Thanks for the video Tom ,what an excellent vid for anyone who reloads.and of course my digital scale went to some other planet a few days ago so I'm back to the beams till I get a new one lol . Everyone have a BLESSED day.
I started reloading in 1995. Last year, (2021) I finally gave up my mechanical scale and charge thrower, and purchased a digital scale/dispenser. I repeatedly tested the new system vs the tried and true. There is no variation. Precision is precision, be it analog or digital. I didn't realize changing a piece of equipment can change the order of the process, but after figuring it out I'm happy with my new system. I really appreciate your videos. Thank you for sharing your process.
Thanks Dana, I'm glad that helped. And something I didn't mention in the video is the jump measurement doesn't have to be exact. It just needs to be close and make sure you aren't to close to the lands. The only thing that needs to be exact if you're worried about precision is the length of the bullet. If you run seating depth tests then you will find the best depth and how much jump you get won't matter. All that will matter is that you can precisely control the length of the bullet to do the tests and to repeat that length when loading in the future.
Thank You again😇I'm running into this exact issue because in my state we can only use lead-free bullets for hunting and these bullets end up occupying a lot of case cavity space, especially when loading for intermediate-length cartridges like 6.5 Grendel or 7.62x39. I'm either compressing the powder or exceeding the max OAL. I also think these solids will never expand to seal the bore as well as lead core bullets
Very enjoyable to watch, not complicated , not difficult and who doesn’t live that very relaxed unstressed voice. If you ever need an apprentice give me a shout , you can pay me in carrots
Thanks Tom for making this video on what you do for charging, seating, and testing. I learn some very useful information. I particularly like the powder increments by percentage. I have a 28 Nosler project that I think the percentage method will work very nicely for. I never thought to ever use a percentage increment system. Very smart!
Tom, I think you are one of the most knowledgeable and yet understated RU-vidrs out there. You have a clear understanding of the subject matter and, above all else, you know exactly what you want from your weapons system. Round nose seated to ensure reliability as you traipse through the bush in all sorts. But round nose? Eeek! What about your long range accuracy? How far off the lands? Eek! What about your long range accuracy? You won't be sub MOA!! Don't care. Shooting at relatively short ranges in to squidgy things that you want to stop in its tracks. But what about accuracy?!? Good enough to hit the criticals of said squidgy thing at all the ranges you plan to shoot at. More than good enough. Awesome practical approach to bringing home your dinner. Anyway, great vid as always. Edit: Should have also praised your explanation of how you develop your charges. Again, practical, logical and simple. All good stuff.
Interesting! On hunting loads I used to set mine 20 thousandths off the lands. And, I tested them thru the magazine to make sure they worked. LOL Nice video.
Thanks Kent, and I really should have mentioned that in the video about making sure it will fit in the mag! I didn't even think about it in this video because I knew it wasn't going to be an issue with a 150gr bullet and a 165gr round nose. But I will need to mention that in the future. And I have to wonder how long .020" off the lands has been to go to number?
The good thing about that broad nose bullets is a lot of times is you can get to the rifling and get backed off where you want it before you run out of magazine length most of the time with spitzer bullets your magazine don’t let it even get close so I generally go to what the book refers to seating depth and try it
I have ran into that quite a few times (magazine to short). That's one of the things I always loved about the 7x57 and .257 Roberts when they are chambered in long action rifles. Both are shorter than long action cartridges so you get plenty of room when they're in long action rifles.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving that is the one thing I was surprised about that 300 H&H it had a shorter throat and I was able to seat the bullets off the lands 30 thousands I read that hornady bullets like a jump of about that
@@scottscheuerman6170 The short throat depth also surprised me on my pre 64 Featherweight in .270. It's really shallow throat. And I suspect Winchester Power Point bullets do real well with a short jump which is why I'm guessing it's so shallow? I haven't been able to get any Power Points to try but I've always heard they shot better in the pre 64 than anything else and I think that's because of the jump?
I've got to get a rifle put together so I'll have something to try those loads in! The FN is almost finished. The checkering is killing me on it but I'm finally getting the hand of it. The 1903a3 is going to be a few weeks. And I am excited about both of them! So yes I'm ready to get to the range myself.
Great series of videos for the regular hunter. I'm really looking forward to see how they shoot! I'm preparing my Winchester model 70 30-06 for this season also so I'm really enjoying this.
I'm glad you're enjoying it and I can't wait to see how they shoot either. But these stocks turned into my white whales! The FN is almost finished. The only thing left is the checkering on one panel on one side of the pistol grip and then I'll be putting it together and we'll get to see how the round noses are going to shoot. The A3 is going be a lot longer. I stopped working on it so I could finish the FN and once I get back to it I'll still have to do the oil finish. I'm starting to feel the pressure because deer season isn't that far off!
I simply take a sacrificial case, cut 4 "petals" into the neck so that I can place a bullet in with just a little tension. After that, simply insert this into the chamber, close the bolt gently and then pull it out. The bullet will stop once it hits the lands and will compress into the case showing you the absolute longest length you can load that particular bullet so you can work off that measurement. I usually start at .030" off the lands. Playing with the length is my final step to attain accuracy.
Nice videos sir. Just discovered your channel and have watched a few videos plus these 3 in the reloading series. Looking forward to seeing your results with these loads. It's nice to see someone be a bit more practical from a hunters perspective and not trying to develop a bench rest load for deer hunting. I am with you on determining your level of precision needed and not over complicating it.
Thanks Zach, and I have a range trip planned for tomorrow morning so hopefully we'll get to see what those round nose bullets do. And I'm hoping that load does really well and not just to make my life easier on load development but because I've come to realize just how few hunters actually know anything about round nose bullets now. There seems to be a misconception that they aren't accurate and can't be used past 100 yards.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving looking forward to it. When I hunted with a 270 I was using 150 grain round nose for shots under 150 yards and had great success. Now I handload and use mild loads in 243 and 30-06 for the majority of my hunting. I have recently started using a 120 prohunter near a max charge in 6.5 grendel. Neat little round and plenty of punch unless I want to reach out a bit.
Thanks Mr River, your video was very helpful. Your video also covered several safety aspects that I’ve also seen mentioned in other videos which makes very good sense. I was very curious to see how you were going to measure your case head to jam length. I saw that you used the Hornady tool. My only question would be: once you shoot a cartridge its going to be full length resized with a shoulder bump of say .002, this will bring the shoulder of the case X distance from the head of the case. When a cartridge is loaded it is moved forward as far as it can go by the bolt and when the firing pin hits the primer. When you measure the overall to jam length using the Hornady guage, it seems to me the cartridge head to the bumped back .002” shoulder on resized brass is going make your overall head to jam length different on your once fired resized brass vs the Hornady tool’s case, thus effecting how far you need your bullet seated for desired off land distance. Some people have suggested you use a once fired pc of brass with its shoulder bumped back .002 for a bolt gun, then drill and tap the primer pocket to fit the Hornady tool for making of a modified case, then take measurements the same way you described. However this method requires the ability to drill a L size drill hole, then tap with a 5/16” 36 T.P.I. Tap, and then to size down your expanded neck of the once fired brass so the bullet slides nicely without too much slop. You briefly touched on your die setup for bumping the shoulder, but I didn’t see you verify/measure your case shoulder bump with a bump gauge insert mounted in your Hornady comparator tool body, you simply mentioned backing the die off somewhat so it just bumps the shoulder some. Overall I feel your video answered some very good questions I had. I never knew the proper below case head measurement for the primer, and also found you discussion about bullet seating depth interesting when it comes to the desired min amount being that of the bullet dia. I also watch gunblue490, and he also explains along the same principles. Gunblue also has a very interesting inexpensive way of measuring your chambers overall jam length with two measurements made with a cleaning rod to the end of the barrel and two pieces of tape. One measurement made with the bullet stuck into the chamber with slight pressure from a short cleaning rod inserted at the chamber end, then a long cleaning rod with flat end (jag with point filed off) is stuck into barrel muzzle end, and then marked precisely with tape placement squarly wrapped around the rod at barrel muzzle end. Then 2nd measurement made with bullet removed and rifle, bolt re-nserted back into the rifle, and bolt closed and locked, and then the same long rod then reinserted to when it hits the closed bolt face “with no extractor pin or firing pin interference”, and marking with tape precisely and squarely at end of barrel muzzle again. He then measures between the two leading edges of the tape on his cleaning rod to get the cartridge overall jam length (case heed to bullet tip) then subtracts the desired off lands amount, and then seats the bullet to this amount from case head to bullet tip. After this measurement from case head to bullet tip is achieved, I would then measure the case head to bullet ogive amount of the cartridge, and then use this length measurement to repeat for all cartridges being reloaded. The only problem I see with this method unlike the Hornady tool method is it doesn’t utilize pushing a case shoulder up into your chamber until it stops, and also pushing until the bullet stops for obtaining your jam length for reference. So my thoughts are your method with the Hornady tool utilizing a once fired pc of brass resized and with the shoulder bumped back .002” (using bump gauge comparator for a bolt gun) might be the most accurate way of obtaining the most accurate measurement of off the lands bullet seating depth? It seems to me that this accuracy aspect would only apply to knowing where you actually are at 1st measurement, thus having consistent comparative measurements there after so you can then work your load to peak accuracy. Obviously it would appear that the Hornady method with its caliber specific case should also give a person an acceptable reference point to work from as well, even if the measurement may be off somewhat from actual off lands measurement, compared to when using your own barrel fired and resized/bumped brass screwed onto the Hornady tools end. Lol, I know you are trying to do your utmost to keep this video series simple Mr. River, and I truly respect your awesome teachings thus far. “Simple, Accurate & Safe”, thanks again my friend, & God bless. 😎👍
Mike I think you're falling into the trap of searching for absolute values when you only need relative values? Everything you said about getting the most accurate value for JAM length is pretty much correct but keep in mind there is always going to be some measurement error. And at the end of the day you don't need an exact jam length. You just need a number fairly close. And I'm not just dismissing the need for precision in your measurements it's just the only place you need to be precise is in measuring the length of the bullet once it's seated. It doesn't really matter if it's. 0.025" off the lands or 0.015" and that's because if it's an accurate load it's an accurate load and if you can repeat that bullet length with all of your bullets then it will always be an accurate load. And when you do your length tests to find the best seating depth (if you even feel that you need to) then the best seating depth is going to be where ever in relation to the lands for that specific load and whatever that distance to the lands is will irrelevant. Again all that will matter is that you can precisely control the length of the cartridge and reproduce that both for the testing phase so that you can have exact values for the testing and for reloading bullets in the future. And I don't want it to sound like I don't care about precision because I do. I just don't want to invest the extra time, effort, and money into obtaining and exact absolute jam value for every bullet I load for in every rifle I load for when at the end of the day that value is irrelevant. Knowing that value and it being an extremely precise value is not going to do anything to increase the precision or accuracy of my loads. The jam length is just a starting point and to make sure you are not to close to the lands. At least that's my view. As for me bumping the shoulder, I didn't bump these cases. I just full length sized them because they were either new brass or fired in someone else's rifle. I probably could have taken a case fired in the FN (that's the rifle the once fired Remington brass is going in) and zeroed my calipers to it and then sized the Remington brass bumping the shoulder so that it was .002" or smaller relative to that case and been fine but I just went ahead and full length sized it all. And keep in mind fully full length sizing is only "bumping" the shoulder by about .007". So it's still close. I hope that helps and if you have any more questions just ask.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Good morning, thank you for your reply. I believe I understand what your saying. Get a starting point for your overall length that you know is off the lands to a relative degree of accuracy, that way you are not going to over pressurize with a spike when you reach max powder charge levels when testing various charge loads. I would assume that if one starts to move their seating depth closer to the lands when testing for an ideal seating depth, they better be careful and start looking for over pressurized signs such as flattened out primers. But as said ideal load might be found at much greater off land distances anyways, so no need to chase the lands! And as you mentioned with some calibers and shorter bullets, you might not end up with bullet seating depth deep enough into the case neck to hold proper tension on the bullet if trying to kiss your lands with the reloads. So it would seem like consistency with repeatability along with accurate powder charge measurements, along with good note taking will be your best friend. I would be curious to know (measure) where my stock Winchester .243 Win 100 grain and .270 Win 130 grain SAAMI Spec.hunting ammo measures off the lands in my stock Model 70 barrels. It would seem like this might be a good starting point for bullet seating depth, “after all the manufacture should know what they are doing you would think 🤩.” Take care and God bless.
I've never looked at my powder charge increment in terms of a percentage. I've always used .1 gr for smaller rounds like Hornet, .2 gr for .223 sized rounds, .3 gr for .243, .4 gr for '06 sized rounds and .5 gr for Magnum rounds. I call these increments the window. In most instances, the barrel harmonics will be pretty close to the same with a charge weight anywhere within that window. Show us the rest of that room sometime, Tom. Got to see some saw blades hanging on the wall this time around. Haha! Thanks!
I agree, we all want to see more of Mr. Rivers man-cave. I think he’s just waiting to purty it up some first since he has so much work going on ….“AKA MESS lol.” I like his idea of using powder charge as a percentage, but as Tom states, his way isn’t the only way. If your way works for you, then I would stick with it. God bless.
Hi Tom, Great videos, learned a lot, especially with this reload series. Any chance you can share the excel page you use for recording your load data? PS. you think you have temp variations there, try it here in Canada....lol Kepp up the great vids. Tony
Thanks Tony, and yes I don't suppose I can say much about temp variations especially with the high temps I keep hearing about in Canada this year. Stay cool and I'm going to try and make that load sheet available in the Tom River Simple Living Group on Facebook this weekend. I read that I should be able to up load a file to it?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thank you Tom, I really appreciate that. I am sure others will use it as well. Keep up the great videos. PS. What part of FL are you in. I have lots of friends in the Pensacola area.
Yes, someone else asked the same question and I was going to make it available in the Facebook. I just got side tracked this past week. I'll mention that when I get it on there.
Another video about loads just buy a box of 270 Remington core locked bullets and go kill anything out to 600 yards fire a couple into a five gallon bucket and go hit the field better yet drive around till you find something to shoot and kill them from the truck it’s that simple we don’t need to make a college course out of this
I usually do for my hunting cartridges but I didn't these. I talked about that briefly towards the end but I don't have a crimping die for .30cal bullets right now just because I haven't hunted with one for sometime. I could roll crimp the Hornady SST bullets but the Speers don't have a cannelure grove. So I figured I would just wait until I get the Lee die and it can crimp both, and that's what I use for my other cartridges.
