Lost in Panama Podcast: PART 2 Summary and commentary 

¡Gracias!

Gracias por tu trabajo…!

@jimmyjaime43 Aww thanks. I take it my voice is sleep inducing and very monotonous then 😆🤭

Esse caso é tão misterioso, queria tanto a tradução em português 😢

You argued that so well....NOT.

A medium friend said that Henry is being protected but that protection will soon come to an end. The other question that is begging is where is Edwin? He seems to have just vanished.

@@mikemoreno4469 Thanks. Who exactly protects Henry Gonzalez? Regarding Edwin Aguirre, my guess is that he is in another country living under FAKE papers and FAKE identity. Investigators have to make sure that Osman Valenzuela & the taxi driver really died ,it can be just staged,just a movie while those guys might be in another country living under FAKE identity. It can be a deal such as ' we ll make u leave the country,we don t want to see you here once again,if u come back, u get killed'

They're a family of influential landowners in that area with interests in tourism which coincides with the tourism interests of the government. The wealthy landowners with tourism interests in the area needed the case to go away to save their families from prosecution and to protect their own tourist interests in the area and the government needed to protect the country's tourist interests as a priority over getting justice for two murdered foreigners. It's just business nothing personal.

I think the shorts being found separately is a smoking gun in itself tbh. If she died in the river/forest, her pelvic bone/shards & decomposition residue should have been detected inside the tight denim material. I'm honestly not sure how Losters can be happy with the theory she either took them off in a jungle, exposing herself completely to the elements, or every last part of her inside those shorts disintegrated & drifted off in anther direction. Logically, her shorts being found separately from her underwear/bones is a clear sign of foul play. I doubt 'paradoxical undressing' in this scenario: that usually only happens in extreme freezing conditions.

@@doriangray5750 , is it definite that the pelvis and rib actually belonged to Kris? I understand that they were very chemically bleached. Is it possible that there was no DNA to be harvested from them? The other bones that were found appear to be from previous native burials that have been washed away by flooding, so is it possible that the pelvis and rib do not belong to Kris?

@@mikemoreno4469 Yeah I think detailed forensic analysis determined their DNA & I presume Dutch scientists confirmed it. I could be wrong on that latter part, though, & maybe they just received paper confirmation from Panama & accepted the decision without independent analysis 🤔 I can't remember the exact details, it'll be on Scarlet's blog though

​@@doriangray5750 Totally agree. There is a whole set of factual, circumstancial, logical and rational elements that indicate manipulation of the findings and a high probability of foul play involved in this case. Now, if we add up all the information from podcast, I think it is entirely possible that the case should be re-evaluated by the competent authorities. They don't because there's no real pressure on them.

Yes, there are just way too many details and facts speaking for foul play

So you found their bodies under a mango tree? You are an idiot and you are hurting the people who truly care.

Afraid that would be a Lost scenario most likely instead of a foul play one, but who knows!

It's just victim blaming which is in his best interest.

Hardly. If you want to play dumb feminist then go ahead. Latin America is the real world. Not your feminist fantasy where women are as strong and capable as a man in the jungle.

And that same remark is used by EVERY parent who has a daughter.

I thought so too! That Pata de Macho trail discovery was a jaw dropping moment in the podcast for me. For years we theorized there could be another way off the Mirador, where nobody would see them go down and without cell reception, crucially. And now we have the evidence. I hope that trail will be further documented in the future by people good and brave enough to go there. This podcast has been devastating in the way it lays out a foul play scenario I think. All the witnesses involved, the high detailed version that is corroborated by multiple people. Even a cop chiming in. And it further reveals what a horrid public prosecutor was on that case, deciding what would come in her case file (accident indications) and what would not (foul play indications). Phew... Yeh Pitti must have gotten some orders herself, logically speaking.

Scarlet, Ive listened to the first two podcast episodes so far. Excellent stuff. I was planning on a nice bicycle ride today but when I saw your new uploads this morning then gone to the podcasts straight, well half the day is gone😂. I can't recal exactly where on the trail F said to forget about this 'secret' trail so I'll have to try and look again. Its in the Answers For Kris documentary? Im sure it would be easy to block it but placing bushes/branches at the entrance. If it's 'secret' then the entrance will be small, probably half overgrown anyway. Yes that's very true. We thought if Kris and Lisanne DID come back this side then their phones would have gained reception again and that was always an issue, so in light of this new trail then it's very possible they could have been taken away from the Pianista area to another location without their phones being reconnected. The (possible) description of what happened at the house was pretty hard to listen to. I was supposed to be enjoying today!! 😕 Can't leave this case alone. Plaudits to you for keeping at it. One of these years you should try and get out there to Boquete.

@@lyndoncmp5751 Oh take your time with them Lyndon🙃By all means enjoy a nice cycling ride today. These videos will be up (hopefully) for a long time to come. I will say that the 2nd video I uploaded with the podcast episodes 5-7 is the most gobsmacking of them all. Guide F. denied in the Answers for Kris video that there was a side trail, when Roelie pointed to it on the Mirador. He also failed to inform her about any other side trails. In one of the last podcast episodes, locals confirm that guide F. in fact ordered the Pata de Macho trail to be closed after the disappearance of Kris and Lisanne. Bizarre info, if true. He made a massive effort in the months after the disappearance to wriggle himself in the case and coverage of the case. Mostly to try to steer everyone to the monkey bridges. That behaviour alone would have normally, over here, made him a person of interest who at the very least would have had background checks and checks of his phone activity. By the way: I have no idea yet where that Pata de macho trail lies and how it runs exactly. That was only vaguely hinted at in the podcast. Really hope we will some day soon get videos or images of this actual trail. And learn how exactly it connects to the Pianista trail zone.

Hah, no the bike ride has been cancelled today 😂. You're right, I just replayed Answers for Kris and I see it's at the Mirador where F says that little side trail doesn't go anywhere. If I have my orientation correct it looks like it goes towards the north or northwest (or at least comes off the 'left' side of the Pianista trail) so I don't think it goes in the direction of the house. That probably really is just a nothing trail. I would have expected more would be known about it if it really went anywhere, as obviously the Mirador is where lots of people have now been, looking for answers. Nobody has mentioned another trail of any note, although I do vaguely remember hearing 'something' about a side trail there. Might have been Imperfect Plan. Yes it really would be great if this Pata de Macho trail could be located, especially if it starts closer to the stream in picture 508. I think we both agree that whatever happened, or what first occurred, happened not long in time and distance after 508. I'll keep wading through the podcasts. I have a lot before I get to the end one. I've fully watched both of your videos. I watched them first, then headed to the podcasts. F seems to be quite the local 'enforcer'*. More and more is coming out. Of course its just hearsay, but why would people make up lies about him, especially when they have to live in the area. The lady who saw Kris and Lisanne on the trail before the Mirador seems worried about him. I hope she's still ok. I'd expect word of her participation in the podcast will get back to F, if it hasn't already. 😕 *I say it as "allegedly".😎

@@lyndoncmp5751 I advise you to watch the tennis final then instead (ATP Rotterdam) of Sinner against Medvedev.😎 Good match. Guide F. may have been right about that specific side trail which Roelie points at. But they hired his services in order to scour that Pianista trail and the ongoing trail beyond the Mirador for possible exits. That was their goal. See if Kris and Lisanne could have exited or fell down at any place. SO knowing this was their purpose and knowing why they were there, hiring his expertise, I find it very odd that he is caught on camera telling others in Spanish not to talk or tell the parents about .... (muffled). AND that he never informed them about this Pata de Macho trail. A trail he clearly was aware of. Doesn't look good. Power Pixie and Dave M. and I have looked into the possible location of the Pata de Macho trail for a good week, online. We suspect that the known Pata de Macho line is not the same. That is a more defined path. There must be a hidden, overgrown old trail that connects Palo Alto and the Tree Trek park to the Pianista and Mirador region. One only used by guides and hunters at times, but not well kept and not well known. And the fact that they speak with multiple locals about this trail, and have their own guide explore it... I have to believe therefore that Kryt is telling the truth here. It may partly follow that known trail which I marked in yellow in my video. But it has to deviate at some point. I think it is a different trail from the known one that leads to Cerro La Pata del Macho: www.wikiloc.com/hiking-trails/boquete-tree-trek-to-cerro-la-pata-del-macho-35008135 Other photo: blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhUjcbHefZb3BmKpjJr1lvnXw6URdgArPPmp77XMQx6Eksm1OdlOnU7N8iAtFTwcH1DRxjyllzap6PO1gvR8yNLUzzE4EX76OFH8vmP_Js4hVmjksX59OJJOY9yZ65HbQDM4YRH5EyLXtTkw58jhPMWkVgbHBBaVeQENVX0dYhf0PVnl7-ELj00uE3K/w640-h428/Pata%20de%20macho3.png Also interesting is that certain writers have whitewashed guide F's involvement completely, and even went as far as to obscure the name of his brother, who collected the backpack and called the police, on behalf of the Alto Romero couple. Who would have guess that "José D.G." (Pitti's defenders) actually stands for José Domingo Gonzalez. Brother of guide F. That kind of makes it a more interesting story. I can see why they tried to hide that connection by abbreviating that name.

Witnesses can be threatened beforehand, it has happened before. And if emotions were running high, I can see young (macho) people shouting warnings and intimidations beforehand. In Osman's case they may have tried to shut him up. As for Murgas, I am not so sure how a scared for his life witness would then go out to a cantina on his birthday, accusing the very people he is afraid of in public there. That sounds very illogical, but who knows.

The 3 of them should be "Zero Dark Thirty" for the information!

"The land around both the property in Palo Alto and at Finca Laureana should be dug up and thoroughly investigated." Exactly

Yes that is a telling point. Diaries are for their own benefit, not for other people to read, so you'd think they'd write it down.

That certainly is a weak point to the discotheque/drugs scenario. On the other hand: they more than once caught up with events a day or more afterwards in their diary writings. Maybe they just hadn't gotten round to it. And they did not detail too much in their diaries about the dancing and parties in Bocas either. Just a bit. While we know they went out there. I am not so sure about the discotheque sighting. That may be unfounded gossip. But if they did buy some weed (also a bit of a shock to hear as I don't associate them with that sort of thing at all), then it is not that surprising that they wouldn't write about it in their diaries. And neither that they would buy and smoke it outside of Miriam's house, since it was illegal in Panama.

@@scarletr.7753 being caught up in the events of a holiday is something very natural, I agree, that can cause anyone to leave out essential details, mayhap to insert later on in one's diary

@@AdvieAtkins As someone else mentioned in these comments: Kris had a boyfriend at home (Stephan) but does not mention him in her diary either. Maybe they did not write down everything they did or of interest? We don't have that many details either about their evenings out in Bocas for instance. So just because something wasn't described in those diaries, does not automatically mean it did not happen.

@@scarletr.7753 true!

The witness was Jorge Miranda, the pharmacists son , who also ended up dead (age 22), in close proximity to the disappearence of Kris and Lisanne.

Correct.multiple Witnesses have now corroborated the murder theory and Felicianos son Henry is the killer but he was assisted by his gang friends. So many people around this were killed and also so much of the evidence points towards murder like the bleached bones and Kris clean hair in the night photos and the clean and neat rucksack which was too neat and clean. One controversial view is that the girls to some extent contributed to their own murder because they socialised and partied with the boys prior to their dissapearance and that was naive. More mature women would not have got involved socially with these young men especially as they should not have bought cannabis from these dangerous young men.Bigger Life experience would have allowed them to avoid people like Henry and in general you avoid all young men anywhere in Latin America.

The Dutch prosecution have communicated that they have no such plans and that a Cold Case team also saw no reason for reopening the case from their part. The only ones who can reopen the case is Panama/ the Panamese justice system. Needless to say... that they have zero incentive to do so :(

Прокуратура голландиии точно уверена, что это был несчатсный случай? То есть они согласились с версией прокуратуры панамы?

@@gondonsyka К сожалению, да. Голландское обвинение в этом деле стало настоящим разочарованием. Несоответствия в SD-карте они не отметили. Они не предоставили никаких веских доказательств для своего вердикта о несчастном случае. Совсем недавно они привлекли к этому делу группу по нераскрытым делам... только для того, чтобы решить, что нет оснований возобновлять дело. Они также говорят, что не могут возобновить дело. Только Панама может. Что ж, можно предположить, что Панама заинтересована в возобновлении дела... Unfortunately, yes. Dutch prosecution has been a real disappointment in this case. They did not flag the inconsistencies in the SD card. They did not provide any hard evidence for their accident verdict. More recently they put a cold case team on this case.... only to decide that there is no reason to reopen the case. They also say that they cannot reopen the case. Only Panama can. Well, one guess if Panama has any interest in reopening the case...

True, and (beautiful, young) women end up missing or worse in every country on the planet. Regardless of place, be careful who to trust when it comes to meeting new people or allowing yourself to go with them.

As a person lived in Bolivia 7 months, i agree.

Yeah that is really good. Great idea to take that approach. Was waiting during the podcast series for the mention of this....and waiting...strange...

Yes it actually looks like them but what weird photo. And why would the girls go with them there? Nothing make sence in this case

Osman's death was initially ruled an accident by authorities, but during the autopsy the head wound was discovered and the coroner and the parents wanted police to reevaluate the case, believing he was killed. And police reopened that case and ended up ruling the case an official homicide. So in Osman's case, he is officially murdered. Murgas on the other hand... I guess some murders will always be hard to prove when there is no CCTV footage for instance. Think of the slew of recent 'fell from balcony' deaths. Or 'fell out of 15 store high windows'. Most people think that those people, within a certain context, were pushed. But it is very hard to prove. I think with Murgas having been mowed down in the street, you need an open minded and curious, sincere police force first of all. And that's where it already lacks here. The podcast mentions the testimonies of multiple witnesses living nearby the scene of the incident, and they heard voices indicating it was a hit and run. But I did not get the impression that police listened to their testimonies.

Hi, yeh, that is a suspicion at this point. The parents of Lisanne said in the press beforehand that they wouldn't leave until they found out what happened. Peter Froon said literally: "Dear Lisanne and Kris. Please know that we will stay here in Panama until you have been found. We will wait as long as it takes, until you are found. And we will not give up! Really, we won't. Have faith in us, we will keep looking for you, for as long as it takes, we will stay here." And Kris' mother has repeatedly said to the press: "My daughter was kidnapped! I don't know by who, but I'm sure she was kidnapped." It is not unreasonable I think to consider the possibility that these ongoing searches which the parents paid for and called for, combined with them just not going away, may have made it necessary for the perpetrators (I believe) to plant that bag 10 weeks after the disappearance. Notice that it were two workers of Feliciano who by complete "chance" found that bag, supposedly in a spot they NEVER before had been washing their clothes. Right... And then they gave the bag to Feliciano's brother of all people, who kept it for a day or two and then handed it to the police. All suspicious as can be, but the Panamanian prosecutor saw no reason to start a criminal case or do any forensic testing or look for any persons of interest...

Hi, you could also already hear it here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XGJmzaOFuew.html Part 1 of the podcast review can be found here, thanks! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-z5s1tuNz4G8.html

H, I just replied this to someone else, but it chimes in with your message, so will paste it here also: The Dutch prosecution, I think some people (mostly '1st world' ppl) give them way too much credit here. Some seem to believe that the Dutch prosecutors actually came to Boquete to do any forensic research (they did not), or had any influence on the course of the investigation, like the FBI would have. Not at all. They were leaning back, realizing that the jurisdiction was with Panama, since the disappearance happened on their soil. They waited patiently for opportunities to help, being delegated some minor jobs by Betzaida Pitti (and being given tampered with evidence, like the meddled with SD card). The Dutch were tied and also are a small and not very corrupt country, who are very aware of their global trade position. There is just no way they would cause a diplomatic riot by barging in and taking over the investigation. We had Dutch ambassador Wiebe de Boer, who seemed more preoccupied with wining and dining in Boquete, keeping the local authorities content. Rather pathetic if you ask me. It's like with the massive MH17 air crash tragedy later in 2014, where a plane with some 200 Dutch people on board and nearly 100 international passengers, was shot from the sky above Ukraine. The Dutch could not make a fist and still hold symbolic trials without getting anything done for real on the world stage. I mean, Panama is a relatively small country, but it is still twice as big in size as the Netherlands, which is just very small. It may be an affluent country, but it has little power on the world stage. Juan contacted the Dutch prosecution about this case more recently and managed to have them set up a cold case team that looked at the case again... only to conclude that there is no reason to reopen the case. And they were sent all the new info, including leaked material. It is bloody hopeless. They say that only Panama can reopen the case, if they want to. Yes, many people see curled darker hair in the bottom right corner of the night photo with Kris' hair pictured. Perhaps it is Lisanne's hair? It is still unknown what we exactly see there..

Thank you for these facts 👍 I'm from Finland and understand how little influence small countries have. Only way is work alongside. Panama giving facts that are allready known is mean and sad. Shooting passenger plane down was war crime all over again made by Russia.

@@petrikupiainen The Ukrainians shot that plane down

No, the Buk was delivered from Russia by russians, and the civil plane was shot down by russians. There was terrorist ukrainians with those russians, but they had no training to use Buk. How high from Russia that command for downing came we can only quess.

Someone mentioned to me that if you rotate the picture so the 'whirl' is in the bottom left corner instead, you can see an 'eye' & what could be 'teeth' below a nose. That it is Kris's face from the side on 🤔 I'm just not sure

Good points. DNA and fingerprints of at least 3 different people other than Kris and Lisanne were found on the personal belongings. The prosecutor failed to ever link them to any particular person... So it could have been traces from locals of Alto Romero who handled the belongings before police received them. Or who knows... And for guide F to have been so brazen as to both be the perpetrator and also plant himself so fair and square in the investigations and in front of the cameras of the press... I think he would have been an Oscar worthy actor then, not to flinch or show clear nerves. Agreed, it seems more likely that he knew a bit more perhaps than he let on. And that he was busy intimidating people in the background, as we have heard from various witnesses and locals by now. Telling them to back off and keep their noses out of the case.

​@@scarletr.7753 Penso che gli autori del reato siano più persone, mi spiego meglio (il traduttore molte volte trascrive in maniera leggermente diversa da quello che scrivo in italiano). F è stato li la mattina del 2 aprile ,supponiamo che sapesse già della sorte delle due ragazze , e voleva coprire uno degli autori del reato. 1) se le due ragazze erano state uccise già il primo aprile e F è li solo per depistare, oppure come hai detto tu distogliere l'attenzione da qualcun' altro è un conto. 2) ma se le due ragazze erano ancora in vita lui comunque diventa complice ( perchè non ha fatto nulla per impedire il delitto) anche se non le ha ammazzate lui materialmente. Ps lo lascio anche in Italiano. I think the perpetrators of the crime are several people, let me explain better (the translator often transcribes in a slightly different way from what I write in Italian). F was there on the morning of April 2, suppose he already knew about the fate of the two girls, and wanted to cover up for one of the perpetrators. 1) if the two girls had already been killed on April 1st and F is only there to mislead, or as you said, diverting attention away from someone else is one thing. 2) but if the two girls were still alive he still becomes an accomplice (because she did nothing to prevent the crime) even if she didn't actually kill them. Ps I also leave it in Italian.

And that he was busy intimidating people in the background, as we have heard from various witnesses and locals by now. Telling them to back off and keep their noses out of the case. Come mai ha questo comportamento davanti le telecamere tiene una linea e senza dice agli altri di non parlare, qui in Italia diciamo che tiene la coda di paglia e se tiene la coda di paglia in che modo è coinvolto!!! How come he has this behavior in front of the cameras he keeps a line and without telling the others not to talk, here in Italy we say he keeps a straw and if he keeps a straw in what way is he involved!!! Ps traduce diversamente ma spero si capisca il significato (Ps translates differently but I hope you understand the meaning)

Nel tuo blog c'è una foto con uno zaino dove sembra ci sia attaccata una busta blu, in una delle foto della 505 si vede a terra una cosa blu forse Kris e Lisanne volevano ritornare indietro da dove erano scese!!! In your blog there is a photo with a backpack where it seems to be attached to a blue envelope, in one of the photos of 505 you see something blue on the ground maybe Kris and Lisanne wanted to go back to where they left off

@@lescommessedelgiorno1524 I agree, I also think that F. knew more and was diverting attention. I discuss this case often with two people who are really knowledgeable about this disappearance case and all its details (Power Pixie and Dave M) and they always highlight to me how it was guide F. who actively steered the entire investigation towards those monkey bridges. I have a video up on my channel with all the witness statements and he is covered too frequently. Showing how he swayed over time, pushed the searches in all sorts of directions. We already knew he spent some significant amount of time in their bedroom, without the host mother present. We now know that he indeed kept a straw and showed himself in a controlling and intimidating, threatening way to some locals. This is no normal Good Samaritan behaviour. Either he may have known that these girls were killed by this local gang including his stepson (as claimed in the podcast), or he knew they were kept hostage. I think he spent that much time in their bedroom, with Eileen, because he wanted to get some cables to be able to access their phones or camera, and because she understands Dutch and could go through their diaries, checking if Henry or Edwin or even Osman was mentioned in their diaries. Damage control in full swing.

If that story is true then I agree with you. I can't help think about what they wrote in their diaries here. First the upbeat and confident entries about Bocas del Toro and about how much fun they had there with some Dutch guys and one from Australia I believe. People their own age but trustworthy.. They would go eat and dance together with them and they gained confidence from it, I believe. Then fast forward to Boquete and Lisanne wrote in her diary about how terrible she was feeling there. Anxious, panicked. She did not feel good, she did not speak the language and Boquete is not a holiday hot spot for westerners per se. But a town where people live full time. I would not be surprised if it ever turns out that in order to cheer themselves up 9also after the horrible way in which their volunteer work fell through), they reverted back to their Bocas habits. And were more open to swimming or hanging out with guys their own age. Only here.... they were not Dutch and Australian, but locals with very shady backgrounds. Indeed, they should have stayed well away from them. Especially considering how young and beautiful they looked, which has always a magnet effect on young guys, sometimes with the wrong ideas

@@scarletr.7753 Agree. Holland is a very safe and well policed country so it seems that they could not see the danger with hanging out with shady local men in a basically lawless and corrupt central american country. I have done some tourist tours in Costa Rica and Cuba and it always occurred to me how things could easily go wrong with any of the tour guides in remote mountain areas.However I always went in a large group and had a concealed weapon and as a man I am also less vulnerable than beautiful women in their early 20s. This Case is solved now but I think the parents know the real truth but don't want to reopen the case as the truth is too gruesome and emotionally painful. God bless them

Youthful hubris.

@@marknewton6984 yes

@@marknewton6984 I wouldn't say youthful hubris, the fact is they may have been approached by locals their own age and it was no more than a passing conversation - this is not the girls fault. What seems to have happened (in theory) is that whoever they had that passing meeting with didn't let it go and in a tiny town like this went on to pursue the two. Somehow they knew the two girls were headed for the Pianista, they knew WHEN they would be there, and they successfully intercepted them on that trail - there was no way they could escape. I don't feel this is Kris and Lisanne's fault, because of this theory is correct then they were very very unfortunate in being tagetted by a predator. Who sensed their vulnerability and saw them as an easy target. ------- There are things we are missing here however. Blank spots on the Monday afternoon especially. And there is much mystery over the tuesday morning at the school, and just after. I feel the sad miserable truth is that these two vulnerable visitors to the town were completely let down by that town. No one was looking out for them. Even now, people don't want to open up and admit to what actually happened. It is deeply ironic to me that the two survived a full two weeks in notorious Bocas, but didn't even last _three_ days after stepping foot in sleepy little Boquete. Something truly extraordinary went on here to see this happen...

Nobody has come forward. Juan in particular has created a large database with pictures and also identified some lookalikes who were roughly in the region, but none were in Boquete at that same time. He contacted the Dutch Prosecution and they told him they had a cold case team re-evaluate the case. Concluding that they saw no reason to reopen the case. They had the swimming photo in their possession they wrote to Juan and they confirmed that it is not a photoshop but a real photo. But that it are not Kris and Lisanne depicted. But some other women. They failed to identify them or give any details about their nationality or whatever. We both do not believe that they actually, in fact, identified these supposed two lookalike women. But that they use this argument in order to not have to reopen the case, which they also said was up to Panama's prosecution anyway... This case has a worldwide reach but nobody has ever come forward to claim it is her in that swimming photo.

Amazing story indeed! Although some weird details came out as well. For instance that these kids were approached by army and native groups looking for them multiple times apparently already, before being found. But the kids were hiding from them successfully initially. Something about them believing they would get toys if they hid successfully. Not sure how much truth is to those media claims. But yes, these 4 young ones survived 40+days in the ACTUAL jungle (not like the agricultural, inhabited terrain above Boquete). They were taught which fruits to eat in the jungle and how to make shelter, but managed to survive on rain water, cassava and fruits. I can't help think of Kris and Lisanne and why they would not have been able to stay alive on the fruits, cassava and water in the Boquete area? Because they were kidnapped.

I definitely would have done that as the second thing after calling the emergency number. Maybe they couldn't be seen using their telephones when the first emergency call was made, maybe they were trying to pretend not to be scared, and perhaps someone else was staging the rest of the calls when the girls were already gone. Everyone in trouble would have left some kind of a message, and these girls were already used to journaling. As you know, the camera had a lot of battery life left for a video message, and several, long, cold, black nights in the jungle would have anyone recording a message to their mother.

Cuz they were dead and someone else had their phones

Hi, yeh there were pins entered correctly initially, but not until the end. Only for the first five days. On day five Kris' iPhone4 was powered on and off at 10:50 AM. This was the last time the SIM pin was entered correctly. From then onward, the wrong pin code or no pin code was entered. Until then the phone had successfully received both a SIM pin (0556) and a login pin to unlock the screen. Technically we don't know who entered the right or the wrong pin. Different strange DNA and fingerprints were found on their belongings including the camera and phones. Anyone with some smarts and planning wits could have staged all of those emergency number attempts. Or Kris and Lisanne may have had their own phones in their possession for five initial days and then someone else got them in their possession. If they were kidnapped or held against their will, then it is possible that perpetrators demanded to be given the PIN codes of the iPhone. It depends on the theory I suppose. Margarita and Murgas mentioned a 1st night altercation and instant murders. In that case, I agree that the login pattern looks very odd. How did they then find out about Kris' pin codes? The other theory that is mentioned in the podcast, coming from a local from Alto Romero, states that Kris and Lisanne were taken to that hamlet and kept there alive for several days. In that case they may have been ordered to give Kris' pin codes. But I suspect myself that Kris and Lisanne made the initial two 112 calls themselves on day 1. And that perpetrators picked up on that pattern and continued with it. Either they started doing that on day 5 (and lacked the pin codes) or they did so earlier already after demanding the pin codes. In that case they would have had to be completely shrewd to plan this complex pattern of correct logins for 5 days, then incomplete logins for 6 more days. But yeh, there are a couple of finer points that don't add up completely with this crime theory

​@@scarletr.7753 Having listened to the podcast they are definitely going for the sensationalist murder on the first day. As discussed already this is not realistic with the phone data. You can fit a kidnapping narrative around this, but the phone data fits equally into a tragic accident scenario. And no it is not simply that they got lost, one or both of them were most likely injured and unable to walk and crucially they had not really told anyone where they were going making the search that much harder. I have no doubt numerous people handled that backpack (including it's items) when it was found and I'm pretty convinced that the women met somebody on the trail during their walk as it well used. The trouble is the huge publicity and fear of being implicated meant that nobody was going to admit to either.

​@@TheCocteaus I understood it differently. The podcast makers allowed Margarita to talk quite extensively, but they also looked for corroborating evidence and also allowed Martin Ferrara O'Donnell to give his theory (which differs from Margarita's in quite a few ways) and then also came out at the Alto Romero local, who had yet another sub-theory. Mariana was eager about this crime narrative but Jeremy Kryt played the tempered, balanced, skeptical part. I make an objection btw to the term 'sensationalist murder'. That word sounds like a value judgement. While it may in fact be the simple truth that is shared with us. Murders happen all the time and sharing evidence that points to a murder is not 'sensationalist'. Unless you are on Reddit of course 🙂There are quite a few little details that don't add up with a Day 1 murder. The phone data can fit in with a lot of mental gymnastics, but how about the night photo of Kris' head on day 8? It does not seem to show her dead and battered up. But the phone data also makes no sense when trying to match it with a lost/accident narrative. There is too much written about that already but those phone logs and that camera use do not look even remotely like the sort of work from 2 young women who are out there in the wild alone, trying to find help. They are absurd

Before i knew....buy also After? What a trap

But the rescue teams have searched everywhere seriously

Interesting theory. I am open to all versions. Constantly jumping between the lost and the foul play version. Not saying this did not happend. But still have some questions to it. - How did they got lost? - Why so few phone calls if they were lost and had panic? -Why no calls to other people? -why no messages to their loved ones if they were immobilized and dying? -Why did they find the shorts unbuttoned on the river? Did she take them off voluntarily. - A glitch in the camera seems very unlikely according to the camera manufacturer. If police removed the foto, what did it show? What about the other deaths?

​@@johnlinden820 a glitch when they fell caused 509 to be erased. The deaths are common because every year hundreds of humans drown in Panama

@@markusmaier2277doesn’t explain the unatural bleached bones, the swimming photo and the witnesses talking about the red truck.

Why would that woman, that mom, lie about her son? Knowing, she has other kids to protect.

Well there you go. Like so many total inconsistencies in this case, that is a big one. People who want to believe it was all an accident hold onto this strange belief (supported by a blundering pathologist from the Netherlands) that Kris and Lisanne very early on fell down a ravine. Then were stuck. Of course, no such ravine was ever actually identified as having trails or any evidence whatsoever of a fall of two adult women. Their bags and belongings did not show signs of such a steep fall or sliding down either. Their sunglasses were found without even a scratch on them. The bones were NOT found at the bottom of such a ravine and neither was Kris' jeans shorts. It is a rather insane theory to still believe in in my opinion, but ok. All their belongings were found in a relatively small area, which was searched by large groups of professionals for MONTHS. To no avail. The few belongings and remains were found close to very frequently used trails, or even near habitation. And yet for ten weeks nobody supposedly found anything, despite hundreds if not thousands of people searching this small area. The bag HAD to be planted, since the parents had been screaming in the media until then that Kris and Lisanne had been kidnapped. And that they would not rest and would not let that jungle alone until they found them. u\Until the discovery of their belongings/bag/camera/phones in June 2014, the searches and media pressure was only intensifying. That seems a pretty good motive to me to decide that the world finding out about these night photos and the emergency call attempts (faked or not) was the most straightforward way to make everyone believe it was all an accident, and stop all the international hassle of the people in the area. The night photos are just as bizarre as their use of their phones. Totally bizarre and unnatural behaviour. The night photos could have been taken by anyone as the photographer is never pictured, not even a meg or a shoe. The backpack is never pictured. The only way we are supposedly having proof that she was Lisanne, is because of photo 580 showing Kris' red hair. That is the only personal photo in a bizarre series of a 100 photos. Totally staged, just like the phone calls after April 1st

Which photo with the club is that? You mean this one of Henry acting like a total maniac? 1.bp.blogspot.com/-5SJwfNGO2w8/YJlSDImA01I/AAAAAAAAG14/vtLhvqnpNNQPfZHE8R6NSV3_ZV-arf9ZACLcBGAsYHQ/s320/Chani%2B4.jpg

I think that Jeremy Kryt already talked to them? Not sure. He talked to one cop at least in the podcast, who is close to retirement. Murgas also talked to police. It just was mostly kept out of the case files by Pitti. So it probably makes no difference whether or not Panama police hear this podcast :(

@@scarletr.7753 thank you! And have you consider contacting the Dutch policy or the parents. I don’t know how interpol handles new information linked to this case?

I think they just want it to go away and to stay an 'accident', sadly.

@@lisafff8518 Hi Lisa, Juan already did contact the Dutch Prosecution in the past. Also sent them the swimming photo at the time. The Dutch prosecutors office replied that they and their cold case team see no reason to reopen the case and besides, they have no means to reopen the case; only the Panamanian prosecution can do this. They told him. Of course, with nobody at the time looking for any foul play evidence and nobody doing the necessary forensic investigations or suspect evaluations, they now insist there is no reason to deviate from the accident theory 🙃If you don't look for that sort of evidence, you can always insist there is nothing to see there. But anyway, there is barely any chance that the case is reopened by the case officials I think. Unless someone stands up and says flat out that he killed them. (But even then it will probably be denied).

That is indeed a well known bottleneck in this case. It is very often mentioned because IF those phone logs are correct (and complete...) then it kind of excludes the possibility of Kris and Lisanne and their phones having returned to the trailhead. In the podcast it is claimed that they were taken down another trail, not the Piansta trail but a more secluded and desolate one called Pata de Macho. Without cell reception. But as I also write on my blog; the phone logs seem sparse and incomplete, as far as I've been told, and we know for a fact that Betzaida Pitti from the Panamanian prosecution meddled with the photo originals, editing the night photos, on the original SD card. Highly unethical. So that theoretically also opens the possibility of those phone logs not being 100% what they originally were.

Actually, Power-Pixie is in the midst of doing just that. As I understand it, PP found no explanation yet for the massive battery drop/drainage of Lisanne's phone. There is no indication in the phone logs of actual background app usage for instance and yet, the battery drained at relative super speed. No explanation yet and the logs are far from complete.... Very odd

​@@scarletr.7753 So let's hope that Power-Pixie can fix something, so we have two cell phone batteries that behaved differently one discharged too quickly and one that after 11 days was at 20 x 100 correct me if I'm wrong a bit like bones! !! Ps btw if I were Power-Pixie I would focus a lot more on how Kris' cell phone worked for the simple fact that they can always tell that Lisanne's battery was old while Kris' cell phone 11 days is a long time and if technically a cell phone it should be completely downloaded after 11 days it seems obvious to me that there is the hand of third parties!!!

Interesting. I guessed they said bandida, it sounded like that and that word would also fit it seems (?) - bandit, gangster, villain. But you may be right and Mariana could perhaps say Pandilla (had to look it up: group of friends, gang). Not sure if that would sound similar if said in Spanish but it may be a better description, so I may have gotten it all wrong with bandida 😬🤭

@@scarletr.7753 , yes, I have listened again and I am pretty sure now she is saying pandilla (which is the normal word for gang). Also, are we able to identify who Sam John and César Cuervo are?

@@mikemoreno4469 Darn, I made an error there then. Too late to change it in these videos, but will add your info to my blog at least. Yes, we identified Cesar aka Cuervo on facebook as well as Sam John, Edwin, Milagros and the others. For what it's worth.

Scarlet, procure tener subtítulos en español, por favor . Estoy desesperada de no entender nada acerca de la s nuevos datos e información d l caso. Deseo que se sepa quiénes asesinaron a las niñas. Y ese maldito psicópatas, asesinos! Es más feo de cara; quien se fijaría en esa basura

@@elenayajairamontenegro1048 Hola, no hablo español. De lo contrario, seguramente habría traducido el video al español. Pero alguien más se ofreció a hacer subtítulos en español para este video y subirlo. Pondré un enlace a este video una vez que esté en línea.

Oh yes, the Delphi murders right? I think of that case now and then. Indeed, one of the two teenagers managed to take a photo I think it was of the attacker and also snippets of audio. A suspect is finally caught now. But for two teenagers to have the presence of mind to document this creepy guy walking behind them on the train tracks, wow. When thinking of missing photo or video number 509 in this case, I often wonder if it could have been a Delphi type of photo perhaps.

@@scarletr.7753 There is a youtuber on here that has been doing live videos on the Delphi murder case I forgot his name.

@@BabyMouse-i1u Just some harmless banter! 🙄

I thought those poor kids remain missing at the moment?

​@@scarletr.7753 Scarlet sono stati ritrovati dopo due settimane quindi sono sopravvissuti nella giungla amazzonica 4 bambini di età di 13 anni 9 anni 4 anni e 11 mesi è vero che la foresta amazzonica è diversa da una foresta fluviale dove da quello che ho letto la notte è più umida e fredda ma è altrettanto vero che questi erano ragazzini (tra cui un neonato) mentre Kris e Lisanne erano due ragazze adulte e fisicamente più sportive e resistenti!!! Ps quindi come dimostra questa storia non è detto che è impossibile sopravvivere molti giorni in una foresta!!! Scarlet were found after two weeks so they survived in the Amazon jungle 4 children aged 13 years 9 years 4 years 11 months it is true that the Amazon forest is different from a riverine forest where from what I have read it is more humid at night It's cold but it's equally true that these were kids (including a newborn) while Kris and Lisanne were two adult girls and physically more sporty and resistant!!! Ps so as this story demonstrates it's not said that it's impossible to survive many days in a forest!!! Scarlet werd na twee weken gevonden, dus ze overleefden in het Amazone-oerwoud. 4 kinderen van 13 jaar 9 jaar 4 jaar 11 maanden. koud, maar het is even waar dat dit kinderen waren (inclusief een pasgeborene) terwijl Kris en Lisanne twee volwassen meisjes waren en fysiek sportiever en resistenter!!! Ps, zoals dit verhaal aantoont, wordt niet gezegd dat het onmogelijk is om vele dagen in een bos te overleven!!!

Scarlet erano ancora dispersi quando ti ho risposto ma sono stati ritrovati in questi giorni prima era una falsa notizia ma ieri hanno dato notizia al tg 1 qui in Italia, 40 giorni nella giungla e adesso chi glielo spiega alla americana che dice che non si può sopravvivere nella giungla più di una settimana!!! Scarlet was nog steeds vermist toen ik je antwoordde, maar ze werden gevonden in de voorgaande dagen, het was vals nieuws, maar gisteren berichtten ze op nieuws 1 hier in Italië, 40 dagen in de jungle en wie kan het nu uitleggen aan de Amerikaan die zegt dat je dat niet kunt overleef meer dan een week in de jungle!!! Scarlet were still missing when I answered you but they were found in the previous days it was false news but yesterday they reported on news 1 here in Italy, 40 days in the jungle and now who can explain it to the American who says you can't survive in the jungle more than a week!!!

​@@lescommessedelgiorno1524Fue un falso positivo cuando dijeron en mayo que los encontraron, ahora si paso. Es una historia de supervivencia increible en un entorno selvatico. El 1ero de mayo se accidenta la avioneta en la selva Amazónica de Guaviare (Colombia) y el 9 de junio, 40 días después encontran a los 4 niños vivos. Desnutridos y deshidratados pero vivos al fin sin estado de gravedad. 3 adultos murieron en el accidente de la avioneta, incluida la madre de los niños. Hay que tomar en cuenta que son niños indígenas y la niña de 13 años probablemente sabe aprovechar lo que la tierra provee. Pero es impresionante y contra pronostico, esta selva es muy tupida, muy humedad puede llover en cualquier momento y que un niños de 11 meses y 4 años resistan a esto por ayuda de su hermana mayor es digno de admirar. Si es factible una sobrevivencia en este entorno? pues si es posible, dependiendo de varios factores.

@@carlosbrizuela6521 in my opinion even the girls would have survived if there hadn't been the hand of third parties

Hi Certainly the revelation of a 'secret' trail from the Mirador area directly towards the Tree Trek area is a major plus in the theory it could have happened there. The time of the first emergency calls wouldn't be enough to get there though I don't think , unless they tried to escape while on that trail towards Tree Trek before being caught. But that goes against the claim that it all went wrong after they arrived at the destination. Its a head scratcher.

@@lyndoncmp5751Hi , modified some things..... yes..i looked at a lot of maps and i dont think its so secret at all...by the way timelines are a mess..propably logs phones altered and camera dates .. Also impossible by logic make emergency calls in the truck and then go party or whent swiiming ... .in Part 1 i said something about private investigator who was in Panama and hit good points..in Scarlet blog its mentioned. . I have talked with some Panamá people..the are so religious fanatic, poor education ,adoctrination since spanish conquest and since child that they live with fear and a with lot of evil ( its a big patron in that countries and give answers of the gangs and their attitudes and i am not talking about natives), but some people helped me in some points. I think if we carry this with no fantasies no b.s sensationalism and in scientif way we will approach to thruth.Sorry for my english

Hi, oh that is great. I was already worried a bit whether or not my thick accent English was comprehensive for others. In the part 1 video, youtube already automatically generated subtitles I just saw. Hopefully they will do the same for this part 2 video, and hopefully they will enable the automatic Spanish translation as well... The house of Cuervo in Palo Alto lies very very close to Boquete Tree Trek. Power Pixie and Dave M and I have been looking into his house, since Jeremy Kryt gave quite a few details and indications of the looks and location of that house (I cover them on my blog), and came close. It is literally round the corner from the Tree Trek. We also wondered if that rather large amount of cash money found in their backpack (80-something dollars) was intended for a Tree Trek cable ride perhaps. Agreed. F. was so on the forefront and taking so much attention in this case from the start, that it also seemed more logical to me that he is not directly involved. But sideways, misdirecting attention away from someone else. The Dutch prosecution, I think some people (mostly '1st world' ppl) give them way too much credit here. Some seem to believe that the Dutch prosecutors actually came to Boquete to do any forensic research (they did not), or had any influence on the course of the investigation, like the FBI would have. Not at all. They were leaning back, realizing that the jurisdiction was with Panama, since the disappearance happened on their soil. They waited patiently for opportunities to help, being delegated some minor jobs by Betzaida Pitti (and being given tampered with evidence, like the meddled with SD card). The Dutch were tied and also are a small and not very corrupt country, who are very aware of their global trade position. There is just no way they would cause a diplomatic riot by barging in and taking over the investigation. We had Dutch ambassador Wiebe de Boer, who seemed more preoccupied with wining and dining in Boquete, keeping the local authorities content. Rather pathetic if you ask me. It's like with the massive MH17 air crash tragedy later in 2014, where a plane with some 200 Dutch people on board and nearly 100 international passengers, was shot from the sky above Ukraine. The Dutch could not make a fist and still hold symbolic trials without getting anything done for real on the world stage. I mean, Panama is a relatively small country, but it is still twice as big in size as the Netherlands, which is just very small. It may be an affluent country, but it has little power on the world stage. Juan contacted the Dutch prosecution about this case more recently and managed to have them set up a cold case team that looked at the case again... only to conclude that there is no reason to reopen the case. And they were sent all the new info, including leaked material. It is bloody hopeless. They say that only Panama can reopen the case, if they want to.

​@@ciudadanosdelcosmos Do you mean this video? 'Donde están los holandeses de merde'? I have it on my blog but also uploaded it here now: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BWpJJcaj4MA.html

@@scarletr.7753 yes that!! Thanks for your previous answer and great info given!! .... " 80 dollars intended to do zipping": bingo Your accent is very clear like brithish people.

I write everything down. Sometimes even what I had for my dinner 😂

​@@lyndoncmp5751 Meu diário é a minha cabeça! Só Deus sabe o que guardo lá!😁😁😁

Elias Lima I had to Google translate that. You must have a big brain to keep everything in your head 😂. I write everything down in case police come knocking. I have an alibi then. "I was eating fish and chips at home at 6.30 pm, officer!" 😁👍

​@@lyndoncmp5751 If you're a progressive guy, I apologize in advance. In the "progressive" world we currently live in, your smartphone performs incriminating tasks alone, you are accused of crimes and you cannot have any access to your file to know what you are being accused of, all your social networks are blocked and your reputation is murdered by the media, you won't be able to access your bank account, etc. But if all this is not enough, they put a gun to your head and force you to write a new diary, just before they commit suicide and your killer will create a false alibi, registering at the reception of the national congress of your country, even though it's over 600 km away. I saw all this happen in my country and in countries nearby. Today anyone can be incriminated and withdrawn from circulation if they do not obey the ideology of the "progressive" on duty. That's why I don't put my life information anywhere. 🤣😂🤣😂🤣

@@eliaslima5506 Haha good one. Very true. But they still wouldn't be able to prove I didn't have fish and chips at 6.30 pm if I did. 😁 👍

We never got that answer.. It is like the local prosecutor was happy to ignore all the remaining questions about all the inconsistencies in this case :(

RU-vid добавляет субтитры автоматически. Но иногда получается, а иногда нет. Я установил для всех видео «разрешить автоматически генерируемые субтитры», но я не понимаю, почему в части 1 они есть, а в части 2 - нет. Мне жаль. Если кто-нибудь может объяснить мне, как это изменить, я хотел бы знать.

@@scarletr.7753 спасибо❤

Creo que puedo traducirlo si existe una versión escrita en inglés.

Here you can find the SPANISH version: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Q8MSLvgur2c.html

@@mikemoreno4469 Here you can find the SPANISH version: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Q8MSLvgur2c.html

Thank you. Yes but SHE is the victim here, eyeroll. What an atrocious investigator.

Hi, thanks for reading. My blog gets updated when possible, in part 4 (koudekaas.blogspot.com/2019/02/part-4-with-latest-updates-on.html) I post most updates, although there are various different pages, some for other cases, some specifically dedicated to other people's books or podcast on the case. Thanks for your thoughts on the swimming photo. And it is a very interesting suggestion that Lisanne's mental struggle, as depicted in her diary, may have linked to these new 'friends' they could have made in Boquete. In that case, Kris would have been the driving force behind this. With Lisanne tagging along, but worried. Indeed, it is such a turnaround from her high mood in Bocas, that it is hard to imagine it was just coming from the new scenery. But when she wrote that, they hadn't even been rejected by Aura yet, as this was on Monday the 31st of March, whereas Lisanne wrote how bad she was feeling on March 29th already. So on the day of arrival in Boquete. But she also caught up later with the previous three days, so she was a bit all over the place and wrote at a later time about things that happened way earlier, headlining with those earlier dates. So perhaps the March 29th bit was also actually written later on.

@@scarletr.7753 I agree 100% in that I think Kris was the driving force. In addition, it has been said that Lisanne wasn't feeling too well at the time.

If anyone has the time and willpower to translate my text in Spanish, I will make a version with Spanish subtitles incorporated.

@@scarletr.7753 Hopefully, Google translated your blog for me, and it is very complete

@@El-Argento I don't know how the auto translate function works exactly here, maybe youtube will auto-translate it eventually. I wish I could speak Spanish and make this video in Spanish, but alas.

@@scarletr.7753 You have many followers that I would appreciate if someone could translate these two audios, but if you can't, it will be for another time

@@El-Argento The only thing I can do myself is use google translate for a translation, but it would be broken Spanish. Not sure what is better: wait for a proper Spanish translation, or muddle with google translate myself.

Pat Brown, right?

@@carlosbrizuela6521 yes she is

​@@carlosbrizuela6521 anyway I put him a comment that another person made on a youtube video in Italian and he agrees on many points I want to see what he always replies if he replies

Thanks, yeh I saw her video and read some of her comments. Really annoying how she swipes many valid arguments in favour of a crime off the table with dumb generalizations like: people who believe that just like sensationalism. Best to quickly forget her one-sided hysterical video ..😉

​@@lescommessedelgiorno1524 I know what you mean. I understand that she is a criminal profiler, writer, TV presenter and now youtuber. In a live video about this case, some time ago someone told him that the indigenous woman who found the backpack pointed out that the last photo (508) was taken in a place long before Alto Romero, closer to the viewpoint (this is clear today). To which she replied that said woman is wrong. I thought WTF, how can it occur to you to contradict someone used to walking there, while you, surely, have never set foot there in your life. And several comments in the style that you point. It is logical that she has his position under his professional arguments. But that forceful way of discrediting any possibility of foul play is not correct. Too inflexible and with some ego problem. There are 3 basic questions you won't like: 1) whas she an active participant in the case? 2) Do you know the geographical area of the events? 3) Do I correlate the findings with geographic area itsef? And i look at the maps and documentation of the trail in different videos, to rule out inconsistencies in the official theories. The answer is probably NO. She based a lot of her arguments on the book "lost in the jungle". What must be made clear, the Dutch authors did not set foot in Boquete or the geographical area by themselves (the book was prepared during the pandemic) they accessed the police files of the case probably under an agreement with the former prosecutor of the case (B.P.), who is co-author of the book. And it should not be overlooked that they receive remuneration for the sale of the book and for selling copyright to make a movie and/or serie. I understand well that there are several crazy theories and it is the right thing to use science to find the truth. The problem here is that they want to find a simple answer to the case (Ockham's razor) but ignoring a lot of inconsistencies and coincidences. Before formulating any theory, you have to watch the different videos of the area and look at the distance ratios of the findings and the feasibility of the scenarios, with this you will realize the failures of the "official theories".

Sex. The girls resisted their demands for sex. The gang killed them.

Organ trafficking

Chilling case, I know about it

Here you can find the SPANISH version: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Q8MSLvgur2c.html

Osman murió sólo unos días después de la desaparición de las chicas. En los días anteriores a su propia muerte le confesaría a su madre que temía por su vida.

Juan has been in contact with the Dutch prosecution, who have viewed the latest leaks and info, and their cold case team have concluded (and communicated this to Juan) that they see no reason to reopen the case. And they also added that the only party able to reopen the case is the Panamanian prosecution anyway. And they have zero interest in doing so of course. I think it is hopeless and change can only come from commercial initiatives like this podcast from Jeremy Kryt. Or the Travel Channel's show. Or any future investigators who go there. NOT the lame followers of Pitti's sh*tty investigation though, there will be some docu makers who will perpetuate her lies also. As for fundraisers, I think that should be communicated with the parents of Kris and Lisanne. As I understand it, they do not want to continue chasing ghosts in this case and want to be rest in peace. Fundraising as a non-relative seems unwise to me and will probably reek of the wrong people trying to monetize this tragedy?

@@scarletr.7753 Infatti ho scritto la raccolta fondi fatta dalla famiglia di Kris perchè da quanto ho capito la famiglia di Lisanne si è rassegnata e ha accettato anche a malincuore questa verità!!! Si ho letto che gli è stato detto a Juan che non c'è alcun motivo per riaprire il caso, e figuriamoci se i panamensi lo riaprono hanno fatto tanto per chiuderlo in fretta e furia che per loro riaprirlo non avrebbe senso , purtroppo bisognava battere quando il ferro era caldo da parte delle autorità Olandesi (magari anche con un blocco di turisti olandesi verso panama, e forse ci sarebbero state delle indagini più serie) più gli anni passano e più diventa difficile. Di Pitti non voglio parlare ma non ci vuole l'arte a scrivere (da italiano quindi neutrale) a capire che le indagini sono state svolte in modo tale da non trovare nessuna prova compromettente ma anche cosi senza cercare prove la tesi dell'incidente non quadra per nulla!!! Ps magari una raccolta di firme online (se si raggiungesse una certa quota) qualcuno a panama comincerà a capire che forse per loro e il loro turismo e meglio se si faccia chiarezza una buona volta su questo caso!!! In fact I wrote the fundraiser made by Kris's family because from what I understand Lisanne's family resigned and reluctantly accepted this truth!!! Yes, I read that Juan was told that there is no reason to reopen the case, and let alone if the Panamanians reopen it they did so much to close it in a hurry that reopening it would not make sense for them, unfortunately you had to hit when the iron was hot by the Dutch authorities (perhaps even with a blockade of Dutch tourists to panama, and perhaps there would have been more serious investigations) the more the years go by and the more difficult it becomes. I don't want to talk about Pitti but it doesn't take art to write (as an Italian therefore neutral) to understand that the investigations were carried out in such a way as not to find any compromising evidence but even so, without looking for evidence, the thesis of the accident does not add up in no way!!! Ps maybe a collection of online signatures (if a certain quota is reached) someone in Panama will begin to understand that perhaps for them and their tourism it is better if this case is clarified once and for all!!! In feite heb ik de inzamelingsactie geschreven door de familie van Kris, want voor zover ik begrijp heeft de familie van Lisanne ontslag genomen en deze waarheid met tegenzin geaccepteerd!!! Ja, ik las dat Juan te horen kreeg dat er geen reden is om de zaak te heropenen, en laat staan ​​dat als de Panamezen hem heropenen, ze zoveel hebben gedaan om hem zo snel te sluiten dat heropening voor hen geen zin zou hebben, helaas moest je geslagen toen het ijzer heet was door de Nederlandse autoriteiten (misschien zelfs met een blokkade van Nederlandse toeristen naar Panama, en misschien waren er dan serieuzere onderzoeken geweest) hoe meer jaren verstrijken en hoe moeilijker het wordt. Ik wil het niet over Pitti hebben, maar er is geen schrijfvaardigheid voor nodig (als Italiaan dus neutraal) om te begrijpen dat de onderzoeken zo zijn uitgevoerd dat er geen compromitterend bewijs wordt gevonden, maar toch, zonder te kijken voor bewijs klopt de stelling van het ongeval op geen enkele manier !!! Ps misschien een verzameling online handtekeningen (als een bepaald quotum is bereikt) zal iemand in Panama beginnen te begrijpen dat het voor hen en hun toerisme misschien beter is als deze zaak voor eens en voor altijd wordt opgehelderd!!!

​@@scarletr.7753 Als er 20 euro wordt verdiend, stuur ik ze ook, ik weet dat het niet veel is!!!

Waarom is de andere dan geen hulp gaan halen?

​@@scarletr.7753in gesprek met een collega zei hij dat een van de meisjes de ander had kunnen vermoorden en in wanhoop was geraakt

@@reginaldoferreira229 что за чушь вы несёте ????????

Yeh I have gone through all the settings and googled the issue and I now think it may have to do with the length of this video? All my videos of shorter length did get automatically generated youtube subtitles. But the longer ones do not. The cut off time may be around 50 minutes or so. Although there may be another reason also, because there surely must be youtube videos to be found of an hour or longer in length, which still got these automatic subtitles.. If anyone knows how I can activate them for this video, I would love to know.

Here you can find the SPANISH version: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Q8MSLvgur2c.html

@@scarletr.7753 Muito bom! Obrigado Scarlet. 😉👍