Love is Not Contractual 

not so unusual. when there are marital problems this is one of the first things brought up. no mention of the woman's happiness but of the man's pleasure. women are very much beneath men in the mormon religion. just read the difference between the vows the woman says and the man says in the temple.

The fact it can be said at all and does not have rules specifically denoting this as evil means its fucking broken. Sorry

@@melody3741 I never said there were no rules. I said this happening at all is very rare. No that advise was not ok, no that advice is not common or acceptable within the Latter-Day Saint church.

@@jasonnewby Have you been to a temple ceremony? I'll admit it's been awhile for me, but from what I recall the wording is pretty near identical between the man and the woman

@@MichelleJones-cp2tv well one big difference is the woman "gives" herself to the man but the man only "receives" her. he does not give her himself. I guess because he should be able to receive more women so can't give to one. I have never been to a temple wedding ceremony but did do other temple work before i woke up to what a fake scam the church is.

What do you think? Have you ever spoken to a woman before?

​@@thosediamonddreams Everyone's a victim. The question is of what? It's not a question of what I think. It's a question of what was happening in this marriage. An honest and just person might use "abuse" to mean what nobody would deny is real abuse. A dishonest and unjust person might call it "abusive" to, say, very occasionally say anything critical of the offended party. So before we say anything, I'm interested in how THIS PERSON defines abuse. What has the husband done? Look, I'm probably on your side. But the seething anger that motivates you to lash out at me for even questioning what is going on here is not right at all.

@@mitchjohnson4714 If a relationship was a healthy one, the term "abuse" wouldn't be thrown around at all. Yes, there are people who will claim they are being abused in order to get sympathy, attention, a favorable outcome in divorce, etc, but the fact remains that if the relationship were healthy, none of this behavior would be present. And I would argue that there is nothing normal or natural about being told to "meet your husband's needs" regardless of whether the relationship is abusive or not. Not only does that statement open the door for abuse, but it forces both parties in the relationship to place a certain value on s*x over other, more important aspects of the relationship. I'm not saying that it isn't important or shouldn't be important, but shouldn't the couple get to decide for themselves what that looks like without cringy "advice" from religious leaders?

@@fairywingsonroses Saying "it's not a healthy relationship" is dodging the issue of what is wrong. Is this an abusive woman calling not getting what she wants "abuse" or is this an abusive man? Or is it something in between? You seem to chastise me for wanting to know. And similarly, no the "couple" cannot decide, as a couple, what a healthy sex life is because they disagree. This is why the bishop is offering his opinion. It's not clear what your position is on "meeting a husband's needs." It sounds like you take the typical feminist and op's patronizing view that for a man to feel frustrated that his wife is withholding sex is entirely the man's disgusting weakness and makes him a pig. On the one hand, I find this view disgusting and frankly evil. The hostility toward husbands and men is totally unacceptable and would been seen for what it is if we were talking about the "needs" of women. If a man were refusing to let his wife spend any money or refusing to hug his wife when she said she needed a hug, y'all would be rightly condemning the man. On the other hand, to be clear, I absolutely reject the red pill notion that a wife who refuses to have sex on demand is being abusive. I recognize that having sex is an intimate act and feeling forced into it, especially with someone you feel hurt by, feels PROFOUNDLY, PROFOUNDLY violating. But unfortunately, I think that abuse and unkindness regarding sex happens both ways. Sometimes women ABSOLUTELY withhold sex as a power and manipulation tactic and sometimes evil men extract sex in an unloving and abusive way.

@@mitchjohnson4714 Why does it matter what kind of abuse it is? Abuse is abuse, and it's never okay. Secondly, if you're having issues in your s*x life, then go to a therapist who is trained in how to mitigate relationship struggles. Don't go to an untrained bishop who was never taught to have healthy s*xual boundaries himself. The fact that we accept religious leaders as reliable sources in dealing with these kinds of matters is in and of itself a huge problem that needs to be addressed. People go to school for years to learn how to handle things like abuse and relationship problems. Why should an uneducated bishop get a free pass on this one?