Lost Girls Of Panama Pt.2 : Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon - The 11 Days 

Whole 15secs shorter than the last week’s vid , friends 😅 This is the one where I need all of my Hercule Poirots, Sherlock Holmes’ and Miss Marples! What are your theories on the 11 days? 🕵🏻‍♀️

Obviously it doesn't make any sense why these two girls would go off the trail and not turn around at the summit, especially considering how poorly equipped they were for the "indigenous" trail (very little water, no proper apparel, no machete, no guide etc.) Also if they got lost, wouldn't they have realized it much much earlier? Why would they place the first emergency call so late? Why would they wait for hours, way beyond the point of no return (sunset) to place an emergency call? Wouldn't you panick much earlier, knowing that you won't be able to make it back safely once the sun sets? Also since the girls documented about everything how come there are no more pictures of the girls past day 1? And the most damning evidence is the one deleted picture. If they were really fighting for survival, why would they waste time deleting pictures after the fact? My theory is the girls were lured off trail by someone they trusted and thus only realized way too late (a couple of hours later) in what predicament they actually were. I presume the girls met their grizzly demise much early on, that is why there are no messages, no pictures of them past day 1. It seems quite obvious that the tour guide Feliciano would clearly appear as a prime culprit since he had intimate knowledge of the surroundings as well as being known to the girls prior and also conveniently owning a farm/house in the vicinity of the trail and he was also one of the few people who knew exactly where the girls were headed.

People talk about the jungle in Panama as if it was the Amazon Rainforest, which is bigger than countries. Panama is as narrow country, from the "El Mirador" of the Pianista Trail, the distance, in straight line, to the city of Boquete, is only 5 kilometers and, to the other side, heading the atlantic ocean, there are only 25 kilometers. How in the world, someone keeps lost in a place so close to civilization, with several trails in the area, locals living in the forest, searching teams, 12 sniffer dogs, helicopters etc.??!!

So weird cause who is this Feliciano dude to report them missing? Two tourists didn’t make it to his tour and so what? They could be doing other things on their time. The guy is a weirdo guilty or not. I mean imagine changing your mind last minute and going swimming instead and this fricking tour guide decides to go through your shit in the airbnb

I pray this case gets solved. It's difficult to imagine that these girls simply got lost. It's more likely they were kidnapped and murdered. Just seeing those night time photos is like something out of a horror movie. Also you are simply not understanding the most critical information. The girls had planned to do volunteer work which they had specific dates where this was arranged before they left. Now obviously they would of double checked these arrangements before they left The Netherlands, so why did they say that they had the dates wrong?

After 8 days with no or little food, and the stresses of being lost, the nighttime photo shooter could also be insane by that time, snapping away for no good reason.

Fascinated by this case so creepy and unsettling never go camping or hiking unless with a big group.Thanks for your detailed coverage.

1.you have to say that you would never do a day hike with not charging phone battery especially in a thrid world country you never been to and without a guild. 2. having got lost!! I know that without water for more then 3 days i'm dead so I wouldn't be that worried about the phone battery and trying to make it last over a week!. 3. If I made the first emergency call at 1639, I would be at least trying to call every 30 mins until say 2200 on that first night and also the second morning as soon as i wake up or it gets light, I would think that by say 8-9 am people would know that we had not returned home previous night and someone would raise the alarm to police ect... This is why soo many people suspect foul play in this case. whichever side of the case you think is right you can't explian this total lack of calls on first three days.

If Kris & Lisanne got lost & succumbed the entire tragedy can be chalked up to “prepare better.” BUT that’s not why millions of people worldwide are addicted to trying to understand this case. If the truth is what many of us believe: crime, then an entire country stands indicted and $7.5 billion per year is on the line

"In life it's not which path you take, it's whose path you cross" (Wolf Creek 2) Frank van der Goot, a teamleader during searches by Panamanian and Dutch volunteers said:- "The area where this is supposed to have taken place, simply is not an area where you can get lost. Anyone who is suggesting the girls lost their way and claiming this to be an actual possibility, has simply never physically been on the trail itself." What has been suggested, especially by F, is that the girls far from straying off the trail kept going along it for some reason. 1:19:15 Well in the early hours in a rainstorm(first one of the season actually) would be the idea time to us flash photography and not be seen by any random person. The best way to escape justice is make it look like there was no crime, and for that you cannot leave any witnesses. Which entails committing a far more serious crime. The night photos show someone with clean hair, not at all greasy, and this was a week after she went missing and had access to shampoo. The ultimate r**e hack is liquidating the victim and then making her demise look like an accident. I think Kris was the target and kept for a week. That was a live Kris in the night photos; location is is most likely in the area behind F's ranch and near where Kris's shorts were found, so about two and a half hours walk from Alto Romero.. To me, if that was a face it was not the face of Lisanne but Kris with her low set projecting cheekbones and somewhat receding chin. Lisanne's remains suggest a jungle grave, she likely was in it by the 3rd.

My theory is that they got lost at first but then somebody did find them and instead of helping them find their way back, they simply took the chance to rape and murder the girls or maybe they didn't even need to murder them but only hurt them enough for them to die of exposure. Later, when the search was at their peak, the perpetrators could have hidden the bodies and cut them in small pieces to scatter them around hoping animals would feed on them. 😢

why the dont write a message in the phone in the ending for there family? very mystery

And why do you not comment the fact the two girls have switched the Rucksack which underlines the theory that they made it back to the start?

Was their camera capable of recording video? If so I was surprised they didn't leave a video message, especially Lisanne considering her diary and being homesick and missing her parents.

Thank you so much .been reading on this in out day night past 5 days across the RU-vid platform. And l must say you have done the best amongst them all rest of the RU-vidrs. For once->So very detailed vlog time/days of their activities from 1st right up to 11th..prior to coming across this vlog of yours back forth murder /lost/murder But on listening to your vlog today now--> 1) they both were lost and died finally 2) Lisaane and Chris were together right till the very end ..3) end of 2 beautiful souls 4) if only the school hadn't denied them to start their work on 1st both them would be alive This my conclusion ..Cheers Keep up the good 👍 job your doing 👏...

I got stuck with all my different theories, so I took a step back, looking at the picture as a whole. The girls vacation was going well until the language school turned them down. Why could the school not find anything else for the girls to do? Surely there should have been some work needed. Anyway, that is when it all starts going sideways for them. I started to wonder who organized this trip, how did they found out about the volunteer positions? Was it an organized set up from the get-go? What disturbed me so much about the pictures on top of the trail is the excessive thumbs up thing they are doing. I get odd vibes from that. Also, no way on getting by the bleached bones. Hair is dry because they are in a cave, taking pictures looking up. When you turn some of the night pictures, it can make sense. There is a guy on RU-vid (backpacking coach) who made an excellent video about that. I really thought you did an outstanding job on both parts, can't wait for the 3rd!!!!

Useful comments Maja, but why do you never talk of the photo on which you presumably see Kris and Lisanne swim with two local guys?

Hello Maja and everyone I have read and heard many theories about this case. yours is really well detailed and clear. which is what got me thinking. assuming it's a crime I wonder... in those 11 days that Kris and Lisanne (assuming they were in the jungle at least because they kept reaching out). Doesn't it seem unlikely to you that the third party was committing a crime while the emergency services were swarming. that third party must also have been aware of that search by then. it seems unlikely to me that they would not have been held hostage in the jungle, but somewhere else. because then they would simply not be in possession of the phones.

Regarding picture #509, the interplay between the GPS tracking on the camera and the time zone demarcation issue (Costa Rican border) needs to be explored more. I recently heard a great explanation of how a pic can be either deleted or "overwritten." automatically because of an internal clock change. For #541, I believe what we're seeing is not a face or hair, but the flash reflecting off the large boulder with the twig collection on top.

Hi Maja I’m back to watch all four parts again! You deliver info in an unbiased manner which is very helpful with this case as many have landed on their theories prior to making videos (and all the evidence) fit what they believe. I will be posting comments as I work through all 4 parts again… I think the change in settings on the iPhone just moments before dialing emergency is very indicative that the girls were still in possession of their phones at that point. I am also wondering if the data found on the phones would show if they used the flashlight function?? Maybe the Samsung on overnight meant they used flashlight and possibly were on the move? Also the pin removal to access control center would allow a quicker view of cell service, time, and I believe access to the flashlight if the phone had capability wouldn’t it? Just some thoughts on the phone activity. I’ll keep posting anything I find intriguing

let's clarify that mine are all assumptions so things could have gone very differently I found this case about ten days ago on the internet on RU-vid and it bothers me that these two girls who in my opinion were murdered do not have justice here in Italy there is a saying “THINKING BADLY ABOUT OTHERS MAKES SIN…” “…but often one guesses” often used by Giulio Andreotti and in this case there is nothing that leads me to think of an accident 1) Looking at photos 580 and 541 if you hadn't seen the rest of the photos you would have ever associated those photos inside a jungle (I think not) so who says those photos weren't made to make believe that kris and lisanne were there in the jungle (I'm not an expert but if some expert photographer can tell us if it's possible to make changes to the photo by changing the date and time it would be appreciated)!!! 2) what makes you think that the girls were stuck in the jungle, just the fact of having seen those photos taken from 1.30 to 4.10 hence the persistence of the authors to stay more hours in the jungle let's say that these photos had been taken in 10 minutes, you might have thought that someone had gone there ten minutes had taken those pictures and gone but making it last more hours was more believable that Lisanne and kris were lost and it would have had a different effect in the eyes of those who would have seen the photos later and maybe that's exactly what the authors wanted us to believe so hence the need to spend more hours in the jungle, so it was enough for them to spend half a night taking insignificant photos in the jungle, maybe even away from the pianist and mirador ,( because as far as I know this location has never been identified) putting 541 and 580 between them to make it look like Kris and Lisanne were there for a week in the jungle, injured, and missing while perhaps they were imprisoned elsewhere and perhaps even near this place!!! If it really happened, it would explain why no photos were taken between April 2nd and 7th and even after until 11am kris' cell phone was turned back on so it's assumed one of them was alive (but I think whoever turned it back on is an outsider, it would explain why some of the girls' remains were found far from the mirador (they were taken), it would explain the fact that the jungle searches were inconclusive!!!3 I also have my doubts about who made the emergency calls when we discovered that these calls were only made after the backpack was found and the phones analyzed so whoever made those calls knew there was no signal in fact 'the only time the signal was caught instead of trying again they switched off In a nutshell, the cell phone did the opposite of what two people who wanted to be found would have done!!! Ps not to mention the pin of the missing photo and other things that don't add up or like the mysterious deaths of local youths so I wonder how the Dutch government passed the official story of the accident an accident would have had less whys and more answers!!!

My understanding is the girls freedom of action ended at the creek with photo #508. That photo indicates a serious distraction and the fun is over. Missing #509 was of the approaching influence. The abductor was not hi-tech and was letting them use their cell thinking communication had to be verbal. They were "captured and loosely controlled for several days. I can't imagine the "end game".

Another thing is of mine. Is if they can tell the time of death or how long of death why is it not compared to the very last pics taken with the phone. It would help with everything

The village woman who found the backpack is Feliciano's coffee farm worker . She said what Feliciano instructed her to say. The backpack is given to her . Not found by her . Think about this , how big is the chance that she casually saw the backpack somewhere in the jungle ? Less than minimal chance and at the same time the professional and trained Dutch Rescue Team with dogs found nothing ? The Dutch girls can move , they should have met someone in eleven days . Foul play for sure.

What proof do we have that the girls booked a tour with Feliciano for the 2nd? Feliciano said he never even spoke to them before, so how can they have booked a tour with him?

Watching again 😁 best video on RU-vid

I would like someone to look and see when those last pics when your talking about the SOS pic and the timeline of the one phone that couldnt get the phone that was locked. Could we get a timline of those attempts and the last pictures. Bcus you talked about the phone locked before the SOS pic

Like dide said. If they never made it to the river how did there backpack make into the river with nothing messed up and still nicely folded in the bag and how was 1 of each girls shoes found next together and 1 had a foot still in it. Plus some pics that was deleted that would have been taken when they was dead im guessing. Bcus you never gave a time line of when they died according to the timenof death and the last pics taken or who tried to get into there phone. Foul play comes from a foot still in side a shoe and another from the other girl found next to it. You just didnt put 2&2 together. The real question is still what happened and WHO did it

Eu jamais vô na ideia de ninguém de ir num lugar daquele eu vi um vídeo de um rapaz fazendo essa trilha até o memorial das meninas lugar sombrio escuro pesado e perigoso e muito tempo de caminhada e pra quem não tem experiência se perde do nada

17:00 ish: (speculation) -the pictures with smiles are innocent and legit. -the pictures without smiles are taken after someone encounters them -this person may or may not be Guide F and or that young man who was found dead -they try to pretend they aren't scared, he pretends he's not a threat, both parties fail but the charade goes on for 3 hours past picture 508 -this man is captures on picture 509, this picture breaks the charade and violence ensues, man steals camera/memory card, perhaps entire backpack -lisannes foot is broken in this encounter, but both girls escape, perhaps more injuries are sustained -lisanne is more physically fit than kris, at some point on day 5 the man/men catch up -malnourished and sleep deprived, kris is captured. this could have occurred near where her shorts were found, lisanne escapes again, running on swollen knees and a broken foot -lisanne finds refuge at the location of the night phots, frantically calls 911, in and out of consciousness -she hears or thinks she hears helicopters, or knows she's dying and begins frantically sending flashes out into the sky, her only form of communication (the photo of kris' head is hard to explain with this theory so maybe it's coming off the rails) Both girls perish, their belongings are collected by the man/men, their bodies are collected, carried by cows to hide and wait for the reward

Photo 580 doesn't tell us anything about Kris' location or condition. It makes no sense as a location marker for finding her body, because it doesn't mark the location at all. One foul play theory is that Kris' head is not attached to her body in this photo. It's so very carefully zoomed in to just show her hair, but not reveal anything of her face, neck, shoulders. What's special about her hair? Nothing to Europeans, but we know that some Panamanian men fetishised 'exotic' blonde women.

Off trail travel in 3rd world countries is tricky. Topo maps are treated as military secrets, not available. You should carry a hand held GPS like a Garmin, and mark waypoints as you travel.

So when we are talking about this photo shop pics. Are we talking about pics taken off there phone or off other websites. Bcus i find it really hard to believe that these girls that are lost hurt and close yo death. Took the time to Photoshop any pictures. I say foul play bcus of how everything in the bag found are nice and neat and one girls foot was still in her sock and boot. Bcus they found 1 boot/shoe from each girl was found. But one had a foot in it that was still in the sock and it still had soft skin

At 11:00 Jeremy Kryt, writing THE article that put this story on the map (Daily Beast, 2019)stated in no uncertain terms that the Kremers & Froons opted to keep a substantial number of pictures (from all 3 devices) private. So far your reminding of this is one of the most salient points of the entire case. Folks? Does everyone get what this means? It means jaw-dropping images, heart wrenching images, images that mic-drop this case likely exist but are deemed inappropriate for the general public (per the families). And it is what it is.

You state as fact that they were in the jungle for 11 days. I don't think you can assert this as anything other than a conjecture, albeit a plausible one.

I would never leave the city centre or knowing I would not have where to charge my phone on 50% ever... that was the first mistake.. and then how those phones were operational for 11 days? it is beyond me.

The many attempts to getinto the phone really points to foul play I think, but I’m not totally convinced

Love your analysis and just finished part one. A French guy did a video of him hiking the trail in the rain and ive begun to think the girls really might have gotten lost. Please watch this video.

What if they didn’t realize that they got el mirador because of shot time to get there. And when they realize they are lost they couldn’t say if they pass for or if the didn’t go for the right rote?

1:02:14 The video of Kris's parents walking the trail with F, shows when Hans Kremers was thinking out loud about the girls having been in the paddocks, F interjected he had been to the entrance to the paddocks on the 3rd by _himself_ and saw no footprints in order to convince the parents that their daughter had not been in the paddocks. Less than 24 hours after Kris and Lisanne were reported missing and ten weeks before anyone else though it likely they had been behind the Pianista at all, he had correctly 'guessed', and what is more astounding been walking on the exact trail behind the Pianista that they had actually taken. Could be an educated guess given his knowledge of tourists and the area; yet when the police asked him why he alone had quickly surmised that KK and LS went behind the Pianista, which was initially thought unlikely, and only ten weeks later discovered to be correct, he said Eileen told him the girls had went behind the Pianista. However, Eileen said she told him no such thing and had not known that was where the girls had went anyway. Hardly the act of an innocent man and it was the grounds for his listing in the police file under the heading of 'suspects'. 1:06:09 I don't see what the search teams would have to do with a phone switch on. Kris and Lisanne did not have walkie talkies , just ordinary phones. They search and rescue teams were not bringing a signal transmitting tower with them. And these girls had voices and could scream, why not scream for help instead of ineffectually tinkering with phones on a silly schedule? They certainly regarding being 2on the move" if KK and LS could walk distances between the switch ons that would mean they were in open country and not deep jungle with overhead foliage that could muffle their voices. Also they would be able to see the sun and work out which direction they had to go in from remembering the suns position along the trail on the first day. Whoever made the first emergency call seems to have been able to see the sun and the mountain directly . An even more obvious way y to orientate themselves would be the incline, because they surely would realise they they had to ascend to get back up on the overlook / summit of the Pianista. They were never more than a few miles from the overlook because the river is supposed to have carried their bodies to where the remains were found after they had died upstream. Where the remains were is less than seven miles away.

You speak of the Delphi murder of the two girls. The murderer has been caught!!! He was a local man who continued to live life like nothing happened.

The guy making all the videos about Photoshop is insane. He's become so obsessed with the idea that he's lost his damn mind. And his credibility

First: thank you for this very detailed series (I just saw that there is a first part)! Very good documentation. What I don’t get is: I don’t understand, why the girls are so upset about the Fakt, that their plans were not going as they wished? That’s a fact that can happen. Everyday, every time in life. It’s nothing to be so angry or sad about. They just had to start over a little bit later. That’s all. Maybe frustrating, yes, but nothing to be worry about that much in my opinion. What I don’t get with my rational mind is the fact that so many people think about foul play… okay, it might be, but… just why? Why would two tourists be worth such a big effort? In a Jungle, it would be easy to get rid of the girls and the bodies after killing them. Why bleaching the bones, why removing this one picture by computer? Why all of that? I work with people who did crimes like that here in Germany. I work with people on probation and when they are out of prison after their crimes for rehabilitation. None of the clients I work with would do so much effort, especially not in the jungle of Panama. It’s possible that someone killed them. But why all this effort? Bleaching bones, manipulating the camera, the phones, the pictures at night in the Rain… doesn’t make sense to me at all, to cover or hide a crime. It could be done easier. That’s my opinion with many years of working with people who did things like this… And I heard much. Sadly. I also remember, at the age of early 20, me and my friends made many pictures within a few seconds, just in case one wasn’t as good, so we could choose the best picture later. It’s not a mystery to take a few pictures in a row within a few seconds, especially when you are young. In 2014, people didn’t take that effort into pictures as today, with Instagram and all the selfie stuff going on, while people are searching for the best place and best lighting to have a really great shot. We made a few pictures instead. Things have changed since 2014. Also, I don’t get why someone would photoshop the pictures. The scenario, someone followed the girls or had the plan to rape an kill them, should keep the backpack, the corpses, the camera and their phones. He or they wanted to keep the dead bodies just to bleach random bones and bring them on different places in the jungle, place the backpack near the river to be found by a woman months later? They or he / she folded the shorts of one girl, placed it on a rock near this awkward bridge? Should take the camera to shot this weird pictures at night while it’s raining just to fool people and photoshop the pictures and remove one of them, just to hide evidence?? It would be much easier to get rid of the girls belongings in a village placed in the jungle. Much easier to get rid of the girls bodies while nature is doing it’s thing so that no evidence such as fingerprints or dna is left on the bones or bodies. Why this effort? As I said, I never heard a story like that from someone, who committed a crime like that, while I am working with people for rehabilitation. So, I don’t get it… the pictures which should actually show, that Lisannes neck and so on are edited.. in my opinion, you can’t even compare them. The angle of her face and head is different. The picture of her sitting in Bouquete and standing at the summit ist different. I don’t see any evidence for editing, sorry. It’s just not comparable. Both girls hadn’t enough water or food taken with them for a trip like that. Especially for this kind of temperatures. Maybe they didn’t know better, but you need way more water, even for a short trip, because you never know what’s happening during a trip, even on a trail like the one the girls wanted to take. They tried to call for emergency so many times, it is possible to get lost, even on a regular trail. I had this case by myself with a friend in the wintertime in a forest in Germany. We got lost for several hours and came out at night, 5 hours away from were we lived during holidays, just by taking one path wrong. Nobody believed us at first, cause everybody was sure, there is no way to get lost in the woods at all. But we did. If you are out of wate, it is hot, no food, no change to call emergency services, one girl is hurt (or both), you can panic. Maybe this happened. Why the hell would someone photoshop bracelets? It, sadly, could be this easy. At least a part of their missing. Maybe, there were other people involved. But I don’t believe, that this was the case the whole time. I don’t believe that the one or the many who maybe were involved took this much effort, just to hide evidence. I apologize for my English, I’m from Germany and English Isn’t not my mother tongue (obviously),

The bracelets are hair bands and you see them on Lisanne's arm when she's got her hair open. While in pictures with closed hair, you don't see them on her wrist. Their camera is not about to die and in that case it would make much more sense to record a little video or picture of themselves instead of taking nearly 100 pics of the sky. And sry, if they'd have their rucksack, why not eat the stuff they had in it?

1:43:51 At a museum in Peru, there are some mummies with extremely long hair and nails... The guides said that they kept growing after the individuals had died and that at some point this growth stopped 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wish people would stop calling it a jungle

Why will somebody want to photoshop?just destroy the camera.

The thing that makes me lean more towards the 3rd party theory is the charge on their cell phones. Phones in 2014 didnt hold there charge for all that long so I have a hard time believing either one of those phones could last 11days without being put on a charger at some point , especially since the phones were at 50% when they started and turning them off and on over and over again uses up alot of charge from the phones. My phone now got a very good battery life but it wouldnt last almost 2 weeks even if i started with 100%... its one question that really bothers me

Io credo siano state rapite e uccise ..per quanto riguarda la foto dei capelli di Kris in uno dei tanti video che ho visto si vede un mento(credo di Lisanne)quindi la foto non è stata scattata da loro

As for the bracelets , arw those hair ties ? Because i noticed that in the pic showing bracelets hair is down, pic of no bracelets her hair is now pulled back in a pony tail so were those hair ties doe the boyh girls hair, i just seen it in the pics you showed i haven't looked at the pics them selves since this is the first i heard someone mention bracelets.

Thanks!

Ya mataron a 2 de los q las mataron..los mismos de la banda los mataron.

First, thank you so much for all your work in doing this research and bringing us all these details. I don't see any evidence of photoshop. Don't see a dog. Nonsense. The camera & missing photo. If I understand correctly, it is being posited that there *should* be a gap on the SD card. And there isn't. And this proves that it was deleted by external pc software? Firstly, how did "Chris" get his hands on the SD card to check for gaps? Secondly, having no gap points to exactly the opposite - the picture was deleted before the next one was taken, thus the space was re-allocated before the next photo was taken - no gap left because that free space was taken up by the next picture. However, this is all down to the way that the camera and SD card handles file storage, deletion and reallocation of storage space. I'm not convinced that "Chris" has "proven" anything. I don't believe that they reached and crossed any monkey bridges. They would definitely have taken photos of the bridges if they had reached them safely. By 4:39 they were obviously in trouble. I think they had turned back to go home some time before this, probably by 4pm - as darkness would fall at 6:39 and they would need to get back to civilisation before that. I believe they were on their way back and had an encounter with someone who may have been following them - stalking them perhaps? Shortly after this, I believe they were both being held somewhere. They had limited access to their phones, and needed to keep trying the emergency services for help. They had windows of opportunity for this twice a day. Kris removes her pin so that she can check for a signal and dial out as quickly as possible. 8th - all the night photos - this is probably the night that the girls died. Certainly Kris. I think the camera was not in the possession of the girls by this time. I believe the last photo of Kris is of the front of her head, at a 3/4 angle with her hair completely covering her face. She's deceased. There's no reason for Lisanne to take this photo. I believe Lisanne had been dead for some time when this last photo was taken. It was taken by the abducter/murderer who was obsessed by the colour and texture of her hair. Her hair is dry and shiny because she hasn't been wandering about outdoors for 8 days - she has been indoors as a captive until this evening. Presumably with access to facilities to wash her hair. By the time the photo was taken, Kris may have been dead for some time - her face might have been covered by her hair because her murderer didn't want to look at it. The girls were thrown from a high place into a ravine/river postmortem. Beautiful girls. Terrible story. RIP. So that's my theory! So far! Thanks again for your hard work. :)

The part I wanna know is how did that backpack get there everything else could just be them getting into trouble on a monkey bridge and one of them not being able to move while the other one went to look for help would explain the wrong pin in the phone and why they where found at different spots. I think maybe that one got hurt was immobile and this is when they took those weird flash pics in the dark the one girl not wanting to leave the hurt girl alone in the dark while hurt stayed the night with her when she woke up maybe she found friend had passed away and this sent her into shock running with alone and trying to use a phone she doesn't have the pin for while going the wrong way.

brilliant work full of emotion?

I think it is a mistake to assume who was operating the phones or the camera. Both were covered with multiple fingerprints, breaking the chain of custody. Even NFI cannot verify the contents or the operator/s. FYI, anybody can easily append emergency call attempts to the user accessible recents log without a passcode.

a phone is like a diary. private, do you not your best friends Coad for her phone, left it too late to ask her. Has she was dead?

No hay traducción?

What is the deal with photoshopping? I don’t get it

what amazes me is? Lisanne 11 days in hell her friend badly injured, then died. she puts everything the phone the camera. back in the rucksack, zips it up and dies.?, why didn't she go back along the trail. Looking for help, she must have been injured., why didn't the searchers find them. how Farr did they go along the track. ?

the hair seems very clean.

Спасибо!🤗 интересно!

​​​​It is very easy to forget that Lisanne and Kris arrived in Panana on 15th March, arrived in Boquete in the afternoon 29th March, and disappeared only 3 days later in the afteroon 1st April. The conspiracy theorists talk as if they'd been in Boquete for months getting to know people and being being targeted for sinister puposes. Just over two weeks after arriving in Panama they dissapeared, within four weeks of arriving in Panama they were dead. With regards to the location of the night time photos and how they got to that location, I don't think we'll ever know. The location looks like it might have been at the bottom of a cliff, possibly near a river. Lisanne and Kris might have fallen down that cliff and Lisanne might have broken her matatarsal bones in the fall as the remains of her foot had broken bones. What we do know is that after choosing to hike off trail they became lost, and that is a key point. They didn't dissapear on the Pianista trail but after they had hiked off it. Photographic evidence proves this. Evidence of their phone usage also proves that they looked at Google Maps while on the Mirador summit so we can confidently speculate that they possibly chose to try amd find a natural feature such as a waterfall or stream or river. We can only speculate after they went off trail. I think that at some point they tried to turn around to find their way back to the Mirador summit but due to disorientation because they possibly followed cattle tracks and tracks made by flowing water during the wet seasons they became completely lost and realised that even if they could somehow find their way back that they couldn't make to the Mirador summit before night fall, (let alone decend down the other side to town), and started to panic, which is when the first emergency calls are made. The first night must have been extremely frightening. I suspect they huddled and kept quiet; the night time jungle noises, the drop in temperature, and fear must have been terrible. Personaly, the next day, as soon as it was possible to see, I would have walked up hill. No tracks? No problem - I'd have fought my way through and kept going up hill until I got a signal or reached the top. Why these two intelligent women didn't do that, we'll never know. Perhaps Lisanne was too badly injured (foot), so it was easier to go down hill? Or they followed a river/stream down hill hoping it would lead to people/a settlement? There are likely to be people/settlements/civilisation lower down than higher up and it is a basic survival tip to head down hill/down stream. Something that's never mentioned is that the Netherlands is completeky flat and as they were from the Netherlands, Panama's hilly mountainous country with thick jungle/forest could have cometely disorientated/confused them. You might also find this info' graphic interesting. If correct, (and it might not be), I've always felt it might provide a clue for the reasons behind the night time photos. If acurate it shows that the Servicio Nacional de Fronteras (Senafront) Special Forces might have been in the jungle at night looking for Lisanne and Kris using lights and loud speakers, unfortunately, we dont know what nights but if it was in the early hours of the 8th April, that's the answer to the camera flash question. www.allmystery.de/i/t7d40d0d00_ibioblucptypqw.png

Dog may not have gone with them at all

Disagree about river story cause I guess there is something weird in those 90 dark pictures you could focus much in every image and gonna leave that as opened mystery until you give me the answer by yourself

Love these videos. I believe they got lost however I don't understand how they got lost unless they really tried hard to go off trail. Would you really phone emergency services that quickly if you thought you were lost? That makes me think an accident happened. It hurts my brain. When you think you have figured it out something comes up that makes it not make sense. Obsessed with this case. Thankyou xx

I'm reading accross the RU-vid platform going in circles 🔵 lost succumbed but some things just don't add up. 5 people dying within span of a year all linked to the case.taxi driver drowned face down in 4" of water 💧 !!!!!! 2) lost people in the jungle always gravitate towards /near water streams Couldn't the search party helicopters searched those areas more closely . !!!!!!!!!!????????!

The "mirror object" is obviously the bottom of the pringles can...

Youre way behind in this case, leaving unexplored the more nuanced details of their psychological states, their ¨friendship¨, their regret of going to Boquete and a long list of other things that 98% of youtubers dont even know about.

Keep in mind all the pictures are photoshopped!

Few and small parts of their bodies were found, where are all the rest of their bodies? They were buried somewhere and only some parts were left in the forest to confirm death and stop searching.

👉foul play

1:46:23 I have went five days without food. Wasn't even all that hungry. No hallucinations and I could walk perfectly well for hours at a time. Given the fact of natural selection, and us being mammals, one would expect being hungry and especially thirsty to up ones game to use a laser like focus to find water and food; becoming highly motivated to seek them out. Being cold would put you in a bad mood. Not go around in circles seeing things. And Lemmings don't really don't jump off cliffs either. 1:48:00 That is a circular argument, if there is a cunning killer behind the deaths of Kris and Lisanne, then he did get away with it. How then can you call his tactics irrational? I would say the definition of an intelligent lawbreaker is that they commit no crime unless they already have a plan for how to avoid detection I think Kris and Lisanne were targets of an opportunity taken because the perpetrator had a way in mind whereby he would cheat justice. As he has. It is not automatically true that a perpetrator must be accounted intelligent simply because he is never caught, as when for instance the perpetrator committed the crime then left the victim to raise the alarm and make a complaint against him, yet nevertheless defeated the ends of justice by mere good luck. A perpetrator can use sense as well as anyone else and smart perps who can formulate and carry out a complex plan may not be the norm, but they do exist. Was the plan imperfect, and overthought? Yes, but the essential idea would be to commit a crime and then eliminate the only witnesses. The finding of the remains by him ten weeks later near his property was; completely unnecessary and sure to make him prime suspect for anyone with common sense. Shows he has a screw loose, but this would be expected in any perpetrator of a double homicide.

I was thinking... The picture of Kris' strawberry blond hair. I think Maybe she had a head injury and she made a picture of the back of her head. It looks like she is wounded and Maybe some dried up blood... therefor maybe she pulled her hair apart to see how bad she was injured and made a picture of it or maybe Lisanne did.

most of the photos are photoshopped. Other people get into it in detail but most are fake or tampered.

Thanks for covering this topic so well. I hope they one day receive the justice they deserve.

One big question I have! If there was no cover up or something wrong done on purpose, how could they search and not find them in so many days they survived? Is it logical? 11 days and nobody finds them? Locals or turists, people who know the area.

I went down to the rabbit hole of this case over the weekend, watched many video, yours is the most complete and unbiased. Thank you Maja

The latest update on this case is that there is a witness who has fled to costa rica. It concerns a woman who had a relationship with a gang member from Boquete. persons who witnessed 'the possible gang related murder' of the girls have now all been murdered or died in suspicious circumstances . One of the main 'suspects' is Henry G, the stepson of the tour guide Feliciano G. given the circumstances, it remains quiet on this case because people are just too scared to talk.

The white bracelet is her headband, you’ll notice it’s round her wrist when her hair is down and missing when her hair is up

If I am hearing this right ( 59:02 ) between the last call of day two and the first call of day three, the official confirmed information is that there was a full twenty two hours without an emergency call during which one of the girls' phone was switched on. Moreover on the day of the hike the very first emergency call, certainly made while the girls were still mobile and very far from any cable bridges, was followed by a 14 hour switch off of both phones, with no attempts to call obviously. But if the girls thought they were moving towards the signal tower and would be in range of the signal, why would they switch off their phones for 14 hours straight instead of walking for an hour then to switch on for a bit to try another call or just see if they had a signal, moving on then trying again. It doesn't make sense to completely switch off both phones for that long if they were on the move. Note that there was no switch on for a signal check at all until after 1pm on the morning of the second. Between 5pm on the 1st April and 9.30am on the 3rd of April (the last attempted emergency call) there were two periods amounting to a total 36 hours in which there was no call being attempted to anyone. And no attempted calls after the one on the the morning of the 3rd were made at all. Yet suddenly after that time there is a regular switch on check signal switch off twice a day routine. Then on the 11th the phone is not only switched off but replaced in the backpack which is fastened closed.

Late night photos location needs to be discovered. It was either to ward off animals or alert night time search crews. I would like to see a schedule and locations were the rescue time operated.

Heya hope you are well listening to this case again. Have you thought about dyatlov pass

Absolutely thrilling....about the phone activity... in that situation, knowing families, friends and myriam are very concerned about their missing... I strongly believe they would at least wrote whatsapp messages to them e.g. "we are ok, but lost the path". An asthma attack may have occured on the trail to change everything and theres more priority to 110 than contacting a family member, but during all the other days they did not even write or try a pending whatsapp? Seems very odd too me. I consider the girls have been seperated from the phones and somebody tried to get access to the pictures

There is proof that the girls came back from the trail. It looks later in the day, according to the shadow and the rucksuck, carried by Kris instead of Lissane. The pictures on the top with the thumbs up are so eerie, it looks like they were taken by some guys that suggested this weird pose. The girls look uncomfortable.

Did someone ever check the GPS location history data from the phones/maps? Even 2014 this was tracked in Google Maps when activated even when offline (GPS) is usually always there. Also some Apps and widgets might got GPS in background even without signal, E. G. weather widget and others. This MIGHT be in the logs. Also about the pictures: Sometimes I take 50 pictures of my GF in 20 seconds :)

A really thought provoking video. I have been wondering why someone wouldn't just have buried the girls and their belongings, then you pointed out how the missing photo couldn't have been deleted out there by the girls. I'm only halfway through this video so it may be suggested later but the only way I can make sense of this being foul play is if they escaped from an attacker. This would explain why they got lost and why their bodies and belongings weren't hidden or buried. Then the attacker could have been part of the rescue team and been in a position to be able to delete the missing photo and tamper with other evidence. Say also that the attacker took them up in the first place, he might have told them not to take any photos of him (but they managed to take one) and refused to take photos of the girls themselves hence the selfies. It would explain too how they used flash in the dark without alerting their abductor. Another thing - could Lisanne have been using the flash photos to locate Kris if she'd just fallen? I've seen them made into a collage of the same scene in another video. One thing's for sure, those 10 days must have been beyond horrendous and the last girl left had a very lonely death, it's heart wrenching.

I have entertain the thoought that picture #580 is of Kris hair after it has been detached. That's why it's in excellent condition.

Why do u have little numbers of subscribers for this great effort ?! Try reduce the time of episode or video and make smart intros check big channels of crimes profilers and copy their ideas 💡💡💡

Maybe they heard an animal In the bushes and tried to scare it with the flash.

Am sure there is a killer was spotting them or forcing them to go to specific trail before get their organs ask yourself why the cut in her leg is perfectly shaped as it's still in the shoe as a remain ?!! Try connect dots all together including the picture I want you to focus on of dark images simply 😊

I don't think, Lisanne made the Fotos to remember where Kris died. Why wouldn't she wait till daylight to take better pictures? For me, there are only two possibilities: Alert the rescue Teams or Kris died in that very moment and Lisanne totaly freaked out and liked to "share the moment with the World." .....By the way: In my opinion The foto of Kris head is the Front. It's pitch Black night. Lisanne takes Fotos, but Kris can't see her. So she layed over Lisanne to Look in the direction of the camera. Why do I think so. Because for me the hair is hanging not laying. But who knows.

If the one girl's phone was left on the entire first night they may have been using that to try to see with the flashlight or something. After the first night they realize how lost they were and we're more conservative with the other phone. I really think they just got lost maybe it got dark quickly and they lost the trail on the way back. They use the one girl's phone to try to find their path but failed to do so. They end up getting deeper and deeper into the jungle , by the fifth day I think the one girl passes away... Either way the girl with the backpack whichever one it was probably did fall at one of those bridges it seems like they did get a picture of it that one night. And then the river takes care of the rest. Keep in mind the phones were found in a Ziploc bag inside the backpack and the backpack was found in the river no matter what anyone else tells you. So whoever was still alive have used the phone and then put it away and then died. I think there's a flurry of nighttime pictures either due to a predator such as an animal or perhaps hallucinations. I do find it incredibly odd they never did a video goodbye or any more pictures of each other. The back of the head is probably just from her hitting her head on something and then they're checking it out. It's easy to overthink everything in this situation.

Foul Play is such a stretch. "Why are the stripes on her shirt diagonal?" Because shirts bunch, even tight ones. "Why is there mud on her leg when they hadn't crossed a stream?" Because dirt can get wet from other means besides creeks, such as rain, which can leave the ground wet for several days depending on the soil. Close to 0% chance of glitch for 509? Where did you source that from? Same Juan who doesn't know about shirt bunching?

They possibly were spooked by something out there and were trying to catch it on camera desperately. Maybe they were being chased by an animal or some mischief makers or were plain hallucinating due to dehydration and starvation and were getting frightened at each and every sound in the rainforest. Hence the sudden burst of photographs between those 3 hours. Maybe they located a light source in the distance and made a desperate dash for it. The photograph of the back if Kris' head was probably shot accidentally by Lisanne in that frenzy while running as you can see her hair all over the place just as would happen when someone is running. Kris' I phone was probably not in her possession after the 5th. May be the girls were accosted by some shady individuals who confiscated their phones at that very moment but they somehow managed to escape from them later with their camera. This would explain why they couldn't enter correct pins (because they weren't the ones doing it) and the fact that the I phone was switched on way later on the 11th and that too for an hour by someone possible trying to meticulously gain access to the phone data. Again just my guess.

Kris foot was found in her shoe that's foul play to me

A possible reason that the pin was never entered again correctly, and an emergency call was not made, but other apps etc were accessed, is water damage. I recently had an iPhone that had water damage, and when I attempted to type in my pin, the wrong digital keys would be struck, but I could still turn it on and off with the analog control. The phone worked like normal again after putting it in a bag of rice and drying it out. Perhaps Kris’s phone worked when it was recovered, but had water damage during the days that it was not used to make calls or enter a pin. Just a thought

Excellent analysis, no doubt foul play happened. The way they disappeared and remains found, possibly orchestrated by more than one perpetrator.

Weren't the bracelets hair ties?

why not ring the place where they were staying. do you no your best friends' number? the phone is like a diary. private, photos to boyfriend texes she would of give it to her. but she died. i am Shure of that.