My thoughts after using the Logitech Ergo K860 keyboard for a little over a month. Found this in stock at B&H $129 (as of posting) bhpho.to/3fuGB6l * NOT an affiliate link
The new Microsoft Natural Keyboard is wired, but it is very, *very* good. I previously used the Sculpt until it fell apart :P I've been using a ton of different ergo keyboards over the years.
I've been using the Skulpt keyboard but it sometimes is a bit annoying with the tiny Escape and function keys. And may be it's a problem with only my set up, it does miss a few keystrokes sometimes.
Been using Microsoft's natural keyboards since decades, super-happy with the last installment, the Sculpt. That said, I'm always looking for improvements. Is the K860 really a step-up in comfort? The form factor is bigger, that's a drawback in my ballpark.
thank you! i have been scouring the internet for a thorough, no non-sense review of this keyboard and it was nearly impossible to find. thank you for sharing!
That might be the best compliment I’ve ever gotten on a video! Glad I could help.🙏🙏🙏 That reminds me, I should probably do a “9 months later” follow up. **Spoiler alert - it’s still the best on the market. 😁
@@MichaelJLong you're very welcome! Keep up the good work man! And that's the only spoiler alert I am ok with 🤣🤣🤣 Definitely getting this keyboard now because of your review. Will have to let you know if it works out!
This has been my work keyboard for the past year and it has helped my hands out even though I've had a busy year. Totally recommended. $130 is nothing compared to going through carpal tunnel release surgery. Take care of yourself. Also a nice and quiet keyboard in a cubicle environment.
@@MichaelJLong i ended up buying the microsoft ergonomic keyboard (2019) the one you presented look very good but i wanted something with more key travel (which i find more comfortable to type on)
I bought this when it first came out in January. I love it. I love the fact that it attaches to up to 3 different computers, as well that it uses standard batteries and doesn't force you to have to recharge some permanently place rechargeable batteries. I mean, if you want rechargeable batteries then buy some and keep them recharged. It's a comfortable keyboard. It would've been a perfect keyboard if it had backlighting. Oh well. We can't have it all I guess.
The lack of back-lighting means that your batteries will last longer. I've been using mine for over 10 months now. I'm still on the original batteries.
Grate review. I also have the Microsoft wireless desktop 5000 and I find them to be good quality at an amazing price. I did want something with a split in the middle though. Your review was great because I could tell that a lot of the things that bother me about keyboards bother you lol. I can't stand it when the manufacturers move and redistribute the inster / del / home / end pgup pgdn keys. Put them where they are supposed to go! I use those alll the time. I use the numeric keypad as well. I just got the MX Master 3 and just started using it today. I have a K860 on order. They are expensive but I'm on the computer at least 12 hours a day so that investment is no big deal.
I've been using the Microsoft Natural 4000 for years, but the Logitech looks like a good upgrade. I got a cheap vertical mouse last year, which has made a big difference for me.
I highly recommend it. Had the 4000 for several years. The vertical mouse bewilders me but does seem like a more natural position if you can get used to it.
Nice review! Thanks a lot. Great, that Logitech did a huge improvement in Ergo keyboards. I use MS Sculpt ergo and I really love it. Unfortunately, it doesn't have the possibility to connect it to multiple devices via bluetooth (as K860 does). On the other hand, K860 has a numpad which I don't really like. I have it detached on MS scrulpt ergo, though I don't use it.. sometimes only if I need to enter lot's of numbers. The point is, that the numpad uses extra space on the right side, so either you need to move the keyboard more the to left, either use less space for mouse/trackpad :(
I have been using this keyboard for about less than 10 days now and though it felt strange initially it feels much better now. One thing I didn't like is the wrong assignment of Mac and Windows keys on the left bottom row. I use both a Mac and windows with this and normally you expect Windows\Cmd keys and Alt\Opt keys to be paired, it is like that whatever keyboard I use for Mac\Windows. Here they paired the Opt\Windows and Cmd\Alt. There are some keys that I don't know what for yet and didn't check over the internet at all (and I have been using various keyboards for over 30 years). For example there is a key with a battery icon that doesn't do anything. Probably it should be set in Logitech Options+ but I didn't bother. I already had a unifying receiver for my logitech mouse and this one worked right away connecting to it (nice to have a spare unifying receiver). BTW, if you haven't tried yet, I would strongly suggest using Logitech MX Ergo Trackball as the mouse. Once you use it, you would never want to go back to a regular mouse. (I have been using Microsoft Trackball Explorer for years, as I remember in the first days, or even the first week I was about to give up and return to a plain mouse. Then I got used to it and since then I am using Trackball over regular mouse (or Apple trackpad on Mac - that is a different class of beauty). But I am not a gamer, just a developer.
Two major flaws with this keyboard: 1) The 6/^ key is on the wrong side of the split. The old logitech ergo keyboards had it right, but for some reason, they had a brain-fart and did the same thing as MS when they designed the new one. 2) The legs for raising the wrist rest are fragile. Mine were destroyed before I had the keyboard for two months. Major Pros: 1) The key action is excellent. 2) The whole point of the keyboard, the ergonomics, are excellent. 3) After ten months, I'm still using the original batteries. I have Carpel Tunnel starting up in my right wrist, but since I started using this keyboard, it has been getting better. Yes, I highly recommend this keyboard.
I've only had this keyboard for a couple of weeks and my wrists are already thanking me. I didn't even notice how much strain I was putting on them. The wrist rest is SO comfortable and it only took a few hours to get used to the new layout. The feel of the keys is fantastic and it's perfect for typing. The only thing that bothers me is that I'd gotten used to F5 being the refresh key but the default was programmed differently but that was a minor thing. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? If you type a lot, absolutely.
thanks! Im a programer and Im blind, so I interact with the computer all by the keyboard. Ive been suffering from pain on my wrists. I bought one of this today. Hope it arrives soon. Ps: here in Brazil it costs two eyes and a leg hahaha
I've been using the MS Surface Pro for 3 years. Like that a lot but I'm exclusively on Linux and as MS pointed out to me in a reply to my Amazon review, the Surface is for Surface computers. That said, I like the Surface much better than the prior Sculpt. I used to like the Logitech ergo keyboards before they came out with the Curve and then abandoned the idea in a premium keyboard. I think I'm going to have to try one of these out. Thanks for the review.
@@MichaelJLong Sorry, I get confused by the MS nomenclature on the Surface. I meant that I was using the Surface keyboard, not what I wrote (the Surface Pro). I like that keyboard a lot, but this one looks compelling. I'm actually a several generation Thinkpad user.
I am an avid gamer and I'm currently using the Microsoft Sculpt and I have to say it is totally doable! Once you get used to an ergonomic keyboard of course!
Good point. I have never gotten very good on a keyboard for gaming. I’m curious - Does the Sculpt allow you to link to other receivers? I always wished my other Microsoft keyboard would let me do that.
Nice vid Mate (new suscriber). I'm between this keyboard and microsoft sclupt.... Acually at the beginning i was searching for a mechanical keyboard. Yet, at the end of the day I guess i go for this one.
It’s a great choice. I also looked at the Sculpt but the Logi Unifying capabilities were the big winner here for me. Hope you enjoy yours!! And thank you for the subscribe!
@@MichaelJLong Nothing to thank dude! Is always a pleasure to subscribe to channels that are not crappy content. BTW... have you seen the Crone Keyboard??. Yesterday I came across with it... (I'm a developer, not a gamer) so, I decided to go for the Crone Keyboard. (totally different target yet amazing too)
@@MichaelJLong neither do I, and I found that it's super duper customizable... For example if you enable caps lock, you can activate all led lights of a same colour in all keyboard, or just half of it... Also pulse effects on every key stroke you make... Anyhow... Allows to customize or add plenty of features.
Great review! New subbie. You're review has influenced me to go for it but I have reservations. 1. I love mechanical keyboards. The chiclet keys remind me of the laptop keyboards. 😭😭😭 2. Travel. I always take my mechanical keyboard with me. I'm afraid this bad boy will be a pain to transport. Decisions, decisions , decisions. I don't know what to do.
I'm kinda disappointed about the number pad. I'm a very small person and the mouse feels so far away with a regular full-size keyboard. I love to have a number pad as well but I would like it to be on the left side of the keyboard, so my mouse to be closer for better comfort and also have the full access on a number pad.
I also prefer to have my number pad on the left. I never tried it but I always end up ignoring it when I use spread sheets. I feel like I would be comfortable using my left hand for numbers and my right hand for the arrow keys. The Microsoft ergonomic keyboard has a separate wireless numpad, if I'm not mistaken. You could place that to the left. But I really prefer Logitech and I also like their unifying technology. The price on this keyboard hurts though.
I have the MS Sculpt. The typing experience is nice but the mouse is way too bulky and round. When I first had it, I wasn't used to such a "tall" mouse so I often ended up knocking it off my desk. I use that keyboard/mouse combo on my work laptop and home PC and had to constantly plug and unplug the usb receiver to switch over. So much so that it got worn out (after 1.5 yrs) and the plastic broke off with the metal piece stuck in my usb port (had to use a tweezer to remove). Contacted MS asking to buy a replacement receiver but was told that once the receiver is lost/broken, you have to buy a new set and mine isn't under warranty because it is "physically damaged". So I immediately ordered this keyboard as a replacement. I also picked up a Logitech mouse since I like the idea of unified receiver. Never again will I buy a MS keyboard again.
Some may see the price tag as a con but the way I think about it is that it could prevent damage to your hands/wrists therefore avoiding doctor appointments (copays, prescriptions, physical therapy or etc). So in a way one could argue that you save money? just my 2 cents lol.
Loved the review style, thank you very much for helping me decide on the keyboard! Is the mouse you mentioned at the beginning of the video an ergonomic one as well or do you recommend another one? Thanks!
I connect my MX Master Mouse by bluetooth, it's never failed me and lets me take adavantage of the switch button, since I'd need to switch it between my work and personal machine quite often.
Thank you so much for your review... Ive just bought the keyboard... Would you know whats the best option for saving battery? Either bluetooth or the USB included in the keyboard?
Happy I could help! I’ve used it daily with both over the last year and I’m still on the original batteries. I think you’ll have good results either way. 👍🏻
I have a MS Natural 4000. Is it worth upgrading? Seems the keys have less movement which looks easier to type on. I wish it was backlit but you can't have everything :) Thanks for the review.
Do you still use the keyboard? Do the keys _"shine"_ at all from fingertip oil (like the old keyboard you showed)? I read somewhere that this keyboard uses PBT plastic instead of ABS and PBT is supposed to be more resistant to it. Thanks for the review
Using your own batteries is always preferred. Internal, non-replaceable lithium batteries will wear out after a few years. Keep a stable of Eneloops for remotes, keyboards, etc and charge your own. Glad you didn't spend time explaining how this is a "con" like some.
It does seem simpler to be able to insert your own batteries. You’re right - recharging your own is probably the best of both worlds. Might have to try that on the kids’ Xbox controllers. 😉
Looks nice. Right now I'm using a cheap Logitech Y-U0009. In my case, one of these days I'd like to get something without the keypad area because it's often taking up mouse space. Normal keyboards feel so... non-symmetric. ;D I'd like to try a mechanical keyboard, but only if there is one that doesn't make much noise. Not sure how people stand the clanking of those.
Same here on wanting to try mechanical but not liking the noise. People get really serious about those things! I always have to have a number pad. But you bring up and interesting point about symmetry - I wonder if one on the left side would work better...
@@MichaelJLong I think that the solution present in MS Sculpt is the best option - to have numpad, but separate. At least it looks smart, as I have never used this keyboard. It alows you to put it wherever you want. And I would love if K860 had it, as all other features match my needs.
K860 - palm rest Material ?? Is it easy to wipe of dirt easily without damaging the palm rest material. If it is cloth, then for this price, this keyboard is over priced. Cloth type material will wear out very soon. Also - keyboard design - How easy is it to clean the keyboard. For example the current keyboard i have, if i drop small food paricles in between the keys space, then i can easily flip upside down and shake slighly wwhich will get the dry food particle outside again ? Can you confirm these 2 please ?
Catching up on comments! I'm posting a long term review and will show the palm rest. It has held up well and can be cleaned off with a wet towel. I had a small piece of dirt get under the K key one time and I was able to blow it out, but the cutout is really tight and prevents most debris from getting under the keys.
great review, but why isnt it a gamers keyboard? as a gamer i have the same needs as u, but often i hear ergo products not being gamery. Perhaps not for high end competitive gaming, but i think for most gamers/average joe such products r highly useable
Great point. I don't have the data on the latency of this device versus a hardwire or a low-latency option like Logi's Lightspeed keyboard. Even so, it's a fair question whether most people would notice the difference in actual gameplay. Thanks for the perspective!
I'd rather buy latest wired ms natural keyboard and chinese copy of previous gen ms natural mouse, the set will be cheaper with proven comfort. Logitech still sells awful k350 (I have one) marking it 'ergo series' - this is all you should know about their ergonomics
I just ran a quick test and didn’t have any problems. I typed “The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.” and a few other sentences stretching to the left as much as I could. No issues here. Hope that helps!
I find this, MX Keys, and their G613 to be their most interesting keyboards. There are also other Logitech keyboards out there that I haven't tried which interest me also. The thing with ergonomic keyboards for me though is that it's hard to take a risk and buy them but possibly end up not liking them. And for this price, that's really a huge risk. If given the chance I'd like to try them all out for a week or two.
I felt the same way about my first ergonomic keyboard. It took a couple of weeks, working with it every day to really get used to it. The motivation for me was the wrist pain from flat keys.
Can you direct press functions keys (like F1, F5 etc) or you need to first press other key - eg to press F5, you need to press [fun key + F5], or you can direct just press [F5] ?
Great question - had to test it. There is a function lock button next to the Print Screen key that enables this. So you do NOT have to hold down a fxn key to access F1-12.
I must be the only person in the world having issues paring this damn thing because not one RU-vidr talking about this product is explaining the pairing process.
For idiots like me, my connection didn’t work because of the battery sticker that sticks out of the back. You have to remove it for the connection to work properly.
anyone who like the F keys being reversed with the Fn keys doesn't really know how to use a computer. Unfortunately, that most of the market, so most manufacturers are doing it...
@@MichaelJLong TKL is just short for ten-key-less :) I think Microsoft's version has a TKL version. I just prefer the Logitech's Mac friendly Command key layout. We just can't win them all....
I haven't used the Sculpt but it appears to be a similar design. I had that one in my cart a couple of times, but never bought it. One key difference I see is the detached number pad for the sculpt and the negative space in the center is an actual hole on the sculpt (which I kinda like.) I have had success with other MS keyboards though, so I imagine it would be a good experience. For me personally, the K860 checks all the boxes: key stroke feel, ergo layout, quiet typing sound, multiple connections, full numpad, fn keys with lock, and the Unifying system.
Two guesses - Based on previous keyboards, this key is prone to get “squishy” because of the longer travel. So cutting it in half helped reduce the risk of it wearing out over time. Or it might have been more cost effective to install as two pieces instead of one. Bonus thought: they might just be poking fun at the gap in my front teeth. But I’m probably reading too much into that one. 🤔😄
Sometimes ergonomic keyboards allow you to reprogram one of them to be for example backspace. So you don't have to move your hands a long way from the homerow. Since you usually just use one thumb for pressing space this can be very useful, evening load and utilizing all fingers. Thanks for the review.
@@MichaelJLong please do, it probably boils down to if the bothered to make them separate or not. if they are separate and programmable I will buy this one. The sculpt comfort had this feature, it wasnt good but I loved that feature. I then bought the sculpt figuring that it would have the same feature but it didnt, and now I have lost the reciever so I'm looking for a new keyboard with this feature. Thanks again.
Hey, Michael, are you still using the K860? How is it holding up? I have been using Microsoft Sculpt for couple of years now, but I have since replaced the mouse (which was pretty bad anyway and really wasn't made to last) for an M705, and I'm thinking about trying out K860 instead. Sculpt was pretty good so far, really nice to type on, but the plastic is loosing it's finish, the wrist rest fabric is starting to peel off and the two dongle game is getting tiresome. Besides MS has the mind boggling idea of replacing function keys with these really cheap buttons with next to no travel and wobbly caps... which is probably the main reason I wouldn't buy it again.
Definitely still using this one. Love it even more now. The palm rests show a little dirt but are still very comfortable. The keys are solid with no issues.
Can I hook it up to a pc and Mac but not have a data connection between them! I.e. I don’t want that ability to copy from one device and paste to another. My work pc doesn’t allow any data connections into any USB ports except for USB and mouse
I don’t have a Mac to test it on. I guess I’ll have to get one of those new MacBook Pro’s. 😆 But seriously, I don’t think this will be an issue for you. The copy/paste feature is in the software, not the hardware.
Thank you so much for the review! I have a fairly new Microsoft K4000 which I absolutely hate because the keys "stick" as I'm typing....and I type a lot! I hate to fork over another $100+ but anything to keep my hands from hurting. Are the keys on this Logitech soft and easy?
Hi Leti - Yes the keys are very comfortable and do not require much pressure. Also relatively muted sounds. I can get moving pretty fast when I’m in the zone and this keyboard is my absolute favorite.
I've used this now for about two months and I love it. But, I'm bummed for what I see coming.... The palm rest doesn't detach and I see the oil from my palms doing damage already. Also, yes you can connect it to other devices. But, I have mine also paired with my iPad pro and they don't always play nice. You'll get a message when you pair it in the settings warning it may not work properly. I'd still make three purchase though.
