@JVC7400 True.. in a sense it all comes down to pilot training. bottom line is, if you can affoard alot of training, you will come out pretty good.. however Electronic warfare and countermeasure will play a huge role. The report below shows that the F-16 Pilots enjoyed the Mig29, but I would say it did not leave them.. wanting to fly the mig29 instead of the F-16. That said however, the two pitted against each other.. comes down to Logistical Tac issues and Pilot training.
@JuergenGDB as a read, The decision was bring some business. Modernization of Migs v.4xx or build a new v.4xx one in German soil and keep the money inside. The mig still the most maneuverable. Now Migs v35s, fly by wire, network combat, multi-roll and better anti-measures are just killer jet. the F-16 was designed to give a ship air support to f-15s. Not for air superiority but for less expensive regional needs.
@Elfulcrum777 Yeah.. not much data on that however since most of the Soviet aircraft were updated, including purchases of MI-35 (upgraded) it would not be past Ethiopian Military to have the latest tech in the Mig-21.. who knows, it could have been flown by a Vetran Russian 'Advisor". Anyways as of 2004 Ethiopia has made great lengths to purchase good equipment. I tried looking at both countries.. but sometimes it conflicts... which is normal. But the Ethiopian SU-25s are great.
@JVC7400 Well I think there were some obvious variable in why the Germans sold off the Mig-29, probably parts? and the development of the Eurofighter. There was also some interview. (trying to find) where they said the F-16 was more manuverable then the Mig-29... but this is like comparing the ME-109 with the Spitfire.. (Not exactly just an analogy as both planes have strengths and weakness at different altitudes.. loadouts etc.))
@xtasytube True but you have to remember that all the F-15's and F-16 have been revamped who knows how many times... IT is the US that does not designate them with different numbers.. ie F-15, F-16 to F-23, or F-19 etc. They use the same designation prefix, no matter how many times they update them. The US F-15's are some of the most lethal flying machines around. The F-16's are extremely versitle, and agile platforms, with the assistance of J-Star and Awacs = Superior Logistics.
@Elfulcrum777 Yeah there actually is a article on the story. The Mig-29's came from the Ukraine with Updates,??? unkown updates but they trained the Eratriean Pilots. The SU-27 came from Russia and had ALL the bells and whistles, wether Ethiopa kept all or paid for all the updates is unkown, however "Russian Advisors" frequently went on patrols with the Ethiopians, they also have a 2 seat trainer there as well.
@Elfulcrum777 There is no doubt that the SU-27 is a great Aircraft, no dispute there. However you have to remember that it was Russian Pilots flying the SU-27's in Africa... There is more to that story. Not that the Ethiopians are not capable, but there were several Russian Pilots with ground crew there. Just like in Korea, Soviet Pilots have always been eager to get into combat. The US did the same thing vs the Germans in WWII....along with other pilots from different countries.
@Elfulcrum777 True.. for me nothing is proven, unless it has seen combat. Combat is the true test for any machine or piece of equipment. I would say that it would perform as expected, people were concerend about the F-18, and F-15E, and in the Gulf wars etc.. they have performed extremely well, however only against sub-trained pilots. The more training the enemy has, the better capable their machines will be, no matter how outdated.... although Technology can give extreme advantages.
@DBZafro345 True, but when it comes to raw power and machinery it is the Mig-29, it is more maneuverable and has more power, Remember, what i said was in a DOGFIGHT, You can say on the other hand, that if these two guys were meeting in a BVR engagement, my money would be on the F-16 with the best avionics.
@JuergenGDB well i read it in a book, and it said that the german airforce pilots tested the aircrafts against each other. and the result was that the F16 pilots wouldt admit they were no-chance. im not a russian build aircraft fanboy if thats what you think. I dont remember where is saw the 50/52 superiority, because this comment was a year old. but when it comes to all, pilot skill of course is the nr 1 question.
@Elfulcrum777 Yes.. it pays to have a good aircraft.. my point was. .the female was Russian "Su-27S, flown by female pilot Capt. Aster Tolossa" The EtAF - now under command of former Russian Gen. Yanakow...and a merry band of Mercenary Russian Pilots. Anyways its a small matter. The SU-27 is a great Aircraft, especially in the hands of capable pilots regardless of where they come from. However the more training you have, the better the PILOT will perform in combat. How big is your budget?
@Elfulcrum777 Yeah there is a short story of it found at geocities com Anyways all 5-6 Mig 29's the Eratrieans purchased were destroyed by Close air R-73's. However the Mig-29s did evade Frontal aproach launces by the Su-27's, but in the end it came down to the Russian Pilot skills. I believe 2 Mig-29 were downed by Ethiopian Pilots.. but again the entire Engagements are somewhat Vague, and possibly not 100% accurate. It is fact though, that Russian Pilots were flying for the Ethiopans.
in real world the newest MIG-29's would be the winner even against the F16 block 50/52 F15 and F16 was build side by side, (F15 heavy) (F16 light) and Russia made the Su 27 (heavy) and the MIG 29 (light) to counterpart the F15 and F16
@Elfulcrum777 Yeah.. cant say that I blame them.. Hell I would. If I had a Small number of Su-27 vs Mig29 and I knew my 'Friends" were right there with me piloting the SU-27, I would try and get some Air to Air combat.. it would only make you that much more valuable when you got home. Not to mention the personal feeling it must be knowing you had air to air victories over a very versitle and nimble fighter as the Mig-29. by the way the Mig-29's were updated by the Ukraine... crazy!
@JVC7400 There was alot of BUTS in their report. Also again From ACTUAL PILOTS read the article. Luftwaffe MiG-29s flew on several ocations against Falcons. One such experience described by a USAF pilot in Aviano Vigileer's article which might give you some idea about how it went. Read Aviano Vigileer's if you can find it.
@Elfulcrum777 I believe they have the following..11 Su-27SK, 3 Su-27P, and 4 Su-27UB. Only 15 SU-27's, but who the hell in the immidiate area besided Egypt is going to give them any trouble? Oh and by the way I looked up Eritrea and they now have 6 SU-27's, I believe bought from the Ukraine. But Ethiopia still has 4 SU-25, about 18 Mi-24/35 Helo's, 21 Mig 21 (Which they will eventually replace with Su-27's, 12 MIg 23's. Janes still show Eritrea with 8 SU27, 16 Mig-29, 10 Su25....
@JVC7400 Mig29 compared to the F-16. Performance: Good Aerodynamics - But Compromised by Construction- Inferior to F-16 Supersonically, Parity at Subsonic Speeds, Slight Superiority at Very Slow Speeds. Flight Controls - Manual System Limits Use of Full Capabilities But Allows for Superior Pilot Individualized Capabilities. Cockpit - Head-Down Concept and Poor PVI Integration Decreases Effectiveness
@PatchworkFlag You people really do play alot of video games.. Firstly aircraft are designed for different roles.. in this case.. both here are multi-role... with the Mig-29 being HUGE compared to the F-16. Secondly you have to take into consideration PILOT SKILL.... the US trains extensivly with the F-16, and even have trained with German Mig-29's. Thirdly you have to look at their LOADOUTS and their Electronic Suits, and Logistical support it will have in the AIR.. AWACS, JSTAR etc.
How can you say that one plane rules but you hate it?You can say nothing about the OVT because it's just a prototype...It is not a fully functional war machine...as for Mig 29 and F 16...well the mig is more manueverable but the 16 has more a/g capabilities.But i like the Fulcrum more.
@PatchworkFlag Thats cool, Im sure it will be a good plane.. the funny thing is, if you look at the design.. it looks soo familiar to the F-22. My god.. is there anything the soviets will not copy.. LOL Anyways Im sure it will be a good plane.. we will never truly know what one is better, unless we go to war... and that would be bad.
Well I just read two mig29 were brung down in Kosovo by F-16, the only aircraft which took down more than 10 mig 29's is the F-15 and the later should be compared with Su-27 and the later versions of it with the Su-35
@JVC7400 Yeah.. ok whatever. " if almost any two modern fighters came up against each other in a dogfight, pilot skill would certainly be the main deciding factor." Vetran Pilot. I will post a comparison by top NATO officials.. One reason why also the Germans sold their Mig-29's.
