A cable camper standard may not be needed and adding it as an expense may not be worth it, especially if your Glanding in the tails it is a pointless thing
With more and more manufacturers doing these all RCBO boards at a reasonable price I'm waiting keenly for the first plug in neutral bus bar. This would run along the top of the RCBOs, then a single 16mm wire into the neutral bar. The neutral ports are already offset forward to allow this, and it would do away with the neutral tails.
They already exist in the commercial world - and available for type A single phase boards. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-e54ud_CIvEU.html - let’s hope they start appearing in the domestic world 😄
@@AndyK.1 Be great if they went the whole hog with ISOBAR and got rid of circuit wiring to protective device connections completely. You'd wire to main switch with tails, then to an 'ISOBAR' type bar with lever connectors for each circuits L, N and E. Then the devices would plug straight in.... Nice dream to have!
That would require a different mounting system, but I’ve done to the correct rating. It should not be too bad worst case put a clamp loosely across the breakers to hold them in place whilst tightening.
Wow, thanks James, that means a lot coming from you! It does seem a bit low but gotta trust what they say, maybe it's because the outgoing terminals are a bit smaller than an MCB?
@@lewden3275 bit if constructive criticism... I fit these as my go to boards now and have for a few years. However... the tails clamps tend to get in the way if the first rcbo and push it sideways a few mm as can be seen in this video. The spd's sit at a very slightly different angle on the din rail too almost tilting slightly upwards. And finally are there any plans to drop the control gear direct branding from the ones purchased through denmans, with stock currently up and down I'm having to use 2 wholesalers, if it was all the same it would be nice.
Lewden is my go to consumer unit as I only fit rcbo’s (Hagar is the best but I can’t justify the price). Nice to know they have a new model with dp rcbo’s. Hoping the price is as competitive as the old style I’ve used for years.
Firstly I am not an electrician, but I do know enough not to tackle a CU change and your videos on whether my CU needs changing proved very informative. I have my CU booked for change in just a couple of week as the property I live in is now 30 years old and to be honest doesn't seem to have been wired to any specific standard to start with, although I cannot say that it is unsafe albeit unsatisfactory with todays regs. I see the main difference between the RCBO and normal RCD/MCB CU is the price. I have been quoted £600 for the CU change along with the additional works to make the installation satisfactory. I was also quoted for a CU using RCBOs and AFDDs that was £1600 more at £2200 (all prices are plus VAT). I realise that RCBOs are not yet compulsory, presumably that will be in the next edition of the regs, but I would have gone for the RCBOs had they been cheaper. I would stand maybe double the cost over RCD/MCBs but nearly 3 times just busts the budget big time at a total extra cost including VAT and the testing already completed of over £2000. I don't think that until these devices are cheaper or compulsory that many home owners would voluntarily elect to have RCBOs installed. I'll give credit to the firm that test mine installation and will doing the work changing the CU, they did not pressure me either way. As I said I know enough, and have an internet connection to find out more from your excellent channel to enable me to make an informed decision, but that may not be the case for everyone.
The full RCBO option you've been quoted seems a bit on the steep side. It does however depend upon the number of circuits in your home. However more circuits on a dual RCD + MCB board starts to run in to problems as you approach the limits of allowable normal leakage current which can cause nuisance tripping.
@@efixx Just 10 circuits in total and all but 3 are 20amp or below because of the way the house was wired in the first place. If there is any nuisance tripping the electrician will be making the 60 mile return trip to sort it
@@CP-du3ci I got a 9 circuit Fusebox CU installed with RCBOs and SPD and test for £480! Whoever quoted you is looking to take you for a ride! Although AFDD are far far more expensive than just a simple RCBO so that might be why the cost is so high!
@@CP-du3ci I think you'll regret not getting RCBOs, the price shouldnt be that much higher and the benefits are numerous. No more one faulty circuit plunging you into darkness.
Nice video, thanks for posting. Not trying to be pedantic but are these RCBOs really double pole, do they offer overload protection on the neutral too? or are they single pole switched neutral like most other's. I know you can get double pole RCBOs but they are generally used in Europe.
Hello Andy! Our NEW RCBOs are Double Pole Switching but only has overload protection on the line pole. If you need any further information, don't hesitate to contact us!
Current only flows if a circuit is complete ~ break the circuit once and current will cease to flow. The isolation achieved by double pole disconnection protects (grounded) you from a higher potential on either of the supply-side conductors. There is no need to break the circuit twice in the RCBO.
Good video and thanks for posting. I wondered if I might ask, as it is a metal CU does the case need or perhaps benefit from an earth ? I see watching other vids that some manufacturers have allowed for this with a flying earth to a fixed attachment of the case...
I think all these boards have become like mobile phones they all look the same. I don't know if this is the case on this board, but I used one of their boards a few months ago and needed a type C for a mist system, I got a type C from the wholesalers, then found out it wouldn't fit, when i contacted lewden, they said the board was not designed to take a type C breaker, crazy.
@@lewden3275 hi, I am one of the minority that doesn't use social media, but I had one of your boards, needed a type C, CEF gave me a type C, but it turned out it was for a three phase board, when I took it back, they contacted lewden, who said the single phase boards are not compatible for type C breakers.
@@acelectricalsecurity Hello Anthony, we are sorry you was misinformed on our product offering. We offer Type C in both MCBs & RCBOs in both 6kA & 10kA, these are displayed in our literature & also on our website www.lewden.com
@@lewden3275 ok, thanks for that, I thought it strange, but I didn't check it myself, just went with what I was told by CEF and they were passing on what they were told.
Still a bit unsure about those square holes, you didn't actually demonstrate using them. I accidentally bought a Hager board with square knockouts & ended up having to buy some very expensive plastic conversion plates to turn them into round ones.
If you’re going to be doing rcbo-only units, the layout with those neutral wires coming off them into neutral busbars becomes *particularly* senseless. Wouldn’t it be allowed in Britain to have the type of layout more common over here, where input L and N are both on the input side? Usually accomplished with either dual input busbars or even click-in panels.
Here is challenge for you guys. Megger MFT cant do RCD 5x test on auto on Hager RCCB. I spoke with Megger, spoke with Hager. They dont know. Hager said you gotta do RCD test at the board with all the MCBs off, but it doesnt trip the RCD. What are you saying?
I looked too, but couldn't find anything. The promo videos often get pushed out months before stock gets to distributors. The single pole RCBO goes for abour £11+VAT, which is similar to the 'tall' Fusebox RCBO - so the mini 2 pole version may be pitched at same price as the one from Fusebox, around £18+VAT. I've only been installing Fusebox for last 6 months, but will definitely give Lewden a go if it's competitive.
I can't believe you're still being given uninsulated busbar for your consumer units. For the sake of 50p worth of plastic after mandating more expensive metal boards for a mostly overstated fire risk. EDIT: Reached the point with the terminal shield, but point stands. You can't forget a cover that's integral to the busbar.
@@efixx Not questioning your professionalism, I'm having a go at the manufacturers. An Australian supplier who tried to foist that off on we electricians would be pilloried, so it's up to the British professionals to tell your suppliers that naked copper is just so 1980s.
Always an enjoyable watch, but installing type A RCD's/RCBO's does not mean that's a problem solved. We need to be wary of certain kitchen equipment and LED lighting requiring a type F RCD (see e.g. professional-electrician.com/18th-edition/doepke-consumer-units/).
Why are manufacturers STILL only making such small boards as standard? Typical 3 bed semi with garage and utility room: 3 x lighting up, down, garage/outside 3 x rings - up, down, utility/kitchen 1 x dedicated fridge/freezer circuit on RCBO minimum to avoid false tripping elsewhere shutting off all power whilst on holiday! 1 x dedicated boiler feed 1 x cooker high power feed 1 x garage/shed power 1 x EV output 1 x solar PV connection Plus space for surge protector (WHY?? NEVER had any problem with surges and the last thing I want is total power off if there is one) Plus space for isolator (WHY?? should be an external isolator, post meter, pre CU - plus Henley block for separate feed/s to external shed/garage)!! Plus space for AFI Totally insufficient space in standard CU for all that with AT LEAST 2 blank positions spare for further /later requirements. WHAT? A whole NEW CU AGAIN!! JEEZUZ! What do you guys think customers have in their gardens ... Money trees? The actual cost of the metal box is a tiny proportion of the overall cost so fit one with space to expand. Better yet, let's junk CU's altogether and start fitting industrial style steel cabs 450mm x 550mm x 150mm with space for plenty of additional monitoring kit and home automation instead of all this ad hoc external (not so smart) technology on separate screens with zero connectivity to a computer. If anyone says something completely dumb arsed like "don't bother with ring mains , single spurs will do!" I swear I'll blow my lid! Just one 20A spur with multiple dual 13A sockets is incapable of supplying BOTH sockets with their rated feed. In a kitchen WITHOUT a ring: Kettle - 3kW Microwave - 1kW Dishwasher -1kW Toaster - 800W Fridge/Freezer (not on dedicated circuit) Cooker hood/extractor - 450W That's already over 6kW - 2 fully (over) loaded spurs without adding in other stuff also likely to be used at the same time. The only differences being: 2.5mm2 T&E cable ring main with ONE single run return to complete the ring and with headroom of 6 amps on the breaker and 50% headroom on the cable capacity Compared to: 2 x 4.0mm2 spurs to split sockets - how are you going to split them? How are you going to ensure that three heavy loads CANNOT all be connected to one spur thereby overloading it? Answer: YOU CAN'T! Hence the use of a ring for the kitchen and a ring for the utility room and play safe, for the increased cost of a few metres of 2.5mm, instead of a full run of 4mm for Upstairs power. The latter is ALWAYS more expensive!
Wow, what a passionate comment, thanks, there's quite a bit to unpack here but just to address the headlines. This size consumer unit filled the need for the three bed detached house that it went into leaving a couple of spare ways, of course there'll also be lots of installations that don't have as many ways. Surge protection won't disconnect the power it just absorbs the surge helping to protect the installation and equipment. You raise some interesting points on rings vs radials. I always take a case by case approach to this. I rewired my previous house with 16A radials and no problems on loading, I'll keep the ring for my kitchen when I refurbish it but recently put an A2 radial in my garage, it's about getting the right circuit in the right place I guess. 👍
Excellent video and commentary. l have always wonder how long it would be before double pole circuit breakers would become the norm in the UK. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
Wiring has changed so much since I used to do it, I've not seen a torque specific screw driver before, I've used a torque wrench when rebuilding engines. Have you seen the CU's with dual busbars? They're well neat, no need for all those neutral leads to the RCBO's, great for TT supplies.
Glad they’ve moved the terminals as well, previously the live wire obstructed the screw for the neutral terminal (or the other way round, don’t quite remember). Shame I can’t find any stock locally
The tail clamp gives trouble with the routing of the tails if you want to bring them directly up behind the main switch. The thought that they may have designed the new consumer unit with a little more depth in the enclosure and bring the DIN rail forward resulting in more space behind the DIN rail. Just need to find somewhere that's selling them now
Nice informative video. One thing I find with conventional tails after tightening I always give the tails a twist once or twice as they normally work loose and then re tighten. Maybe you don’t get that problem with those more flexible ones?
Most manufacturers do it this way currently, a few are starting to produce boards with neutral busbars like the line ones, mainly a cost issue I guess.
Unfortunate because the shoulder of the clamp for the tails was engineered too far to the right - no facility to move the clamp to the left. The fixing at the bottom of the switch was determined by the pegs on the busbar; so the result had to be a crooked main switch.
All those rectangular knockout are not ideal... Why don't all new board come with NO knockouts so you can cut what you need where you need it? Even a part-P sparks carries a full range of cutters, so designing your entry around pre-burst holes (often at APPAULING inconvenient spacing) is just SO 1990s, we have Starret TCT cutters, just use them! Also it is requirement to offset the RCBOs @ 15 degrees from vertical or a contractor preference? I think I'll leave Lewden (which they do well!) to make Ceeforms and use brand name consumer units, this is nearly as bad as a Hagar!
I had a comment from my inspector when I showed him a board that I had exposed the coloured insulation on the tails. He said it was bad practice, reducing the protection to single insulation. Thought it was interesting to see you do exactly as I had for years.
That's crazy I always strip the insulation tails back, my NICEIC inspector has never said anything. It's in an enclosure why would it reduce protection any more than all the other cables that are stripped back inside the enclosure, don't understand their thinking.
Yeah, that's how I've always done it. I guess the thinking on their part is that you should only take the lid off if the main switch is off so everything else is dead but the tails will remain live and so the extra layer of PVC will help. However the grey outer is technically a sheath not insulation so it's a bit of a void argument really. I think the takeaway from this is that if that's the level of stuff he's pulling you up on you must be doing a pretty solid job. 😊
I've had a similar thing in the past. I couldn't understand no other inspector mentioned it to me prior to that. These guys know their stuff inside out. I tend to use the coloured tails now.
They need to have a DP version of the RCBO and AFDD with a combined L & N bus bars as they have on the Continent. They call them combs. This means only one common bus bar in the case, the earth. So much easier and neater, and faster to fit.
@@efixx like a brand new set of crops it takes some getting used to to make sure you don't damage cores but once you get it you will find you only want to use it and nothing else
Surge protector leads look tidy but being at that end of the board extends the length significantly. JW's video on the subject shows that the length should be as short as possible for it to be effective.
Just personal preference I guess, the few times I have used Lewden if find the quality is no where near Hager! I did use fusebox the other day and I was pleasantly surprised.... maybe I should Lewden another bash 😅
In my country we usually have a situation where one phase is dead or is at low voltage. In that case we use a manual phase selector to switch the entire load to the good working phase. With these consumer units i don't see how you would add a manual phase selector. Any advice?
