CMA in general) try to stay on their feet, for a number of reasons. Therefore, any movement taught in SJ that goes to the ground endeavors to actually finish off your opponent.
as a Kali self practioner, me and my big brother almost broke my right arm and almost became a juego todo. kinda hard to be self teaching on this one ngl
even someone without grappling experience will instinctively try to trip, hold the opponent's arm, or headlock their opponent if both combatants got into a grappling match.
Since you make this video I think you'll be interested in the channel "Mu Shin Martial Culture" currently he's making some videos on SJ that you may be curious about, with part 3 coming out soon enough.
He's had lavell Bryant on his channel, who was just on the mu shin channel. I actually contacted him via insta after seeing him on this channel to ask about training shuai jiao in china
Great stuff again bro. In Shuaijiao all of these are still legal and done except the first technique (which still allows certain variations of it). In Bokh they are all legal. The Degee with the chin strap is a Bokh variation hence why he’s doing it (especially with underhook) and quite common. Lastly the “cross legged hug” technique shown here for shuaijiao and the variation for judo are two different techniques. Both are still done but this Shuaijiao variation used to be frowned upon because it turns into a kneebar submission though still used. Matter of fact Ariela uses it and won a few comps with it. The judo variation is a different technique that we call Gashaa here and is one of the most common for both Shuaijiao and Bokh among the Mongol players. Love the breakdowns, keep going!
You are very special and I always say that your channel is one of the best channels by choosing the best good topics in the world of martial arts in addition to your distinctive style of presentation and value-added information
I think rokkyo is made up name at your local dojo . Waki-gatame is a well known term derived from pre-judo era, and people (both aikido and judo folks) didn’t bother to add another name to it
@@shodansmith But there is no roku in the Aikido kihon. It only goes as far gokyo, with that one being a quite odd knife take down that doesn't get practiced much. The technique shown in the video exists in Aikido (& most other martial arts) but it's not called roku in aikido, and it's certainly not part of the kihon waza. Most aikido dojo would describe it something along the lines of omote tenkan hiji kansetsu
I did a whole Chen style seminar on just its throws. Opened my eyes. Was explained to me that over 80% of applications is grappling (throws or chin na).
Dang bro, that first technique was giving me flashbacks of when Shinya Aoki broke Keith Wasniewski's arm with that Waki Gatame in that mma bout back in the day. Vicious kansetsu waza
I think this martial art may be the ancestor of jujutsu and, thus, judo. And may have indirect influence on catch wrestling. Which led to pro wrestling and luta livre.
Shuaijiao's roots are very deep. There are also multiple Shuaijiao styles... Baoding style, Sanshou Kuaijiao, military "combat shuaijiao", etc... one of the old sayings in Gongfu... "Shuai, Ti, Da, Na" (roughly translated to "throw, joint lock, strike, kick").
Yes! Combat Shuaijiao is a Taiwanese branch of Baoding Kuaijiao, developed by Chang DongSheng and his students (Primarily David CK Lin). They have Xingyi and Shaolin influence as well as modern Sanda / sanshou. Essentially it’s like mixing Boxing or kickboxing with Wrestling, but the wrestling itself is still Shanpuying Shuaijiao (Buku). The diff styles themselves are relatively new, from the later 1800’s into the 1900’s but Shanpuying wrestling was officially started in the mid 1600’s. Prior to that it was just Mongolian wrestling (Bokh). This is tracing back specifically what we call “Chinese Shuaijiao” today.
@@bboyshaolin I appreciate the informative reply good sir. I've been a fan of your martial arts work for a while now. Big respect to all the warriors keeping the spirit of Gongfu alive in the modern day!
We should campaign to unban morote gari, basic double legs and single legs. They would make it much more effective for MMA, self defense, and against opponents you dont want to clinch. Banning it so olympic judo didnt look a lot like wrestling is the biggest nonsense EVER
Even if I was a Khabib level grappler I dont want to clinch chest to chest a guy 5 inches 40lbs heavier than me in the street, even if I have a dominant position/grip. I want to single leg him and mix it up
The idea of all so-called combat sports is to make a spectacular show, not to demonstrate real martial arts. That's why all effective and possibly dangerous technics are banned - people just won't pay for a 5-8 seconds long sparring. You want to destroy a martial art? Make it a sport!
@@Cody-gu8li you can, and yet, there are rules for self defence, I guess depending on where you live. Here in Canada If I was attacked I would have to prove to the court that I did my human best to extricate myself before resorting to physical combat in Any way or I could also get charged...
I recall back in the early days of Inside Kung Fu, this are was featured. It is said to be very effective in the right hands, just like any art. This was like 40 or so years ago. I recall that they showed a very old, but fit master of it. Thank you for showing it in action.
While Judo is one of my favorite martial arts (maybe even my number one favorite) Shuai Jiao is equally interesting to me. Something I especially like about Shuai Jiao is the use of the legs. I also love to use my legs in much the same way when it comes to grappling. I've heard many different things about the history of Shuai Jiao and I've noticed that those who aren't familiar think of it as, "Chinese Judo." I won't go any further into the version of history I heard, but it's interesting nonetheless.
The only bad thing is shuai jiao has no ground work As for shuai jiao the name is Chinese from a ancient chines wrestling style but modern day shuai jiao is most from Mongolian and Manchurian wrestling from the Qing dynasty era.
@@teovu5557 I've also heard that some still practice the other techniques it once had such as striking and joint locks, but I don't know how accurate that is. Thanks so much for your comment by the way. I really appreciate you taking the time to share this information with me. :) I hope that you're doing well and that you are having a wonderful day.
The striking and locks weren’t a part of Shuaijiao. It was added by people that trained in other arts later in the 1800’s and early 1990’s. The name Shuaijiao itself is a new term. Zhong Guo shi Shuaijiao or what we call Chinese style wrestling today isn’t a Chinese art, it’s Mongol Manchu. The real wrestling styles of the Chinese(Han) are long gone . Today’s version is almost purely Manchu Mongol from the 1600’s, hence why it’s name was Buku(Manchu for wrestling which was a loanword from Momgolian Bokh) until the Chinese changed it 20 years after the collapse of the Qing. Prior to that it was just 1600’s it was just Bokh. Fun fact, the first teachers of the Shanpuying (Where “Shuaijiao” was developed) were Mongol wrestlers. This was recorded in official records by the emperor himself whom was unhappy that the Manchus kept losing so he hired Mongols to teach the Manchu youth. From there it turned into what we have today. 🙏🏾
@@bboyshaolin That would explain why Mongolian Bohk and Shuai Jiao look so alike. I've always wondered why that would be so my assumption was that at some point the two groups of people exchanged techniques or something to that affect. I'm glad to know the truth behind it, though. Thanks so much for taking the time to teach me about this, and I hope that you are living a happy and successful life. :) Also, I apologize for my lack of previous unfamiliarity. Thanks again for sharing this and I really appreciate you being so kind about it as well. I probably don't need to tell you how sometimes there are those who seem to get some kick out of talking down to others who don't know the same things they do.
@@bboyshaolin wouldn't Tai Chi or other so called "Kung Fu arts" be considered as Han style wrestling... But just that the combat application for those techniques have been lost or replaced with the Mongolian and Manchu styles?
The drop kosoto gaki look closer the Shuai Jiao is maintaining the leg wrap which can hyperextension the knee just as a figure four to the knee joint. While the Judoka are unwrapping the leg after the lift.
Shuai Jioa looks like a great system. Obvious similarities to Judo but the short sleeve jacket is good due to having less grips which leads to a more balanced throwing form for real world application.
... Shuiao Jiao is sadly very weak against Judo and Bokh specifically Bokh... This was already documented. Shuiao juiao uses too much movement, less leverage and less realism of the fact people have posture, balance and muscles... It's why the Bokh players were able to slam the ShuaioJiao wrestler.
@@mishaaskar3323 SJ competition has its own rules that would be difficult for judo guys to pull off there techniques. Same for Judo comp and Bohk/Mongolian Wrestling.. MW's sensitivity to touch is higher in tune cause of there lifestyle and brotherhood of training. It always how you train. Nothing weak anywhere, heighten your senses.
Sleeves like on Modern gi were a common thing back in the day with clothing so more practical than, No gi is a thing however and the early versions actually have short sleeves, not practice too much nowadays but there are still people focus on that. check out channels like Nick Yonezuka and chadi got a few videos on the topic like the military Judo one.
Must be my lucky day! I missed this when it was first uploaded, thats why I binge on your past videos Chadi. I very much appreciate this comparison. The video on Mongolian wrestling is next. BTW there is evidence that Chinese/Monglian wrestling is at a minimum four thousand years old. Peace.
Was about to say this is just Chinese Judo but it's actually more dangerous. I recently purchased some old VHS tapes of Shuai Jiao and the little I have watched it looks very interesting.
@@kakuto435 I never said Judo was older. Jujitsu is much older and Judo comes from that art. I was just pointing out and used the word " Judo " because SJ is similar to the throwing methods of the Japanese art.
@@adamsmith577 jujutsu is not of Chinese influence, Most Japanese martial arts don't origin or influence from China, that also isn't true about ninja got nothing to do with monks, ninja were spies and Commando units. What is known as SJ is actually younger than judo, on a side note an interest was taken with Jujutsu and later on to judo during the late qing to early Republican era. 神道六合流与上海“虹口道场”之谜 梦幻的预见性--民国武术家对地面技之研究① 解密柔术家野口清与天津武术会(1908) Only Chinese sorry a translator app could help tho, they're all from the same source so you can read more if you want.
@@eagle162 I've been to 6 different judo schools that never once taught anything military outside of olympic judo. Been to 3 different SJ masters, and all of them taught the martial non-sport techniques.
@@ibaryabaq9197 what I was saying is both main purpose is sports you can find people that teach outside that area tho maybe harder than the other but possible checkout Nick Yonezuka Channel,and that this is modern stuff.
At 2:00 gripping with lead hand is something Shintaro Higashi covered in a video I had the pleasure viewing yesterday. This brings home the point. Damn.
Hi chadi thanks for another great upload i was wondering if you know of any judo academy's near the inland empire that does plenty of ne waza i want to put my son in i have judo gene LaBelle's school here but thought maybe there was something closer to me
Another difference as it seems (I'm not a Judo student) for 4:45 (Outside single-legged hook). While you are correct things needs to start with a grip, that there is considered a grip, which I guess in Judo does not.
shaui jiao black donkey roll does look similar to ikkyo irimi in aikido quite correct !, even headlock and O-uchi gari combo is same as kali/escrima technique Baliog Palami ! " as long as man has two arms and two legs ,we will all fight with similar technique !", - Bruce Lee
It looks nothing like ikkyo of any kind. It's a straight out arm bar, which ikkyo is not. The technique shown in the video exists in Aikido, & most other martial arts. Most aikido dojo would describe it something along the lines of omote tenkan hiji kansetsu
I am shocked thst Kali would name its slams... Kali usually works off concepts and not techniques. Also most of Kali stems from Silat as they are direct cousins because Indonesians and Malaysians are the reason we have the Asian stock here in the Philippines, the origin al inhabitants are the Aetas who are cousins to the Australian Aborigines and look exactly the same. Ther eis also the fact, Philippines was governed by Bob Majapahit and Sri-Vijaya kingdoms before the Spanish came and super imposed Christianity unto the islands and by the sword. Colonized it for 400 years, bringing with them the Sword styles of Barcelona and Toledo. Hence Kali combining techniques and concepts and naming moves in Spanish such as Daga Y Espada, or Mano Y Mano, even the name Arnis and Eskrima is Spanish. Only lately did the change of techniques and concepts started to take Dialect names like Kinamutay (from the word Kinamut - to have scratched/ clawed Or Panuntukan - The punching... Direct translation. Sikaran- The Kicking. Doces Pares - The 12 Pairs.( The collective school that grabbed 12 different Arnis styles and put them under one umbrella term) Pekiti Tirsia - is not Filipino by name.. That is Malay. Which kind, not sure. Some even went full blown dialect and made names based in Bisaya, Tagalog, Ilokano, etc... These are just spoken dialects. Some even just full blown tried to över sell the system with weird names like Black Eagle Combat Jurnis ( Judo + Arnis)... Trust me they do it ALOT here.. It hard usually to fine true lineage Kali but the main ones have roots in the 12 Pairs, the Warrior arts of the tribal people or were systems named after people or places.. Example, Balintawak... Its a system that is based on the style of Arnis taught back then on the Street of Balintawak by Anciong Bacon. Real Kali HAD NO NAMES... they were just concepts, no styles. Example Latigo.... Latigo is just Spanish for Whip it eldescribed a way to use the weapon like a whip.
@@iatsd depends on what style of aikido you're doing .there quite few different variants today !. even Gozo Shioda's take on aikido was quite aggressive and direct compare to the Ueshiba O Sensei's version in later life which was more effoertless and circular in motion ;and yet Shioda studied under him ??...thereis even an aikidoflow site on youtube which is more street savvi .??
Chinese martial arts have lots of throws and locks (chin na) which easily pre-date jj and judo in Japan. In fact all culture in japan has been heavily influenced by its larger neighbour - China.
This is awesome, Chadi, but it appears that each nation has its own unique way, present and historical, of exercising Judo, Jujutsu, and this. When is the website going up.
in bjj there is a banned counter to the single leg with the head on the outside that is known to be a neck breaker, when the oppoenet has your leg and his head is on the outside of your body and you are both standing you can grab his belt and DDT him head first in the ground, on concrete this would be even more devastating
Curious question I have for you Chadi - How do you find the footage of various techniques being done from actual matches? I have been watching your channel for many years now. Keep up the great content. Thanks
Li Bao Ru video is from Dante Basili's channel. The old coach in the beginning is Wang Wen Yong 王文永 who was from around Beijing Airport. Tge video was made in around 2005/6, and he just passed away few years ago. The old coach who showed the techniques was 李寶如, and he is from Beijing southern suburb. He is almost 90 years old and still teaching. History of Shuaijiao is NOT controversial. Shuai means grappling, wrestling, throwing. Jiao means Talus. There are many folk Shuai Jiao styles in China, military training in Shuaijiao is well documented in official historical records and private literali writings, and Kang Xi Emperor established the Shan Pu Ying 善撲營 specially for Shuai Jiao and Qin Na, as well as horsemanship and camelmanship.
3:10 - this can inadvertently happen in bjj/judo sparring out of a headlock if the attacker has the guillotine like lock and drives you backwards and not down. I've experienced it first hand. It was not good...
That move that’s made to snap the neck is vicious if used in a street fight that person would be dead for sure scary to realize how fragile the human body is
hmmm...2:20...of course, everyone who pratice a certain martial arts could recognize certain patterns...I see with my "glasses" Pinan Sandan in Karate...
i learned a nuanced version of waki gatame from mitch kawasaki (judoka, hamilton, of some renown in judo circles) which was to make the arm opening lateral. as a jjj guy and systema guy though, i find waki gatame is generally legit as a principle, I've incorporated it into takedowns even in sparring. but you have to be very aware of that elbow and your oppo too for safety
Didn’t Peter Seisenbacher used to do a nasty combo uchi mata with a wakigatame “grip”, all the way to the Olympics, in the 1980s? Basically, you go over, or he breaks your arm.
Yes. Any activity that requires hard effort is Kung Fu. It would also fall under Wushu, which simply means martial arts. Some of the striking arts of northern China also incorporated some Shuai Jiao techniques into their syllabus.
mm kung fu is a term in Cantonese. to my knowledge Sanda haas included shuai jiao in some part in the curriculum. of course it is modified but the root is there. in general it is considered like any other chinese martial art as an style of its own just like northern prating mantis is, southern praying mantis, ba ji quan , xing yi quan and many many others.
@@darkcorsair247 The modifications to SJ in Sanda came from the fact that in early Sanda matches, the SJ guys would just wade in and throw, which was not exciting to the audience. The rules were modified so that throws can only be initiated after non-throw attack. SJ is considered its own "style" but also exists in most styles of CMA (northern praying mantis, taijiquan, baguazhang, etc.). There are some exceptions, but most have a heavy SJ component.