Logic Pro: Session Players and AI 

First, I think these “AI” tools are good for learning. Generate some parts, listen to them, analyze them, reshape them to suit your tastes. Then, one can look at this as fun and entertaining - for many people, more fun than trying to compose music from scratch - not everyone is that creative or even cares to compose their own music. And if you’re a instrumentalist rather than a Beethoven, you’ve got a backing band at your beck and call. In the old days, we wrote music for a band of some kind, and with general directions, relied on or allowed the rhythm section to play their individual parts. It’s only today that composers/arrangers feel they must control every aspect of the music. To me, Logic session players are similar, but I have much more control over them than years ago. Convert to MIDI, and the control is whatever I want it to be. Ultimately, people will do what satisfies, and use whatever tools are available to reach that end. If AI becomes boring or isn’t making music that is personal and inspires, then it will be abandoned or used in more limited ways by creative types wanting better.

I don’t think the majority of your followers will use these tools as our main tools Jono. As a drummer myself I could hate people using the Logic drummer, but I don’t. But then since being a drummer, I struggle quite a bit with keys … having these tools and knowing that I can get a much better starting point with the sessions players, I will most certainly use them . Knowing that I can tweak every single note by tapping P and also use the midi input from my keyboard for chords I have ‘found on my own”. It will hopefully save me lots of time to be creative rather than struggling technically with the instruments I don’t master.

A large part of the process when I'm making my particular brand of music is having those "Happy accidents". Things that technically shouldn't work or clash. I can't see any AI being able to do this - nor would I want it to. It's my creation and my private revelation. As always, enjoy these videos and the discussion. Cheers!

Jono.... I needed to hear all of this mate... I've been editing instead of creating for a long time... Time to change... 🙂

I’m a singer songwriter comfortable with an acoustic guitar and basic music theory. I have depended heavily on logic drummer and composed rudimentary bass lines on midi with standard logic instruments usually upright bass. Similar with keys according to my chord structures etc. the session bass instrument options takes me to a new level with slide notes, slap and growl effects and the player knows bass lines that I don’t so I am very happy with it with careful editing. Same with the keys. Creative impulses hopefully still intact!

Hi Jono, Thank you very much for this very useful video! You started a very valuable discussion! I completely agree with your thoughts about AI. It is fine with me that there are now session players for keys and bass, but I will never use these. Until now I sometimes used the drums that Logic provides and the simple reason for that is that I am not a drummer and - if I was - I haven't the tools and the space to record real drums. Music making for me is all about creativity, exploring new territories in music, sometimes creating my own samples, making harmonies myself, sometimes getting lost in the process and therefore deleting recorded tracks and starting all over again because the result didn't satisfy me, etc. As always, thank you very much!!

Great video, Jono, about a contentious feature! For me, art is an indulgent form of expression. A moment of one particular person's experiences at that particular moment in time. AI is, obviously, not that! But if someone is using it for rehearsing or practicing I can definitely see the benefits of it.

Great video, Jono. I agree with your commentary. Whilst I’ve found the session drummer to be a lazy way for me to get a quick beat going (with the intention of going back later and doing the drums properly from scratch), these AI tools remind me of my family’s first organ when I was a kid. It came with various rhythms that were a gimmicky way to play along with something like a bossanova. The more we rely on this stuff for composition, the lazier we get and we lose all sense of creativity. What’s the point of that? It’s boring if nothing else. Perhaps the best we can do, as you’ve already demonstrated is to do some magic with the tiny building blocks and make something new out of that. Otherwise, if I could delete these session players from Logic and get back precious memory then I would in a heartbeat.

you are absolutely correct! even tho i am a good guitarist, a pretty good singer, a passable bass player, a minimal keyboard player, i'm going to spend the next 5 years learning to play the piano, then 5 years learning violin, then 5 years learning trumpet, then 5 years learning viola, then 5 years with a vocal coach. i'm a terrible drummer, so i'll have to use drummer. after that, i'll be able to start my own creations. note that i'm 75 years old presently so i should be able to make my own creations when i'm 95! let's get started! so what you assume is that everyone is a multi instrumentalist!

100% agree with your comments . Does an individuals creativity come from the soul and heart , I know mine does .

There's a limitation to everything, The session player is for people who don't know music theory or the details but want something to assist or jump start. They are many tools out there that act like A.I and also assist people with their creativity before the session player came along like Splice and Scaler, all are tools to make creating music quicker (maybe not the best quality) and easier for more people

As a guitarist I’ve certainly found the Logic drummer to be very useful and customisable. Although I’ve taught myself some keyboard chords, I’m not very proficient at playing for a number of bars without making a mistake. I’ve yet to experiment with using the session keyboard or bass player for a guitar based composition, because I’ve found the Logic chord function clunky. They could prove be useful for getting the creative juices flowing once the chords have been put into place, or for complimenting an existing composition, if used carefully. Having said that I do agree with your observations regarding using the session musicians for creating an entire track. I’m guessing that the session musicians will be useful for folk who haven’t learned to play an instrument, or who perhaps are unable to play an an instrument, due to a disability.

Extremely well reasoned point of view Jono that I would echo. What interests me is why with such a major update did the makers of Logic decide to follow this route? I've always looked upon Logic as a professional piece of software that has almost limitless creative potential. Perhaps it's just me being a little outdated and a composer who still uses a pencil and manuscript, but isn't this a wasted opportinuty from the programmers? There is also the unerving question of what comes next in terms of AI 'creative' options and what challenges they will present to the world of education?

I use it for songs I've already written on a guitar, then go bar by bar for Drummer.Then record the whole guitar.Vocal then add bass and keyboards. Haven't used the keyboard or bass session players yet.Because my mates play those.

Brilliantly put!

Thanks for the update 😃

I've been using the chord track to help produce musical compositions. The latest uses some "strange" chords that Logic AI does not use!! B flat 7/9, Gm 7/9/13, G aug 7/9, G7/9/13 are just some of them. The chord sequences generated straight out of the box are basic and need a lot of work to get them to sound anything like a finished work. Also, once the chord structure has been produced, it can be "dragged" onto a midi track, which can be used to add different instruments beyond the piano that Logic gives you as a starter. Some of the "synth" sounds that I have produced are starting to sound interesting. Yes, the AI tools are in Logic, as you said, are OK for producing backing tracks, but creativity comes from using the chord track. In addition, if you have a MIDI keyboard, you can generate chords on the keyboard and input those into the chord track. In essence, this takes away using the AI tools that Logic comes with and introducing your own creativity.

Another very good video thank you, and once again informative and well-said. From my own perspective, sometimes I open Logic with the sole intention of playing with / creating sound, and other times my focus is composition. If you add these Session Players as another tool to knock around some basic building-block ideas, this adds another option to your available choices for the day. Having all these choices is a good thing to get a musical ball rolling, but only a self-penned composition really hits the bullseye, IMHO.

This video is a hopeful response to my desire and confusion about doing creative work as we enter the age of artificial intelligence. Thank you Jono.

I think I basically agree with this. Though I feel a bit hypocritical for basically having not at all cared about the drummer, to then being quite put out by the keyboard and bass players... Maybe it comes back to jono's point around composition - I use the drummer to make beats for songs that I've already "written" from a melodic point of view.

I don't see how it's meaningfully different than a sample pack. I generally don't use those, but this feels more like I'm in control and making custom sounds. Also, you don't just have to let the robot do everything. You can use it for inspiration, to craft new sections/fills and then modify them yourself.

2:20 "Smallen? Always making up words on this channel" 😂 👍🏻

I feel I still spend a lot of time experimenting with Logic. I feel it’s really the only way to learn, in the end. There was a moment setting out with AI SI I felt it was pretty much the same as any facet of Logic; listening and twiddling knobs until I understood and found things I liked. But there’s also a point after that where I start feeling annoyed at the limitations, start a new instrument, and do it myself. Honestly, I am glad I do. Because I do agree with JoBu’s sentiment that there is joy in the exploration and discovery. Maybe it was a jumping off point. I wish it wasn’t. I think there’s something insidious about it. It appeals to my laziness. Which honestly isn’t new with LPX11, because composing drum is a bit of a weak spot for me and the AI drummer has been there for a bit already. Also also, I generally try not to listen to music when I am in the creation mode, and working with the AI SI feels more like listening and judging rather than making. Also^3, I enjoy the philosophical vibe of this video, but I also miss the creative input. Have spent some time messing with the AI SI, trying to mess it up with various trimming and plugins and what have you… This wore on a bit. I yield my time😛

As a beginner producer and a big fan of yours, AI is definitely scary in ways that aid companies to make more money. I was checking out an original techno adjacent Spotify playlist a couple days ago and weirdly enough all the songs sounded the exact same, so I investigated and my suspicion was right on. They were pretty much all AI-made. Which got me wondering why Spotify would allow something like this on their platform but then it hit me lol. I guess the only positive side of this is that they weren’t particularly good and sounded like one big 30-40 minute song, but unfortunately it will get better with time. I can see how this can spill into the music making process itself and I urge people to use their creative minds a bit more but I’m way more concerned with people just bypassing this process altogether.

Oooh, I think this video will get lots of comments. Don’t mention the war 😂 My own take, I play guitar , bass and keys (badly) and wouldn’t dream of using the session keyboard or bass players when I have the ability to play myself. When it comes to session drummer my opinions differ, I typically synch the drummer to my bass, tweak the sliders till I like what I’m hearing, then convert to midi and tweak, particularly finessing fills. I’d then process the bejaysus out of them (parallel comp/ verb, eq, comp) to make them sound authentic. I think this application is ok given I don’t have a kit at home. But each to their own I suppose. I hope people have the intelligence to not just use stock presets, even the 3 tracks you demo’s just sounded off, I can’t put my finger on it.

I like to add a bit of free playing session piano for background accents and seasoning, low in the mix, and that's it. I have built a few songs with this tool and it comes out boring, not from a compositional standpoint, (experimenting with chords that i don't have to play in with my clumsy mitts is very inspirational) but the sessions player itself, no matter how you tweak it, is very vanilla and samey-same and I end up either replacing with my own musicianship (poor but mine) or scrapping the project and keeping the bits I invented; lyrics, guitar, chord progs or whatever I liked). I might still use it to see how things sound as a band, but I'd never present any of it as my work. It's way too boring.

Nailed it. I totally agree with your video.

True words!!!!

Ok Jono, you asked what I think! and presumably that includes what I don’t think … The Emperors New Clothes! 1) I don’t think this is AI at all, how it got that title bemuses me and yet almost everyone seems to be calling it AI. I can only think it is a ploy by Apple to do what they enjoy doing most i.e. making more and more profit. 2) Surely AI would be telling your computer what you want to hear as a composition and then executing that with a simple command. Sort of akin to the art / visual AI apps. So I think this addition to Logic Pro is just another step in automated rhythm and harmony creation, albeit slightly more versatile and sophisticated than previous incarnations. It should definitely not be cited as AI. 3) I have started using this new feature, not as a composition tool but as an additional ideas pool to potentially add to my compositions. I find it fascinating as such, to quickly throw musical ideas into my work which are completely outside/beyond my musical instrument abilities. Some I use, by twisting editing and shaping them to suit or throw away as not irrelevant. Either way, this method is proving expedient. 4) I think, in the not too distant future, we will be hearing compositions that we don’t know were created with these sort of tools or not and especially more so when AI is properly implemented. Even these tools now open up a huge potential for experimentation and if combined with personalisation will potentially render impressive results. I like your videos and presentation style and was pleased to see you ventured into this topic but surely it must be time to admit this is not really AI at all! 😮

Great video and I agree with your points. I feel that, unfortunately, these tools will be used in place of the creative process, they'll be used, knowingly or not, to forward the process of what I feel is the "safe" approach within the music industry right now. In my opinion, a lot of what is released in the pop/music world is disposable, repetitive and mediocre and I don't see any indications that this approach might be disrupted, these tools propagate this safe approach to mediocrity. That doesn't mean I think everything is futile, the creative process can take many shapes and forms and the feeling of discovery is amazing and as artists we won't allow that to be lost or. These are tools that can be useful, but in the grand scheme of things they should be kept "smallen"! Thanks Jono.

For all my homies cowering in the corner when they hear “ai” in Logic Pro: The session players don’t feel like “ai” to me at all. Mostly algorithmic changes based on where you place a slider. The follow rhythm of other ideas is cool, but honestly, the session players are extremely limited in terms of what I would WANT to be able to achieve with them. I’ve managed to make some solid basslines with LOTS of changes and work/deliberation with the session bass player for an atmospheric jungle song. I feel like almost everything these session tools were originally designed to make is basically Nickleback Cookie-cutter music. It’s very difficult to slap it on a song and make it induce “rave” vibes, right away. They’re great tools, but they’re tools. I’ve been playing a lot of Elden ring lately, so I’m constantly surrounded by Ai enemies right now 😂 I gotta tell ya, I sense 0 intelligence, artificial or not, going on behind the decision making of how the session players are programmed to work

Thanks so much, but I don‘t think I will use these tools in my compositions except the drummer who/which I always used so far in my music. The composition must always come from me, not from AI or KI (as called in Austria).

This AI stuff is scary yet amazing at the same time. I’ve seen it go from a bunch of hardware strung up with cables to a laptop.. what’s it going to mean to session musicians?

I'll put my hand up and say I use the session keyboard player. Why...because it can "play" a part way better than I can. BUT...I want to be the one to work out the bones of the part. I use Session Player in exactly the way one would use a human session player: "play this chord progression, but play it better than I can."

We were using similar tech in the nineties with a Roland PMA 5. No one went crazy about folk using that, so what’s the difference ? Is it just because we now call it AI? Weird. Anything it gets folk creating songs what does it matter? The next thing you know they’ll be making guitars electric 😳😂

These are not strictly artificial intelligence. They don't create. They are just a very sophisticated way of interacting with pre existing loops through a large set of input parameters. Really no different to what already existed in Drummer. More sophisticated perhaps, but not a paradigm shift. AI is merely a sales pitch here, which perhaps puts off as many people as it turns on. In the end they are just another instrument, another creative tool that you need to learn to play just as much as the mandolin you just got for twenty quid down the second hand shop. The human still creates here. Without your touch the session players are inert and silent as the grave.

Someone with absolutely no musical knowledge, experience or understanding could quite easily make a top 40 hit!

Smallen is the opposite of embiggen

AI may be much, but it’s not creative. I’m a guitarist nowadays. Before that I was a drummer, before that I played the Euphonium, before that I played the cornet. Before that, in the very beginning, I watched my dad literally write music on a piece of paper. The few times I’ve looked into these session features in Logic, I’ve ended up making the entire tracks from scratch, because I want something they can’t and/or won’t give. Wether it’s a rythm pattern, arpeggio, or chords, this technology is failing big time on me. I’m not a virtuoso in any shape or form, but I understand music more than enough to know that AI will never be capable of replacing the good old fashion real life musician in flest and blood. Because ut’s an art form that requires a free mind in order to be shaped. Without a free mind sitting at the helm with both hands placed steady on the wheel, music will sieze to excist.

Also the fourth, I do enjoy telling the stupid AI to get out of the way because I know what I want and how to do it, after fiddling with its knobs for a bit🥴🤷

A lot of music does sound the same, even when played by humans, I won't mention any genres.

First! (Sorry)

Ai should be used with a wize way Human have always make music with passion Ai cant copy passion never. so i stick to the old way to make music my own imagination, but for those who see potensial in Ai and use it in a clever way is ok, i stick to make my own music without use of Ai. .

One more step towards dumbing down Logic. Thanks Apple, but no thanks.

Smallen is the opposite of embiggen