Lords of Ragnarok and the Decline of Crowdfunding 

Hey! Rules claryfication from our side, as there seems to be 3 bigger rules misinterpretation in the video: Great Jarl Victory Condition - A player wins the game immediately when they have control over all Regions in 3 Lands. It is stated in the video that capturing and defending approximately 9-11 Regions with 6 Armies is almost impossible, suggesting a possible misinterpretation. The game ends right away when the player meets the victory condition, and it is possible to perform up to 6 Army Activations during the player's turn. In extreme cases, a player can start their turn with 3 Regions and still achieve the Great Jarl victory condition. Slayer Victory Condition - A player wins the game immediately by slaying the Boss (Loki). The condition has been deemed impossible to fulfill. While it may not be the most frequently achieved win condition and requires the player to adopt a different playstyle, it is definitely achievable (based on hundreats of playtests). Even without having maximum statistics (5 Might and 5 Wisdom, with 6 being the limit), a situation may arise where the player defeats Loki with a single turn. Starting the Hunt with 10 cards, it is possible to inflict all 5 Wounds at once, using 2 cards for each. It is possible that a misunderstanding of one of the Hunt's rules in this particular case made this mechanic more challenging, but it is difficult to judge based solely on the video. Ragnarok - Fulfilling the Requisites conditions triggers the start of Ragnarok during the game. There appear to be two misinterpretations here. Firstly, Requisites are only checked during the Build Monument Special Action. Secondly, while Ragnarok is active, the remaining victory conditions can still be met. These two clarifications can significantly impact the perception of the game and balance the occurrence of specific victory conditions.

Tom's chaotic energy is starting to infect other board game channels too 😂😂😂

I think we are falling into the same trap of video games as well. These games are getting bigger and bigger, yet I barely have enough time to dive in. Videos games are massive, and many now require a huge time sink to get into the "fun parts" (especially in the AAA stuff). Board games are like video games now, expensive and require time to learn but the market is time poor adults and families. It's become more and more off balance it feels like. I cannot justify buying a massive boardgame for $200+ that ends up being a dud and then I can't even sell it because the marketplace will be overcrowded with people trying to ditch a lemon.

This is how Quidditch players must feel, unless they are the seeker

7:40 The idea of playing a sport and then inserting another sport that is used to win the game is a pretty accurate description of Quidditch

Don't forget that this entire game - all the expansions, the minis, etc. - can actually be placed into only two of those boxes, with even just a crappy homemade foam insert. There's no reason it needs to have so many boxes.

The sad thing is that all I really wanted from a sequel from Lords of Hellas was an improved rulebook and something to tighten up the playtime a bit.

Well I've avoided any big mini-heavy KS for a number of years now and am glad, but I wanted to say I met Elijah at UKGE 2 years ago while he was trying to find his table and he's a lovely man I mistook for Tom. So another informative video here.

I ve played LoR quite a bit since I got it, and while our group isnt a big fan, a lot of negative things you stated are factually incorrect, or dont happen like this in normal gameplay. And I agree with you on some points of criticism, but you misrepresent too much to say I agree with you here, sorry. Examples: You dont need to defend 9 territories with 6 units. Land grab victories, while certainly too hard (I agree here) are achieved the very moment you control three lands, and that is when you pushed in and won the fights. You can EASILY grab 3-4 regions in a single good turn after you built up your forces and cards. Loki isnt unbeatable - I have in fact won a 5p game by boss kill. Once more, its too hard in relation to 5 temples, but thats it. Then, when Ragnarok triggers, the other win conditions are STILL IN PLAY! A 5 temple win is really easy when everyone rushes to the middle. It doesnt change the victory condition to Ragnarok only. And there are more, I am sorry to say.

Elijah Wood wishes he was Tom

The downfall of crowdfunding, and the rise of ... Tom.

As an apprentic game designer, I've learned so many times that concise, limited and direct play is often better than expansive, huge and tons choice gameplay which really slows down turns and fun for all players.

The only thing I want to see as stretch goals are expanded playtesting, professional rulebook editing, and a player reference sheet by Universal Head. Anything else pulls focus from the main product.

Dude... imagine making a game this big and gorgeous... then having a review like this.

More Elijah please - I loved him in Die Hard (Love the SU&SD cross pollination - Great stuff)

I recently almost got got by the crowdfunding campaign for the Heroes of Might and Magic III boardgame, because I'm such a big fan of the videogame. I think my hard rule to never kickstart shit is working out well for me. Great video.

You 100% had me with Elijah's lack of backbone and "Greecy Lasers" 😆😅🤣 A truly on-point review from Efka, cheers!

I've played it 3 times and it is a great game. Lots of fun. Only complaint is I wish the reference cards were on a single one faced card.

Hello. I only played two times at Lords of Ragnarok. I won each time, one time by occupying 5 temples and the second, by killing two monsters and Loki. That's curious. It seems we don't play at the same game :)

Nice to see Elijah and very glad i didn't back this one and generally avoid any games that contain boxes upon boxes of miniatures or so many hours of campaign gameplay that I'll be retiring before I'm finished.

Pretty sure that was Elijah Wood

'floating carrier bag that's trying to pass as a seagull' another brilliant line.

If players had to gang up to defeat Loki, that could be cool. Then they could have some sort of face off between their heroes. Or the heroes get powers that help with battles.

Seeing Bandwagonesque in the background makes you 100000% more credible on all things.

At first, conquering 3 lands seem impossible. But.... 1. You win instantly. You don't need to hold any territory to win. 2. Some lands exist of 3 regions. 3. Step 4+ mobilize amounts to a possible total of 7 army movements. Meaning you can achieve it from a position of holding 3 well defended regions with good access at the start of your turn. This seems doable.

Your board game channel is a rare gem indeed. You combine insight, humor, and integrity in a way that is both informative and entertaining.

Love the Tom cameo. Totally agree on bloated kickstarter games that need more playtesting and design thought. My group played Nemesis Lockdown for the first time on wednesday and what a bloated fernickety overly fiddly and overly long experience that was. But at least you get a bunch of minis and tokens and like 5 different decks of cards.....🙄 Made me long for a good Knizia.

Lords of Ragnarok is still one of my all time favourite games, and this didn't change my view. I will still highly recommend this as a fun game with excitement in each turn.

Always appreciate the insight, humor, and integrity. You are one (channel) of a kind.

Never understood the boardgaming communities obsession with Crowdfunding when there are so many amazing games in the world already. Seeing that pile of crap that will never be played cause the base game is bad just angers me, all that plastic for nothing.

I’ve only ever once delved into Kickstarter and it was for Lords of Hellas. This was back when I was just buying games faster than we could play them. The “get” was way grander than the “have”. When Lords of Hellas finally arrived I was like a kid at Christmas time. The amount of…stuff! It’s been years since I got it and we’ve STILL only ever played the base game. NONE of the expansion stuff. In fact, I’ll probably sell the game as I also realize now…it isn’t that great, really. I stopped buying games a while back and have sold much of my collection. I’m trying to whittle down what’s left to about 20 games. Thankfully, I came out of the other side of the “buy buy buy buy” addiction that many board gamers still have. I actually feel sorry for people with rooms FULL of games. Seeing all those shrink wrapped games, unplayed…the reason for people doing that is actually a tell tale sign of deeper problems.

I'm so glad I got to play the prototype for this. It allowed me to save a couple hundred bucks. Awaken realms continues to miss for me.

Darkest Dungeon was my last crowdfunded game purchase...probably forever. So many downsides to crowdfunding versus very few upsides. Retail is king for board games, especially since my local and online retailer has copies of every single successful Kickstarter anyways.

Totally agree and so pleased I only backed Oathsworn at Standee core box level and I am very pleased with it, though not impressed with the mystery box as no gameplay value and the wrong scale to use as a mini in other games I own. Just received Uprising Kings of Titans expansion and it's also a great game, great value masses of gameplay as opposed to masses of plastic, the acrylic standees are great. This year I have shunned many boardgame/skirmish crossovers due to the huge boxes of minis needed to get gameplay as I have no room or spare disposable income for boxes of plastic, for games that at their heart are board games and the plastic is cosmetic only, though I do enjoy TT skirmish games and do buy and paint minis for those games.

Weird, because I really love the game! Is beautiful and so engaging, that as you go into it , you want more...

I've played only a few games of this, and I've seen Loki killed and a victory won by controlling 3 lands. This sounds like a review made by evaluating the rules in theory without actually playing. EDIT: I will admit that the quality of the expansions for this one pales in comparison to Lords of Hellas. The expansions for LOH were interesting and modified the game in unusual but fun ways, but the expansions for LOR failed in this regard.

Awaken Realms seems to have an ongoing struggle balancing their own lofty design philosophies with what real-life humans will actually enjoy playing.

Changing my backing strategies from getting everything for games that have a lot of potential to just getting core boxes has been immensely successful. I strongly recommend that. If the game is that good, the core box will be good. Doubling the cost to not meaningfully impact enjoyment, or worse, to overwhelm you each time you try to play it, is a bad idea.

I almost spit my drink when the Tim Robinson clip showed 😂

A "armies on a map" that I can recommend is Hyperborea. I played it only a handful times due to me not owning it and how hard it is for me to find players for this kind of game, but I had fun. It has a "deckbuilding mechanism" where you buy/collect colored cubes into a bag and draw them to feed your action tablet with.

Damn, I was really sad to see that the game wasn't available to buy at SPIEL '23 today. Now I am glad. Thanks for saving my money. ❤

I've stopped bothering with these giant dudes on a map games a long time ago for pretty much this reason (also I already have no more room for games, I don't need a bunch of giant boxes). Your recommened alternatives of Kemet and Inis are my favorite dudes on a map games (besides Memoir '44, which is my favorite), so excellent suggestions. I suspect I'd like Ankh too, just haven't played it yet.

If I remember correctly, there was a "have 3 lands" winning condition in Lords of Hellas also.It was really fun when you mentioned that it is impossible. Btw. I bought a used copy of Lords of hellas last year, it looked really cool with the minis. Since I usually don't play games with minis, that was actually cool. But in the end, we just played two times, because even Lords of Hellas was (for me and my game group) already a game, that doesn't connect its parts very well. As alternatives I could also recommend Circadians: Chaos Order or Root. I know Cthulhu Wars is a popular game in the area control genre, but I haven't played it yet.

It sounds like quidditch. A bunch of people are playing the game scoring points, then some person catches a golden ball the game ends and the amount of points they get usually makes the rest of the points not matter.

We are a group of wargamers (and boardgamers) that like miniature painting and advanced games that include direct conflict and are NOT too EURO, our favourite is Rising Sun, and LoR seems like one of the few alternatives, Kemet could be there... maybe, but Ankh was not well received.

It's the Quidditch problem. Most of the team spends time scoring goals, but you can't possibly score more points than you get for capturing the Golden Snitch. That's what happens inventing a fictional game, it's not tested by real people. Crowdfunded games needed to be better than fictional games.

Lol Greecy lasers 😅 I loved that game.

4:15 Reminds of when I learnt that the prestige armor/mini-campaign expansion for The Green Armor in Kingdom Death: Monster wasn't achieved during their development and that they were also not sure anyone could defeat the Level 3 Dung Beetle Knight. Mind you, that was a fledgling company back in 2014-15 ish and they've a much better approach to playtesting now. It coming from Awaken Realms in 2023 is absolutely mindboggling.

There's a 1 thing I am doing with my kickstarter pledges. Does not matter if I pledged all-in. I am only opening and playing the minimum to see if the game is coherent and works for me. I once fell this trap of unboxing everything and then selling it afterwards without making it all the way for core experience, with a loss. It was Tainted Grail og edition, I tried to like it.

Great review, i wish we see more of those when campaign is live on crowdfunding, games on them are getting more and more expensive...i skipped this one, but i do own few AR games (Etherfields, ISS Vanguard, Castles of Burgundy), but its not only them, many companies focus on more "plastic" then game play sadly....keep up great work, kind regards from Croatia.

Thank you for sharing your experience of the game and reviewing it and sorry to hear it was such a mess.

Frankly, games that release so many thousands of expanded options before I even touch them whiff a bit of desperation. It suggests that the core box just couldn't be that good, if you need aaaaall this extra stuff to actually complete the design. At least with on-shelf purchases I can buy the game, and make it EARN the expansion - I can buy Twilight Imperium and if it gets a hundred hours of play and I enjoyed all three games of it, I can go get the extra stuff and see if that helps. If the game is really that good, it will see enough play to keep in print, and I will simply pay the premium when I choose to buy more.

Instead of doing the soccer analogy, you should have just mentioned Quidditch. "Sorry guys, nothing you did in the game in the past hour mattered because Harry caught a snitch"

Crowdfunding did it to itself. I'm on year 3 of waiting for a board game I've already paid for.

10:15 Thank you! This point became clear to me after backing The Edge Dawnfall, which is actually an extremely good 1vs1 skirmish game but the 3 campaigns are simply undercooked and broken. They made a 1.5 kickstarter version where they promised to fix the campaigns, I backed it and tadaa they left the campaigns completely untouched and produced more plastic instead. Awaken Realms is constantly making these big, complicated games but clearly have no time to design and test them properly. CMON is also producing tons of plastic with unbalanced gameplay but their niche is to produce simple games which makes houseruling that much easier. Awaken Realms would do themselves a favour by adopting a similar approach and just hash out simple games a lá Zombicide while selling all the expensive plastic Kickstarter backers could dream of.

For solving the problems enounced here, I have modified the rules: 1/ killing loki does not end the game and he can be defeated with 4 points of damage on the 5 he has. The two victory conditions (temple and territories) remains. 2/ After a combat with a monster, player must have a minimum of combat cards equivalent of their score of wisdom. They can take some new ones if needed. 3/ After the ragnarok is complete (one turn), no need to be near Iggdrasil , players counts 1 point by region, +2 if a built temple, 5 by territory, 10 by killed monster , 1 by realm alliance et 20 if loki defeated This way it is a run to get power, alliances, territories till the end with the ragnarok PS: values for each goal may need to be furthermore tested.

I bought into Lords of Hellas which was an incredibly uneven experience. It's a case where they really just needed to cut one or two ideas to focus on best ones, and they'd have had one of the best troops-on-a-map games. When the Ragnarok campaign was running, it didn't look like they'd actually learned anything from the Lords of Hellas development. They were still running with an everything-and-the-kitchen-sink design. I enjoy some of Awaken Realms games, but I feel like their development cycle lacks critical feedback. Most of their games have some cludge that deters from the experience. Sometimes it's more significant than that. And, they're not applying any lessons learned when they develop sequels.

I could never bring games like this to the table with my group. All the best to the ones that can.

I've actually mostly turned away from Kickstarter. The last two campaigns I backed were the reprint of "Uprising: Curse of the last Emperor" and "Nature Incarnate", the latest Spirit Island expansion, because the base game with all expansions the already exist is still my favorite game... and getting the Target-timed-exclusive "Horizons" would have been more difficult otherwise here in Germany. I specifically do not trust big multi-box campaigns... and as a bonus point I like to support my FLGS, that provides a great environment to play games and has also been a platform for me to find not only be people to play with privately, but also new friends. Luckily I never got burned too hard personally by any campaign. (Rising Sun was a good experience for me and my groups and I only backed the base stuff of Dark Souls.)

I love your eloquence, insight and honesty. A gaming hero. I need games to be shorter and sweeter and... cheaper? I now focus on shorter and sweeter games - and solo games at least let me have more options of when to play.

Thanks for the vidoe. I've played this game X3 times and did not enjoy any of the experiences. I thought it was just my lack of comprehension but your video confirms for me what I felt. I invested 333 Euro on this my first kickstarter (and probably last). The professionally painted characters arrived a few days ago and sadly I don't think they will ever hit the table. So far it's been 111 Euro per play, I really wanted this one to work but sadly it doesn't. There are sooooo many other games I could play instead of this - so into the dustbin of history this one goes. The worst part about it is even if I wanted to offload it I doubt anyone in Australia would give me $500 AUD in partial compensation for what I outlayed.

"Efka pulls out a sign that reads: FUN" is my favorite caption

Remember when the cost to ship from china went back down, but board game companies didn't change lower their cost to ship? I remember cuz it's now.

I thought Ragnarok checks are only made during statue building? Cards aren't flipped immediately right? That sounds like the game is ending prematurely. Not saying the window to win via alternate strategies doesn't close rapidly but it's not full blown broken...

Even when I backed Lords of Hellas I kept thinking the whole time "Man I just wanna read the graphic novel version of this."

Excellent video. I learned a long time ago to stop chasing the minis. I was all gung ho over them, in the beginning. I ended up with big box games that I didn't like. I sold almost all of them. Now, I'm much more interested in game play. I'm perfectly fine with standees now. This is why I love games like Gloom of Kilforth. Small box game, with standees, that's fun to play, less expensive and easy to store.

I don't think I've ever seen a person look that sad while kicking a sportsball :(

According to some “game designers” with their hands in the youtube money pot - “there are no terrible or bad games, only poorly designed games”. That doesn’t seem to matter anymore when they flashbang you with fancy minis and colorful expansion boxes. Thanks for your video post.

Love the crossover with Shut Up and Sit Down!

Friend of mine got the whole set for this game, basically every darned box. I went to check the reviews and then pointed to him the stuff you raised here. He basically said you (and other critics) were clearly too stupid to understand the rules correctly. Well, as your answer to Awakenrealms comment here shows, you did not misread the rules or misinterpret them, you were in all points correct. I wish my friend good luck with the game tho, but suspect it will be one of those that are soon abandoned by his gaming group.

Always read the rulebook before you back anything. If there isn't one, ask if they will supply one. The red flags usually start by reading it or being refused it lol

I miss the days where I could count on two fists the number of big publishers: Rio Grande, Z-Man, Fantasy Flight, Queen, etc. When they had skin in the game, the were more likely to publish quality games and support them long term. Now quantity of games surpasses quality. Good games have a harder time seeing a second print run. I still think of my best games are my flashy nor contain half a barrel of oil in plastic pieces. Pragmatic I tend to like crowd funding when someone prints an older out of print game.

“We did way too much!” Perfect

Totally had it with crowdfunding ,I have never been happy with the little I have recieved

So it's just another classic Awaken Realms game..

Thankfully I'm not drawn to much that is offered on KS. I seem to have a narrow field of interest and have only bought into 3 KS projects. 2 were fine, the third resulted in my KS' company going bankrupt as the games arrived at the fulfillment centers and have been sitting there for almost a year. I keep looking at KS projects and see slight variations of other games and a new edition of an older game with even more minis then before. For a board game anything over 30 minis sets off an alarm for me. I feel at that point the game company is going full FOMO on it's customers.

ISS Vanguard is my favourite Awakened Realms game compared to Etherfields and Tainted Grail. Interested to see your thoughts.

Any chance the positive Awaken Realms review Efka teased is Castles of Burgundy Special Edition? Excellent review. The excessive crowdfunding discussion is something that needs to be brought up often in our industry.

I've been following dragon eclipse (DE) campaign trying to decide to pledge. this video and latest few updates from DE campaign are making me decide against backing. DE campaign is adding more and more cost and backers who thought they were 'all in' are being asked for more. Im not convinced by gameplay videos i've watched either. I have 1st tainted grail and ISS vanguard with hundreds spent on AR games. Thank you NPI for your continued wonderful videos and integrity.

I agree with you. Crowdfunding is on a decline, despite some games making millions for some reason... hell, I just backed awesome "The Isofarian Guard" but I know, I won't back another game ever... in my entire life, even if I resurrect several times.

I’m always curious if it’s possible with all those pieces to make house rules that could result in a more enjoyable game.

Northgard imo is also a good option as miniatures on board (risk) option.

It’s depressing to see this because I just spent two week’s painting it. So if you just like the minis I have most of them painted for you on my channel. We had an good time at two players but I felt some of that. I was thinking a higher player count would have helped but maybe not.

Nah, this game is fire. I didn’t expect much from this game and it absolutely blew me away.

pretty cool how you got elijah wood to collaborate with you. Wow he is such a star. 😮

Ah, Elijah from Shut Up & Lie Down.

I always thought these games mostly sold to people who wanted a variety of miniatures for RPGs or just collecting.

Great review; there was a lot of potentially confusing nonsense to get across and you aced it.

Aimlessly pushing miniatures around for hours seems to be the target market ever since the first Zombicide KS. Awakened Realms and other sharks exploited the model even further, quickly realizing that hype and flash = KS goldmine. Add in forced scarcity along with a thriving scalper market and you’ve got the classic Mattel model that every TCG player has emptied their wallets into since the 90s. Addictive collectors are gonna addictively collect (speaking from personal experience). Hell, I doubt the majority of backers for most of these bloated boxes of FOMO will ever play them more than once, if at all. It’s exploitative consumerism at its worst and it really has degraded a once thoughtful process into serialized marketing campaigns and rules that are largely written post go-to-market. For someone who has enjoyed hobby board gaming for most of his life, the fixed prominence of slapdash designs has been difficult to both understand and endure.

6:55 No - Ragnarok cards only flip during the Build Monument special action, they don’t immediately flip. The Ragnarok cards are really a timer, much like the day and night cards are in Mage Knight, making the need to upgrade fast and furious.

I've definitely become more discerning about backing games. I'm seeing too many big box games that are undercooked

Man, Nordic bullet dodged. I was backing this until the last minute and changed my mind.

I backed their This War of Mine game ages ago, and it was so finicky and fiddly and hard to play through because of how it described actions and overall gameplay (or largely didn't) that I refused to back another of their games.

Ranking the games featured in this episode in order of highest quality to lowest quality: 1) Lords of Ragnarok

I came to the realization years ago that a game needs a ton of expansions and bits to be “enjoyable” the game is more than likely broken. If the base can’t stand on its own it’s a red flag.

Thank you for this review, Efka! The "must add more photogenic content at the expense of enjoyability" syndrome has defined Awaken Realms since the beginning. Admitting that a non-native speaker with a couple english lessons probably shouldnt be writing the rulebook AND scenarios might also help. Smh.

I was on the fence on this one but passed because it wasn't a true Lords of Hellas remake as I prefer that theme. So glad I did now.

Congratulations brother. I’m so tired of way of business with thousands mini boxes. Cheers from Brazil!

Impossible. My group has a kill Loki victory. I think you guys might have misread the hunt rules

Honestly... I saw it in my FLGS and looked at the minis, I wasn't even bothering with the game behind it because I thought the minis were really nice... But with a video like this out there, it makes me glad I was only looking and not actually investing in a game that didn't quite hit the mark.