It reminds me of the super league in football uefa enjoyed not having any competition so they created a giant media/outrage storm that the Europeans took hook line and sinker and now they get to go back to watching 11 ties every Saturday and the same 3-4 teams winning every year
Thank you for talking about this subject! I love it and I have been keeping track for awhile, I think these guys need to make as much as they can! Golf is hard!
Pat Mcafee explained this perfectly. Literally every sponsor on the pga tour has a percentage ownership from Saudi money. It’s ridiculous. The PGA tour only started increasing payouts when their top talent left
The PGA is pissed off because of the competition. But now they making it about human rights. When you go against the establishment then suddenly there's alot of issues. The more competition the better. And the golfers are happy to jump ship because it's more money in their pockets.
I keep hearing about competition but rather than some kind of free market scenario I'm more reminded of the situation back in the 80s when government subsidized steel companies dumped their product into the market at less than the production cost knowing that the existing companies couldn't compete.
16 usually holds 15-16k fans per day. Only a small part is “come and go” the open seats. Everything under a canopy you have to have a pass to get into and it’s expensive. The entire tournament hosts an absurd number of people, I believe around 3/4 million lol. It’s insane
This happened a while back in the sport I used to compete in. The organization here in the US was geared more towards a bigger payout to the athletes who finished better whereas other organizations from different countries would pay you an appearance fee just for showing up plus a healthy kick towards the guys who finished better. Typically after being on the circuit for a couple years guys would figure out where their average placings would be and instead made a living just from invitational events. Plus it kept you in the sport longer because injuries would be greatly lessened.
I worked at TPC Scottsdale for years as an assistant super and in 2018, and 19 we set the outdoors attendance record over 225k, there's way more than 5k people @ #16. It's easily 12,000, it's literally built like a small ball park there are decks and levels and stands around the green.
8:00 as someone who plays golf in my industry/company as a more junior employee, 100% getting more opportunities on the golf course with clients and management than any meeting.
Its a great way to test your possible client.. If you're willing to cheat in golf, you're willing to cheat in business. Its a great quick way to see how any person acts or operates in 3-4 hour time span
With the Netflix special that just came out from the Drive to Survive guys I really hope golf blows up in popularity like F1 did, it’s such a great sport and there’s so much drama and entertainment once you get into it. LIV golf is also adding a whole other layer, really entertaining stuff to watch.
Where was the outrage and criticism of Saudi money in golf, when the Saudi International started on the European Tour, the year following the Khashoggi murder. The PGA Tour has given players releases to that event, each year since 2019, including this year.
Where is Peng Shuai? China owns UFC! She was the tennis player that disappeared after grape allegations against high level CCP member. Should I stop watching UFC? Joe? Anyone?
Hard to take anybody seriously that uses terms like 'it's old white guy BS'. Even the fact that he defends Saudi money and slaves in China making phones. Andrew is a complete goof.
Having meetings on the golf course gives you a level of intimacy with your counter that few locations can. My dad always said that if you can't close a deal by the 12th hole, find a new job.
I'm an avid golfer, and have followed the sport since Tiger Woods' prime era... to say that I am not fond and appreciate of the PGA Tour would be dishonest. However, I've yet to get a sufficient answer from those who oppose and/or dislike the LIV Tour, to my question of "Why should the PGA Tour be permitted to maintain a monopoly on professional golf, and going so far as to use their significant influence to deter sponsorships, access to Official World Golf Rankings, as well as LIV Tour players access to non-PGA Tour affiliated and hosted events, and specifically the Major tournaments like The Masters, US Open, The Open, Etc. ??? Name another professional golf league that is not a partner league, direct affiliate, or a financial subsidiary of the PGA and/or PGA Tour OTHER than the LIV Tour? I'll wait...
The golf and business thing is big - you ALMOST have to play the game, if you want to make it in the finance relationship based business world. Getting 4-5 hours of someone’s time is invaluable… and you can learn A LOT about someone when you play a round of golf with them. In many ways.. it’s also just a good hang.
I wish this guy gave a better explanation when Joe asked what talent is going over there.. he said Phil Mickelson and he should have told Joe that some of the top ranked golfers in the world right now are going over there, and they’re doing it because they make almost double the money, play 1 less day than a PGA competition, and the payouts for every spot are a lot more than to a PGA payout for where you place.. the PGA has so much money and don’t wanna pay their golfers what they should get so they left to make more money and now the PGA is mad about it cause they feel like they’re entitled..
@@kylemorse346 PGA doesn't have as much money as the Saudis. Most corporations and orgs get by on the skin of their teeth from a profit margin perspective, more so than people realize (sure an exec might make a low-8-digit income, but if you took that and spread it around to all their employees it wouldn't be noticeable). They can't compete with a petrostate writing blank checks.
LIV Golf players are paid an undisclosed signing fee along with additional prize money depending on their rank in the tournaments. As per reports, the contract Phil Mickelson signed with LIV Golf is to be worth $200 million. Dustin Johnson reportedly agreed to a fee of $150 million and Bryson DeChambeau fetched $100 million.
The shotgun start format that LIV uses is actually pretty fun to watch and a nice change of pace. There's always something going on and you don't have to wait several hours for your favorite players to tee off. The events themselves actually look pretty laid back and fun to attend. I would check one out if it were hosted nearby. That being said, LIV is primarily comprised of younger players that haven't made it onto the PGA Tour yet and older pros pushing 40 that are past their prime like DJ and Brooks. DJ and Brooks are still certainly capable of winning a major, but far less likely than 10 years ago. Cam Smith is probably the only LIV player that's top 10 level and currently in his prime. I'd say ~90-95% of LIV players are comparable to Korn Ferry Tour players in quality which is still really good, but not quite top tier PGA Tour level. Phil is more of an ambassador now then a real threat on the golf course due to being 52 years old and being way past his prime. He'd have trouble placing in Korn Ferry Tour events now.
@@gregorypalmer4909 Only time it is bad is if someone who is a few shots back, designed to finish on the 2nd or 3rd hole and has an amazing day, competing for the title while the last group (leaders) finishes on 18, potentially out of the race. You seem to watch a lot of LIV to be so vehemently against it. Btw what I just described has not happened once, yet.
Bryson, Joaquin and Matthew Wolff are young guns in or close to their prime. Yes, lots of washed players and young no names, but there’s more than Cam.
I went to the same Chicago LIV event as Andrew and he’s spot on. It’s a cool atmosphere but everything seems forced and like they’re trying too hard to appeal to millennials. I’m a golf nerd so I prefer PGA tour events but I do see the benefits from the competition that the LIV tour has had on the winning purses for the PGA tour
The golf nerds will always be there, and they’re pretty small in number and it doesn’t grow decade over decade. At least LIV is trying to grow and appeal to new golf fans.
Given the changes the PGA Tour is made I don’t see how LIV is remotely sustainable… but it’s a win for us as golf fans (and for the mini tour qualifier golfers in particular) that the LIV forced so many changes from the PGA. Competition is good.
@@adamseidel9780 its not - it is a significant disruptor - to be honest - nearly all of the early defectors - were all complete pains in the ass - and the tour is happy to have them gone . That was up until Dustin Johnson, Cam Smith those are really the only meaningful losses - the Koepka , Dechambeau, Reed - and the like - if the truth were known - I think the tour would have been happy to pay for them to go
@@pjpredhomme7699 There is no way the PGA wanted to see a name like Bryson, who was driving big attention, leave. Same goes for Koepka, despite his prickliness. Reed... I'll give you that one, nobody was sad to see him gone.
World golf ranking points are the other key issue because those are the things that get you into the majors and weigh towards tradition (and the TPC) to a lesser extent. PGA has had an uncompetitive Monopoly and has kept the ceiling on player winnings. Imagine no one in the top 10 of golf has won more than 10 to 20 million for the most part over the last few years compare that to the contracts that they hand out in the NBA NFL Major League baseball etc
I love “what about ism” If a hedge fund was behind the LIV tour it would be a mass exodus and the only people upset would be the PGA Tour And lastly.... Augusta works independently from the PGA tour. This is why LIV players have been invited to The Masters this year.
I have noticed Kashoggi's entire career has been distilled down to 'Washington Post journalist' and those same people are okay with Julian Assange being an enemy of the state.
@@gregorypalmer4909 That's my point. They brought up a hedge fund and the guy acts like people would still be upset. The dude was wrong over and over again.
The commentary around the google search 13:40 is incorrect. Over 500,000 people attended the Waste Management Open in 2021. 20k were at the 16th at any given time.
I think learning to golf is less important in business world than it was in the past, but you want to be ready to accept an invitation to golf bc it does create a great opportunity to talk casually and build familiarity
Agree 100%. I'm sure some deals still get done on the course and golf is great way to get a client alone for 4 hours. However, most high producers don't have that kind of time to spend. Business moves 10x faster these days.
@@nightfighter7452 that may work for you. For me, I golf about 4 times a year, it's all paid for, and I figure if I don't go my competition will. Not to mention on a nice day it beats sitting inside.
what i find so funny being both an avid golfer and fisherman the same thing happened in the fishing industry a few years back. and never made this much wave.
I love watching the major tournaments, but haven't tuned in for a single PGA event since LIV was launched. So much more fun to watch LIV, no more morning to afternoon tee time differences where the weather/course changes almost completely. Players seem happier, looser and the team competition is actually a fun dynamic.
@@BigSnipp I think you'd be really disappointed to learn what Saudi money props up investing in companies you probably survive off of, haha. Always ignorant hypocrisy, or out right. Enjoy what you enjoy, don't try to hate on something on the account of virtual signaling, with no actions behind your beliefs.
I'm with Andrew Santino on this one. I always believe competition is a good thing. PGA needs to figure out how to evolve a bit more and maybe change some old rules and policies to bring some new fans in. Also the fact you can't take footage from your play to hype up on social media is ridiculous. Golf is pretty boring ..so why wouldn't you want your players posting awesome highlights on their social media pages of the fun cool stuff that might intrigue people into watching it. Idk man this whole There's only allowed to be one company or sports league is ridiculous. It's a open market. You can do whatever you want and no one can say you can't.
@@Cornwall1888 the knight of all morals writing this comment with a device all made from blood money. I know I’m doing the same, but talking about sportwashing is just bullshit. The US and Europe are acting like they care about people, all this nonsense is just them justifying moving to 3rd world countries building chemicals factories with zero regulations and care for human rights… hypocrites
yeah lets make it all gimmicks like baseball and football. Maybe we could get strippers and sound effects everytime someone hits a ball or misses a shot. Awesome!!!! Itll be just like the movie Dodgeball, SWEET! Thatll get the kids in for 30 seconds. Maybe sll the golfers can wear 600 sponsor oatches like nascar and the blue angels can fly over rhe course. I cant wait for alternate golf club colors each season. Can we redesign the courses to pitched towards a bigger hole so theres more hole in ones too? How bout a flying jumbotron blimp for rhe crowds. RADICAL DUDE! I cant wait to see everyone on one wheels and hoverboards, golf carts are so bulky and terrible for things. Theres too many golf clubs too, happy gilmore only needed a drivsr and a putter, like wtf? I just hope someone cool wins the Budweiser PGA Amazin classic brought to you by StatefarmnInsyrance at the Meta bowl
@@daroaminggnome i dont take meds, nice projection. Im just demonstrating how kittle changes to sports lesd to garbage over time and why the PGA is attempting to mantain their brand and golf. Theyve seen what going for the quick bucl has done to all the other sports that have changed to "grow the audience" and how they have to keep changing because its never good enough. Look how much baseball has changed in the past 20 or so years. Seems all fake at this point. How many game 7s are there in sports now? Seems very unlikely it went from a rarity to a regularity. I mean come on
A few things: The typical capacity at the 16th hole is around 20,000 (daily). Pro golfers are independent contractors who are given the choice of the PGA TOUR or sign with LIV. There’s a big difference though, with the tour they actually have some freedom unlike those with LIV who are obligated to play where and when they are told. Some golfers want to “have their cake and eat it too” desiring to play both, this is what the tour opposes. Ultimately, make your choice and live with it.
you are very correct keith on all points - recognize that the ones that went to LIV -got paid an awful lot of money for it - and as you notice they are unable to be content with that - speaks much more about those individuals than anything else.
I wish they would have touched on the fact that PGA didn't have any guaranteed money to play in these tournaments. I would have liked to have heard Joe's view on that
@@rand0me and once they qualify they should be paid plain and simple. Literally the only professional sport that you can show up and not get paid... And they changed it btw so now all golfers get paid some money regardless of if they make the cut or not. So they know they were wrong, which goes back to what he was saying about them being stuck and rooted in tradition
@@spencerplummer8002 no, they shouldn’t. I have played competitively my whole life and the idea, the PRESSURE of playing and not getting paid is a part of what separates pro golf from other pro sports… You want paid, produce…plain and simple.
@@acbower4468 I disagree if you've put in the time and money to get to that level like these guys have they deserve to be reimbursed. Stop sticking up for the rich elitist they have more than enough to compensate these guys even if it doesn't cover their costs completely they deserve something for putting in the work to get there. Could you imagine a football player getting signed to a team and playing on Sunday and then because he has 3 fuck ups he doesn't get paid for the day, or a fighter in MMA shows up and gets knocked out and he doesn't get a paycheck at all!? It's insanity, their punishment for mediocrity should be they don't get to be pros anymore it shouldn't be they don't get paid at all. Eventually just getting show up pay will weed out the contenders from the pretenders.
The guys with the "quiet" signs use them to pump up the crowd. You're allowed to cheer/chirp during their back swings. Caddies race to the green. Shoe beers in the crowd. It's a wild time.
When I was in college, one of my dormmates asked me to teach him how to play golf. I asked why and he said he is a business major and the majority of deals made are on the links. Additionally, I know people with golf memberships, solely for business purposes.
Golf is an art form and while enjoying the thrill I enjoy a fine cigar. There are levels to fine handcrafted premium cigar and spirits. Selective boutique manufacturers like Didier Cigars is truly special. I’ve done the pairing with Angels Envy and a Salomon from Didier Cigars. The experience is truly magical and sophisticated.
Isn't that dude off the podcast with Bobby lee lol. Edit: that Zion comparison was crazy 😂😂😂 I wonder if dude from the Midwest kuz I haven't heard "yolk" Ina min lol. We definitely used to say that in scenario too
Where a lot of the controversy is coming in to play, is counting for world rankings. It’s like a company has fights like the UFC but it’s only one five minute round, and those fighters are being included in the world rankings.
They like to play golf because you can learn a lot about someone's personality by doing so. How aggressive they are, how they react under pressure, how competitive they are. It puts you in situations that really shows more about who they are.
@@freedfree7933 to some extent yes. This sport is more of an individual sport rather than a team sport though. It has plenty of down time when chasing your ball around the course.
@@freedfree7933 was about to say I could genuinely think of 10 other sports in 10 seconds that this would apply more so to and also this is any sport.
Golf has always been bigger than both the PGA and LIV, and any other tour where the game is grown through excelling at the game. My only hope, as an instructor and speaking also for Golf Course workers out there in general, that both of them can get their heads out of their asses and do more for public course growth/preservation, wages, and more localized help. That's where Golf's bigger picture is.
What they forgot to mention: The history of golf through the PGA Tour(Records, Stats, etc.) is devalued and will depreciate the more successful LIV becomes. And it goes much further than that.
This is exactly what ufc needs and fan’s wants to happen some giant competition but golf fans somehow don’t like it lol will ufc fans like it even it means more fighters pay?
