Hurley doesn't even try to attack Michael or anything, he just looks at him sadly and says, "If you did have time, you still woulda killed her, right?" Such a gentle character.
He is like a cuddly teddy bear. I wanted him and Libby to be together they already killed Shannon. Why not give Hurley and Libby a happy ending or at least more time together.
Well Hurley did beat Sawyer Hartman up at one time because at one point Sawyer gets pleasure of messing with people’s heads. He messed with Hurley at the wrong time.
Harold Perrineau deserves a lot more praise than the typical ‘WAAAAAALT!’ jokes. I think he did a phenomenal job playing a man at his absolute most desperate. A man who despite it all I still empathized with 2:55 - that single line sums up everything I just said. Incredible acting
Harold Perrineau is the most underrated black actor in the world. This guy is so good, that I was convinced that he was going to die in the Edge. Oz, Lost, the Edge, Sons of Anarchy, and Romeo, and Juliet.
@@CSC52698 Michael was such a well written character. Lost impressed me by not having typical character tropes, one great example being Michael being written as the typical black guy character, he had more depth and I understood his decision as wrong as it was.
Such a great scene, everyone's acting is top notch. Especially the looks Kate and Sawyer give Michael at the end. Resentment and understanding at the same time.
Honestly This is the part of the show where I stopped caring. A guy who lets his non wife just leave with his son, gives up all rights to the kid. Then you expect me to believe that he's going to kill people to get him back. Honestly Michael's story arch ruined the show for me. Totally unbelievable. Sad, because I love the actor.
M34T You must see Kramer vs Kramer. It's a very similar situation and it seems really believable. Dustin Hoffman takes care of his son just for a few weeks and then goes to trial in order to get the custody.
@@M3A7 are you for real? At that point in his life Walt was literally the only person Michael had in the world and sharing the horrific experience of a plane crash and being deserted on an Island probably made them bond more. What's he supposed to do when they took his son? Just give up?
+Mason Stahl You realize that the actor who played Walt was getting too old too quickly and they had to remove him from the show right? The reason for his exit is not thought out, it was an immediate solution to a problem outside of the show..... So it made no sense. Thx though.
Matthew Fox‘s acting is top-notch. I feel bad because there are never comments praising his acting. I mean look at his facial expressions. He gets mad a lot and screams and he nails these scenes every time. He delivered my favourite character ever and did it justice!!!
@@BabyMatiny it was never shown but when hurley was in the cab with jacob hurley says "my friends Charlie and libby visit me and I can't make it stop" and then jacob says he's blessed to be able to talk to the people he's lost.
@@user-hu9vi7nk1l Interesting I must’ve missed that. Also if that’s the case then why when talking to Libby’s grave in S6 (and then Michaels ghost shows up) did he say he wished she visited him? Maybe just some sort of small plot hole but eh, I don’t mind
In_Vas_Por Jack kicked Sawyer ass and he was trying to explain him why he will drop the bomb. That's all. Sawyer kicked him in the nuts when Jack was trying to explain him that. In clear fight Jack will destroy him.
+kevin shep I realize you are obviously a big Jack fan, but Sawyer kicked his ass in the later season.... BAD. When they were fighting with the uniforms on and Juliette had to tell Sawyer to stop. I don't really care if you think Jack was "right" lmfao...that is all subjective. Jack was going a bit crazy just like Locke was. Jack had lost his morals by that time, and he was interfering with Sawyer's happiness on the island. Sawyer was tired of it, so he beat the shit out of him. You do realize that pretty much everyone on Lost made mistakes that harmed others...right? No one was perfect.
+Antek Sweter I guess you haven't watched the show in a long time, or maybe didn't pay much attention, so I'll link you to the video clip where Sawyer beat the piss out of Jack. A fight is a fight, doesn't matter if someone got kicked in the nuts because they let their guard down. watch?v=lKcAqcfnqOU
+kevin shep I'm not a big Sawyer fan, I'm a big Jin and Desmond fan. "Jack didn't fight with him". Do you even remember the show? Sawyer started the fight but Jack fought back. I even posted the video clip. Maybe you should watch it again. Jack made mistakes in the show too, he wasn't perfect. None of the survivors were perfect.
"It was the only way".... Actually, no. That's what pissed me off the most about Michael. If he just came back and said "I located the Others' camp, I know where they're holding Walt!", EVERYONE on that list would have volunteered to go on that rescue mission, based on their trust in him alone. The Others never told him to hurt anyone, maybe just suggested making them "angry". There was something seriously wrong with Michael for him to jump to murder as the solution.
But that is the whole crux of the story…. He was a bad father to begin with, at least that is what he has been told. He made poor decisions based on poor judgment.
Like the crew of 40ish people were well trained like the others are. That would’ve been a suicide mission. Micheals only opportunity to free Ben was just one person. All of this probably would’ve never happened if that army plot went somewhere.
Did you forget that the others' camp michael was taken to to see Walt was a decoy? They staged it to look like a real village, but it was fake. Walt wasn't being held there - if Michael lead a group to attack it, the others would've had scouts see that Michael was trying to double cross them, then he would've never seen his son again. He did a lot of bad stuff but never did it for himself, so I can understand him even if what he did was wrong
@@bajscast The point was still to lead his friends into a trap and get them captured, but WITHOUT committing murder. I agree at this point the survivors had little chance get the drop on the Others on their turf and lead a successful rescue. That wasn't the point. The point was the futility of murdering Ana Lucia and Libby. Everyone was already eager to go after the Others as soon as Michael said he knew their location. In fact, Libby and Ana being dead while Michael is only conveniently shot in the arm is what made Sayid and Jack suspicious.
@@lfebaggins it would be more accurate to say He’s a weaker person, easily susceptible, very prideful, that’s how he always came across IMO. Maybe that was the intention for his character, but a lot of the problems he faced were ones he caused himself and never let anybody else in to help. So inevitably suffered in silence to the end.
The saddest bit of all this is that Michael never really got his son back after betraying his friends. Walt resented his father after finding out he had killed 2 women in cold blood, and even if Walt had moved on by then, his dad was already dead.
It's true, but in the epilogue Ben said that perhaps Walt is able to help Michael to move on, so perhaps there is hope (then I'm sure that Hurley as the leader of the island and with the power to speak with the dead will help every trapped spirits)
It's also fucked up he confessed to his TEN YEAR OLD SON on is own about the crimes. Imagine having to deal with the horrors of the island with a father you never saw before and when you left, finding out he's a terrible murderer as a TEN YEAR OLD.
Can't believe that some people justify what Michael did and some even say they would've done the same! How in hell can something like that be justified? Killing innocent people who had nothing to do. He was a coward.
@@fabricio.2024 I'm still happy to get this scene though. I hate Jack's character and hates how he yells at people at slams them to walls. But the lines and delivery of Matthew Fox in this episode are funny as hell. The way he looks and says "Tell them the truth. Tell them!!!!" is too funny
Dude I would have told my friends what was happening and we could all figure a way to deal with it, instead of what fuckin Michael did, deceiving everyone and going rogue.
Actually I’m pretty sure he does, wasn’t one of the main reasons behind the new man in charge short that when they were recruiting Walt to be the next Jacob he would also help Michael finally move on. So I’m pretty sure they did that.
@@jaxon3333 I don't know what happens after a show ends so I can only take what I see. Michael's a whisper and that's all there is. Anything else afterward is speculation with no evidence. Considering the relationship Michael and Walt have had throughout the show and the fact that Michael was never at the church in purgatory, he must still be on the island.
Man, when LOST was brilliant. One of the best scenes in the series. It was somewhat disappointing to not see Jack or Sawyer haul off on Michael. That would have been extremely satisfying. What he did was unforgivable
God i hated him so much with his catchphrase "THEY TOOK MY SON!!" But i had even more hate for Clair with her stupid accent yelling" THEY TOOK MAI BAYBAYY" all the time And Channon was so annoying too..
@@0DaRisingSun0 I know right, like, "Michael, we get it. He's 'your boy' we know for the 100th time already..." Clair wasn't that bad. I thought she was a bit of a cutie. Walt's mother was my second most hated character on the show.
@@thechickennuggetoffate9139 Locke's father was bad and really messed up but i feel like you knew he was a dirt bag. It was Michael and Walt's mother that drove me up the wall. They were characters (especially Walt's mom) who was doing these really messed up things and you couldnt wrap your mind around why. all you knew was you wanted to wring them by the neck
Michael was one of the biggest morons in the history of shows. Don't get me wrong, I'm not not talking about him being a badly written character, the writing is actually brilliant. God they did such a good job in making us hating him :))
Agreed. Also I think it's a bit inconsistent with the character that is presented in the flashbacks. And god damn I hate his ex girlfriend. She wants him to renounce his rights as a father and somehow he agrees, what a bitch. But still he is selfless, too much so. But the point is that he is able to let go.
The Network wanted the two DUI nabbed actors OFF the show (or at least that's what the buzz was at the time). They had to write the two off the show ASAP. The ONLY way the writers thought to do that was to have them killed, and to shocking effect, the wrote one of the main characters turning "bad" out of desperation. Could they have created a stronger predicate for Michael's actions? Sure. Could they have established a better way for what unfolded to have happened? Perhaps. Maybe Michael could have walked in on Ana-Lucia pointing the gun at Ben and thinking she intended to kill him, and wrestling the gun from her, she got shot...and then Libby walking in seeing Michael holding the gun standing over Ana-Lucia. Michael looking at Ben realizing that this was his only way of releasing Ben and only chance to get Walt, saying to Libby I wish you hadn't come. I wish NONE of this was happening, but I have to get my son. And then Michael shooting Libby...begging Ben to give him his son.
Hugo had his moments first when he attacked Sawyer and then his biggest moment was season 3 finale when he attacked The Others with the Dharma van saving Sayid, Bernard, and Jin.
Oh boy you should really read the behind the scenes drama that took place during this time of the show. It’ll really give you a different perspective on a lot of things, especially with Michael’s character. One of the things talked about in the article is how the actor that plays Michael had to fight to make his character relevant. It’s an interesting read.
What Michael did was insane .. it wasn't the best choice for him .. but he was a weak man .. Not a bad guy .. when you're weak you let emotions take control and you're brain will take a sick leave .. .. In fact he's weak enough that he told his secret to his son .. he needed to confess because his remorse was too strong to bear .. and he became suicidal because his son hated him for killing two people only to save him .. .. Michael lost everything after this episode .. I feel sorry for him because the ( others ) took advantage of him and used him .. That does not mean I like what he did .. that was very extreme & insane .. Remember one thing .. no one was perfect in this show .. they all did awful things in the past , present & future .. If not all then maybe most of them ..
They didn't kill him off by choice. Adewale lost both of his parents rather suddenly during the show and asked to be written out so he could return home to London and take a break from acting. The writers had envisioned a long "Yin and Yang type" relationship between Mr. Eko and John Locke, but were forced to course correct, likely resulting in the continued escalation of Locke's antagonistic relationship with Jack.
@@penoyer79 Crazy the ways things play out because his death was pretty impactful. It also gave you a sense that no one was safe, no matter how popular of a character they were.
For the benefit of those that don’t know, Eko was slated to have an important 3 season character arc. When they had to write him off, they divided his story between Desmond and Ben (Eko was supposed to be the one to see the flashes of Charlie’s death (they were setting up their relationship by building the church together)…and I assume, based on Smokey’s interest in him, he was intended to be the one to kill Jacob).
Michael is the only character from lost that I personally hate. Before this, he acted dumb, hot headed and immature. But I never saw him for betraying his friends up until this point.
What he did was extremely wrong but you can't expect someone let their kid go and move on with their lives without seeing their kid again. I think the ones that created this show wasted their time creating this character especially if they have a kid involved.
@@amitkenan3878 How does saving your child justifies murdering your friends? It's not like the Others put a gun to Walt's head and ordered him to kill his friends or else. That we could understand. They just asked him to bring a list of people. There are literally dozens of ways he could have achieved that. The simplest one being: ASKING. They trusted him, everyone wanted Walt back. He just had to say: "I know where their camp is, come with me". He was an impulsive, dimwitted asshole.
I really liked his role in season 1 and looked forward to him and Walt building a bond. Then when Walt was taken I was excited to see Michael and team go after him and the Others. I hate how he became a bit of a bad guy in late season 2 but I guess since Walt’s actor was getting older there wouldn’t really be too much a purpose for Michael without his son.
And this is why the only hope Michael has of moving on from limbo is when Walt takes over "The Job" from Hugo Michael wouldn't be able to receive closure and absolution from anyone else.
One weird thing is that everyone just stops talking about Michael after Jack and the others return to the group. Even Jin who was his best friend says nothing
Michael couldn't catch a break. He broke the horrible stereotype of the absent black father, but in stepping up for his son was villified as a traitor and murderer and condemned to languish in purgatory when even suicide failed him. He was given an impossible decision to make and was damned either way. The writers weren't rooting for this character. And don't get me started on Eko. 😁
@@FirewallMightyHeroYep, Adawale’s parents died and he wanted to go back to England (the cast had to live on Hawaii during filming) and take a break so he demanded to be written out of the show. His character was so important to Lost’s story that they gave part of Eko’s arc to Desmond, and part to Ben.
@@melrupinski88Do you know a few examples of what parts were given to Desmond and Ben? Because it would then be interesting to think what would’ve happened to THOSE characters had Eko not left
@@BabyMatiny There aren’t a lot of specifics available, but it’s a pretty safe assumption that most of the conflict we see between Ben and Locke in the last few seasons would have been between Eko and Locke. The writers were setting up this adversarial relationship starting with the conflict over pushing the button. It’s also probably not a leap to think that Eko might have been the one to kill Jacob, considering the the MiB scanned him but didn’t kill him (usually he reserved the scanning for people he thought would be useful). One specific plot arc that was given to another character (and I’m sorry, I can’t remember exactly where I heard this) is that Desmond’s flashes of Charlie’s death were originally planned for Eko. Again, the writers were setting this up with Charlie helping Eko build the church. It’s hard to say how each of these characters would have been affected if Adewale stayed. Michael Emerson has stated that he was hired to play Henry Gale, a balloonist, for 3 or 4 episodes. After seeing his performance, the writers created Ben just for him, so there’s no telling how important to the story they originally envisioned him. There were plans to go more into the Annie and Ben story and a Ben-centric flashback episode before they had to scrap Eko and re-work his arc, so Ben’s character may have been completely different. Desmond is particularly hard to say, since he was always a borderline main character, and at one point voted the viewers’ favorite. Does Eko getting the flashes mean that the whole “not Penny’s boat” scenario doesn’t happen? Hard to imagine since that was such an important part of the story, especially in seasons 2-4. Interesting to speculate, though.
@@melrupinski88 Wow I hadn’t realized just how big Eko was going to be. While I do wish he had stayed around, I am still glad that the stuff he was going to do was given to other characters, and not entirely lost (pun intended)
Plen122 yawn. Blacks have a higher employment rate under trump than Obama-the-food-stamp-president. As usual, republicans helping black folk, and democrats helping themselves on the backs of black folk, not unlike slave owners.
What jack says here is an easter egg hint at their plans to write jacob jnto the show. Hurley says "you knew we would all get killed and you let us come anyway" like jacob bringing the camdidates knowing mib would try to kill them. And jack saying "i would have never brought you out here if i didnt have a plan." Like jacob sees the future and had a plan to save the world from mib. It also goes to show they had their story planned out from the beginning
@@BabyMatiny yes jacob gave that list to Richard to give to Ben to get them to safety for when the hatch exploded. He did the same thing with Jack and hurley on season 6 when the temple was attacked. He said "I had to get you as far away from there as possible"
@@user-hu9vi7nk1l I actually hadn’t made the connection that it was to get away from the hatch wow. Such awesome foreshadowing too. Also with the runway being built in season 3
Jack : " I would never bring you out here if I didn't have a plan .. " .. That was a terrible mistake by Jack .. Sayeed warned him .. he told him he's feeling suspicious about Michael ... he thinks Michael was compromised .. That was just after the killing of Anna Lucia and Libby .. but it wasn't too late .. Jack tried to be smarter than Michael and make an ambush for the ( others ) .. but no .. he wasn't smart .. that was a reckless stupid mistake .. You can't risk the lives of your team only because you have a plan that might work or fail .. and it did fail in the end ..
@@dyiorragray1079 No need to fake anyone's death. ALL he had to do was get a bunch of people to follow him into the jungle. Claiming to know Walt's location was enough. The survivors were desperate to get him back and strike back at the Others for everything they'd already done.
Tbh jacks plan was awful. He knew the others as a highly trained team of tactical, psychopathic, and ruthless killers yet he thought a little plan with just the five of them with only 3 having guns would stop these killers who are 10 steps ahead with high numbers.. he walked them into the fire
I hate this character. All he cares about is Walt, Walt, Walt. Really annoying character esp the way he talks as if he is always agitated over someone judging his skin color.
right....a father caring about his son. especially since his mother died...and for putting his son before strangers he had no plans of knowing or seeing after they landed (but the plane crashed)...
joe travieso Like someone said already, there could be other ways to get his son back. He didn’t need to put everyone lives in danger. Including people who helped him so much. He was stupid! The excuse that “he was only puting his son above strangers” is ridiculous. But none is worst than say that people only hate him because of his skin color. Please stop being idiots!!! Who likes this character probably must not like the show because he fucked up with the main characters and the most important ones. So it doesn’t make any sense
you could make a drinking game out of the number of times Michael says “Walt” & “my boy/my son” in Season 2 😳🤦🏻♀️ (…although you’d probably be drunk by the second episode)
You could do that with that and several things, lol. -Jack screaming, making unintentionally funny faces when he's mad, sarcastically laughing/smiling -Ben getting beaten up -Hurley saying dude -Jack shaking his head -Kate running off to do dangerous shit that causes problems -Sawyer saying son of a bitch -Desmond saying brotha
Michael Frye haha absolutely. i’d also add Kate (or even locke) being a tracker. as well as every time you hear them play or sing Drive Shaft’s song haha
How about keeping a fellow castaway's son from his grandmother for nearly three years, literally kidnapping him? Or attempting to murder one's fellow castaway? Or murdering three people within the space of three months for the wrong reasons? You know what pisses me off about the "LOST" fandom? They have spent years condemning Michael for his actions, and yet either turned a blind, condoned or excuses the actions of other castaways - especially Jack, Locke, Sawyer and Kate. I love the show, but I fucking hate the fandom sometimes. Because I think they're hypocrites.
Most of the hate I see revolving Michael has to do with how annoying he was yelling “ WAAAAAALLLLLTTTTT” “ they took my son right out my hands!” “Where’s my boooih?!” “WAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT” I always see jokes thrown around about how fucking annoying he was, first. THEN they condemn everything else he did.
I hated his betrayal but micheal had good ass acting chops. I could never love his character after what he did but he did eventually redeem himself so the people he betrayed would have a chance. it was a fully arched character w a comeback story
The fact hurley tackled sawyer just for making a joke about his dave hallucination made me expect an even bigger reaction to finding out michael killed libby. He showed tremendous restraint
So many comments are so distugstingly racist and the fact that people are saying they hate Michael the most when other horrid characters exist is proof of rampant racism pure and simple there’s so few black characters and y’all just so happen to hate one of them the most? And even belittle his love for his son? Racist and gross as fuck
Libby and Ana Lucia were other people's children too. And he was also willing to sacrifice the others on the list. Michael's actions can't be justified
Even though he killed Libby and in Lucia I still believe that Michael is a great character because he did it for his son ʙᴛᴡ : in our hearts we have a little hatred but looking back he had a pretty good backstory and just really loves his son
What he did was wrong. But walt is his responsibility now. But I think they wasted their time creating this character especially with a kid involved. But you can't expect someone to let their kid go and move on with their life without seeing their kid again.
Michael's actions were definitely wrong, but cmon everybody cut him some slack. All of his flashbacks are focused on his kid, that's how much he loved him and it's really sad that he didn't have to move on. One would do anything for their child. Even Ben, who was so cold hearted at times, couldn't deal with Alex's death. Even though Michael's actions were bad there were worse things people did. And to say he didn't try to redeem himself? My man went back TO THE FUCKING ISLAND WILLINGLY to make up for his mistakes. He died a hero's death, even though noone sees it. He didn't deserve to be a whisper. He did so many things in the first season and was very helpful. So just view Michael from another angle and not just the one of a traitor and maybe you'll see why he wasn't bad at all at the end of the day and that he was just a struggling man trying his best. (+i know all of you were relieved when fucking ana lucia died;) )
Walt wanted his father to save him but not like this .. I dont think Walt wanted to leave the island .. He just wanted to be with the plane crash survivors ..not with the ( others ) ..
Back again! Damn, ostracization can be a fate worse than death... if you're wired that way. To be fair, I have to commend the writers for showing us what could've happened to Walt when Ben gambled with his daughter's life as everyone was implying Michael should've done. PS: Much respect to Harold Perrineau for carrying the burden of playing the most hated man on TV from this point. ✊
Harold Perrineau does a great job playing a character who starts out being the most stupid, impulsive and over-reactive character in the film and then becomes the most evil .
Why couldn’t Michael have told them the truth about what happened when he was with the others!!! They could have found a way around their deal with Michael instead of him killing two innocent women and him then leading them into the lions den!!!
Y'know something I never noticed until now? Why is micheal the only guy to look unkempt? Everyone else on the island stressed or not is shaven or has attractive stubbles. Everyone has consistent hair length and is always handsome. It's like they did everything visually along with his betrayals to make Micheal easy to dislike.
Well he was tied up for a few days and exhausted after walking back to the island alone. He hasn't had time to do anything except be mentally tortured about not having his son and stressed out.
If I have my son kidnapped after surviving a plane crash I'd look even worse than Michael .. He wasn't smart .. Wasn't strong .. but I can feel his pain .. even before the crash he was in pain .. any divorced man who lost his son custody would feel his pain ..
I am just watching the series and I just got to the episode where michael kills them. I was so annoyed at his character that I just had to see if he got caught and how.
Me too. I believe the ones that created this show wasted their time creating this character especially if there is a kid involved. But let's be honest, anybody would do anything for the people they love. Thats how it is now.
They have cameras all around the hatch. And let's be honest, they never know where the others are hiding. They could be anywhere. Even if Michael did tell the group what was actually going on when he came back instead of telling that fake story, all hell would break loose because the others are everywhere. They are always watching.
That's why he became a ghost. He couldn't move on because of his guilt and knew he had to redeem himself. He warned hurley that blowing up the plane would leave them all dead when the island started sinking. And in the epiloge of the show hurley finds Walt to bring him to the island to help Michael move on. This probably means Michael helped more people as a ghost and eventually redeemed himself
He could've done that by telling his survivors what really happened during his encounter with the Others and what they demanded of him in exchange for giving back his son. He could've also shown them the list of people they wanted as proof. Had he told Jack and Sayid, they would've come up with a plan and two lives would've been spared. His way of handling all this was stupid and cowardly.
He couldn't take the risk of a group of stranger's arranging a plan and carrying it out successfully. He knew how well organized the other's were and knew if he tried to disobey him then they had the means to do anything. Literally they could recapture michael and then kill walt right in front of him to teach him a lesson. I don't blame Michael for what he did.
At the beginning when I watched this episode first time I thought they would kill michael 😅😅, But they are not like him. Jack, Sawyer, kate, & Hugo all of them are kind ,wise, at least they have loyalty and never betrayed their as what michael did unfortunately. 😢
What I don't get to this day is why Michael had to be given a list with the names of the 4 most important/well known people of their group. Why he kept it on him way after he freed Ben? I get that lists are what the others do, but this is still kinda stupid.
@@user-hu9vi7nk1lThis list wasn’t Jacob’s, it was Ben’s, and it was all part of Ben’s plan to coerce Jack into removing the tumor on his spine. Hurley was there just to deliver the message back to the camp. Ben knew Kate was Jack’s soft spot (after the run-in with Tom Friendly when they went after Michael and Kate was captured). Sawyer was there because of the triangle with him, Kate and Jack so Jack’s emotions could be manipulated. Ultimately things could have gone a lot smoother if Ben straight up made a deal with Jack: Ben’s release and the surgery for Walt’s return, but I guess that wouldn’t have made as compelling a story.
@@melrupinski88 the list was Jacob's. Danny even said it was Jacob's list. Jacob sees the future and knew sawyer Kate jack and hurley would be the 4 surviving candidates when Jacob passed the torch to jack. He gave Ben the list to bring the 4 of them to safety for when the hatch exploded. Jacob does the same thing is season 6 when he gets hurley and Jack to go to the lighthouse when mib attacks the temple he says "I had to get you as far away from there as possible". Once the hatch exploded Ben was probably supposed to release all of them but kept Kate sawyer and Jack for his own plan. Its the same with Ben kidnapping children, Carl confirmed the reason they were taken was to give them better lives, Jacob gave a list to Ben through Richard to bring the children to the barracks so they wouldn't have to live like survivalists but Ben decided how to bring them and it's one of the reasons Ben was banished.
@@user-hu9vi7nk1l Interesting theory, but there are some major holes that can’t be reconciled: 1) There is a major difference between the Temple and the Hatch. Namely, no one died when Desmond turned the failsafe key, not even Eko or Locke, who were inside the Swan at the time (as opposed to the Temple where anyone who didn’t align with the MiB was killed). If Jacob could see the future, he would have known this, so saving the candidates was unnecessary. 2) What we know from the show itself about Jacob’s lists that the Others knew about, Jack and Kate (at least) weren’t on them: Danny states that Jack isn’t on the list, and Mikhail states Kate (and Sayid) were not on the list. Now, it is possible that Jacob has a separate list for candidates, but it’s clear that Richard didn’t know about it (therefore Ben and the Others wouldn’t have). Even Dogen didn’t know about it until Hurley gave him the ankh from Jacob several seasons later. 3) Most importantly, you appear to be forgetting this event that happened a few days prior (island time) in the Exposé episode, when Paolo was hiding the diamonds in the Pearl’s toilet: [Ben and Juliet enter the main room and turn on one of the monitors, revealing the Swan station with Jack in the shot.] JULIET: That him? Shephard? BEN: Yes. JULIET: He's cute. Why are we doing this? Shephard will never agree to do the surgery. BEN: No, I can convince him to do it. JULIET: How? BEN: Same way I get anybody to do anything. I find out what he's emotionally invested in, and I exploit it. JULIET: So, what? We just grab all three of them, Ford and Austen too? BEN: No, they need to come to us. JULIET: And how do we make that happen? BEN: Michael, of course. It’s clear that the list was made by Ben and given to Michael in furtherance of his plan to get Jack to do the surgery. Unless, of course, you really believe that Jacob miraculously delivers a list to Ben that includes everyone Ben had just days earlier mentioned as part of his plan to manipulate Jack into performing the spinal surgery - all to protect them from a non-existent threat.
