The only V5 automobile engine to reach production was the 2.3 L (140 cu in) "VR5" engine manufactured by Volkswagen from 1997 to 2006. Based on Volkswagen's VR6 engine, the VR5 was a narrow-angle engine with staggered cylinders (three cylinders on one bank and two on the other) sharing a single cylinder head.[3] As per the VR6 engine, the angle between the banks was 15 degrees. Initial versions used 2 valves per cylinder, however, an update in 2000 resulted in a total of 4 valves per cylinder and the addition of variable valve timing.
What a video, thank you! Hey how's it going? I'm from Russia, I really like your videos and I'd love to spend some time making subtitles so that my friends and other non-English speaking petrolheads could enjoy it and gain some really decent knowledge. Could you please enable that exact feature so that people could submit their translations?
Great video!!! I just wanted to add, that Honda had V3 engine as well, and it was 2stroke. Bike looked very similar to VF400F, so I assume it was made in late 70s or early 80s. Will be perfect if you can make video for it. Thank you once again!!!
This was the engine that unintentionally cemented Rossi's legacy. Rossi left for Yamaha to prove that it wasn't just the bike... but the RC211V was just a stellar bike in that sweet spot right after 2-strokes ended.
My brain hurts...but I fucking love this...I haven't seen any other videos that goes this deep in detail about one of the most iconic engines ever made...Thank U D4A
@@MR_IC i know my answer won't be very detail but. All of those engines comes from Toyota A series engine. 4A-GE is the normal engine used in corolla with many variations including the 20V black top. 7A-GE is a mix of 7A-FE bottom (the block and crank usually) with 4A-GE head (head and piston). I believe they do this because 4A-GE head can deliver more air and fuel compared to 7A-FE head. This result in a 1.8L engine with exceptional performance on bottom and high rpm. The highest number of A series engine is 8A. 9A-GE is a combination of 7A-FE, 4A-GE and some parts from 1ZZ or 2ZZ engine. Hence why it is not very popular, although it is much more powerful and on paper it can output power and torque close to a K20A from FD2R. 7A-GE and 9A-GE are not official from Toyota, both of them are made by consumers or tuners.
@@ryanbeck4826 There's nothing about the VR5 to make a guy's brain hurt... It's basically an inline 5 cylinder with every other piston 7.5° offset from vertical. Nothing special there at all. If your brain hurts thinking about the VR5, you need to give up on engines.
Honda and Suzuki built V3 engines before, Suzuki didn’t use theirs because of a rule change but Honda used V3 engine in the NS400r roads bike and the NS500 before the V4. Good video, you do an excellent job of explaining complicated principles
This is a variation of the trick Honda did with their 52 degree vee twin engines. The crankpins are offset 76 degrees. (76/2)+52= 90 degrees. They have a 232 degree firing order but emulate the balance of a 90 degree vee.
When MotoGP switched from two to four stroke engines, minimum weights were based on number of cylinders. Twins, triples, fours, and six cylinders all had different minimums. I read somewhere that Honda wanted to use a V6, but it would have to be too heavy.
Yes that's right, if my memory is correct it was a 10kg jump between 2 cyl and 4cyl and the same again between 4cyl and 6cyl. I believe that was the thinking of Aprillia's ill-fated 3cyl "cube" GP bike, it could run at twin cyl minimum weight.
Somehow opportune: Old saying goes " what you carry in your head doesn't weight on your shoulders" . In this case it had almost a 60% efectivity from the start ..in real life.👍
correct. Honda always coming up with crazy ways to take advantage of rules. Honda wanted to make a V8 4 stroke to compete with 2 strokes of the same displacement to avoid giving in to making a two stroke (kind of like how they made a 6 cylinder 20,000 rpm 250 cc in the 60s, Honda had up to that point in the early 80s never made a 2 stroke roadracer) so they came up with an oval piston v4 since 8 cyl weren't allowed and oval piston allowed the valve area more equal to that of an equivalent 8 cyl. It had competitive power but reliability issues and so they finally gave in and made a 2 stroke and won a title with their first 2 stroke 500 cc RC.
Nice job on explaining a very complex engine. I'm an old motor mechanic, I'd heard of the glossed over fact that the Honda V5 used the extra cylinder to balance the other cylinders, but hearing the engineering behind it certainly makes your head spin 🙂👍
4:03 This is the golden rule for engine balancing, primary forces and couples are (always, in theory) "averaged out" so that they are "circular" (equal in magnitude in the horizontal and vertical directions).
I think you should have been an engineer, hahaha. Designing the world's first cross 7 engine. Just do it. It's awesome how having watched most of your videos leading up to this, I either already understand principles you're going to discuss or know what you're going to talk about before you get to the next subject. You really help people understand all these concepts and that's so amazing. Mad props. On to 1M subs!
I have a Honda ST1100 V4, and BMW r1100rt, Boxer twin. The Honda has better fuel efficiency, HP, torque, and just feels more responsive with less latency and buzz. Now I understand why.
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic I got to ride friend's Ducati 750 Sport in the early '90s and it was the smoothest engine I'd ever experienced. It was a 90 degree design. I recall from my early days in the motorcycling world that the 45 degree v twins from H-D were called "Milwaukee vibrators".
@@whalesong999 Well, luckily, Harley's 45deg engines barely run, so you don't spend too much time being buzzed in your nether-region. 😉 Never understood the appeal. Then again, I have done hundreds of miles in a day, and ran The Tail of the Dragon maybe 5 times. To each their own. 👍 I read a comparison between my two bikes, where they said the boxer was nimble and low center of gravity, while the V4 of the Honda was "turbine in power production and delivery", which I felt was very apt.
@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic Well the biggest reason it has less "buzz" is because it has more cylinders. As for the rest it's explained by completely different engine designs - different cylinder/piston size, different stroke, different engine management system, different valves, different cams, one is even air cooled while the other is water cooled - nothing to do with being a V engine.
@@BigUriel Right, yet, Boxer engines, by design, cancel out balancing issues by their design. So to me, a simpleton, trying to understand why my non-boxer is smoother than my boxer, was not understood. More cylinders helps, IE a boxer 4 (like my Subaru) should (and does) have a smooth power delivery and noticeable lack of buzz and engine noise compared to other engines (like the wife's Chevy I4 engine). This video just explained to me why 90deg engines are smoother than some other designs.
That was one of the most informative and interesting mechanical things I've ever learned, and that's for over 56 years! Very very cool my friend, thank you!
After a great deal of experimentation on British single cylinder and vertical twin 4 stroke engines I found that a balance factor of 62% of the weight of the total number of piston and rod assemblies works best, the weight of the components was measured and that weight was divided by the balance factor then the resultant weight was taken in solder wire that was then wound round each of the big end journals equally then the crank was placed on bearings so that it could rotate freely and holes drilled at the heaviest point until the crank with it's solder wire was in balance
I like Donut Media and other channels for making things more accessible, but I'm often left with more questions than answers. On the other hand, channels like this make me really know why it has to work the way it does, and makes me respect these pieces of engineering for what they actually have to put up with to not only be put on the market, but succeed at its daily tasks and the demands made of it. And then there are the people who wonder why self-driving cars aren't here yet.
😂. I am assuming you meant that people wanting self driving do not appreciate all this as much as we do? It's how I see it, anyway. Then, again, when the postmortem report comes out, they'll only find dirty grease under my fingernails. 👍
I've been a fan of the rc211v long enough that I have a 2008 1000rr in my possession. Your explanation is more thorough and more approachable than any other I've ever seen. Thank you for making this!
such a great video. Im technically minded with an engineering background and found this to be a really good balance of basic vs technical. core concepts explained well, no overthought on irrelevant info and a focus on the basic x,y,z axes well done
Come on ppl, Honda played this game 20 years earlier with a V3 (The NS500) in the 500cc GP championships, with Freddie Spencer taking the championship on the V3 in '83. Each cylinder was ignited every 120 degrees of crankshaft rotation, which meant the explosions were evenly spaced, the two upward cylinders (No.1 and 3) and the downward cylinder (No.2) were angled at 112 degrees. And they did it back then for the same reason: to narrow the package. Honda veteran engineer Shinichi Miyakoshi visited the Dutch TT at Assen in Holland and noted that the fastest of the 350cc GP machines would have qualified on the second row of the grid for the 500cc race. So the concept for the NS500 became one of a compact and light machine with a small frontal area of a 350cc GP racer. But the connection between the V3 and 350cc GP racers is even more pronounced as German manufacturer DKW had employed a V3 in the 1950’s for its 350cc GP racer, something Miyakoshi most certainly knew about. The NS500 also used similar engine architecture to the DKW with two upright cylinders, but unlike the DKW the third cylinder pointed downwards at 112 degrees instead of the more conventional 90 degrees of the DKW. No fast forward 20 years later to the Honda developing the V5 for MotoGP. Guess who then was making the only production V5 in existence? Zee Germans, specifically, VW. Everything is a contact business.
I’ve just discovered your channel, on my third video in a row, thank you, you should be an engineering instructor, I work on jet and prop aircraft as well as classic cars and you have condensed years of engineering comprehension into a few hours, will be following you from here on in 👏
I understand the idea that you have to create an unbalance V4 engine first, but the thing is you obviously have to do so with a v5 in mind (meaning that you have to determine exactly the perfect imbalance of v4 engine you want before you can make it a v5). It really does seem like genius engineering, exactly why I am studying to be a part of this field
I wonder if you could use the same method to add two cylinders instead of one to make a primary balanced v6. I don't know has anyone done that before without using balance shafts or weakening the crankshaft with split pins.
0:49 reading about this engine years ago, I read that the rumors of the 2-cyl bank, thought to be larger in displacement, were designed to have a peak torque RPM slightly lower than the the 3-cyl bank. The 3-cyl bank was thought to have a peak torque maybe 1000 rpm higher. This was thought to give the bike a wider range of peak torque (all high up, as its a racing bike after all). Basically, the thought was it could maintain a wider powerband than a 4-cyl, while still having a higher RPM. Of course this turned out to just be a rumor... but still, an interesting concept.
I have to commend you on what has to be as much conveyed detail possible at the perfect pace! You took a very painful, detail-rich subject And the fast paced worked in the favor in understanding it. I think the fast pace actually aided in comprehending this difficult subject. You did a tremendous job!
Your videos are as good or some times better then EE ...all the 3d work, in depth research, well resumed and packed in a single easy to digest format. I wish you would collaborate with visioracer (to have a sound and story videolink after your technical explanation). Thanks again
@@TheSlowDude I really don’t. Politics for literally thousands of years has hindered and poisoned scientific progress and knowledge. Just because it’s your guy doesn’t mean it’s right. There’s even a video on this Chanel about it with the push for evs.
Fantastic. Allegedly one of the driving forces for this layout and the V3 two stroke was to have the narrow end of the motor accommodate the riders legs when tucked in. Honda at their absolute innovative best.
What a load of rubbish. You do realize that on the V triple two stroke, the area next to the rear cylinder on both sides is used to run the exhaust expansion chambers from the front two cylinders through, right? Which makes the back end of the engine virtually the same width as the front?
The vfr1200f and X have the same principle with the rear cylinders connected to the middle of the crankshaft and the front pair to either end making the rear of the engine much narrower.
Thank you so much for this. I know I'm gonna watch it a few times to really get it but your explanation is very good. Kenny Roberts team also worked with a V5 I think based on the 211V format.. it was certainly one of the most interesting engines and I remember back in the day it was like the Valentino Rossi show Starring the V5 Honda and the rest of the crowd racing for second place.
I have a master's degree in mechanical engineering and my best grade is at the study subject piston engines. Your explanation is just perfect to teach it to everyone. Thank you very much for your work!
I have learned an incredible amount from this channel, and it never stops. I would like a video on different diesel injection systems such as common rail, prechambers, and indirect injection
Whoa, that was really cool. Imma have to watch it 1 or 2 more times to absorb it all though. The only point I got lost was when you were explaining where each force vector for the imbalances came from. You're very good at this!
All that without even going in to the firing order, which basically concentrated the power pulses in order to enable the rear tyre to regain grip momentarily between them. The actual design may be shrouded in secrecy, but I am sure someone like Allen Millyard will be building one in his backyard shed as we speak with just a box of leftover engine parts, a hacksaw, and a swiss army knife.
Hey thanks for the great video man, I enjoyed your explanation and your technical style animations really help with getting a grasp on what's happening. I love Honda's engineering! Keep the good stuff up mate :)
I am gettin a sneaky suspition that only racing teams and Japanese companies know how to actually make engines... Amazing explanation and tbh Ive been looking for alternatives to ur channel but didnt find anyone who can explain and show it as clearly as you can, kudos my man.
Sorta- but what Ducati did with their Desmo valve opening can really only be replicated by pneumatic valve systems. Rumours of 20,000 rpm engine speeds from mechnical valve opening is crazy. II've
Your videos blow my mind, I very often have to skip back a bit because my brain simply couldn't take the information in fast enough, great stuff again 👌👍.
Massive thanks to you for the explaining. I really really wonder and was so many question about this odd engine especially when I see how crazy is the exhaust (in 2006 rc211v) are be arranged and was badass style. How cool is that
Not only are you a mechanical genius, you remind me of Kevin Cameron from my old motorcycle magazines, a man who could explain in layman terms how things work. You do have the advantage of CG video for the visual function, but you still have what it takes to explain it so I can understand. Another great video, young man!
I think Kevin still writes, but man, when I got the bike bug in the 1990s my parents got me Motorcyclist and Cycle World subscriptions for Christmas and Kevin Cameron for Cycle World and and Gordon Jennings for Motocyclist were superb technical writers for a teenager on his way to majoring in mech engineering like I was.
Only you can make such a complicated matter interesting AND fun to watch, I'm fuzzy all over. Thanks for all the effort you put in your video's! Only downside; I am never again going to buy a piston engine, anything but pistons for me... and no, not electric but a rotary engine... 🙂
Every time your videos come up on my feed, I meditate for an hour and open a bottle of wine. It's an assault on the brain, but they are incredibly insightful. Thank you for educating us.
Fantastic video, as usual. Next would like to know more about combustion chamber design and intake valve its size, timing, lift etc and how all these factors does affect on engine torque development. Along with it, What's swirl and tumble and their significance. Everything related to it plz try to include and explain it.
For intake valve size... NA engine has a bigger valve to maximize vacuum along with a swirl system to mix the air fuel properly. With a higher valve lift, you can increase entry/exit size further reducing load during vacuum. The exhaust valve can be small as the gas is being positively pushed out by the returning piston. Combustion chamber designs can be designed for non interference or bigger/smaller compression ratio and proper flame propagation. Theres also a different combustion chamber for diesels. The other one that uses indirect injection has a small swirl chamber that tries to mix injected diesel with air. It has mostly lower noise levels than the direct injection but it can't beat modern commonrail direct injection that injects multiple times to emulate swirl while the piston climbs up during compression.
I've always considered myself pretty intelligent when it comes to understanding mechanical devices, but you're on a whole other level. The fact that you figured this out based on the patent application kinda blows my mind. You gave a wonderful explanation as well of course (as usual). Thank you!
I just watched the NR oval piston video and loved it! That's why I'm watching this one....obviously! LOL! I simply applaud your format and story telling abilities with the passion you have for tech, history, and your audience. This was just a very refreshing gem to find at 8am in the morning after back surgery! Thank you! Oh, if you have any T-Shirts laying around, needing a home in return for some marketing and advertisement (my Facebook group car audio followers watch & buy what I recommend), I would greatly appreciate it! I'm starting a RU-vid video series for car audio and one of my "gimmicks" will be wearing the shirts of every channel I support EXCEPT mine! LOL! Thank you!
Thank you for the support man. You wouldn't believe it but the shirt on me is the only one I have. I outsourced all the merch ever since covid ruined international shipping. I used to ship myself but stuff started not arriving so I gave up.
260 hp from 990 cc....sweet Jesus. I would put 2 together. Flip the second ending so the piston per side is the same. 540hp for 2000 cc. Under 500 lbs. Then turbo it...900hp...Mic drop.
I was so puzzled when I learned that there was a championship caliber engine with a V5 configuration. It blew my mind away. I am a huge VR46 fan, so I knew. Love your videos my friend, I also loved the one you did about the Yamaha engine. Have a nice day, greetings from Greece.
holy crap, imagine the excitement when the team discovered that con rod's internal leverage trick at 75.5 degrees. Like finding hidden horsepower at the crack of the whip if that makes sense.
This video proves 2 things:- 1. The presenter is pretty smart - understands the topic and gives a clear explanation; 2. You can't rely in Wikipedia and like services.
Absolutely interesting and very well explained. Very good graphic animation. I'd like to see this about the Ford V4 with 60deg., which was in Production in Germany in the 60th., like in the smaller Taunus, 12m, and 70th, ( 17m, Consul V4, Transit MK1 etc). These V4 sounded always a bit "ill" to me. ( despite they earned their nickname "Marathon".
I'm a not a simpleton but this punches above my pay grade. I was cutting math classes and skipping school in the 70's. It comes back to bite you the rest of your life. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
great video as always, i had no problem understanding this and enjoy these types of videos and have worked with tons of engineers and have technical/mechanical background, lines been good, i love these odd spec engines, i could see the Ducati engineers laughing at Honda, they're an arrogant bunch of nuts and Honda said simply hold my beer and went to work and built this awesome engine and watched Ducati pick their jaws up off the floor, I just love it Like when the V4 car engine was built by Ford, I don't know if they were the inventors of it, they used back in the day and was fairly successful and reliable for smaller lightweight vehicles and still see a Saab running around with one in it and its pretty smooth, like an inline 5 CYL Audi/VW used them and Volvo used them when they brought out the 850 series cars cars in 1992 and here in Canada in 1994 and remember driving a base 4DR with a 5 spa manual and that thing ripped for a new model car and got amazing fuel economy, 1st customer said as good as 6.85/7.3 litres/100kms that was really good for that year in the 90's for a big car for Volvo and the natural intake sound was awesome, in 2000 when then used VVT on both intake and exhaust, the V70 N/A 5 speed auto would get almost 1000kms to a tank of petrol, great cars, and great video 👍
That Ford V4 that Saab used was originally designed in the US for a small car called the Cardinal that was cancelled before production. Ford built the Falcon instead, but the engine was used by Ford in Germany in the Taunus and others. It was not, however, a 90-degree vee but 60-degree with a four-throw crank, so it did not have perfect primary balance. It relied on a balance shaft. It was built in capacities ranging from 1.2 to 1.7 litres and fitted to a range of vehicles. Most contemporary reviews found it pretty unimpressive. Ford UK repeated the error with the Essex V4s of 1.7/2.0l (Transit van, which was so boomy that the tradies did not notice the engine vibrations) and matching 3.0l V6 for the Zodiac and then the Capri. For all its deficiencies, some of the V6s lasted long enough for owners to replace the awful V8s in their Triumph Stags with Essex V6 that came either from rusted Zodiacs or crashed Capris.
Just another evidence that Japanese people have completely different set of mind! Dude! Majority of your vids often just blow my mind opening completely new horizons! Thank you for your job! How is your rapping carrier going btw?
Thank you very much for this video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK got on my first bike about 35 years ago. Know a bit about engines and bike geometry (I have made my own Stainless Steel frame FROM SRATCH). never fully understood Honda's V5 engine JUST new it works. I have just watched this video twice! First time it was like "THIS MAKES SENCE!!! I THINK" So I watch it again but did stop it a few time to think about what you said (never believe anything from the internet unless I have many sources) and you are the only person I have seen that has done a video on the Honda's V5 engine. NOW I sort of understand it I would like one to have a play and ride it like I have stolen it ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU VERY MUCH
Thanks for adding the comment about the Volkswagen V5 engine. I was about to say "Yeah, but what about VW" then decided to complete the video and see if you mentioned it. You did 😊
That's absolutely fantastic engineering. Thank you so much for telling us about it so clearly. The only thing that saddens me is the patent application, which strikes me as trying to own mathematical calculations or at least a result. Of course in the US this is certain to be granted, but that's another story.
What an amazing video. I've been looking for how this engine works for ages. So balance wise this is pretty genious, because it's like a v4, but with a narrower angle and without a rocking couple. So the primary balance is absolutely perfect. However, you didn't really touch on secondary balance. Does it also have perfect secondary balance because of that odd 75,5° bank angle?
Yes, that's a very important observation, because the rods are stacked the way they are there's no rocking couple. Secondary is very close to v4 but I think it's only slightly worse in terms of secondary balance than a v4, probably irrelevant. We have two at TDC, so that's two forces up, two at maximum velocity, so that's two forces down, and the odd cylinder a bit past max velocity so that's another force down-ish.... So not two up two down like the v4. The v angle is different too so they again don't fully cancel out, just like in the v4, but they're also not perpendicular to each other, which should work a bit in favor of the v5. But all of this is hair splitting, the secondary balance is smallish anyway l, especially on a 990cc thing with tiny pistons (tinnier than a v4 mind you, maybe they're the same overall for secondary) and it's overall miles ahead of a flat plane inline 4.
I think the crank pin arrangement gives perfect secondary balance. The crankpins are mirrored on the crank with the outer cylinders on the same bank. There also will not be any rocking motion from this either.
@@d4a Okay that makes sense. So overall the V5 is a pretty cool engine, but it's pretty expensive I guess. You can't use the same heads or even head covers for both banks, they are all unique. So it's fine for a race engine, but unfortunately we'll likely never see one for the street.
If I had the job of running or focusing teams on projects in an RnD department for a major like Honda, Yamaha, Ford or any large company with a significant budget I would quietly but aggressively have a team working on the Rotary Vein engine man. This design is so perfect in many ways. Your content on this proposed design is really great. I'd like a follow-up if anything ever comes about of it.
I have watched your engine and boost schools and now it's so easy to visualise the inner workings of an engine that o use these videos as ASMR to go to sleep
I always feel joy watching your videos because of how fluently you explain so incredibly complex topics so simply and clearly that is really,actually understandable
Honda is not just supreme in getting most hp out of small engines. but they are also very clever designers of brakes, chassis and suspensions. i once had a civic and while using the breaks the vehicle was just stemming itself against the road with all 4 tires, lowering itself as a whole and pressing itself to the ground instead of tipping over the front as most vehicles do. a behavior i have never seen this way so accurate and balanced on any vehicle, not even on an audi TT or a mercedes SL or a BMW 325 all of them I once owned.
Fantastic and interesting explanation for this V5. Honda has always been the best at studying misalignments of V- engine connecting rods to eliminate vibrations. See the Transalp- Africa Twin and many other models with V 52° with connecting rods staggered at 72°.
The V5 took advantage of the rules at the time that gave the same minimum weight as a V4, and at the time a larger amount of fuel was allowed for all sizes (26L or 24L, can't recall). This allowed the thirstier but more powerful V5 to be so competitive. As the max fuel load was progressively lowered it made it less advantageous, although Hayden winning the championship in its final year showed how good the basic bike was at that point. Also don't discredit the tire rules at the time, Michelin would make special tires per Rossi's liking (and a few other riders) and actually fly them to the track between Friday practice and Sunday race. A big advantage for Repsol Honda that was banned later in the decade. Bridgestone was good at some tracks and terrible at others, any rider on 'stones had little chance at the title.
I had to "rewind" a few times in the first half part of the video, to be able to follow with all the physics and geometry explications. It hurts a little right now, but I'm proud of my self 😅I did manage to understand. At least, I think so 🤓 As always, you have the talent to make very complicated things, a little more understandable for us, the usual mortals 🤠 Thanks, yet again 🙋
Intuitively, the way a v5 should work would be like a 3 cylinder inline and a parallel twin attached to one crank shaft. In some of the animations at the beginning it looked a little bit like that.
Great video. Appreciate you also linking the video from driving 4 answers. He’s got some really great videos. One sorta related to this one if anyone is interested is: MIND BOGGLING ENGINE GEOMETRY - Rod Ratio Explained
once i saw it, couldn't unsee it... that v5 is genius... thanks for this explanation which has also helped me out with my project v4 engine... please do a video on roller crank bearings like in the Honda s600... thank you...
Nicely done. Animations are explanatory while not being overly complex. Same with formulas and such, show the reasoning behind the design without getting your viewers lost in the details.
I love watching you explain shit, I've been in the car internet thing for so long that there is almost nothing new, but you can make me feel dumb bro, I love it.
And it's narrower and higher performance due to a greater piston speed than the common 90 or 60 degree v blocks. The ICE is going out now, but if we had this 20 years ago it would be everywhere.
