Loghain Mac Tir {Char. - Spoilers All} 

Zevran and Loghain may only have 1 party banter line, but it is definitely one of the funniest.

One thing I liked about this series is this: back in Origins, when Loghain responds to a suggestion of requesting help from Orlais to end the Blight by snapping back immediately and yelling "Not a chance! We didn't kick them out 30 years ago to welcome them back now with open arms". This (back on Origins) might make you think that he is paranoid. But then you play through Inquisition, get to the Winter Palace, and realize that Loghain was right on the money with that one - their ruling class has no concept of honor.

Get you someone who loves you as much as Loghain Mac Tir hates the chevaliers.

I've always loved having him be the one that stays in the fade in DAI. There's something poetic about his last line being, "for the wardens!"

Loghain is definitely my favorite villain and I am sad that I can't bring myself to recruit him permanently due to losing Alistair and how his fate ends up if you do. I love seeing him be hit HARD with just how badly he fucked up and how he just accepts that no one will ever favor or trust him, but still does whatever he can to make up for what he did. I feel like he isn't talked about nearly enough which is sad as if there was anyone who could relate to Solas in Dreadwolf...it very well could be Loghain who knows what it's like to turn into a monster trying to protect and revive the land you love.

. . . Why did I tear up over Loghain and his dog at the end?

Describing the entire events of the Calling like Maric taking a gap year in college killed me. Great video!

Does anyone else want to find out how Hawke and Loghain became friends? We know how it happened for Stroud and Alistair, but I *really* want to find out how a survivor of Loghain's betrayal and Loghain himself became friends. Somebody write *that* short story.

Loghain had every reason to hate Orlais, but his hatred blinded him greatly

The fabled Loghain video. The curse is broken it seems.

Loghain in my opinion is the best written character in the series with a really beautiful redemption arc as time goes on. Ending as the senior Warden in Orlais is too perfect.

One of the most compelling antagonists in all of Dragon Age thank you for doing this character justice

I used to be hard-core against loghain, like I would kill him every single time in DAO(except one time for the achievement), this all changed after I played with the Dragon age Keep world state for one of my runs of DAI I found myself being more sympathetic to him, I expected him to be bitter, or even aggressive, but from my perspective he seemed genuinely repentant, it gives me the image of a good man tainted with an ends justify the means mentality. Now I find myself much more willing to show him mercy in DAO

Loghain is my favorite character in the series alongside Hawke You can imagine how difficult that decision in the fade was for me.

One thing I absolutely love about Dragon Age's writing is how even when its a decsion that I'll never do, such as trading Alistair for Logain or driving Bull back to the Qun, they make sure the story will still have impactful satisfying climaxes.

So many mixed feelings about this guy. He's a fascinating character, so many sides to him, and I think whether he made the right call at Ostagar is a lot more complicated than many fans would like it to be. But at the same time I just can't forgive him for literally selling elves into slavery. Not that it would be okay to do it to anybody else either, but you know he never would have done that to humans. My first ever experience with Dragon Age was playing as Tabris, so those were literally my character's friends and family and community he was selling away. It's hard to think of that as being for the "good of the country".

Please don't make me care about this guy I've killed so many times

While I personally don't like Loghain, recruiting him into the party/grey wardens while Alistair stays to become the king with Anora makes the most logical sense to me and is my canon worldstate.

Loghain is such… A beautiful, wonderful and poetic character. Loghain spent his youth suffering under Orlais and, understandably, developed a hatred towards the Orlesian people. What I love the most is that he grows from commoner to a noble second only to the King, then he became a traitor to his country in fear of Orlais. He either dies a traitor, dies a hero saving Ferelden from the Archdemon or lives on as the traitor Teyrn living the Warden Outposts of Orlais of all places. Loghain’s journey from hating Orlais to calling Orlais’ Wardens his brothers is so beautiful to me. He’s just… He’s got the best character arc in the entire series and there’s few characters so conflicted and yet despite the fact that he is a bad person, he remains a good man.

Finally the vid i've been waiting for! One of my favourite characters, most sympathetic villain or the most morally grey companion. Thank you

Caitie at 21:40 -- "this is _too much BioWare Daddy."_

Thank you for this great video. Loghain is an extremely fascinating character. Opinion about why he had the bounty on every warden's head: I think that it had a lot to do that Duncan was involved with Marric in "the Calling" and it is mentioned that Loghain blamed the Wardens that Orlais was trying to kidnap Marric back then in the tower of Magi. Something that was not entirely false after the Great Enchanter back then was Orlesian and Genevive did have a deal with him. It was all a little confusing and weird but in that way it would make sense that he mistrusted the Wardens in general. Same with Eamon, he not just wanted to delay Redcliffe's men but get Eamon out of the way, who was married to Isolde - an Orlesian noble woman. From what I get is that he saw her as a Orlesian Spy - not that she would have been smart enough for that - but thanks to her Eamon was very open to Orlesians and if you grow up hating Orlais and want them to be gone, every sympathizer is an enemy. I do not excuse Loghain's decisions about the Elves in the Alienage, it was horrible, but I don't think it was all him. No matter if you are an alienage elf or not, the wedding happens and the riot follows, causing Howe to "take care of this" killing the Arl of Dennerim after he made sure that no matter if his son lives or dies never is seen anymore, to become Arl of Denerim himself. He grants Loghain to take care of the Riot, yes Loghain signed the contract knowing what he was signing - something that is horrible and unforgivable - but I think that Howe has a lot to do with that too. All in all, yes he did a lot of horrible things, but as a warden we scare the crap out of him, until he joins us and sees that we are at least not necessarily the evil warden he thought we would be. Since I read the book I cannot kill Loghain with a good conscience anymore. So yeah it since then mostly ends in me hardening Alistair and put him with Anora on the throne. Making the god baby xD ignoring that very weird scene and then meeting him in DA:Inquisition. Though I cannot bring myself to leave Hawke behind. So it's always him. And me being depressed.

Ah yes. The ‘villain’ who believed himself the ‘hero’. Or was it the other way around? You decide.

Though I still think Loghain’s actions are inexcusable, (like outlawing the Wardens, selling out the elves at the alienage, and worst having Arl Fucking Howe in his ear; but I digress.), he isn’t a cartoony villain. Him witnessing his mother getting brutalized and being forced to watch… and here I thought Howe was a sadistic lowlife. What an amazing character.

I have a playthrough with him joining the wardens surviving the battle and making out of the fade in inquisition dude must think he is immortal at this point

I was so happy to learn he’s voiced by Simon Templeman- the voice of Kain from the Legacy of Kain series :)

Loghain is such an incredible character. After reading the books I’ve always been heartbroken when I inevitably kill him (my canon is Anora and Allistair rule together). He’s a great man, but the trauma he’s had to go through finally broke him when we needed him most. 😭

After reading the novels, I can never kill Loghain. Even with all the evil shit he did, the guy earned too much respect in his youth.

Yay been waiting for this and it drops on my lunch!! Wicked! I hope you feel better! I appreciate all the effort and time you put into videos like this! 💝

Starting the video with that exchange was a very good choice, imo.

I’ve been waiting for this video so when I saw it in notifications I got excited!!!

I have waited for years for it thank you!

Anyone who has played Origins should read the novels. Yeah they're a bit of a chore at times, and more than a bit cringe when it comes to their female characters, but wow is it worth it to make Loghain tragic and compelling.

Logain is not that thrilled to sleep with Morrigan either :) I Actually had a difficult time convincing him to do it.

In more than a dozen playthroughs of Origins I could never get myself to recruit Loghain.

i always hated loghain (as ppl are meant to obvs, hes a great villain) but ngl knowing so much more about him makes him So much more likeable. i love your videos so much, thank you

I first played origins years ago when I was quite a bit younger and bought the games on steam around the time this video was released, which was also around the time I found this channel. I have a much higher appreciation for the game now that I’m older and understand stuff more and can appreciate it. I never once considered taking Loghain but decided I wanted to play the most depressing world state possible so I recruited him. I planned to have him kill the arch demon (I was literally trying to kill off all my companions that I could) but then I honestly, ended up really enjoying Loghain as a companion and character as a whole, I took him on dlcs to spend more time with him and wished I could do more. Then I couldn’t just bring myself to kill him, but it also didn’t fit in my plans to sacrifice my warden, so I just found the most rational reason, which was the fact we literally do not know what the OGB soul will do and how dangerous it is, for all we know it can still cause a blight or have some unforeseen negative impact and it just made sense to make a selfish decision to save my own life.

I'm glad this topic showed up now. I'm following a couple of Origins playthroughs and am actually going through the game myself. New insights are always welcome. And yes, I'm actually finding new things in the game.

I somehow visualize loghains dad as Mel Gibson from the patriot.

I have missed your lore videos so much and now with the new series coming up, I'm rebooting up dragon age origins with mods and aiming to do another play-through!

Aka one of, if not the best characters in the game. He really is a fantastic villain turned hero (should you spare him) and his final (?) appearance when you leave him in the fade was perfect. If you ask me, he deserves to be happy and has more than earned his redemption. I forgive him for everything he's ever done. I also cant exactly blame him for hating the orlesians. I wanted to save him, I really did. But I just couldn't. I couldn't leave Hawke behind. And now I'm in my new canon playthrough. I despise Morrigan with a passion and the whole god baby thing is something I'm no longer comfortable with. So I have to either let him die to save us all, or I die. I still dont know what choice is better. I dont want loghain to die. But I dont either. I dont know what to do. Side note can we all agree how brilliant the leave (insert character) part in the fade was? It is probably the only DA choice that left me contemplating for half an hour. It was so tragic. I'm glad I didnt have to choose between Hawke and Alistair. That would've broke me. Also congrats on getting a request from the guy behind the voice of the hero of river dane himself. That must be such an honor! Here's to DA Dreadwolf!

Fun fact in Origins Loghain is actually voiced by british actor Simon Templeman who in terms of video game works is best known for his role as Kain a Vampire from the Legacy of Kain games and is a very complex character in those games as well. So the first time i tried Origins and thought there was something famliar about Loghains voice after a quick imdb search it was then i found out it was Kain himself and thats why Loghains voice was familiar to me

am i...................... oh god am i the only one in the world who boots alistair out of my party and just replaces him with dog and loghain am i the bad guy..... no........

On the playthrough where i saved Loghain, i took him in my party and made him play with no armor or weapon. He ran around in his undies the whole time and it was glorious 😄

Read Stolen Throne and was like why did you do that in Origins loghain🥺

Your warden can do the ritual with Morrigan and both of you can live without the creepy ritual scene with logain. That's also an option

She returns!!!

Wait....Loghain did tax evasion? I knew there was a reason I let him live as a warden. Kindred spirits I see.

Okay, if I were to adapt the games into a series format, I had an idea: instead of killing Loghain on the spot, the Warden uses a proxy execution (bag over the head type deal) and orders Loghain (in full armour) to man Fort Drakon with his most loyal soldiers. Loghain then dies trying to defend Alistair during the siege, redeeming himself. Also, Cauthrien becomes Anora's bodyguard because we all deserve nice things.

Loghain is my favorite of all dragon age characters! Complex, a huge survivor...I didn't left him in the fade hoping he add more and have a more complex end in DA 4.

One of my favourite details about Loghain is how his decision at Ostagar mirrors Rowan's decision to go and help him early in The stolen thron during the first battle we see against the orlesians. I know it was obviously written to be a callback to Origins but I like it because it makes a weird sort of foreshadowing of his later/earlier in the series (depending if you look at it in events order or writing order)

I will now have nightmares at the thought Loghain's LGB. This is something that I don't want to think about much. Yikes.

He’s both a monster and a hero. I love to give him his redemption tale in DAI cause honestly it’s so well done to complete his arc, but so is his death in DAO. Honestly I think Paranoia got him more than anything else.

One of my favorite characters. In my first playthrough I wanted to conscript him, however Alistair was unhardened and I wanted to end the game with him. I admit I felt bad for Loghain, because I've always felt I was killing his character development early or I was missing a big part of his story. In my first World State now he is the Warden in DAI (I changed my Hero of Ferelden) and I find the dynamics with my Warrior! Hawke (who fought at Ostagar) really interesting.

In MY canon world, both the HoF and Hawke died for Loghain. My headcanon for DA4 we probably wont see is Loghain meeting Carver Hawke in the Anderfels and forming a splinter group of Wardens trying to overthrow the corrupted leadership. Consisting of Loghain, Carver, Anders (now redeemed after his lover Hawkes death), Sigrun, Ohgren, Stroud, Nathanial and Thom Reiner. A badass team of heroes led by the once disgraced Loghain. I think being able to keep such a hatable villain like Loghain around through all 3 games is fantastic that not many writers would do.

I'm in awe that such a complex character can be developed in a game. I first played DA:O and thought he was just a villain, but the reasoning behind his actions and his experiences make everything so much more interesting

The amount of endings in origins is phenomenonal. The fact that you could have Loghain not only survive, but then survive the arch demon while you die is crazy. And to top it off he can sleep with morrigan lol. Nuts

what if loghain being alive in DA:D actually helps save the world and all, him being at weisshaupt with his particular for of pragmatism may save the day and could even be a redemption arc. i doubt bioware would bother with it but it would be cool.

Loghain Surviving into Dragon Age 4: "If I had a nickel for every time I should have heroic sacrificed myself to redeem my villainous past, only for a protagonist to sacrifice themselves in my place, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice." Dragon Age 4: **Has a scene where Loghain or the Inquisitor has to sacrifice themselves.** Inquisitor: "Cowabunga." **Dies** Loghain: "Maker damn it, let me die already!!!"

I’ll tell you what the effort it took to keep Loghain alive and put Alistair on throne 😂😂

Everytime I'm ready to hate Loghain until infinity somebody comes along and makes him human again...

It's worth pointing out that Loghain had clearly planned to abandon Ostagar before the signal fire went up. He sealed off the tower before the battle, leaving the massive vulnerability that caused the signal's delay. He clearly couldn't see the battle unfold if he needed the signal to begin with, so his choice to retreat wasn't because things were going poorly. Both Howe's attack and the poisoning of Eamon were schemes that would have Loghain executed for treason once discovered, so his best bet to survive was for Cailan to die. You could argue it was a plan to delay Ostagar, but you could equally claim it was to weaken Cailan's support in the battle and ensure his death. All we have to say he abandoned Cailan for noble reasons are the feelings of people 10 years on, none of them supported by Loghain himself.

21:40 Don't worry, he looks uncomfortable too. xD

Controversial opinion: Kinda wish he was a romance option 👀

Loghain's father, Gareth, Defender of the Cheese, originally appeared in the television show "ER". It's a masterful easter egg in the game. Edit: It's the 2007 Episode titled "Coming Home". I tried to find a link, but to no avail.

I call ol Logaihn mr.angry muppet man o- o

I absolutely hated Loghain until my third playthrough were I decided through gritted teeth to keep him alive, and he became one of my favourite characters in the franchise

Never let Loghain live in any playthrough and never will

If you think about it loghain is like a gray warden because he doing whatever it takes to stop the blight in his nation may it be good or bad which is the main adjective of wardens In a twisted way my first play through of the game made me dislike him because the devs painted him as the obvious villain but in he's eyes (may it be slightly different from us as the players) he's the hero and we're the bad guys who's against him

Gonna be real with you, I hated Loghain in my first playthrough of DAO but over the years I've come to love his character. I find that if he survives DAO his content in later games is some of my favorite content. I also love the fact that he's seemingly the only character to change his fighting style (or class in game terms) having been a rogue during the events of the Stolen Throne (and this is where his DA2 items get their lore) but eventually becoming a warrior by the time of DAO and staying that way as a warden after DAO.

One of the best written characters in DA.

Can you do a Duncan character Spotlights/ analysis, please?

It’s crazy that as many times as I’ve played origins (dozens), and given how time and future titles have made me come to understand and respect his perspective more over the years, Loghain’s never survived one of my playthroughs. Just once I spared him in order to see an ending where hardened Alistair is King, my warden lives, and no old god baby gets made, but even then he died by killing Urthemiel. I think what it has to be is just how betrayed Alistair feels in any scenario where Loghain becomes a warden. It’s just too emotionally taxing, the game really drives home that you’re stabbing a friend in the back haha 🥲

Seems like the hard in Hightown chapter is NOT daying Loghain is dreaming if home peacefully. Donnen is, Loghain says your lucky if you don't wake up with memories of patrol, when hearing Donnen's memories of baking he sighs and replies that Donnen is in fact luckier than most. Leaves me to assume Loghain is not enjoying restful thoughts, but even in reat brooding on his faults and trauma.

Holy crap, I had no idea Loghain could make it to DA:I!

Man.....i just ...i cant betray Alistair he's ma boy the man man you know been with from the start my homie can't do him like that man

I hated Loghain when I first played DAO, and then my feelings got mixed when I discovered the novels. I still don't know what to think, but at the very least I've been inspired to make a "bad choices" run - because if you're gonna throw Alistair under the bus and pick Loghain, you may as well go evil all the way.

I like loghain he did what he thought was right and he has a great story and he is a great companion and you can tell he loves ferelden and will do anything for his country and I do kill him for alistair because I think alistair has the morale high and flemeth said he will betray you I spare him on my none headcanon or just to gey his opinion on the dlcs

can you do Cassandra Pentaghast

Ahoy!

I think Loghain is an incredibly interesting character and a flawed but not evil man. I will say that I don't think I heard you mention that Howe was working with Loghain and had already attacked the Cousland manor before Ostagar, implying that the coup was planned from the start

Orlais rapes and kills his mom... and rape and kill his dog. He then John Wicks them out of the country.

It made it out 😂

Really, what happened to Maric? I've looked it up, checked reddit, DA Wiki discord, no one has an answer for me. Where do I find this information?

If Loghain survives, he's referred to as the Highest Ranking Warden still alive in the South. Would it stand to reason that if Loghain lives past Adamant, he'd be marked the Warden Commander of Orlais(or Ferelden)?

Best Dragon Age character, long live warden commander Loghain Mac Tir

The strangest part of this retelling is Morrigan being called a "young woman." Most powerful witch in the game. I can't even.

Could loghain be considered an anti hero?

oh my God I didn't know you could have Loghain....lie with... Morrigan to produce an OGB. that's so disturbing and creepy and CURSED lol

I argue the best central villain in the franchise, at least, until the Dreadwolf himself in the next game

Does anyone know what happens if you save Loghain and make Alistair marry Anora while in an Alistair Romance?

Honestly, Logain was the most sane and intelligent character in the story, both pre Origins and in the game. The game makes him seem bad at the beginning, but at Ostagar he saved the army from further loss

This is such a minor thing but I think you're pronouncing Montsimmard wrong. You're saying it like "Mon-tissi-mar", but it should be more like "Mon-zi-mah". Great video though!

So Loghain character is heavily inspired by William Wallace

I can’t even really fault Loghain.

Traitor, glad I blew you into meaty chunks (fought him as an Arcane-Warrior Mage and beat him of course!)...put Alistair on the throne with Anora (don't like her, but frankly Alistair alone would probably run it into the ground...note: Alistair and Anora probably will not have kids, because she's like barren and he is a warden so significantly less fertile anyway!)

I always let Alistair duel Loghain.

Huh I didn't know his last name was Mac Tir. I guess he is kinda a wolf. 🤔

Never let Loghain live in my playtroughs. Alistair my best buddy, gotta kill Loghain always. Funny cause I kinda have a little more simpathy for Loghain, just because now I know he had a dog and that he really loved his dog. 😭

EEEEEEEEEE