Linus Re-Evaluates his Investment 

The fairphone already exists.

I don't even think there is a sector for repairable laptops. It is 2024 and the lifetime of laptop this and last year are likely to be 10 years plus making repairable laptops moot unless you are careless and break them. I have a three and a half year old MacBook Pro and an 8-year MacBook Pro. Both are going great. I think repairable laptops are niche and a lifestyle choice by a tiny minority. But I'm glad there is something for you even though it is rather expensive for what you're getting.

@@jimby812 just doesn’t feel refined as a product. That’s just my opinion tho,

@@andyH_EnglandTheres also the aspect of upgradeability meaning being able to modify the components over time to adjust to greater demands either because of the tech generally (e.g. video games, so RayTracing, DLSS etc.) or simply because you aren't utilizing your laptop for the same type of work anymore. Ignoring this is a pretty big oversight.

I don't exactly care about repairability but upgradability. My electronic doesn't break that much. But also for most people if the laptop is broken, they won't order new parts but bring it to the repair shop anyway.

Remember, that's piracy!

adblock is piracy - linus

You can't really pirate your own IP, can you :p

Linus Thievery Group

​@@user-te7rf8ik7zskipping ads is not the same as blocking them outright. You'd still get money from skipped ads 💀

and for that Clips channel of Clips channel, we would need a Shorts Channel

Haha for sure

Well to be fair this Wan show stream is think was like 5 hours long lmao

I think Linus himself is all the shorts content we need /s

@@MattA-fi5qe i was excited when Linus made a video about him retiring but he's still making lots of videos

I have a plugin for 2.6x

​@@FBI_MasterI have revanced for up to 10x with no ads and sponsor block 😂😂

@@FBI_Masteris there something special about 2.6x or is it just the fastest that you can generally understand?

zoomers

May I ask, what do you do with the time you don’t have to spend when you watch videos at 2x?

i just want to know why it was such a fast and hard no

@@thatitman9554 i know at least of the 5000$ upgrade video that he is a magnet for insuring himself. it was actually hilarious in that video

@@thatitman9554 in the few videos he was featured he managed to injure himself a few times. i mean it just can be a fluke but that hard no from linus kinda speaks volumes and linus likes his insurance rates not raised 😁

​@@Slayer666thwhat video was that?

@@thatitman9554 specifically where the dude slipped and fell down some stairs in a upgrade video.

It would be fun to see a mash-up of this.

The first thing came to mind when Linus was swearing the f out of nvidia was Linus middle finger and saying "f you nvidiax lmao

Yeah, every Linus must say " fuck nvidia"

could have just said "ltt linus quoting linux linus"

They mention that at 25:09, but thank you for sharing the actual excerpt! Keep improving, Framework.

"Keyboard deflection - We’ve seen largely positive feedback on the input deck feel..." That market spin BS tho. Not winning any hearts like that.

@@Varadiio I mean, if it's true it's true. As long as they actually address the issue some people experience then it's fine to mention that others have no issue.

looool

Especially to the tune of “fuck you NVIDIA” - following in the footsteps of the great😂

@@jacobfaseler5311 it seems like it's a default mode for all Linuses

@@jacobfaseler5311 It was interesting. But the tune seemed to imply that there is only 1 GPU maker and they are the only one that matters. I was waiting for him to say that they would be working with AMD for something and he basically ignored that they even exist. Am I the only one that wonders why AMD wasn't mentioned as an option for working with to make a modular GPU like that or roasted just as hard for not allowing it like Nvidia? What about Intel?

@@joee7452 people tend to focus on the negatives - hopefully omission of discussion on the others implies they’re still viable futures.

@@joee7452 its because Nvidia is by far the larger GPU partner in desktop/laptop, and a lot of people will ignore anything that doesn't have the Nvidia stamp. They have the mindshare, and as shown here, aren't afraid to abuse it. Even in GPU enthusiast circles, where people know more and realise modern AMD is viable and has reasonable drivers, many still go with Nvidia because of DLSS or other reasons. So in a sense it DOES matter if Nvidia won't do it, because AMD just doesn't carry the weight that Nvidia does.

Based on them saying their unit ran hot and loud, it sounds like a bad unit. Which isn't something to ignore, in fact quite the opposite, but I think understanding that it was a bad unit is important context. Hopefully these bad units aren't that common.

@@CorneliusCornbread Frameworks support is pretty chill if you provide the right evidence. Also hope not too many ppl overload their support. if its a fault they can fix with a new part or boardswap. that be great. I got my fan replaced (FW13, 12th gen) for free (cause it was making noises and looked clean). a video before and after "cleaning" proved it for them. But they get alott of support tickets from ppl breaking their own stuff sadly

I wish more outlets did like some PC reviewers do which is to contact the company, see if they know about the issue. Sometimes you just get a lemon and that shouldn't affect the review

​@kendokaaa I can confirm The Verge had a lemon. My finalized unit is perfectly fine. No BSODs or kernel panics on it, and the keyboard flex by the L key isn't more than say an HP Omen.

@@CorneliusCornbread Well, if anything its to be expected that they get bad units. Framework themselves said that the review units were chosen because most of them were deemed as not acceptable to send to consumers. And instead decided to send them to reviewers.

The new channel "LMG Clips of Clips" will launch soon!

I appreciate clipping by topic. 👍

100% Just a few days ago Linus was defending the switching scheme somewhere, but now he visibly suffers from it himself. Karma is all I’ll say. They gotta fix it.

@@andreirachko If you can find it please let me know. I’m honestly curious to what the reason is for switch ordering every chart. The only people it helps is for people to take screenshots and post to other websites but I thought that’s what Labs was for. For the format of video it makes no sense in my opinion

@@Melchirobin not really applicable to this specific graph, but for cases where there's five+ devices being compared, or if there are close scorers, it does sorta help establish relative ranking

agree here.

In my opinion, it should be ordered based on performance when it's more products (like a GPU review), but the places should stay the same when it's two or three products being compared. That, or make it obvious which product you're talking about by using a different colour, like instead of everything being magenta, they could give the framework numbers a different colour like turquoise. (also, inverted colours are better for colourblind people)

got'em!

ltt audience try to have any other joke than the verge pc build challenge (impossible mode)

​@carlwheezer1544 In this context, it made perfect sense lmao. Linus was the only tech creator that didn't shit all over them publicly for it, and even got stephan on show to rebuild the whole system, and they both explained where the bad points were. Linus is a G for that. Didn't shit over them, and instead gave constructive feedback, while teaching him how to build one for real.

@@angelaizen2231 twas a joke

@iso_2013 I was replying to the guy above me, not you, dw.

As far as i remember, it was not really standardized (or rather enfoced strictly), and whats worse, Dell/Alienware was one of "those guys" which tried HARD to deviate in shape/placement of components as much as possible. Clevo/MSI/Lenovo versions of same cards were not compatible with Alienware bodies and vice versa. Also - it was highly adivised to buy proper, complementary to chosen GPU , heatsink. I BET MY ASS, if your laptop originally came with 480m it was not "meant" to be upgraded further than 6xx/7xx/8xx (which were basically same cards in laptops, but reheated burgers...). 9xx and 10xx gen of cards were different in some major ways which meant that no eng. could have forseen than 4-5 years into the future. As some useless info - i believe anything higher than 1060 needed some externar clock signal or something, which rendered old MXM laptops unable to run them. In the end - fact that (not without issues) you actually could do it... was unbelievable in laptop market. Hence my opinion is MXM was great, albeit not used "correctly" - not standardized enough, no major official manufacturers support for swaps. Kits for upgrades were wery rare to be distributed in any major and official way (not that there were none of 'em to be clear)

@@DrBunhead95 it was nvidia dropping support for LVDS display output(requiring eDP or atleast optimus to have the igpu handle the video output) in the 1060+ cards and legacy bios support in the 9xxM cards that crippled compatibility with older laptops especially the former. As for physical compatibility goes I think AW/clevo/msi had at one point shared a 'standard' type B layout until the maxwell generation sharing the GPU/Vram/Screw hole Placement and PCB Sizing. Signaling, power and physical constraints seems to limit that "standardized" type B to 1080/2060/3060 cards that led its use being discontinued in favor of custom solutions. I dont think the framework gpu solution on its own would gain traction in a similar scale as the "Standardized MXM 3.0 Type B" as used by Clevo/AW/MSI and Industrial/Medical applications(which refuses to allow the format to die and seems to have created Type B+ for the 2080/3080) as people are upgrading the laptops beyond what the manufacturers are willing to provide and support.Unless more manufacturers adopt the format and create upgrades for it this would end up like DGFF or Clevo/MSI's variation on the MXM format.

MXM standardizes the *slot but **_not_** the screw hole positions or the board size and shape* . that's the problem. every single MXM board has a chance to have completely different screw holes and board shape meaning it is impossible to transplant. pack it up thats all folks go home.

Yeah.

they might even forgot to update or even installing the any drivers even. It's the Verge, any sane user won't even look at them for technical knowledge

​@@MrWillypanda88but it's still important user info and it's good on the verge to update that they're getting a non-pre-production unit and might update their review. The bigger issue is how dumb it was that framework sent preproduction units.

@@MrWillypanda88 The verge is aimed at a casual audience without much tech knowledge. It makes sense for them to test things as they come out of the box as most current production laptops simply come ready to run since their target audience doesn't want to hunt for drivers on some OEM website. Manually installing drivers isn't really a thing anymore anyways, Windows does a decent job at doing that for the user. I doubt any casual user needed to install drivers since Win10, maybe on a Desktop for the GPU (even then, the default windows graphics drivers usually work okay. A bit outdated but it's not like you only get 600x800 anymore) but not on any known brand laptop. Framework is really at fault here for shipping a pre production unit, maybe even without including relevant information (like, we still update drivers to regularly to ship them on the device - get them from here [url])

why would you do that? the GPU turns off when it's not being used. You're not saving any room by doing it, and battery life difference is negligible. plus the GPU connection needs to be screwed in and you have to have the laptop turned off while you do this. it is an internal PCIe connector.

probably 8 lanes

@@akiesa559iirc it is

@@JessicaFEREM cooling and power delivery for ultra high performance - good luck cooling and powering something like a desktop 4090 in that module's form factor

​@@pmc_tbf cooling a 4090 is hard in nearly any formfactor

Yeah that's the price of a (relatively) low production, niche product. Hopefully it'll get cheaper as it becomes more popular.

if i ever needed a laptop, i'd buy a used one anyway. once the framework is a few years old, there'll probably be a coule of used 13s for sale.

If you don't mind older generation ones you can find cheap 11th gen units on their marketplace

@@552jacki3 No, it's not the price of a low production. It's the price of a business machine.

I actually don't think the laptop initially is too bad, but it's the upgrades. For what a new motherboard goes for you're better off just buying a new laptop every 4 years which is basically what the business model has been the past decade

I hope you’re not one of those people that mercilessly mocked him for that statement given your post…

Mocking apple and their statement about the antennas in the iphone 4. Let me rephrase to better match what Jobs said at that time: "Avoid LIFTING it that way! @@robertt9342

@@robertt9342 you mean apple? Anytime!

They should have made a mxm2 with a full redesign. It could have been fixed. Shitty oem bioses didn't help

It's what I'm having to deal with playing with a 2011 iMac. Those Terascale GPUs are ticking time bombs and if you wanna use OCLP to put newer versions of macOS on it, it's not compatible with the Metal API so you're missing out on acceleration in most applications. There's a pretty wide variety of MXM cards that could go in them, and a large thread of BIOSes and cards with methods used to make them work, but a good number of them require modifications either to resistors and solder jumpers on the card itself, or copper shims to increase the die height, or pieces that need to be cut off the heatsink to make room for coils and other tall components. But they ALL need custom bioses to function.

They make fans for Costco among other companies

@JamesJones-zt2yx: I wonder who their Biggest Fan is. 😂

I’ve seen them in airports sometimes lol

WAN show has stretched to an easy 3hrs now. so its still a clip of it.

@@bradhaines3142 that's a third of the whole stream, so it is ehh. But to be fair, they do only make it long when there's a need for it, as in when the context of the clip stretches that much. If anything, I prefer longer clips rather than out of context takes, since there's no room for misunderstanding that way

Thanks, editors. I don't want to watch 15 clips of one subject.

Imagine when you're watching it at x2

Yeah it kinda permanently removed them from being a trusted source for anything but a very non-tech savvy consumer POV.

Apparently, the other reviews corroborated their claims.

Yea nah it was the verge who did the worst PC build guide in historym

I had to rewind to make sure I'd actually heard Linus right.

@@slayerdwarfifyoh sorry, wrong timestamp. I fixed it now.

Without Nvidia graphics tech would be way behind where it is.

@@milandalosur1850 I don’t deny that. But after the exit of EVGA, death of MXM, no more wildly custom cards. I can’t help but feeling Nvidia hates fun.

Framework is a tiny company compared to the brands you describe, and as such their costs are higher (not to mention the intrinsic additional cost of making parts this easily replaceable). The high price tag makes sense for what it is. Don't buy outside what you can afford, but the ability to _actually, truly_ make this the last laptop you ever own is worth the premium in my opinion.

IMO it's still better than the "macbook of the conventional laptops"... at least Framework have a track record of making the upgrade to the current with the same specs and is part replaceable

@@PrograError I agree that it's the best option long term, but for right now it's not affordable for most people. But it's the same with a lot of recyclable/reusable stuff it needs to be made more affordable for them to make a real difference.

I think in this case it might be more about caring about repairability as a principle rather than economic motive. But yeah, how big is that group.

I'm waiting on my order and know I am paying a premium over a laptop of a similar spec I could have bought to get one that aligns with my values. Plus I am showing my support for the company and the concept. However I admit, I am lucky this is an option I am able to take.

The hinges are super tight on all new units to reduce the screen shake, its a concession they made to solve the hinge being a little wobbly but the build itself is strong so it's not actually a problem

I dont think the verge would highlight an issue like that and somehow not mention the world's stiffest hinge.

Mayb ur brain has low clock speeds...

skill diff

i cant understand complicated information even on 1x speed anyway.