Longest Wagons Ever... But They Fail On Every Curve | Unboxing & Review 

The reason why those cars detail so much is because US curves tend to be much broader than their European equivalents; they need a bare minimum 18 inch radius which usually is the tightest curve in the states

As someone who's familiar with plenty of stuff derailing on my channel- I can safely say these cars are indeed very reliable and trouble free. The 60' gons are more comfortable on a 22' radius, the shorter 50's can get away on 18 with no problem. Just need broad enough curves for the wheelbase length and you're set!

Sam, I don't own a model train. I didn't have one as a child because I was scared of electricity and made fun of that by family members. Don't really care about big trains, either. So why do I watch? Easy, your unadulterated sheer joy in describing every detail of trains in your videos. You are one happy chap and it shows. There is no meanness in you and I have no doubts you're friendly to a fault. So I watch to see at least one happy camper in this world. Your girlfriend seems as genuinely happy as you. What a couple! It is a great thing to see your videos. Keep up the good work. Cheerio mate!

One trick US modelers and manufacturers use to help larger locomotives and rolling stock negotiate tighter curves is to install couplers with longer shanks. These Walthers gondolas are fitted with medium-shank couplers for realism. When coupled, and when they reach the limits of their travels, the coupler shanks push against the sides of the draft gear (coupling) boxes. This imparts a levering effect on the rolling stock, which pushes the flanges hard against the rails and creates drag. The wheels may be catching on the center sills but the levering effect is contributing to the drag. Of course, this can also cause one or both wagons to derail. Long shank couplers have more travel before the shanks hit the walls of the draft gear boxes, so they avoid the levering effect. However, the coupled distance between the wagons becomes unrealistically wide. It may be worth it to add long-shank Kadee couplers to the 68' gons to see if that reduces the drag in tighter curves. Walthers should have put a minimum radius in their listings. On extra large rolling stock (86-89ft), the draft gear boxes themselves are mounted on a swivel or have extra-wide openings, and still require 24" minimum radius curves! My 86ft Tangent auto parts boxcars do look impressive on the club layout, which has the sweeping curves and lineside clearances to accommodate them.

Schnabel cars: Am I a joke to you?

Swap out those wheels for Intermountain metal sets and use broader curves. They are not designed for Hornby train set curves and points.

Greetings from the United States. Those Walthers hoppers and other rolling stock are common in my HO scale club. We rely on a lot of sweeping curves to compensate. Also we have standards for all rolling stock that our wheels must be metal. If you change out to metal wheels they will roll smooth like butter.

One thing to consider is that HO layouts in the states often use Flextrack to make very wide curves. I may be mistaken but a 4th radius curve is roughly equal to a 22 inch curve, which is your minimum recommended (not minimal for operation) for most US models. Modern locomotives are about the same length as these cars with even more axles. I’m not excusing the behavior as people still do have tight curves. But the difference between OO and HO sometimes pokes through

Those gondola types are not really used by small or short-branch railroads. These are usually made for the big railroad lines on the mainline. So for those long gondolas in HO, they would be suited for curves up to 26in and over. If you want gondolas that can handle the track on your layout, a 40' Gondola would be ideal.

I haven't had a crazy amount of trouble with long wagons Especially my auto racks (Which I think are slightly longer than these) When the wagons are long and 2 light weight Is when they start derailing a lot

this is US model railroading today - they have taken the prototypical thing too far. You practically need a basketball court-sized area to build anything larger than a switching layout due to the minimum radius now being massive. This rivet counting has gone too far and less and less is designed for home and small room sized layout curves. Not just in the USA but everywhere else. Hence why so many modelers are returning to 1970s and 80s style modeling.

Great review as always. Hopefully I can help. When my layout was in Texas the 53' and 68' ran without problems - minimum radius was at least 4th (everything is bigger in texas!). So they run perfectly on the track they are designed for. Moving back to the UK I sold my 68' - no chance of running these here...BUT i run the 53' gondolas from walthers and athearn easily on UK 1st and 2nd radius curves! To achieve this I suggest the following steps: 1.replace the manufacturers' couplers with long centremount kadees This usually is all that is required, but some may also need 2. cut small notch out of sides at end of coupler box to enhance swing of coupler Then if bumps on points/switches - I use peco setrack - add extra weight to gondola Loco pulling will need long couplers - so i can run sd70s and 53' gondolas on 1st radius - looks great on the straights, but a bit silly at some viewing angles on the curves The only time I need to file the underframe is on modern reefers and spine cars...but that may be another review you do :) hope this helps, and keep us the useful reviews

I have one of the 53' gondolas and had the same issue on my 19" radius curves. I solved it by trimming the beam above the bogies like you mentioned. Not sure why they didn't design the clearance into the model as any lost detail isn't visible anyways, lol Also, to improve plastic axle rolling performance, I remove the wheels and "paint" the axle tips with a soft graphite artist pencil. It seems to work pretty good so far and also doesn't collect dirt like oil sometimes does :)

The accepted wisdom in North American HO is that larger modern freight cars should be used with 24" radius curves or wider unless they have unrealistic bogey mounted couplers. I believe that would be roughly fifth radius in the Hornby/Peco notation. If, like me, you are restricted to tighter curves you mostly have to stick to older 40 foot rolling stock.

Here’s another thought, these are still quite “ short” when compared with the passenger coaches used here, 85’ was quite common. The flat cars used in intermodal traffic range from 85’ to 89’. These can easily handle 2 40’ trailers or containers.

Just adding to the theme... USA layouts usually use wider curves in clubs and displays, but most home hobbyists use 15" and 18" (R1 & R2) curves. Like anywhere, It is all about how much space you have to insert a layout. But, Sam: would you consider releasing a 'How to' video on creating a video for RU-vid™? It would be interesting to see what you think are minimum equipment requirements vs what you reccomend to use ( hardware, software, etc). How do you plan and put together an episode? I have attempted some video, but my results are very amateurish compared to what we have seen you release. Keep these great reviews coming! 🚂

Sam if you want a big piece of U.S rolling stock get your hands on a schnabel car. That is a massive piece of rolling stock.

Decent review here sam, interesting wagons especially with them being quite long, think the longest items Of stock I have are the coaches and driving car of my hornby class 800.

As someone who operates on a club layout and has quite a few of these, they do run quite well under the proper circumstances. These cars are intended for longer industries and wider curves due to their length so be warned of that. I believe on the website theyre listed as 22 inch radius and up to cope with the length. I will admit, swapping rge axles for all metal make a world of difference in rolling performance in a 40+ car train.

Since the bogies are screwed in place could you put some washers above the bogies to raise the bodies relative to the bogies?

Good afternoon, Sam! I have a very similar grain hopper from Bachmann, never fails to derail on every single switch frog and curve on my layout. So i gutted it for parts, (mostly couplers n things) for use on my Mantua 4-6-0! 😄

I only just saw you on Hornby a model world, wasn't expecting too see you on there, what a pleasant surprise and what a fun experiment!

Usually a Continental coach is 26.20 meters, which is about 86 ft., so a model coach should be longer than any of those wagons. But I still remember I made comparisons between H0 scale coaches and their very prototype, resulting for example that the latter had 14 windows while the model had 12, so I assumed that the model had been shortened, maybe just to better negotiate the curves.

Sam love your videos keep them coming

I have just received my new Accurascale class 37 with sound. Having run over a thousand different locos in my time this runs head and shoulders above the majority of what I have. The crawl WoW.

If you think those are large, you should try getting some of the Autoracks! I believe Walthers makes some of those as well. Enjoyed the video Sam!

American railroad rolling stock is bigger, badder , and tougher due to higher weights, larger sizes of loads carried, and longer service life in the USA.

Never had a problem with the ultra long US wagons. But then I always replace plastic axles with metal (and sometimes metal bogies). Like all US wagons they are designed as a basic "toy" but benefit from mods and detailing - very different from UK models and the way we do things. They can also benefit from more weight. US layouts have MUCH broader curves than our R1/R2 stuff (the buffers and wheels will clash - it's a length thing). Try R6 as a starting point (around 650-700mm radius).

Thanks for reviewing more North American models, Sam! For "toy quality" rolling stock over here the couplers are mounted to the trucks and other compromises are made so the cars can negotiiate tight curves. However, most NA model railroaders now reject such modifications as unprototypical and don't buy them. The "layout quality" models you reviewed cost about half the price of highly detailed models, so a model railroader with a large layout that needs a large fleet of freight cars could very much be interested in them. (Good weathering can make a so-so model look a lot better.) Also, if a detailed model of a particular prototype car isn't available, some folks will buy a layout quality version and replace the molded details with separate after-market versions. Again, thanks for remembering your subscribers across the pond. Cheers from Wisconsin!

I also have one of the large 68' gondola from Walthers, and it runs through 18" curves without issues.

The minimal recommendation of the MOROP for such wagons is 354,75 mm (roughly R1) but it is an extreme minimal. The practical minimal is recommended at 412,5 mm for station and shunting curves, a little less than the UK R2. But the minimal radius for the USA is 18in/457mm, slightly broader than UK R2, and your have better results at 22in/558mm, a little bit below the UK R4 of 572mm. Those wagons are taylored for those specs, don't forget that. By the way,to reduce drag, you can replace the axles by full metal ones for better performance, but that adds around GBP 4 per wagon, take your pick... It won't solve the problem on tighter curves than R3, and the inner flanges of the wheel touching the coupler's pocket.

Great Review Sam. A very obvious pointer to why we Watch and You Produce these Video's. If they Look great, but most of us can't run them ( at least without Tinkering..!) What's the Point of the things..? And Some will No Doubt Mention your Layout being the Issue. That is also a Plus in my Book, because your Layout is putting the Model up against a Serious Test. If your Layout was Perfect in everyway..! It would not Tell us Modellers who are not blessed with Huge Spaces, Perfectly layed Track ect. Much at All..! So Well Done Young Sir, you've saved me Money in the Past and No Doubt will do Again..! Cheers kim in Oz.

Reminds us of some very long American style cheap Lima tanker wagons we had... Took some time to make them behave decently but they at least had all metal wheels. We gave ours away since we collect Märklin. Simply cheap tosh this; no other words for it. I guess you could change out the wheels to all metal, do some work on them, but we couldn't even bother... Never seen these length of wagons however. That's very interesting. But yeah... el cheapo style stuff... What can you expect 🙅

Canadian here and my dad is German and into Marklin trains so I get both sides of the fence... You guys have a problem that solves itself! Space is scarce so you have smaller dwellings with less space for sprawling layouts, so you resort to either small loop layouts with sharp radius curves or smaller shunting layouts with pretty much no curves. But thet your rolling stock does not look as goofy because railroads also have limited space and rolling stock tends to be smaller as well!! You should get and auto rack car... all 189ft of it on your layout!!

Hi Sam, As has been said before, US/Canadian modelling for that length of wagon would require at least a 28 inch radius (4th rad = 26 Inch approx..) Also, US model locos are way heavier than UK models, your SD60 would have pulled them without breaking a sweat. At the Bearwood Group, our main layout has 38 (outer) & 36 (inner) to allow for freight cars & passenger coaches to pass freely. The US loading gauge is massive, allowing 85ft double deck passenger cars & double stack Intermodals (Freightliner) trains to run. As for "if you have a huge layout, you won't want budget models" Quite untrue! If your layout is that big, you'd be running as a mainline so large numbers of wagons required for most trains, so buying "budget" models will help to create the long rakes required. Keep up the good work! Boa

The longest individual cars available are 84ft autoracks. However there are autorack pairs available, two cars on 3 wheel bogies. Make sure the wheel bogies are free to rotate for your track. This problem of wheel clash with body work is not limited to Walthers, ROCO 2020 coaches also have problems on curves and tight point work. Check pivot screw for over tight joint and release by quarter turn till fully free but still supporting joint and car.

(Extremely long in UK standards) those are pretty average for railways here in the states, we have boxcars that run up to 80 maybe even 90 feet on the daily and those still arent the longest cars seen here, such as Autoracks and ofcourse i cant mention long cars withour mentioning the infamous Schnabel. Anyways this video is awesome! -KCDash4400cw 2023

Good video and review. Yes the layouts that they are usually used on are very large and not small curves. Ideal for a flat layout in a large American style room. But they looked impressive.

I have a few 84ft flats that were made from old athearn kits. IIRC they're for hauling a pair of trailers. and they have ramps on the end to drive trucks across them.

I take my instruction from the first Walthers Heavyweight coach I bought, it clearly said minimum 25" radius. I've used that as a benchmark for ALL curves and points on my layout as the absolute minimum, Peco Streamline it was...That way I've never been caught out, It's a shame that wasn't stated clearly on the box.

American freight cars are usually around 53 feet long, but there are boxcars as long as 86 feet that carry auto parts to various factories across the country and 89-foot auto carriers to carry finished vehicles on three levels. Passenger cars can also be just as long, compared to a BR Mark 1 that is just 57 feet long and a Mark 3 that's 75 feet long. Of course there are special cars that are much longer but those have four or more bogies. Any model longer than 12 inches will only work in 22-inch radius curves (3rd and 4th radius) or larger

It might be an interesting exercise to swap out the bogies to see what happens. Really the smaller one should be fine as Australian HO container wagons are commonly 63' in length and they seem to run OK. I worked in a container terminal, where we used one or two 80' container wagons on most trains. What I did notice is that the bogies on an 80' wagon are located a fair distance from each end whereas the Walthers Gondolas have them about as far out as they can go. The massive distance between them does look weird and, as you say, would really affect their carrying capacity unless specifically designed for long loads such as steel beams. It might also be a good idea to double check the lengths just to be sure they are true to scale.

13:21: We all got to love that juicy wheelslip! We need a wheelslip compilation.

The legal name for the Soo Line is The Minneapolis, St. Paul and Sault Ste. Marie Railroad. Soo Line is now controlled by the Canadian Pacific Railway.

Watching the 08 spin it's wheels trying to move the cars around the curves was worth the humour! Ronn

Fascinating vid sam, these are very long indeed! Shame they couldn't work properly though.

Wow, I might have to get these as my first American rolling stock as I am finally starting a railway, also just got my Hornby railroads Flying Scotsman, any tips or quirks I should know about.

I have 1 question Sam. Does your hornby 2800 have a capacitor near the motor? Cheers Jasper & Willow

As my Bachmann A4 has trouble on my 2nd radius curves so I doubt the only way these will negotiate my curves is with added weight and possibly check rails to keep them on the track

A note on the trucks, detail is basic because its supposed to be, if you Google "S-2 truck" youll see real ones. *We use them on everything.* They are even used in other countries like Australia, India, Russia, Brazil, and on some British freight cars aswell, across many different gauges. Load limits are no issue, a pair can easily take 100+ short tons. Also try an autorack if you dare...

Metal wheels and no. 20 long shank couplers , will help a lot

Those wagons turned that 08 from a mighty beast to a bighty meast.

Hi Sam. As you said, great detail but oh what a shame about the drag issue. All my British coal and mineral wagons I have filled with the appropriate ballast but can you imagine the strain on even the most powerful loco if you were to fill them by putting coal or minerals into these wagons. You would have to fill them with foam first and then spread artificial coal or minerals along the top of the foam and seal it using watered down PVA. Also, I would replace all of the wheels and axles even if it meant employing some form of 'jiggery pokery' method. Ciao, Paul. 👍❤

These are the type of cars that I would do a truck swap on and use a couple of washers help raise the car height, it could help the car clear tighter radius curves. If not that, then I'd sand down some of the underbody detail where the trucks are.

I have a Walthers 50’6” Gondola (Item 74802) and I’ve had no problems whatever with it on tight, essentially train set level curves. Seems that three scale feet makes a difference for the smaller gondolas?

Awesome video today Sam really nice wagons

i have these and had that issue. I went and installed 1flat fiber washer to each truck/bogie and now no issues.

I believe Walthers recommend a minimum radius of 2ft radius for these (610mm), Athearn have similar sized freight cars which are recommended at 22 inch radius. I think with these you're OK at 22 inch radius, but you also need near billiard table level track. Fourth radius falls just below this so I think a combination of tight curves along with running on the floor being less optimal is a bit of a kiss of death for reliable operation with these longer vehicles. You can modify the chassis a bit to increase clearance but you'll very soon also find the coupler mount to be in the way as well. If you think those mill gondolas are big, for a laugh I think you should look at the TOFC flats and Autoracks, both being 89 footers plus change. I had to redesign the entry to a passing loop as those monsters wouldn't negotiate a 36 inch radius reverse curve...though I'll admit a gradient change just before the reverse curve is probably the killer!

These gondolas are primarily used to transport pre assembled steel roof trusses used in commercial and industrial building construction. I don’t know how 00 gauge track is sized, but here in the US, it is in inch radius the “standards” being 18”, 22”, 24”, and 36”. Using flex track would allow for “custom” radius curves. The bearing friction issue could be remedied with either Kadee or Walther’s Proto wheelsets, both have metal axles. Walthers has done very well with their purchase of Life Like.

I have a similar length American flatbed which i use for testing curves

I've seen enough of these on various layouts over the years and on larger radius they're not a problem. I've seen them go up curved hills and handle tight yards and not come off. Of course, it still sucks to buy a model only to see it doesn't work on your track. Walthers maybe should have made the truck mounts a tad thinner just to give the cars a little bit of extra wiggle room.

I have these cars on my layout and they run beautifully. Even on 22" radius. No derailment or excessive drag whatsoever.

Awesome video Sam's trains

A good rule of thumb with railcar sizes is the shorter the car, the more dense the load they’re intended to transport. There’s also different size wheels and trucks (bogies) depending on the gross tonnage of the car.

Just need some 89 foot autoracks or some 86 foot auto parts boxcars! Those are looooong cars.

Sam, I love your videos and have been watching for several years now. Keep 'em coming please. However, and I don't mean any offense in any way shape or form, but would you think it rude of me to ask if you can refer to the "Turning Wheel" as you refer to it by its proper name. It is not used for turning anything except a ratchet wheel that winds a chain on or off which in turn applies the brakes on the wagon. In North America they are called simply "Brake Wheel's." In Australia where I worked for about 45 years in Rail. We also call them "Brake Wheel's." I realise that it may be my personal problem, but can you give it a try as I am sure those in North America and Australia will appreciate it.

Those are some big ass wagons. Dang. My train is on its way and soon it will be here. Keep being awesome my friend. Ur the greatest friend I could ever have. Keep being the best. Trains are priority 1

Notch in the Cross bracing for flange clearance; will work on 1st radius curves !

Could you 3D print an even larger wagon?

I have noticed this issue on some cheaper American rolling stock, but not to the point where it causes problems like this on curves. Really cool to see though! By the way, what's currently the strongest loco in your collection apart from the experiments like Speedy Pete and the two tender traction tire Schools class?

Could you not add a small washer under each bogey to raise it slightly?

hi sam. nice finished wagons. instead of sanding the wheels i would spend a bit more and fit 2nd hand hornby coaches bogies.

Are the couplings in NEM pockets Sam? Might purchase a couple of these if so.

Washer the bogy screw to raise the body?

Hope you’re doing well Sam! I just booked my tickets for Warley

Hello I’m a American model railroader! American prototype cars are far larger then uk equipment generally. So ideally as a American model railroader if your going to run long freight cars 22 radius is the minimum curve. Also note Walthers passengers cars recommend a minimum radius of 24 radius.

Hi Sam. These cars are rated at 22” minimum radius and 24” recommended. Luckily as others have stated you only really see 1-2 of these in a consist at a time! I have many U.S. passenger cars that have a minimum of 22” radius and a recommended of 24-26” radius. My new layout will most likely have 30” + radius to ensure I can run any cars or locos that I fancy! Cheers Sam hope you are well!

how much import duty are you paying for stuff ordered from Walthers?

Idk what’s more cursed, the 08 unable to pull the wagons or a peckett with knuckle couplings lol

That 68 foot gondola would have an additional #8 vent valve mounted to the underframe, that's your additional detail on that car. Speaking of brakes, that "turning wheel" is called a brake wheel. It is used to operate the brakes on a car when there's no air present.

If you're up for some really comically large rolling stock (and if you can stomach the price) I would love to see you review an 86' auto parts box car from Tangent Scale Models. Absolutely massive bits of kit.

Hi Sam, One thing to remember as you say is that they are H0. If they were 00 they would be even bigger.

Hey Sam, you remember the company that's making a model Shay engine? You interested in getting one of those for some American oddities?

Sam! Ya need to get some HO NSC 64 Ft 6400 CuFt Scrap and Trash Gondola from OVR🇨🇦 Best detail ever.

Hey Sam. Love your work. Yeah USA rail road is a different ball game. We all learn but do make sure you have the radius for the longer rolling stock. If you ever happen to buy a UP big boi you’re definitely going to need to wider radius tracks for corners. You specialise in UK railway so don’t feel to bad for this.

Does it help to have some weight in the cars? It looks a bit odd to have a consist of empty cars on a train.

Get a bi level car carrier, or a ttx flatcar with double semi trailers on it

American rolling stock yay! You should try the Walthers Mainline 85'' coaches, one I have did keep derailing but after some adjustments it has been perfectly fine. 😆

I'm really surprise Sam that I've never seen these before, there very interesting. Cheers Jasper & Willow

Sam, you should try the rivarossie Heisler. It is worth the money. The detail is amazing, and the quality is top notch.

Actually there’s one it’s like 86” long boxcar so it’s the largest but you should try that with SD40-2 or something like that

You should try getting a model of an 86 footer Autorack, they're absolutely huge!

We need a train of these pulled by big boy

It would be fun, and ridiculous, too, to have these monster Wagons pulled by that tiny Bavarian 'Glass Box' engine, you showed us the other day. Conversely, it would be fun seeing your Beyer-Garratt pulling those tiny, spurious Hornby era 1 Wagons, or some Chaldrons. 🤔🤔🤔😆😆😆

For comparison a BR mark 1 is 64 feet and a mark 3 is 75 feet. The 800 series are 85 feet but the latest ones for Midland Main Line are a bit shorter

Why not fit a couple of washers between the bogie and the body? That would lift the body up a bit to allow extra clearance.

The only times you ever see a single locomotive on a North American Class I (where these would be used) is for local freights with a rake of less than 10 cars. I've seen (not personally, this happened in Illinois and I'm in Arizona) a three-locomotive rank hauling a single hopper car on the BNSF, including a not exactly weak B40-8W and an SD40-2. I'm sure even just a second locomotive (my GP9M is nearly 700 grams) would handle a good number of those gondolas.

It’d be cool to see a side by side comparison with the Bosch Buster

I appreciate that you have to test items in standard form, but it actually looks like a simple issue to unscrew the bogies (trucks?) and remove enough material with a small burr mounted in a Dremel or similar.

One of the few things going for the too expensive Hornby era 1 wagons is that the engines can pull them.