Library Chat #13: On the Origins of the Ṣifāt Controversy | Shaykh Dr. Yasir Qadhi 

The so called "exposers" of YQ can never even think of anything like this,let alone making a crystal clear video on such sensitive and important topic.

Your tangents are wonderful gems, Shaykh Yasir 😁

I love it when he says Pause footnote

I'm a curious muslim, not a student of knowledge trying for a university degree. I grew up in a muslim country with muslim parents, and no one ever even mentioned kalam, ash'aris, maturidis etc. even though these questions come up in my mind when I read Quran. I love these topics because they teach me about concepts I never heard of before and allow me to make research and at least KNOW these things exist and I can study them on my own free time. I also like that you are relatively open-minded even if you disagree you can understand where someone is coming from. Being fair to other schools of thought is one of the rarest qualities you find in muslims online. Jazak Allah khayran

These Library chats are so therapeutic for me to unwind after a hard day, I'm very grateful for them! The imaan raising new knowledge and the battle of busting those intolerance gouls gives me a great dopamine rush, so much so that I feel as light as a bird after listening in alhamdulillah! May Allah bless you and grant you goodness Allahumma aameen yaa Rabb!

I love the library chats even though I am a layman. It's just fascinating to listen to and I like the more objective approach. I love our sheiyukh but you can definitely tell when they aren't being objective and I think that takes away from the benefit of knowledge and I think that can lead to doubts in some people. Please keep up with these, I love hearing where these ideas originate from. I've always hated philosophy for everyone taking it the wrong way. Personally, I don't believe philosophy is supposed to be a way of life, I think it serves us best as brain food to help with critical thinking, but in my opinion, people take it too far.

When can we have a library chat on Athari, Ashari, Maturidi creeds and their similarities and differences?

Please go on . Don't stop cheikh Yasir Qadhi. May allah rewards you I'm listening to you from Djibouti .

As Salamu Alaikum Doctor. I am writing since you asked us to tell if we want the session about the spectrum of opinions of Atharism. Yes, at the moment I want this very particular topic the most. One of your interviews hinted at the topic of "Development of Aqeedah" and then I read your PHD Dissertation and moved on to read Montgomery Watt and Ducan McDonald, and that led me to read many more books. I had discovered about John of Damascus and Philo too... And honestly the amount of research I had to do to know just as much as you explained right now was more than 3 months. SubhanAllah. Can you suggest me what to read to know about this Spectrum of Opinions of Atharism you referenced? P.S. : the topics you touch in library chats are really untouched. I too believe Athari and Ash'ari are just using different Terminologies but the final result is still the same. But we need scholarly precedence to even mention that. Thank you for providing that precedence.

I'm so relieved to hear this from sheikh Yasir Qadhi because I had a crisis in my aqeedah and I think thousands of muslims with me because I don't belong to any one group. I didn't feel 100% athari and can't relate a 100% ash'ari. Some things make sense in both creeds. I always kept quiet because I thought I was misguided or had a sickness of the heart or maybe the whispers of shaytan. But now I understand more about the spectrum of aqeedah, I'm in the middle of the middle I think. Anyhow going into one of my tangents here ;), please YQ keep your knowledge flowing, you can't imagine how much you're helping people with this, especially the confused ones brought up and raised in the west. If the athari scholars reject you and you won't be accepted by the ash'ari's you are welcome here with us and we will accept you with open arms and I have defended you online wherever I could and will continue to do that. Be at peace my brother.

Shykh, I'm personally a great fan of the library chat, watched every single one Alhamdulillah. Wanna see a full series on the topic of sifat controversy inshallah.

السلام عليكم دكتور One of my teachers DR. Saleh Abdul Kareem from Bahrain asked about you and told me that you were a good student in Madinah university. He also mentioned the teacher who was in charge of your master's thesis Dr. Mohammad Khalifa Al-Tamimi If you read this message then i hope you remember Dr Saleh Abdul kareem. He was doing his bachelors when you had done your masters

Please continue with the Library Chat format. These topics of early Islamic theology are extremely engaging and thoroughly informative. Alhamdullilah.

very well explained, as a student of Kalam I must say that there should be more videos on the topic

Dear Syaikh Yasir Qadhi, Thanks for your brief explanation about the history and development of Islamic Kalam. I really appreciate your effort to explain this advance topic of Islamic creed to all of us. I listened to your library chat and I found out through Google that some names you mentioned were very important figures in the academic study of theology. So, yes, there are a lot of scientific papers arguing about influence of John of Damascus to earlier history of Islamic Kalam (academically speaking). To be honest, I am a big fan of youm your books (I just bought your Sirah of The Prophet) and I really don't care whether you subscribe to any particular strand of Islamic theology (i.e., Athari or Ash'ari), as long as you recognize both of them as parts of the Ahlus Sunna Wal Jama'a. I come from the Ash'ari background (Indonesian Nahdlatul Ulama group) and of course I did my study on both Ash'ari and Athari creeds. So I know quite well how they differ in some topics of Islamic creed. In my humble opinion, the most important thing is how you contribute to the ummah and how your contribution reunite the ummah to work on the most important and relevant issues we find in our lifetime. By the way, just a minor comment, I laughed hard when you said, "Some of you will accuse me of showing my Athari bias, here is the irony, the Athari has kicked me out and the other groups will not going to accept me..." 😂 Best regards, Dr. Sunu Wiibirama Department of Electrical and Information Engineering Universitas Gadjah Mada, Indonesia

I like that poetic intro. 😎Allah huma barik lak.🤲🤲🤲

early development of Islamic theology is your best library chats next time inshallah looking forward when you talk about jahm

We need a talk about the development of Najdi dawa quoting the possible theological and methodological differences between it and the mainstrean atharism.

Salam, love these library chats!! They are truly a gem. You should definitely do more of these!

i love and appreciate ur library chats, thx

More Aqidah talks please, this is very enlightening

Fantastic talk, brilliant delivery, great research, love the diversity of the library chats, keep it coming.

I love these library chats ❤️ JazakAllahu khayran Shaykh

You’re amazing! I love your approach and the depth you choose. Definitely worth every second spent of watching this amazing series.

Such a lovely chat! JazakAllah Kheir Brother 🤗

Amazing Library chats especially like these!!

Best RU-vid format by far!

Amazing please continue this kind of talks

thank you very much - please do even more of these, looking at the historical developments makes everything much more clear

JazakAllah, Shaykh. I really would like to hear more from you about the different strands of Atharism.

Salaam Sheikh, please continue to do your library chats, I always look forward to these

Your library chats are of a high interest to us... Please keep making them

Thank you Shaykh for this interesting video! I was wondering about this topic for so long! Glad I found this video. Barak Allahu fik

i love all the library chats ...jazakAllah shaykh

Always a pleasure to listen to you Shaikh , MashaAllah. Shout out from Toronto !

Deeply appreciated you taking the time to elevate the discourse and simplify the typology and timeline of these issues. I hope that more of this, with all the disclaimers at the beginning and throughout as you did. Ahsan Allahu elayk, Dr Yasir.

My favorite topic ever thank you so much yasir qhadi

I really enjoyed this chat. Very interesting!

I love this kind of enlightening talk, please do more like this, really appreciate it. I'm not aware that this debate did not arise among the companions.

Love you my brother. Share what ever you are into. I enjoy open minded academic perspectives.

Jazakullah khair. This is a fascinating (but polarising) topic and I hope to hear more in future library chats

Love this stuff Shaykh. bārak Allāhu fīk Please continue with the other Library Chats that you plan to do. Extremely benefitial. May Allāh subḥānahu wa·taᶜālā continue to elevate you.

Jazak ALLAH ya sheikh for always highlighting some of these things, one thing that I like about your lectures is that fact from all sources you bring out and I love your tangents, May Allah continue to bless you with more beneficial knowledge .

Baarakallahufiiku Syeikh...really enjoy this lecture, looking forward to have more lecture on this kind of topics.

Salam Sheikh Yaser. Your topic selection is just right and I absolutely love your analysis. Also, please do not worry about tangents, at least on this library chat...

Of course we love this Shaykh. This stuff are on another level. Do these type of Library Chat more.

These topics help to put things into perspective and for me at least it helps to get rid of unnecessary hatred

Love this type of content!

More of this shaykh is needed.

A great lecture. Please continue ya Syaikh.

So beautiful job! May Allah put barokah in your knowledge and deeds!

Salam Shaykh. I for one am loving these library chats, you so seamlessly tie together history and theology and politics, which makes them super interesting! Alot of us would love to hear a lecture (or even a series) on the different strands of Athari theology.

Jazak Allahu khairan sheikh for your library chat sessions. We need more of these kind of topics on the internet by our scholars. May Allah bless and guide all of them.

Even for non advanced students, these library chats are so useful, please keep them going! Very accessible and balanced insight into Islamic theology which youll struggle to find elsewhere. May Allah continue to bless YQ with good health and wisdom, and all Muslims. Ameen

Excellent topic. Very insightful on the origins of these discussion. Barak Allahu feek.

Salaam Alaikum Sheikh As a layman I still find these chats very fascinating and easy to follow. Please do more.

That was very enlightening sheikh thank you from England

I love these library chats. Deeper knowledge. Very grateful. May Allah bless our Shaykh and his team for their efforts also.

Another free masterclass from Sh Yasir. May Allah reward Shaykh immensely.

Amazing perspective & education on the matter. May Allah preserve you and reward you for your efforts.

Jazakulah Lkhair that was quite beneficial Sheikh, I really enjoy these talks alhamdulilah

Jazakum allah khair Shaikh. Subhanallah I tend to avoid these conversations to focus more on the practical aspects of the deen. It’s a relief to know this wasn’t originally an issue of discussion amongst the Sahaba and that the root of all of this is certain individuals being too bought into a philosophical argument. Unfortunately the Christian schism rubbed off on our ummah a little bit, may Allah guide us and unite us on the truth.

Thank you. It is very interesting topic. Please keep you good work.

Sheikh your library chats are probably my favourite thing you do on this channel and I love that I can feel your scholarly passion for our deen. Please continue to make videos on theological matters may Allah reward you

This lecture answered questions that have plagued me for YEARS! I'm very interested (main body & tangents)! فتح الله عليك ورزقك الإخلاص وزادك من علمه وفضله

Please keep up the great work with the library chats. People like me living in the other side of the globe can’t attend your classes. Hence, it’s a great opportunity to learn from your insight Alhamdulillah and MashaAllah TabarakAllah.

Please more of this! Jazzak'Allahu khayr

Highly interesting. I like history. And dispelling the illusions and myths about our history is crucial.

I love this kind of library chats

Masha Allah shaykh ... It was informative and interesting Alhamdolillah

Really interesting. Please keep on and share your knowledge and your views. In our era we really need this type of honest scholarship. May Allah reward you and guide you and give you all that is good.

Jazakallahu Khair Shaikh Yasir, these library chats are very beneficial. They broadens our mind and remove any hatred for other groups. Please continue

Library Chat #13: On the Origins of the Ṣifāt Controversy | Shaykh Dr. Yasir Qadhi • Development of Early Islamic Theology • The doctrine of Jaham ibn Safwan • Jaham ibn Safwan died 128 Hijra. • Began discussion about the attributes of Allah, his teacher Ja’ad who died a decade before him these 2 people started the discussion and problematizing the attributes mentioned in the Quran. • It is alleged by his opponents that Ja’ad remarked (Enemies usually rephrase these statements and exaggerate it) “Allah did not love Abraham as a Khaleel, and Allah did not talk to Moosa (a.s).” “Quran is created”. “Allah can’t be described with any description; He is not anything.” • Ja’ad and Jaham both were executed. Where did this controversy come from? Where are these notions coming from? What it means for us? • It is emanating from Syriac Christianity. • The number 1 source of controversy is this! • It didn’t exist in the companions and the early Tabiyoon. • How do we understand the 2 hands of Allah how did Allah raise over the earth? Allah has risen over the throne. • The Jahmiya, the scholars of Kalam, the Mautaziliites. • Is the Quran created or not, it was the issue up to 800 to 900 years? • Athari School: Refutes Kala’am. • Sunni Kalam: Mathuri, Ashari. • Ibadi,7er & 12ever Shia are mautazli in terms of Sifat, Qadar, creation of Quran. • Ibn Taymiyah refuted the Kalam Arguments. • Allah never challenges you to think about the Sifat. Ja’ad and Jaham. • Ja’ad ibn Dirham was a learned man, and he was hired by Umayyad who taught the last Umayyad Caliph Marwān. • Jaham and Ja’ad are representing ideas that r foreign from Eastern Orthodox Christianity (Russian Church, Greek Church). It was based in Constantinople. There icons and figures and books are different with the western orthodox. • Muslims interacted during the time of conquest with eastern time of Christianity. • Muslim conquered Syria that was eastern orthodox Christian, and at the time debates were occurring between the nature of Jesus (a.s) and the relation of Jesus with father, they were alien to early Islam, and they made their way into Islam. • It is a Christian debate. • Judaism: It never had any major division on the attributes of god, pre-Christianity. They differed in Law, in Qadar but not about attributes of God. Those who were raised in Muslim lands started this controversy in Judaism to. • Mūsā bin Maymūn (موسى بن ميمون), the greatest Jewish thinker, they called him the Great Rabi. He studied in a Madrassah; he memorized the Quran. • They (Jewish) took these things from the Muslims and found these debates. • Type of Christianity that was taught and preached in Damascus during the times of Jaham and Ja’ad is known through the person John of Damascus. • يوحنا الدمشقي‎ Yūḥannā ad-Dimashqī,dies 675 CE, a generation before Jaham but of the generation of Ja’ad, we don’t know the but interaction but they were in the same city and it would be for sure that they would have met. • YQ Theory, “Ja’ad took much of his ideas from the John of Damascus, later he modified if he even didn’t study with him, the ideas of Yūḥannā ad-Dimashqī were predominant at that time. If not a direct relation the ideas are present and the time frame impacted the thought. • Yūḥannā ad-Dimashqī father was a minister for Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan ibn al-Hakam, his grand-father was a key player in negotiating the surrender of Damascus to Khalid bin Waleed. Yūḥannā ad-Dimashqī John of Damascus represents scholarly Christianity, he was the first person who wrote a refutation on Islam from a Christian. Prophet(pbuh) studied with an Arian monk, multiple marriage issues. • Yūḥannā ad-Dimashqī John of Damascus studied from a school of Christianity who had a number of key players in it (Philo of Alexandria, died 50 CE), he was the first Christian to synthesize teaching of Pluto with Christianity, this introduced Kalam in Islam. • Philo took from the teachings of Plato, because they were viewed as people who shouldn’t be studied, Plato had the theory of ideas, these theories of forms are thoughts of God. Philo says these theories of forms are thoughts of God. He questioned anthropomorphic language of the bible, he said its metaphorical not literally and its blasphemy to affirm them literally, just like Ja’ad did it with the Quran. God cannot exist in any space, He does not any direction and space, does not have any change and He is without motion. Philo took it from Plato. Philo is Neo Platonic Church Father (trying to rethink through the ideas of Plato.) • Plato, God is the first caused and unmoved mover so no motion within God. He causes the first motion. An entity must have moved the dominos the entity who moved it cannot move because it would be another domino Khud sun laina mai pghl he. I don’t know but why I m in love with the topic. ajeeb scene hai LOL! • Philo Christianizes it “God is (u don’t know god), the only way to describe God is what he is not, you describe by negation not by affirmation, via negativa. He is obsessed with the Logos, is the Logos God or not? He concludes that Logos is an intermediate entity between man and God. Later theologians had a discussion whether it is created or not??in Arabic it is translated as Kala’am. • Pseudo-Dionysius is the most influential Christian figure before John of Damascus, he is called pseudo bcz he pretended to be Dionysius who was one of the first controverts to Christianity and converted at the hands of Paul, so he started writing books presenting them as written by Dionysius 500 years ago and people gobbled it up, regardless his thought became famous and people believed that Dionysius was writing it, but it was coming from Pseudo-Dionysius. • John of Damascus was sent to Damascus to study to. • The problem of Sifat was introduced to them via the controversies in the eastern strand of Christianity. The idea of John of Damascus is coming from various thinkers. What Did John Of Damascus Teach • There was no Mautaziliites at that time. • Ja’ad was a young man when john was alive, Ja’ad started preaching after John of Damascus death. • Kalam is coming from John of Damascus. • YQ THEORY “The term Kalam comes from Logos, it was called Kalam due to the nature of the Logos.” • John of Damascus preached i. Kalam Cosmological Argument for the existence of God. (the cause and effect thing, the world has a beginning and it has a God). It was then developed by Mautaziliites. Ibn Taymiyah argues against it. ii. Going back to Philo that God can only be described by negation (Via negativa). God is not ignorant etc. This is exactly the terminology of Jaham and Ja’ad. Huge controversy on why he was executed. (Either political or religious reasons, depends on whom you are more sympathetic to.) There were large weirdos and a handful of them were executed only. Did the Governor use his theology of excuse? GOD DID NOT TALK TO MOSA, HE DID NOT LOVED ABRAHAM. iii. God is an unsubscribed being (Don’t occupy space and direction, negation of where) iv. God cannot be a compounded entity (is not composed of parts, hands etc) v. God doesn’t posses any change. • They are not concerned with the origins they are concerned that it is the TRUTH, within the Muslim circles. • YQ GEMS “This entire controversy is exaggerated. DID these debates had any importance in our life. Did it make closer to Allah?” • Sympathetic to Atharism, it is not coming from our faith. Atharism is a spectrum of opinions, pre ibn Taymiyah there were a spectrum of opinions. • We would have been better off if these debates didn’t occur. The average Muslim doesn’t concern about these things when it comes to the Sifat. Are the Mutazilites are very very bad??They were pious people, and their theology was wrong, but it didn’t make them go and do crazy things. • When Mautazli said “Allah can’t be described as Seeing, it seems blasphemous but at the end of the day they made Duwa to Allah and they knew He responds it is about the terms.” • Athari creed is the most sensible and it predates the Ashari creed by a century. • Ashari accepted some notions and rejected some.

My simple thanks and wish Alle the best to you and your family .Shykh Yasir Qadhi for you have opened my eyes and ears to see and hear the truth and became a part of ahllesunne.

Growing up in the Western capital of McCarthiest Jarh wa Ta'deel, and witnessing the painful fragmentation of our people across the Athari and Ashari spectrum, this lecture is utterly refreshing. I still recall the ignorantly applied statements like 'This ummah will not unite on anything but good'. The craziest thing is that in Islam my Muslim father may unite in marriage with a non-Muslim, Christian woman who clearly commits shirk (the greatest sin) and they may live together under the same roof and raise a family in love and harmony, but they are not allowed to unite with an Ashari or Athari or pray in the masaajid of those who worship Allah alone and sacrifice in His Name alone and face the same Qibla in prayer....? Mind boggling!

Salaam Shaykh, I greatly appreciate your series of "Library Chats," and in particular your effort in historicising ideas in Islam that so many take for granted. Your lectures have that halaqa feel that I appreciate greatly. Thank you so much, and I look forward to more "Library Chats."

Very interesting and academic food for thought, thanks a lot, jazzak Allah.

this was really interesting, Jazak Allahu Khayran

Great talk. Looking forward to further explanations of athari ashari and maturidi creeds

استفدت من هذه المحاضرة كثيرا، كما أرجو منكم المزيد. نفع الله بكم الإسلام والمسلمين.

Thank you and please continue doing these library talks. They are informative and also encourages us to think for ourselves while being guided as to what is right and wrong so we do not go astray. May Allah swt protect you, guide you & keep you on the straight path so you can continue teaching us, Ameen.

Assalamu alaikum! I almost never comment but I wanted to say I found this very beneficial and appreciated it. The insight about Eastern Christian thought influencing aqeeda debates was VERY much appreciated. A lot of teachers told me the Sahaba never argued about this stuff but I never figured out if that meant they had an unspoken consensus on it or if it was just inconsequential.

I thoroughly enjoyed this lecture. These topics are very important to the students of knowledge, especially when it comes to dealing with the most aggressive on RU-vid, of those amongst our Ummah. Please continue with these lectures, particularly on topics of aqeedah and the early development of the madhaahib. JazakAllah khair

I personally found the topic very interesting. I like reading about these sorts of topic and today’s library talk puts things in perspective for me. I very grateful to you ya shaikh May Allah SWT reward you for all your teachings

Yasir FANTASTIC. Ma sha Allah! Keep going! Push yourself further far beyond the horizons of this knowledge, then keep going. Until people say, you’re lost. He’s gone. He’s never coming back. Then leave behind a map no one has ever seen before! Bidhnillah

Great job Sheikh may Allah reward you better Ameen

Shaykh, please continue with these library chats on the topic of theology and its development. All of us who are your regular viewers really enjoy the knowledge you put out in these chats. And also maybe someday do a library chat explaining your views about the ahruf in which the Qur'an was revealed.

Excellent lecture 👍

what do I write here except for admiration for Yasir Qadhi. Whenever I learn about any controversy in Islam I search it with his name and most of time I get a pleasant video explaining everything clearly! JazakaAllahu Khairan, Sheikh!

Great talk. More stuff like this. One of the arguments that keeps popping up in my studies is the notion that, in order for your act of worship to be accepted, you need to recognize who you are worshiping. They bring the the problem of what if what you have in your mind of who God is, doesn't match the actual reality of God. What if the God in your mind resembles the God of another faith. So even for the average Muslim believer, the study of who God is is a must.

Great talk ma sha Allah!

Very interesting lecture on a topic I've always wondered why people make it such a big deal, especially considering the companions never discussed or fought about these issues. I love the historical roots that you bring up here - and I really LOVE when you go into the human stories of the history. I think that helps me remember and internalize the issue

Jazakallah khair Sheikh May Allah blessed you Ameen Very informative

Wonderful talk, your words are medicine for our fractured hearts. Sincerity is an endless fountain. May Allah open the doors of sincerity to the Ummah, and perish the whispers of shaitan and arrogance from our minds Ameen.

Love the library chat

Sheikh this is superb and God bless you for this amazing insight!! I am an Islamic studies academic myself and I ask you to keep up the good work and do not be affected by the blames of the blamers!!

Salam Sheikh Yasir. I really enjoy these library chats as they provide an academic insight to many issues I won't ever have access to normally. I have no islamic seminary experience or degree. But your methodology on most issues is very appealing. جَزَاكَ ٱللَّٰهُ خَيْرًا‎

Droppin' bars in the intro, MC Yasir!

we not only like it but crave for these stuffs😅.Keep doing my beloved shaykh