Not an LS guy yet. Maybe someday... I can't believe they designed it with a lil piece of plastic to hold it's vitals safe! I like what you did here to address the issue. I also see all the "What if it moves?" comments. Has anyone tried over size drilling the passage so you can thread it for a pipe thread plug and a larger threaded plug where the freeze plug is going? Honestly I see no issue with what you have going on here with your fix. I would trust that 1000X more than a piece of plastic. I'm also an owner of a 12 Valve with well over 400,000 miles of hard use and it still has the factory "Killer Dowel Pin" in it. I'm yet to meet someone that has actually had that dowel pin move and fall out. So the "What if!?!?!?" peeps don't carry a lot of weight with me. Honestly I would keep building them the way you are until you see an issue actually happen. Thanks for the vid!!! Good info for sure!!!
I have worked on hundreds of 12 valves and can honestly state that around 25 to 30 percent of them had the killer dowel pin come out and completely destroy the front gear train (I work for Cummins and previously worked for Chrysler). Its such an easy and cheap fix. Also, as far as this fix on LS engines, I'm in the process of rebuilding an (aluminum) 6.2 for my Escalade and I really like this idea. I was going to install one of the aftermarket aluminum barbells, but after seeing this, yea, I'm going to do this mod instead.
I've said from the minute I discovered this barbell. Why not just thread n tap plugs. Under drill so plug bottoms out. Seal it n torque. It'll never move.
Valid concern. We thought about this issue as well. First ones we experimented on were aluminum blocks hv pumps. We figured if we got the press fit right on the aluminum plug in the aluminum blocks then they would work no problem in the iron blocks because the passage won’t grow as much with heat. We ended up with the same press fit as we use for putting valve seats in aluminum heads.(.007) So far never had an issue with either materials. The plugs are 6061 aluminum.
After installing the press fit component, you could drill through the block and into the component slightly and install an additional pin perpendicularly to hold in place. A good interference fit component isn’t moving though or you would be worried about freeze plugs falling out
The old small block Chevy has a drive in sheet metal style plug I forget the exact size it’s around .500 in diameter. It’s located underneath the rear main cap. It also separates unfiltered and filtered oil same as the barbell. This style plug would not have near the retention that the plug he has machined for this. They are only half the surface area in length. Him running a solid plug at .007 press that is tight ladies and gentlemen!
another reason why I love American V8s, and the aftermarket that refines them. over time they improve on the original designs, and we all benefit from it. Thanks for the video!
what an excellent idea. What I have been doing is taking the factory barbell, and on the inner most land with the plastic ribs, I will chuck it in my lathe, and cut an O-ring groove right into the ribbed section such that when it is pressed into place, the o-ring will form a perfect seal between the oil flow lands. This has worked, but like you said the stem is still in place limiting some of the flow of oil after the filter. Can you measure the OD of the plug? I have lathes and mills and can machine my own plugs here... otherwise, I can trial and error it until I figure it out.
Couldn't you just drill it out to the needed depth and to a size smaller than the welch plug and make the aluminum plug a few thousands oversize for a good press fit. No clue, just thinking out loud. Is that oil galley drilled after casting or is it part of the casting operation??
Yes, that is what the op is saying their plug kit does. It is machined to the right diameter so it is a press fit so that it can't come loose and float around in that area.
I recently did a AFM delete on a 15 6.2 Silverado. The factory cam thrust plate molded gasket was I believe the whole problem of oil pressure drop that causes lifter failure. I installed a FelPro thrust plate with a much more robust molded gasket than factory. AFM lifter failure is a symptom of loss of oil pressure. BTR cam, LS7 lifters, FelPro cam thrust plate and complete computer delete I now have the engine GM should have released.
First ones we experimented on were aluminum blocks. We figured if we got the press fit right on the aluminum plug in the aluminum blocks then they would work no problem in the iron blocks because the passage won’t grow as much with heat. We ended up with the same press fit as we use for putting valve seats in aluminum heads. So far never had an issue with either materials. The plugs are 6061 aluminum.
Why not just tap that section for a pipe plug? Because that plug you "DRIVE IN" can come loose, it is theoretically possible... I'd also take a drill bit, slightly bigger not much than that oil galley and go down the whole thing and make it straight for better oil flow like SBC GEN 1 guys do theirs, even enlarge it and the main feed holes as well. Just some food for thought.
That sounds great in theory, but generally when you increase flow, you decrease the pressure. Have you tested this in actual practice and examine the low and high pressures and ran out a motor and tore it back down to examine the journals and bearings?
If you are comparing identical builds, then you can not have more flow without also having more pressure. The final and most important determining factor in oil pressure is the bearing clearances, where the oil is forced through the thin gap. There is no downside to having more flow upstream in the system, provided that oil is being metered correctly to the different areas of the engine that need it. Having free-flowing passages upstream of the bearings just means less power that your oil pump needs to pull off the crank to push it through. You can think of it like putting in a restrictor valve with a tiny orifice into the oil galley of the block. The oil pressure in the galley from the pump would be great, but what about the pressure at the bearing? Flow and pressure would be reduced, and the bearing would die.
If it’s properly sized would it ever though? People press fit new rifling into old gun barrels and they stay in place. If you’re scared at some green locktite.
@@LinusScrubTipscan’t compare the barrel sleeves to this at all completely different. In every way shape and form actually the only thing I could kinda compare this LS mod to in the gun smithing world would be. The VZ52 7.62x39 chamber sleeve and that mod SUCKS it actually falls out after a few hundred rounds. So as much as I agree this LS mod probably won’t move your comparison isn’t helping the argument at all whatsoever.
This is a genius idea. They should have come from the factory like that. The plastic bar bell always seemed so jenky to me. I did the aluminum barbell when I had my motor apart and it works great for my mostly stock motor. If the motor ever comes out of the truck I’ll be getting this. When I took the plastic one out it was so loose in there I bet a bunch of oil was going right past it unfiltered.
I will be willing to bet that the barbell is perfectly designed to do a task, and all these attempts to aftermarket fix it are basically removing a safety feature. Just a suspicion.
@@Tj-mb7ch the official story from gm was that they needed a piece to fill the space because of how the block is cast and machined. The original small block had the same but they put a press fit metal plug in the space. The way it’s designed and where it sits looking at it with the block apart I couldn’t see it serving anything but its stated purpose from gm to fill the space left from machining. There’s so much room for the plastic one to leak oil past the filter and it blocks flow on the other side a lot I couldn’t see any purpose it’s serving validating how much unfiltered oil it lets by and how much it blocks the other side. It’s not about keeping the filter from over pressuring because there are two pressure reliefs totally separate from the barbell. I really believe they just used plastic because it’s cheaper than metal especially cnc machined aluminum.
Just a thought- isnt the oil passage on the cam retainer plate a tighter bottleneck for the oil than this section with the barbell stem running through it?
Since these engines oil from back to front and oil flows down both lifter galleys at the same time I don’t believe that passage behind the plate being small is any issue. Because once the oil gets to that plate the entire engine is already lubricated.
I remember a few years back when I worked at the GM dealer we had a intermittent low oil pressure on an engine and we never could figure it out we put in a rebuilt engine and I am guessing that that barbell plug was slipping around in that somehow restricting the oil looks perfectly possibly like our problem that we had thank you for the information
There are many things to improve the reliability of LS engines but the oil galley plug modification is not one of them. The pressure difference across the plug is the drag of oil through the filter and on a race engine that oil and filter is changed every run so I don’t see any advantage here.
Wouldn't this expand and crack the block eventually? Or would that never get that hot in there. Honest question, because I think the oring on the billet barbell accounts for some at least some thermal expansion
I feel like it would be less a pressure thing and more of a volume thing. Regardless, if it works, it works but I don't like it. Whatever works, though.
In theory it seems like a great idea. 2 things come to mind. 1 what prevents the plug from galling when installing and 2 what about removing for hot tanks or woulx you just allow the chemicals to disolve them?
So you claim a 20% increase in oul flow, but the oul flow is not based on or controlled by the passage size. The oul pump is positive displacement, that means the flow is based on RPM and pump volume, not passage size. Oil pressure is a function of passage size however, but this modification will not increase oil flow one bit unless there is a bypass or pressure relief valve which some LS engines have but not all.
I might have missed a possible detail, but do you use retaining compound on the plug? I'm a big fan of the billet barbell. In regards to unrestricted oil flow with the plug, I rarely see the main and rod bearings wore out in an LS engine. I would be concerned about the plug coming loose and then blocking the passage to the rest of the block. By improving oil flow and pressure prior to the oil passage out of the filter has always been an excellent piece of mind. Great video tip, but with a little hesitation to do it.
I've also seen people drill the back hole bigger then thead the inner spot for a scew in plug and the outside for a screw in plug. Im sure its not required but seen ot before
I dont see how thst could hurt anything. Easy to drive out if you would need to. I generally tap all my galleies for a female hex plug, so I know theyll never leak or pop-out. I'd have to do some investigation to know the inner plug could be tapped or dtilled & tapped for a plug. I'd assume the exterior oil gallies are no problem. Most old school engines Im familiar with are 1/8" and easily threaded if not done so at factory. I have engines that run over 100 psi of oil pressure & just like threads. No performance increase, just secure oiling. Ive also plugged many lifer bores on solid lifter applications to control oil without issue. Saves on buying restricted push rods I guess. Thanks for the information.
While I do see it would help with restriction on the filtered side, the unfiltered oil bypassing the plastic plug is kind of a moot point because the oil filter only filters about 15% of the volume it is delivered, it bypasses the rest right into the clean side.
I've watched lots of these videos. I have a sneaking suspicion that the barbell is intentionally designed to leak a little bit probably as a safety for if the filter gets clogged. Even if a small amount leaks around it, do the math. Even if 5% leaks through, the next time around you have 5% of 5% and you can see it wouldn't matter. All these attempts to "fix" this "problem" would be defeating an intentional safety feature of the engine. I have not seem anyone float this theory yet in any video I've watched. There is a definite reason this barbell was designed the way it was, or it wouldn't be there.
Well us ford guys just tap the hole and put a pipe treated plug in and it don't come out like the freeze plugs on the oil passages when you put a high volume higher pressure oil pump,yep threaded plugs don't back out!
Valid concern. We thought about this potential issue also. First ones we experimented on were aluminum blocks hv pumps. We figured if we got the press fit right on the aluminum plug in the aluminum blocks then they would work no problem in the iron blocks because the passage won’t grow as much with heat. We ended up with the same press fit as we use for putting valve seats in aluminum heads.(.007) So far never had an issue with either materials. The plugs are 6061 aluminum.
@@WPM2016 ok a pipe tap and pipe treated plugs cost how much and I can get them at any hardware store cheap and I know they will not come out. Look on the Windsor block they use freeze plugs like the two you showed and they push when I or anyone when using a high pressure oil pump. So us ford guys use cheap and very reliable well let say I never heard of the threaded plugs coming out never and there are a lot of 5.0 and 5.8 engines out there.
Steel and aluminium shrink and expand at different rates and different heat ranges. Slapping that aluminium plug into an aluminium block wouldn't present any issues other than if possibly over pressure moving the plug. Aluminium plug in steel block, that's a different story as over time that plug will 'stretch' as it's expanding/contracting and meeting resistance. Sorta like rolling dough by hand, the plug will thin out and get longer, one day pop loose.
It seems like the filter would restrict the oil flow more than that barbell would. But anyhoo the plastic ones last a long time. I just replaced a rear main seal and put in a billet barbell in a 4.8 with 425k miles. The barbell looked fine
Nice but your oil filter is on bypass most of the time anyway. You might be better off running magnets throughout n maybe a removable pan sump. Pull it off n clean it every oil change? Just bypass the filter completely. The old engines didn't have them.
Not a good thing for longevity heat exposure may cause it to move over time especially when running a race motor , I would have put a arm on the back that reaches the back cover to ensure that it will never move
Valid concern. We thought about this potential problem as well. First ones we experimented on were all aluminum blocks, HV pumps We figured if we got the press fit right on the aluminum plug in the aluminum blocks then they would work no problem in the iron blocks because the passage won’t grow as much with heat. We ended up with the same press fit as we use for putting valve seats in aluminum heads (.007) So far never had an issue with either materials. The plugs are 6061 aluminum.
@@WPM2016 Ok 6061 that motor wont out last that plug lol. But upon thinking about more and looking at it its a good mod to have , Better than an o ring Im willing to try this out on my next ls build this winter
On the old Chevy oil galleys the plugs were replaced with threaded pipe plugs. Oh, I see, those plugs on the ls ls are under the mating surface. Nevermind
Too much crap to do and just a 1% assurance that the machines slug won’t move. The 60+ psi any melling pump provide will flow around the 3mm center section of the billet barbell
The barbell is not decreasing flow. There is nothing to be gained from this except more work if you have to clean that galley later. Waste of time, money and material
I deleted the Oil Filter Bypass on the oil pan for wife's 6.2L Vortec and always wondered why the "DUMB" bell existed when you can just seal the passage and unrestrict the clean oil flow. About to rebuild my L59 5.3L and THIS plug is going in. STUPID engineering. Like AFM (even dumber). Ha, GM has Dumb & Dumber. BUT LOVE THE LS and simplicity otherwise. If you use quality oil and filter (wix) and change regularly, these bypass pieces are unnecessary.
some....? if you are referring to the only single adaptation of the ls that has only been used in the light and heavy duty trucks that started production in 2021.. i guess you have me beat but if you are truly building a vehicle for performance reasons you would be a total moron to use a block that is significantly more heavy@@danhillman4523
@@joshtheking1772 Of course. But I have the L33 in my 08 Silverado. Seems like a good build, I have 170K on mine and it's not been babied. So yes, some blocks are aluminum.
I guess you didn't watch, listen, or understand what he said...? SMH It's still possible to clean out all the passage, on both sides of the plug. The hammered in tiny freeze plugs are easy to take our, even if you have half a brain. A lot of people even tap those holes and put in pipe plugs, so they can be taken out and reused, over and over. If you're really rebuilding your engine that much.
