Linear Amps are DEAD, Long Live Class D! 

Great idea, Eh?🤣

Ahahhahaah

70s-80s Bass player also. Sounds like an SVT. I have (2) Crown A/B pro amps and an 8-10 SWR Workingman with 2-18 PA bass cabs as a stage rig. Bi-amped setup. Have looked at all the newer class D heads and am amazed at the size/weight. Many jobs today would not allow the old-school Bass Wall. Some are in-ear only. However, my Crown A/B still packs 450W @ 4 ohms with .5% THD. I cannot find a class D amp for a home stereo that comes close without DOUBLE+ the THD numbers. My audiophile RU-vid adversaries are all about Op amp rolling and external linear power supply upgrades just to boost the performance of $150 Class D 2-channel amps. Extra items bring the price up to the $500 range. My pro gear is from the 80s and 90s and STILL performs without missing a beat. Not ready to give up my muscle car just yet. And I mean my Camaro. LOL!

That really is the big advantage of a good class D design - besides size, weight, and efficiency. They sound so neutral and clean, it can seem "too clean" and "dry" to some people whose ears are used to higher distortion of older class A and AB designs. And you can easily get those characteristics to the exact point you prefer by using different preamp stages in front of the class D power stage. It's really the most versatile design currently possible. Any desired sound characteristic can be done relatively cheap and easy.

we've had this (ultra high quality class D and class T) for 10+ years but we welcome you to the club. it can also be had for 1/10 the price of the amp he shows here.

Also check out AudioScienceReview, they have measurements/reviews of lots of them. The size and (low) price of some is amazing. Unless you want a piece of art to look at, there is now no need for large boxes/high prices.

@@Artcore103 👍

I have a pair of those beauties. Youre exactly right...they are phenomenal.

There is one class D power amp called the Starkesound and it's supposed to sound a bit like tubes.

@@ajzepp8976 They are excellent amplifiers and very powerful!

@@samitch61 A buddy if mine is a high end audio dealer, and initially I had bought a pair of Gold Note monoblocks. My Magnepans ate them alive, which surprised me. I sent them back, and he happened to mention he had a demo pair of 600m monos for a bit more. Hooked them up, and wow...beautiful pairing with the Maggies. Like you said, plenty of power, and really brought them to life. Hope to have them for years to come, bc i surely cant afford to replace them lol

Play the birthday massacre, their latest released song... I'd almost 💯 guarantee it will distort. Crazy thing it won't distort on class a/b.

Yep that's SOTA amp for sure

i want one. i have an LA4 already 😛

Auditioned an M33 a few weeks ago. It's almost eerie how good that thing sounds (at least in that room with that content - local high end hifi old school dinosaur style shop)

I auditioned the Nad m33 against the lyngdorf tdai 3400 against my old Yamaha as3000. The Nad was the superior amp. I ultimately chose the lyngdorf only because I preferred roomperfect to Dirac.

The Coda Audio line array I got for my new venue has 7 4-channel amps at 3500 watts per channel. I can't even imagine how large and heavy the amplifier stack would be to put out the same power with class AB.

@@Roof_Pizza Exactly, And? Sound Reinforcement & Studio Monitoring is different from Home Stereo. I've been present at all three. From live concerts to in studio monitoring / recording process. I use to hangout in studios in NYC with my musician friends. What I find surprising still, is most musicians don't necessarily own High-End gear? Although, nowadays studio & home gear are becoming a blur. "Focal" makes some really Great Active(D amplification) & passive speakers.. that are comfortable in either environments. Focal is not the only ones either. JBL has of recent years, attempting to recapture its glory with their very nice Blue baffle monitors. I don't think JBL has dabbled into "Active" yet? Studio playback is closer to Home listening. Thanks to the use of XLR options. I go back to when JBL & Altec Lansing (which are cousins, if not brothers so to speak) ruled studio monitor scene. That was the choice of playback we wanted at home. Mostly all our 70s artist were mastered using them! Sound Reinforcement is a totally different animal. Most of the robust electronics have noisy built in fans for cooling & reliability purposes.

@@alex_stanley Probably a ton? LOL But, as we have learned power isn't the whole story. Early car amps made that clear with their actual power rating & distortion claims checked.

@@Roof_Pizza @roof pizza And you now have some more info to work with? Read between the lines.

@@jamiesmith6838 Thankfully the latest class D can give high power with very low distortion.

So they know what they are doing. I would call pass labs musical sounding and relatively neutral.

Look for threads on ASR as well as videos here with Dylan of Buckeye amps. I think you'll be impressed with his passion for quality. He seems to be a master of class D amps even though his PhD is in Immunology.

I will build a Nilai soon!😊

I'm in a similar situation. However, I regret buying the cheapest Tripath amp with only 10W of power. It sounds pristine however! Desktop amps are definitely a trap. All amps should have at least 25W on tap. It doesn't take more space.

I agree. I now that amp that measures really well can still sound lifeless, non engaging, sharp etc. It has to pass listening tests as well. With that said, high end class D designs do sound good.

Yeah. I went with a active three way with hypex power and I'm a happy camper.

Been using a hypex ncore nc502mp to power my klipsch forte i after doing much research on measurements.

Incredible indeed!

Agree

You assume a product that measures great will somehow sound bad. But somehow the poor measuring product will sound better. Got it.

@@Audioholics You have elitist opinions about the subjectivity of audio preferences. Some people think class D lacks presence and is not enjoyable to listen to, yet you keep arguing specs like that is all that matters. It's 2022 and for some reason people are buying tube amps which are cumbersome and not as clean!?!?

@@kensmechanicalaffair it's 2022 and people still buy McDonald's. Enjoy

Could be a cognitive bias against new tech or maybe the Class D you're buying isn't very good.

@@Audioholics Very good thoughts! I've been selling hifi since 1980. Placebo and cognative bias doesn't enter in any more. I have a total of 5 different systems at my home, and friends with their own. I bought ALL of the newest and best digital amps. Not one to try. They are AMAZING in every way!!!! Except to anyone who listens to a LOT of live music as I do. See, I'm a recording engineer with my own studio. So I'm pretty set up to evaluate equipment. I even sold all of the ORIGINAL Classe equipment in my own hifi stores. I am SO blessed to have the experience I do, and that I chose this field for a profession. But the experience has taught me what real live music sounds like intimately .... The very best digital amps just don’t bring the emotional joy of live music, like quality AB amps do. Pick up a used BEL MK1001 Class AB amp for about $750 used. NO DIGITAL AMP made can convey music playback even close to as well. BUT I am on the conatant search for a digital amp that DOES actually sound like music with soul! When it does arrive, I am all in happily! I've tried Purifi, Gan, Hypex, Ice ... it sounds GREAT!!! But not realistic to live music ..... but how would I know? I only have the ability to record and play my own instruments, my own voice, on my own mics and equipment, in ky own recording studio and play that back. If an audio component doesn't play it back FAITHFULLY .... it is not up to my reference recordings standard. I currently own 31 different amplifiers, dating back to the 60s. I personally support class D completely!!! But the chase for lowest noise floor and best SNR has left the sound quality magic behind. Low noise floor and high SNR doesn't equal good sound quality! It just means you can hear the less of the inferior sound quality. Lastly ... all good OLDER hifi salesmen know Pass waa 90% reputation and 10% accuracy! If you would like to contact me ever, I'd happily share a list of sub $2,000 class AB amplifiers which sound considerably better than any class D amp at any price. It's not a matter of comparing noise floors. It's a matter of what gets your foot stomping and your head bobbing. Think this isn't true? It's how I made my living in Hi-Fi as the number one salesman everywhere I went for 40 years nearly. People want good sound in the end. They spend countless hundreds of thousands trying to find it while looking for the new and greatest. Now people are going back to CDs in favor of streaming. New is not always better. This is my message.

You’re no musician I can tell you that..

@@drummerdoingstuff5020 And you are no clairvoyant, lol. Musician since 1980. Now drum away off beat, 😆.

@@cdgee6399 😂 sure

True indeed. Brand preference and style preference

Hmmm. I have an M28 on Polk Legend series. I want to test a good A/B up against it. Will provide feedback on your comment. Any particular tracks you want me to use to test?

@@Wozzaatwozza I use Momo (Mindi Abair) and for vocals I will always love you (WHitney Houston) and also Subba Laksmi song from Devudu Chesina Manushulu

@@MrUttammaru thanks. I’ve been using SACDs Brothers in Arms, Runours, Hotel California, and Love Box. I compare these to regular CD versions and Apple TV. Also Pink Floyd Division Bell Blu Ray. One track I really love for testing music is Faithless ‘The Garden’ from Sunday 8PM CD

@@MrUttammaru just listened to I will always love you. Haven’t heard it for a few years. I used Tidal playback at 88.2k. I heard noise on her mic in the quiet section at the beginning, the sax is clean. Momo is awesome, 🙏 the bass rocks, so many instruments, I love the percussion. Nice guitar and bass guitar. Thx. It’s a very good recording.

@@Wozzaatwozza thanks i also use Hotel California but the live version I don't have in floc or wav

The M23 employs Eigentakt class-D amplifier modules manufactured by NAD under license from Denmark’s Purifi Audio, not Hypex.😉

Yes the Pass Labs FFT is really nasty even with the higher order spectra. Still, it sounded much better than it measured.

Try the Aiyima a07. Replace the removable Op Amp with a Sparkos Lab dual discrete Op Amp.

they've existed for 10-20 years sir. just not mainstream. you can get END GAME level class d/t amplifiers at virtually any output power you need for less than 500 bucks. IF you are a diy-er. connexelectronic, buy the modules or a board, buy an smps, it's as simple as hooking up some wires. put it in a box if you care to. if your needs are for only 100 or 200 watts and 2 channels, then literally less than 300 bucks can get you end game level sound, i'm talking it does not get meaningfully better than this sound. forget the overpriced brands, wake up to diy and chi-fi. ultra quality is ultra affordable now, if you are merely careful to discern where to look and what to get. garbage chi-fi also exists... right next to end-game stuff. luckily these days we have people that do the legwork with measuring and reviewing nearly everything in existence so it's not that hard. end-game dacs for 100-200 bucks all day baby. the ONLY part of the chain that technology hasn't made super cheap for end-game quality is speakers... because their raw materials still simply cost money even if you build it yourself.

Already has, long time ago. Hypex sells cheap modules of many ratings that outperform everything else on the market, regardless of price

@@yurihalberstadt618 : Thanks for that information.👍👍

@@scottypalmer2158 Oh and i forgot to mention: the measurement graphs on their site are so incredible you'd think they're simulatiions. Their not. Those are the actual measurement graphs. BP is seriously serious about not spreading any BS, even more so than Gene.

Very sad indeed. Tommy was a good guy.

So you like vintage for nostalgia, not for performance, gotcha

A 6.6L engine with 180 Horsepower. My wife’s small SUV has 185.

@@povertime6381 Exactly my point! I never said it was a vehicle that was capable of ultimate performance. Many modern vehicles are better engineered, more reliable, and much safer. You enjoyed them for their looks and sense of mystique. How collectible will the SUV be when it has seen 40 plus years? In short, the experience of driving a Trans-Am is for fun, not utility. That being said, GM did not want to be seen as continuing to produce gas guzzlers. When these were being built it was the start of the fuel crisis. So to keep the government off their backs, they and other manufactures often underrated the HP their engines could actually produce.

Have tested Crown XLS 1502 on KEF R11, Arendal 1723 Tower, Sonus Faber Nova V and sounds wonderful on all. The KEF and Arendals previously powered by Denon 8805HA and the Sonus Faber powered by the excellent ATI NCore. Couldn't hear ANY degradation in sound quality...in fact changing out the denon for the much more powerful Crown brought new life into the KEF and Arendals. There impact on the Arendal was much bigger due to those towers being VERY power hungry and rated @ 400watts 4OHM. Am I saying the Crown are the last word in quality....absolutely NOT. But you will really struggle to find better value in the high power segment. Purifi is the aim but just cannot make myself spend the money to get equivalent. Another thought is to sell my denon 8805HA and buy the new denon 3800 which apparently will support Audyessy & Dirac and 4 independent subs and use it as a processor with crowns powering bed layer. Interestings times ahead for value driven people.

@@pumpituphomeboy Excellent! Agree 100%. The newer Crowns also incorporate cool features, really amazing for their price. Gain controls, integrated crossover, active cooling and LEDs indicating over temp and clipping. Seeing the clipping or temp LEDs activate would take some doing on a home audio system. Likely the house would suffer structural damage first 😆 Another good 2 channel bang for the buck class D amp to look at is Parasound's ZoneMaster 2350. Match it to their P6 Preamp for a nice system for a fraction of the cost of the comparable PS Audio setup.

I don't disagree the hypex stuff is good, but 1%? i only look to see how high the power goes before it hits the corner and starts a steep climb, and consider it's power to be whatever it puts out at 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less distortion than that. you could argue .1% i'll accept that. plenty of amps out there with good power at .01% (as he showed here). 1% is kind of high. my ta-3020 based amp is doing over 100w at like .02%.

yours is the kind of input this conversation needs

Class A is hard to beat when it comes to wasting energy. Fully agree.

@@Audioholics LoL that’s why A/B is what I prefer for music and my electric bill. Class D for Home theater I can go for that.

I have that same Class T amp with the TA2024 chip but under the Wondom Sure brand. It sounds wonderful with my full range transmission line bookshelf speakers. But 10W of power ain't enough for orchestral music. I could have spent a little more cash and go for something like a Sabaj A10A with more beans.

I've got a TA2021s amp that sounds pretty good on my desktop. Not enough power to drive the speakers to full, but they never need to get that far anyway in my use.

@@RennieAsh I think they need to make Class T Tripath amps more readily available. I actually tried my TA2021 on my Magnepan 1.6’s. They played quietly for sure. However they did sound great on some old B&W 302 Prisms and Polk Audio Monitor 5B with Silver series tweeters. Lost my amp in a divorce 😢

I want to know the same thing

I would like to see that too.

I use the shd studio with hypex in a digital streaming system and it's really nice.

@@Phloored my friend does too. On Polk L600 and REL subs.

SHD straight into Pure Class A Triode monoblocks for me partnered with standmount speakers with a very flat impedance curve. Amps inefficient? yes but it’s a fast, natural, non-fatiguing sound and ok by today’s standard 0.13% THD at 1W may be considered high but it’s mainly second harmonic the most benign and musical harmonic. Oh and multi sub is also employed to ensure the bass remains tight. Now I’m not saying there aren’t better sounding systems out there but I’ve not heard one yet at any price :-)

Love the mini dsp unit.

"bass overhang" sounds like distortion to me - it sounds like the "design" is a flaw... you want the woofer to not follow the output signal but smooth or round it out? i think you're wrong. better control over the woofers is better. if this results in somewhat less full sounding bass / less spl at certain frequencies, EQ it back in. the amp should ideally be in perfect 1:1 control of the speaker position at all times in theory. if i'm missing something do explain i'm open to it.

@philippefenain4405 Our ears can't, but why not build the best that's possible if it doesn't make other compromises?

shocking amount of truth to this. i have a friend whos a bit of an audiophile that has this shocking turntable. its bright with a very audible noise floor and the timing seems off but he just reads it as 'bloom' if there is such a thing.

Yeah there may be some sweetspot, where some distortion gives the signal a stronger sense of presence, while any more just smears it into chaos.

@@SwirlingDragonMist a sweetspot some may call it, I call that MY fidelity instead high fidelity.

Yes, like real instruments LOL

@@johto Your point is? And nope, thats not how it works. A system without noise and distortion will playback an instrument accurately, including the noise and distortion from the instrument itself as you stated. You dont want to add noise and distortion on noise and distortion because thats just dumb.

Some do, how many well built class D amps have you listened too, or are you comparing them all to the $100 - $300 dollar class D amps from China that are sold on Amazon?

@@The_Story_Channel I have owned 2 different NAD class D amps, the M22 Mk 2 with the Hypex module and the C298 with the Purifi module. The cheaper 298 sounded better, but was still not really to my taste, much prefer class A or AB. But hey class D has come a long way and most likely will eventually eclipse conventional topologies, but certain sonic preferences may always have some preferring class A or AB.

This is your answer; ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Eahh4Czp-ko.html ... :)

Possibly, yes.