Klein doesnt need to be complex to be an interesting character. A main character can be interesting without being complex. So I agree with u that he isnt complex, and hes not boring. I just never get people who call a character boring if he doesn’t have five layers of complexity to him or her
I think one of my favorite things about Klein is how helpless he is to his own humanity. He's absolutely a beacon of temperance and unparalleled efficiency, yet he can't stop his humanity from overcoming his efficiency in certain moments.
He has lots of way to complete acting & rituals easily like faceless,scholar of yore,attendent of mystery, yet he kept his morality to stop doing the easy but evil ways.His motivation is that he cant betray himself. Even the final fight agaimst Amon he was ready to let CW take over him because its a human choice, the sacrifice which Amon couldnt understand what it means to be human.@@michaelmitchel3471
Klein is the most human character I have ever seen. He is kind and noble. He know what he is good at what not. When I saw Klein remembering the minor characters like old Kohler, Liv and Freja, I knew no one was more deserving to be a god.
Damn your analysis is on point, I'm totally agree with you. IMO, I simply like Klein, much like adore him, his personality, his solitude, his came from a young man of the 21st century, living a mundane life to shouldering the world matters, literary become an eldritch entity that will HAVE to exist till the end of time, even until all the stars have disappeared. I reverently adore him, Along the pathway, Klein could have, CF could have just written Klein to become like Fang Yuan, thing would have gone his way much more easier. "I'd rather betray the world than let the world betray me." For in Lotm's world, what the point of kindness, if everything is already so twisted, if kindness only dragging your process of becoming more powerful, what the point of distinguishing good or bad in such a gray world of threats and madness. Aren't it all just a big joke ? But then he said :"Can I accept such an outcome?"
Haven’t watched the video yet but I can’t comprehend thinking that Klein is a boring main character. He’s quite an interesting character and is in many ways relatable, though I’d have to spoil to elaborate. So if you dont mind minor spoilers or read LOTM fully already, you can keep reading this. Klein is someone who I think a lot of people can relate to or would want to relate to. He’s a coward, but he will without hesitation, put his life on the line for those he cares about. And unlike other mcs, when he finds himself enstranged from home, he wants to return. Desperately so. And he shows it not just in words but in action. When you read LOTM, you feel Klein’s humanity, and his struggle to maintain it as he ascends to divinity only makes him more likeable as a character. And this is just a small, general overview of why he is an amazing and intriguing main character. His humor, the way he fights, the different personas he puts on as an act, they all serve to make him a main character that you want to root for and want to see accomplish his goals. Even though LOTM has a beautiful world (in terms of writing), incredible power system, and great antagonists, I don’t think I would’ve enjoyed it nearly as much if Klein was boring to me.
For me, Klein is my fav character ever for one simple idea. The way Cuttlefish fleshed out his character by using different personas, each persona shows one side of klein character, and each of them helps him walk through his path of madness and affects him throughout the rest of the story until we reached volume 8 where all of these conflicting characters coexist in him. As for the people who say klein doesn't get affected by the traumatic incidents, I doubt if they even made it through the end of volume one, because what happened there was one of his main motives until the end volume four, and it kept affecting him afterwards, without talking about the end of volume 2
Bro those people haven't properly read the book. He literally had to seek out Audrey's (A genuine psychiatrist) treatment numerous times due to some fucked up stuffs he saw and learned about.
@@n3ew777 aot hxh berserk re zero reincarnated as a slime mushoku tensei soul eater og teen titans breaking bad jujutsu kaisen blue lock last Airbender Yu Yu Hakusho
In my opinion, Klein is a simple character. But he’s developed. Simple does not need to be boring or bad but rather just easy to understand. Klein is simple because WE the reader are reading through his thoughts, his perspective and his life. And he’s developed through the experiences he faced, putting his character through many different ordeals. I honestly don’t know how to express how much I like about Klein because I just love every part of him.
As a qualifier I've read both RI and LotM Neither Klein nor Fang Yuan are particularly deep, especially in the beginning of their respective novels. It's the simplicity that makes them compelling, it's honestly their strongest traits. In both series, with massive webs of shifting allegiances and alliances having a simple to understand character is almost a necessity. The reaffirmation of their own beliefs is what makes them powerful protagonists. The Fool's Gambit and Reverse Flow River and eerily similar and both are loved by their respective communities because it displays the strongest points of the characters; their simplicity. Fang Yuan always moves forward towards his goal of immortality, and Klein will ascend to protect what he loves.
Honestly, Klein's journey is very relatable. Like I could see myself walking the same path as him. Maybe in a way, Klein having not much of a complexity might serve as a self-insert. Of course not a full-blown self-insert devoid of personality, but at least we as readers could put our own point of view, feelings, thoughts, and emotions into everything Klein had done and his interactions with others. When he learned or accomplished something, we celebrate or grief with him. His shock is ours, his confusion is ours, his frustrations is ours, his happiness is also ours. And maybe that's why this "Fool's Journey" is so enjoyable to read. I've read LoTM in around 2 months (a month of struggle to get through volume 1 btw lol) and even then there were times that I read the novel for a whole day. It's that good.
This reminds me the controversy with the Shadow slave author when he said that klein was a plane character and not a good Mc and Sunny was way more complex. Your video tells perfectly what the deal with it is truly
@@fork6057 yeah i got shocked with that and i searched in Twitter the whole conversation. The worst part was the wave of harassment and hate he got. Even if It was a controversial take, my guy didnt deserve that
@@Sandwich-pt7riNo, I can concur you that he *definitely* deserve that. No author/writer will shit on other novel and use that to alleviating one self book. Not to mention the amount of nonsense he spout and said as if it a fact. "Your character is one dimension, mine better" "I prefer my character than your character" See the difference? Totally the same meaning. SS author act as a scumbag in this controversial.
@@JIN-my8ceHe was asked on his own discord what he thought of the novel and certain characters in the novel and just answered the questions. Don't see how that makes him a scumbag
@@malogor2127 First, most of his saying are nonsense. Don't even say that you already finished the novel when all of your spouting is nonsense. It's even a false statement. Second. If you think a little and read my comment. Allow me to remind you that, no author would do what he did. Criticized(again, it's not even true) other novels just to promote one's own is a terrible act. It's very very unprofessional. If you want to criticize. Do it alone, not do what he did. Third. If you read SS and LoTM. There's no way that you can overlook Mordret. The perfect copy of Amon but less threatening. This alone speaks about quality in itself.
Klein may not be the best protagonist from the start but he goes through amazing character development especially in vol 6,7 and 8. To me vol 8 klein > fang yuan
I respect that take, I can’t comment on it though because I haven’t reached that far in the novel yet, so you bet I’m coming back when I’m caught up though!!!
Character doesn’t have a preset archetype like “Denji is dumb” or “Kid has OCD” etc etc they automatically think they’re badly written. Or how people think Lumian is a better written character because he’s got a “stronger” personality and a “goal” of “revenge”
I have seen that, and altough Lumian Is a good character, Klein is also a really good one, he does have a strong personality, he does have a goal, he first wants to go back home, desperatly so, and at the end he wants to protect those who have faith in him so for me he is a really good written character
I mean after reading the whole lotm, I can imagine cuttlefish could easily creat that kind of "typical" MC some people would appreciate more. But I feel Klein is better this way(you are beautiful just the way you are~🎶). I like the story view from such a simple and kind character in the beginning, influenced also by those people he met in his life. Especially he never abandon his best part and hold them till the end in this crazy world.
Klein is the perfect vassal to tell a story like this, it focuses less on him and more on the things around him and his interaction . kind of a self insert. and I think that's what makes him as a character so good to me. on the other hand, i really dislike Lumian, lumian in terms of how he is written, is basically a generic action light novel protagonist. if it wasnt for the fact that he is in lotm, he would just be transmigrator/cultivation/isekai/regressor protagonist number 89. but thats just my opinion. i really like klein mainly because he is more of a vessel to explore the world he is in.
Me personally, I believe that as we go further in the story, Klein becomes more distant from us readers. The experience of the world and ascension mold him in a way that isn't anymore like Klein in Vol 1, who was basically a guy stuck in another world. So, it's no really fair to lable him as self-insert completely.
@@shamanking2695 i agree with what you said, the where i said self insert is mainly put there because i wasnt sure how to describe it. he is to me the perfect vessel for a reader to experience the world from his perspective as if it was our own, if that make sense, thats what i really meant
@@arobloxmirror5570, it is because we are put in his shoes, read his thoughts and follow him through his journey. Practically, we are one with him while reading, which let's us experience the story with more immersion.
Honestly I had the same opinion on Lumian as you but.. the kid kinda grew on me man. I do enjoy him now. Obviously he is not as smart or charming as Klein but I like his own thoughts and inputs in a situation and how we get to see him grow as a person as the book goes on is splendid. Also, if you don't mind me asking, what vol of COI are you in rn?
@@snoo_96 I am on chapter 620 of COI, also my reason for not liking lumian is that he is written as a basic mc in terms of he is like every most mc out there in terms of manwha type story (im saying manwha because i dont wanna type out all the different forms) hes not as bland as klein, but with both i am more excited to see his interaction with the other cast rather than them themselves but for very different reasons. where as klein, i think he is a vessel for the reader to learn about the world, which i think is a strength of the book. but for lumian, its more because he is written like alot of other mc i have read. example being, if you were to take him out of lotm world, and put him into another story world, he is just another forgettable mc
Kelien is a great protagonist in my opinion because I love the way he is always in a different persona but in the end he continues to be our beloved Kelien
The issue with Klein is that cuttlefish never established zhou mingrou or klein's past and flaws. All we knew is 1 was a keyboard warrior and one was a history student their past only acts as a tool to drive the narrative (The MC is well read and intelligent). U cannot evolve as a character if theres nothing to evolve from. Its a bit sad cause especially the faceless arc could have been much greater that way. The fact that he barely interacts with his family doesn't help aswell. Fortunately the other side characters don't have this issue. You could say, since klein is such a blank character it makes him a better actor. Thats his biggest strenght.
Idk, I find that most people on RU-vid are pretty chill and understanding, at least ones that click on my videos. There have been some exceptions though 😅
@@pineguin008 I guess this still is a niche genre in the grand scheme of things so the ppl who follow this stuff on multiple platforms are genuine good fans and supporters (most).
When he asked himself "Do you accept this?" About king Augustes became Black emperor while all gods more or less accepted it,when he said 'No' he truly became my absolute favourite Mc of all time out their,cause I've never seen an Mc sticks to his moral bottom line like him, every mc just after gaining little bit of power they thinks they're above everyone else and often forgets whats it is to be human being,to me Klein truly represents humanity.
Guys, if you’re looking for something good to read, I recommend 'Athena's General Reincarnated in Another World.' It tells the story of a General who became a God after defeating the entire Greek Olympus by eliminating his arch-nemesis, the goddess Athena. After becoming the Sovereign God, he decides to die as a human. Upon his death, the entity Charon sends him to another world filled with magic. In this world, he has everything he always wanted (family and friends). However, this world is at war, and his people are threatened. Now he must use his skills from the other world and the magic of this one. What’s cool about this story is that it features magical creatures, relics, ocular powers, and the interesting twist is that the Goddess Athena (his arch-nemesis) haunts him as a ghost.
Klein was no genius, no reader foresight, no nothing. He was just a normal teenager who suddenly ended up in another place full of magic, another era full of mysteries and dangers, far from where he used to belong.
This is what makes it special for me that you feel like a real human being and not like the MC of other works, especially the Isekai who have a sad and repeated past or find them do not care even because of their movement and start collecting harem and this nonsense, especially in the novels of cultivation , Klein is a natural human being, for example, as if like me or like you, we have a family and friends, and these things suddenly find ourselves in another world, so we will definitely want to return to our world
Can I know what chapter are you in rn? Kinda shocked that you haven't fully read the first book because the way you explained things made me think you were already caught up lol
@@pineguin008 Ohhhh, yes I just watched your recent video covering the review of the first book's ending, think you also mentioned it there. Well, enjoy the re-read brother. Also I hope you do drop some reviews of the 2nd vol and so forth. I'll be there to watch it.
I definitely plan on reviewing the later volumes as well, it’s just that I’m taking my time with fully digesting the contents of each volume so that I don’t forget everything like my first read through 😅
@@pineguin008 I honestly envy you that you get to forget the first time reading, so you get to have the same awesome experience TWICE. not many people can have that. *Edit: I also look forward getting your vide on 2nd vol and more, keep these coming :)
To me, Klein is such a suitable protagonist for LoTM and such a compelling character because he is just so human, especially in the first few volumes. This is what makes the later changes in his character through his growing divinity and disappearing humanity so obvious and tragic. I think this emotional distance that the reader also notices is what makes some say that he is a robotic and boring character when its (sadly) the character development because of his ascent to becoming divine.
That's simply false. There bound to be one pathway that encroaching in maneuver/rider/navigator. They all can be said to be the best bus driver/act as the bus driver. Just because it's not the same/specific name doesn't mean it has none.
@@JIN-my8ce I was thinking something similar; just recently, I started the series. I was thinking (after I posted the comment and I read the chapter when Sun was introduced), i was like 'What if the ancient bus driver potion name is different, like cart driver or something?'
I don't agree with people eho think Klein is robotic , because throughout the whole work we can "hear" his real thoughts and emotions. And he is quite emotional, and maybe even melancholic. Well, the fact that he does not actively show them in public is logical.
@@QuangTran-jr7uk if you have 500 years of experience you don't need any protection, of course Klein needs protection, he's just a random human who got transmigrated to a world filled with insanity and insane gods
How do i read the lord of mysteries. I was stuck at chapter 38 7 months ago and i forgot most of the stuff. I went back to chapter one and i can't get past a few chapters.
Read manga 1st, then continue with the novel. Give both book 1,2 (and maybe 3) a try if you cant find anything good to read. Read Reverend Insanity last as a final novel boss.
How do you see him as a normal person.... He was great a manipulation from start .. He made up believable stories behind the unbelievable he did. He just says he is normal but no way is he normal form start... Its just he is extremely cautious... He just act like normal person.. Nor is he normal or boring.. it just people can't understand him ..his actions do look normal but no they aren't.
I dropped LOTM at around chapter 70 its too boring. I read novels like Reverend Insanity, Warlock of the magus world, Sword God in a World of Magic. I've read terrible Xian Xia's like renegade immortal and I found it somewhat more interesting than Lord of the Mysteries. I think it is because I am more incline into characters developing themselves and standing at the top but from what I've read it's too bland and I just can't see how he will stand at the top. But I wanna give it a chance but no one can convince me, can someone please help me? I'm bored and I don't have anything too read lol
I think it's worth it to give it a chance. I know it's a big ask but push through to chapter 200 around where you realize all the inconsequential things that the author has planted all come together to a ridiculous plot twist that will blow your mind. Also, Klein goes through so much development that in the last chapter of the novel, he is a completely different person. the development is also very smooth and well done. it is also after chapter 200 that shit hits the ceiling and the pacing wildly increases. klien also gets the true motivation to develop himself as much as he can to become stronger. Also, his development is incredibly satisfying as he gets almost no cheats and puts his blood sweat and tears into everything he does. the first 200 chapters are just worldbuilding and the prologue, setting the pieces to one of the best-crafted worlds in fiction. it will all be worth it. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to put down the novel after that.
1st: Never compare any novel with RI or else you will never read any novel again ( if you do find any come close to RI - or the author's novel after RI- let me know). 2nd: Do give LOTM a try. Both book 1 and 2. Hundreds of recaps and very few is enjoyable as LOTM. All pales before RI, including Infinity Bloodcore.
In my opinion, Klein is still a boring character. While your analysis offers additional insight into why there are moments that make Klein a more compex character, the main issue is that Cuttlefish fails to make these personal moments particularly impactful at a glance. In other words, only a few of the character moments actually made me 'wow' shortly after reading it. You are correct that the book is more about the world. That is why i dont particularly care that Klein is a boring character. He reminds me of Han Xiao from Legendary Mechanic. Not a very interesting character, but one that fits well to drive the plot forward. If cuttlefish could have more consistency with well written characters they would take another step forward as an already great author.
Personally, I feel like Klein as a character, is written like one of the mysteries in the novel itself, where the reader unravels who he is as the story goes on. the simplest way that I can describe it is that the reader is befriending Klein, learning more and more about him as the story goes on, just like you would to a friend. In the first volume, the reader doesn't really know him, but through subtle but constant build-up, eventually, the reader would feel like they have known and been close friends with Klein for years. I agree that Klein isn't a character with a lot of complexity, but absolutely is a character with a lot of depth. About the "wow" moments you stated, I feel like you are right in the fact that there aren't many that are as explicit as those in other novels, but there are many character moments that are pretty frequent that leave a deep impression on me and take up permanent space in my brain. I don't know how far you have read into the novel, so I will keep all my examples early on in the novel, or very vague or small spoilers. One example can be of Klein's loneliness. Of course, the readers logically know that Klein is very lonely, but that moment in the second volume where Klein projects his feelings by talking to brody the cat hits very hard. You can truly feel how unbelievably lonely he is. A more explicit example of the "wow" moments that I am talking about from the second volume again can be seen at the end of the Laverus fight. it truly gave me chills. The frequency and impact of these moments increase as the novel goes on, especially after he breaks through to the higher sequences. About consistency, I would argue that Klein is a pretty consistent character ( of course, he isn't perfect, but the moments he is not is the exception.) You can see this in his traits. A very simple example can be that about his love for food. from the first volume to the end of the novel, whenever he eats even the simplest of foods, he goes into a detailed description of it like he is a Masterchef. An example of a more important trait is that of the way he handles grief. He hides it with a smile, and bottles it up again and again until it boils over. you can tell that it is part of his "acting" but I would argue that it is very intentional. (I can go on and on about how his personas actually tell a lot about him but that's a rant for another day.) Cuttlefish builds this very subtly but the reader picks up on it unconsciously until they know a vast amount of traits of Klein. No one describes this better that Klein himself in that one chapter in Volume 3. I also think that this is effective because even Klien is discovering who he is and who he is becoming. About character development, It speaks for itself. Klein in the last chapter of the novel is so different from the first chapter that he is almost unrecognisable. But cuttlefish builds this up in such a smooth way that you truly don't realize how rediculous the difference is until you go back and read the first chapters. His development is also so very tragic that it hurts. (Again that is a rant for another day.) But the part that I like the most about it is that despite how insanely different he becomes, his core is still the same. He is still Klein. This is perfectly encapsulated by that one line he tells near the end of the novel. I also think that the way that the readers learn about klein (AKA the friend way that I described earlier) the development hits harder. There are several moments where the reader is hit hard with the fact that Klien has changed, but still is the same friend he was the in the very beginning. Another masterful way that cuttlefish shows this is in his writing style. As Klein breaks through the higher sequences, the writing style becomes much more detached. The reader can feel that he is not really human anymore. He even stops Lampooning. but the moments where he is trying to cling on to his humanity, the previous writing style returns, making it hit even harder. I am going to stop talking about his development here, this has already become way too long. I also won't talk about any of the other parts of the character that I want to discuss. Instead, I want to talk about why he seems so closed off. And the simple answer is, he is. He is trying so hard not to think about anything else that can keep him tethered in this world because he desperately doesn't want to be. He wants no distractions and single-mindedly works as hard as he can to go home as fast as possible. Moreso than the acting method, this is the reason. That is why when he is told to let down his guard at least a little frequently, he does and consequently becomes a lot more emotional. This can also be seen again in the later part of the novel when everything he ever worked for falls apart, he does too. I think this is also why the scene mentioned in the video hits hard, because he ended up getting attached even when he so actively tries not to. That is also why so many emotional scenes in the hits so much harder, because its leaking through the cracks. That also why THAT ONE LINE in the final battle in the novel kills me, because it is a culmination of all his development, and is absolutely a line he would have never told in the beginning. That is also why the times where he tries to sacrifice his life for something in the novel hits so hard, because he truly goes against everything he ever wants and is working for, and is a decision that can only be taken by Klein in his shoes. Anyway thank you for reading my essay! I understand your point, He isn't a character that is everyone's cup of tea, and he isn't yours, which is perfectly fine. I just wanted to share a little bit on what makes him one of my favorite charecters.
@@half_dead4306 Thank you for your essay here. Yeah. That one line at the end was exactly so shocking and impactful because of that---because one of the things I admire about Klein so much is that he DOES value his own life. He protects it, he's done so much to be cautious and work for the things in his life, for survival and for his goals. But him saying that wasn't out of character at all. Because he's a sentimental guy too, and he's come this far for a reason. In his hands, the world will be better off than in someone like Amon's to minimize the damage, and he knows himself well enough to know that. He really did get attached, and because of that, some things became more important than others.
For people that didnt know, all best selling novels (including those famous one that make it to the big screen) pales in comparison with RI. However LOTM has some good plots, especially book 2 (on going). The down side of book 1 compare to RI are: The ending is too fast; the created world is abit small; not too many characters, most are swallow, and has no big impact; MC has easy plots and not much challenges (MC acts like 12 years old while bosses behave like 8years old kids... if you enjoy detective plays and mysteries, this will be 5/7 while RI is 10/10. IMO
It just shows you didn't fully understand Klein's character. That's fine. For me, Klein is a relatable person, at the same time, a friend. Im not really an emotional person, but when the story hit around volume 6,7, and 8, I cried. I won't explain why because the Klein you see is different from the Klein I see. RI is, of course, an incredible novel. Im not gonna compare it to LOTM. I just hope you understand that there is a reason why people loved Klein.
@@meyy3667 If there werent any good moments in book 1, i wont even brother read the 2nd. All ending fights and its conclusions are good (but not great - those ending are not special and you might find it in many others such as Tales of Demons and Gods/ battle through the Heaven/ Even Harry Potter (including in some manga like OP or Naruto). If you are crying just for that, I dont think you have read enough. If you want to know how good a book is, try to read it again many times. The challenging when writing RI focus on the MC whos surely pure evil (which is why it got ban) but somehow the readers still focus on reading and even cheer for him - like Dexter (a true killer but only kills bad guys). Nowadays, there are many recaps on different novels and movies, but none comes close to RI. The MC of others are either has super luck/strange-unique power/ got good noble/royal bloodline/ favor by God/ have great mentor/ plots armor/ get the girl/ consider good guy but kills others without bat an eye/ somehow all enemies are bad to the core, no one in between...
@@meyy3667 LOTM is a good book, especially book 2, and i also enjoy it very much. All those deaths that are close to Klein have a meaningful and emotional end. I also enjoy the slow detective plays and the semi-horror-ghost-story plays that the author is building (very good for a movie adaptation). After RI, like everyone, i suffer from finding the next novel to read. And after many tries and error, i came to LOTM. With not much expectation, LOTM1 did give me a nice surprise. However it could written and edit better, such as: - There were no explanation on how those people time travel, and for what purpose. - no explanation on how hangman and judgement got the artifacts that summon them to the grey fog, and at the same time, with Klein there. And hangman lvl were much higher but due to plot armor, thinks K is a god (it is unreal with his personal) - death angel somehow met with MC and become friend? and MC didnt die when looking at him? - Almost no set back. Plot armor for main is too much: all according to MC plan, some unknown just came to be and save the day. Demigod lost to some low lvl. - Amon, an angel, let MC escape multiple times. -MC and his team lvl up near the end is too fast. Anyway, it could use a good edit to fix many others unexplained plots..
@@eternal-silence911 didnt finish that short work? I am done with the 1st around 2 years ago and the 2nd one is on going. Tell me why do you think i havent finished it? And trust me, the 2nd one is better. But compare with Gu Zhen Ren's, both barely come off as average. Even abit lower than Infinity Bloodcore - and this is a semi-fail one, too.
IMO, i agree with you. However not many will think so, since RI requires the reader to have some "hard-core-knowledges" to truly understand the author's work. FY is a true final evil boss whos done all despicable bad things (except rape) but somehow the readers are still voting for him? Truly a genius work!
Klein is pretty tragic himself, got seperated from everything he loved in the blink of an eye without any explanation, and probably developed some form of bipolar disorder after pretending to be different people for so long, he's just good at coping
