Locum Doctor vs GP Trainee Doctor Pay in the NHS (How much do locum doctors make?) 

I agree one of the main things I miss about being in training is the progression and training opportunities that you get. Like you said as well if you're not able to work for whatever reason your income will stop and that can be a worry.

I think this is the challenge lots of doctors who have finished their foundation training are facing. I think because ultimately I know what I want to do (GP training) and it is such a short training programme (compared to other specialities) that makes it easier

Thanks!

It’s my understanding you can but you’ve got to make sure that you’re not going over the maximum number of hours you’re allowed to work

@@colinkilday wait, there’s a limit? I’m confused

@@tochianozie your working hours must meet the working time directive unless you opt out www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours

If you complete the foundation training programme then your completion certificate lasts 3.5 years before it is no longer recognised for speciality training. You can still apply after the 3.5 years though, but you just need to get a CREST form signed as well. You don’t have to sit any tests if you’re working as a locum but you do have to have an annual appraisal. This can cost a bit as well as you usually have to fund it yourself You can locum as a consultant and I’d imagine the pay rate depends on the speciality your working in, what type of shift it is (E.g. on-call shift) and where in the country you are willing to work. As for where you can find the pay rates for different specialities I’m not to sure Hope this helps!

@@colinkilday yes thats very helpful thank you but what is a crest form? And how much would an annual appriasal cost on average?

@@partnermammoth2562 Its a certificate of readiness to enter specialty training (CREST) form. This link explains it in a lot more detail than I can: roadtouk.com/training-in-uk/training-overview/crest-form-uk-foundation-competencies/ As for the appraisal I paid £300 for my latest one. Some locum agencies will pay for it if you work so many hours with them.

@@colinkilday ok thank you so much for clearing all this up for me

Locums working through an agency are not normally in the pension scheme. I do appreciate that benefits of training which is why I have applied for a training programme

At the end of the day I’m employed to work in a role which I do to the best of my ability. I think it’s unfair not to discuss pay and people should be able to have open and honest discussions about it. I was maybe slightly clumsily trying to make the point that pay is something that should be considered when you re-enter training and that there is an argument that doctors in training and other healthcare staff on contracts should be paid more. This in itself would likely increase staff retention and therefore reduce the need for locums. And yes whilst working as a locum does often result in earning more money but it also offers flexibility which allows you to take on on other commitments. For example in the past year I’ve managed to complete a full-time Masters course in Health Professions Education. I’ve also increased my teaching commitments. If I had been working full time on training contract I would not have been able to dedicate the time needed to this due to a lack of flexibility. As for the ethical aspect of “providing a fragmented service” I’ve worked in the exact same job in the exact same hospital on exact same ward for over 2 years now as a locum. This vacancy has been out for 2 years and no one has filled it. Like most hospitals there continues to be a significant shortage of staff. Ironically working as a locum in this post has been the longest time I have had without having to rotate or had a changing shift pattern. This means that arguably that patients I see as a ward doctor would have a greater level of continuity of care. I also don’t rotate specialities so I have been in the same department for 2 years were as working as a foundation doctor means you rotate every 4 months. Also, more importantly patients are admitted under a Consultant who is responsible for their care and this does not change depending on the day were as ward SHOs frequently change due to shift patterns.

Lol do you think doctors work for free? Why should ethics enter the discussion only for them? Do you discuss the ethics of pay with a plumber when you call them out on a bank holiday? How about an orthodontist who charges more because it'll take longer to fix your teeth? Doctors deserve to be paid appropriately for their time, just like everyone else. If you have a problem with this "fragmented service" you should be talking to the government, who are the only ones who have the power to raise doctor salaries and perhaps keep people in full time employment. Until then, doctors will continue to leave the country, the profession, or work in the locum free market, because supply and demand dictates everything on this planet aside from public sector salaries apparently.

@@MistaKasko I am a doctor and don't like working for free. I think however that doctors should fight for higher pay and to eliminate locum once and for all. There's little incentive of filling posts in some hospitals because you can be paid 3x that by taking locum instead. As it is, the presence of locum means that there is sort of a "free market" which doesn't bode well for patients interests and for the future of the NHS. Unless you are a fan of privatisation in which case this system it's just an appetiser of. You say that doctors need to be paid for their time and I agree, but they should be enticed into regular contracts with higher pay rather than get into locum work. But it all depends on how you see things...working as a doctor is not like being a plumber oran orthidontist, doctors should be encouraged into full time wellpaid jobs with carreer opportunities and better working conditions instead of short high wage locum work. But it is pretty obvious the government is not interested in improving working conditions and doctors seem quite happy of having to do highly financially rewarding locum, part time with locum et, so things are likely to get worse.

@@MistaKasko and also "why do ethics should apply only to them?". Because we are doctors and ethics are a big part of it. But then I see you compare docs with plumbers so we are probably not on the same ideological ground.

@@michelecarbone2896 Why are ethics a big part of doctors practice in the UK? This isn't America. Nobody has taken an oath when they enter medical school. They can work for whatever fee they want. What job should I compare doctors to? Name me a comparable profession that isn't paid better in the UK, I'll wait.

This sounds like a very bitter comment, I can imagine they will happily move abroad with their training if this happens & if not, they are highly skilled and qualified enough to enter alternative industries (being part of a GP practice alone gives you a wide range of key transferable skills) both to which the NHS will be detrimentally poorer for.

@@mna2753 Not bitter at all, it's just very obvious to me. How the Govt navigate this ( through policy introduction) will either protect the job of a GP or wipe them out....

Agree that mid level encroachment is a real threat, and will ultimately result in substandard care for the population it serves, but that's the price that is paid by the taxpayer for refusing to compensate doctors appropriately. As for ChatGPT, not a chance. It will be multiple decades before AI replaces doctors, following which, some people will die, and the entire thing will be reverted just for the process to start again. Also, given that you think ChatGPT is the pinnacle of artificial intelligence and is the greatest technological threat to the medical workforce, I can safely assume you don't actually know that much about AI. Lastly, by the time AI is able to replace the role of a doctor in any setting, there will have been mass layoffs within many other sectors and the world will likely be on fire due to industries collapsing overnight.

@@mna2753 nope, you cant get enpugh docs to fill the positions, sadly locums will always be available.

How much copium are you huffing daily to come up with this number ?