@@NDREI3000 yeah so weird because it will be the champ that has more sinergy with the item in whole game, I dont really see him being a good jungler but he looks like a solid top lane tank that has a lot pickup potential and peel with his ult
LS - we used to hang out years ago at Johnson and Wales universty playing poker and talking about SC2 back in the day. I remember telling you to play league (2010 maybe, was still new) and I was enjoying it (casually, lol) but you stuck with starcraft at the time. I remember us debating if league would die or make it back then and if it was a detriment to the starcraft scene etc. years later I'm getting back into league, watching coaching videos. And bam I find this channel and recognized you. Its crazy to see you not only ended up with LoL, but made it big as a coach in Korea? Thats fucking awesome. Glad you've been doing well. You may not even remember me, I was friends with Adam/Mike/Kyle and we played poker in their dorm together. TBH I didn't even remember our short friendship in college until I was watching your videos and it triggered my memory. edit:(to clarify this - I nor LS went to the school. We were both sort of hanging out there with 2 guys who did go to the school. I went to a different school and would visit a lot. LS I think wasn't in school at the time and was in the area doing poker and SC2 stuff maybe. Not 100% sure of his situation at the time, was 10+ years ago) Its a small world, cool to see you made it in LoL and are in korea, awesome stuff! Also glad to see you cured the vampirism LOL
It does scale, look at with anf without items again and keep and eye for where it peaks, look extra hard on where it touches the pattern on the ground. 9:15
The stupid part is that in order to use his ult on an enemy he needs to have 3 stacks on them first, and at the same time the shorter cooldown on Devour was what made him a support. He's never gonna be used in pro play if this goes live, I guarantee it.
@@chessplatypus4769 Sure, but that means you're countered by any range champ with a mobility spell. The animation on Tahm's mobility spell is very slow, so anyone can react in time for that. You can then create distance with your own mobility spell, which probably has less cooldown too. And then Tahm won't reach you without starting with his Q to slow you.
That W (Devour) is super toxic and unfun at Top lane ,but super shit at Support so I am glad they swaped it. (Even tho Devour is shit designed ability)
I think it's a healthy change as tahm basically removed any hope of engaging in lane phase and he usually only gets it off once in a teamfight due to long cd, I think it's a cool direction to focus more on his mobility and roaming, I just wish allies could grab onto him and travel, without his ult needing to be up, would create a strong duo early roaming playstyle
Yeah, I've seen tons of people missing Q>AA>AA>Q>W is basically a guaranteed combo and Q is nearly ready again by the end of it. W is slow, but he has the tools to land it. Stun chains should be very real again with Q adding AT. If Sion E>Q works, this is more than reasonable and has other utility besides pure damage. Of course it depends on numbers how good his dueling is early.
It is really interesting see your thought process/check list of things when thoroughly testing a champion. Learnt a lot of good habits to implement. Great vid LS!
Broken in the literal sense - He's never gonna be used in pro play now. Before he was atleast a support, but with a 120 second cooldown on Devour he's not gonna be a support anymore either.
They should make the eat either: 1) Execute when below a certain amount of HP, like a weird urgot 2) Heal/Overheal tahm for ~1.5 of the damage delt while dealing more damage 3) Keep everything the same, but have it spit the target further if they are an enemy (like 2.5 times farther) 4) Work like Heimer ult where it upgrades an ability (Q now eats, W now has old range, E now grants MS+10% size) or something along those lines ((the higher the number on the list, the better i think the idea is))
I don't even know if he can be a jungler without the ability to devour his clear is probably insanely slow unless his W moving from camp to camp speeds it up enough. Although once you get bramble his clear speed probably matches most meta junglers.
@@Lautaro-it9nd It's not that he can't clear, he can do it full HP easily. But it's about the speed he can clear especially his first round of camps. He probably will need to go red buff into blue side clear to get to scuttle pre 3:15 since full clear probably puts him over 4 minutes.
@@Bigfish92 Looks to me like his clear will be very rough, but his W will be real nice for all manner of situations. I can definitely have fun jungling with his kit.
@@PayAttEx I think once you hit Bami he will be mostly fine since his W gives really nice utility for dives and stuff with his E. Getting to that point is another story. I could see him being more of a mid lane counter to some assassins/melee bruisers or a normal top lane tank.
My favorite thing is that you can q r eat an enemy then press w qss and then the w works. That allows you to yoink someone and carry it to your backline team. I don't know if anyone else has realized this fact. By the way yes if you press w first and then qss the w will cast as soon as you qss because it's like spamming morgana q while it has a second cooldown left and becomes queued for immediate cast.
The opposite is more likely. Him eating enemies is what they're okay with. Eating allies is Tahm's "pain point", the entire reason for this rework. I feel like a separate 20sec CD for enemies, but a 2min (lowering with lvl) lockout for allies is fine. But they'd probably have to remove the ranged enemy grab for that.
champs already seems cancer. supports roaming and being able to impact the map without needing income is already what makes them cancer. now imagine a long range potential-knock up BASIC ABILITY that u have to avoid, and the tahm can also eat his Udyr and then spit him out with a 300 hp shield after bringing them along with his ultimate. will this champ actually be good? who knows. will it be the new most fucking cancer annoying support champ until riot actually nerfs the support role into oblivion? yes.
@@animeruinedmylife9833 why do you hate supports so much? This is hundreds of times better than ardent meta. More action, support role is a lot more fun, and you have two distinct playstyles. Roaming cc tank or buff enchanter. I like it
@@TheNuub63 there is nothing fun about being to brain dead walk around the map without needing to worry about gold lol. its low skill gameplay that rewards being brain damaged.
I think Riot missed the mark with his R, why not give a short cooldown like blitz? You can't spam it every second but it would be up after one gank + base.
liked this type of vid a lot LS!! hope to see more of this in future reaction vids to new champs/reworks if possible, know it might be difficult because you’d wanna get it out fast after the reveal but i think this format is great & even having seen his abilities already it’s nice to see your thoughts visualized and that you’re able to mess around with the combos and theory-craft a little.
No way he can jungle, his clear is way to slow, they basically swapped him W and R around, meaning he cant support, as the devour just saved adc's so often, i would say he is a top lane tank now. I see what he is saying with jungle with the new W. But i just cant see the clear speed being good enough till you have items, and by that time, its too late, you are behind
He might make up for damage with movement in regards to clear speed; I won't say either way until people lab it out but W between camps could work out just as good/better. Remember, one of the things they nerf for junglers clearing too fast is MS/Mobility.
Maybe they should make Q go through monsters and minions dealing damage to everyone in the way but if it goes through something it has less of an effect on enemy champs.
@@carloramos Not a bad idea, give him some aoe, but i think would be too strong for ganks, as minions would not offer any protection for laners, maybe just as his marks to neutral monsters and make q do more damage to fully marked units. His w i guess is okay for hitting aoe on the camp, but i still see it being slow. So im still thinking top bully
I play him quite much on jgl those days, and ima say, his clear is not so bad. If oposing jgl is dumb as fuck and hardstuck iron playing jgl first time in his life, that is. If his W gets bonus dmg on mobs, then it will work I guess
@@Bladius_ yeah when roaming as a support/ganking as a jungler, if he gets a bit of cc setup as telegraphed as it may seem that w seems to be guaranteed no matter what
As a jungle tahm kench enjoyer. This rework is AMAZING. Feels super strong and useful compared to before. Sucks you can't devour camps anymore haha but it's not bad at all.
This rework is really disappointing honestly, his devour on such a long cooldown and being his ult has ruined the top lane experience for tahm. No more devouring teammates to save them multiple times, you only use it in specific situations
If you can get 3 stacka with autos you can follow up with q>w> (if enough cdr) aa>q>aa>r> (maybe hail of blades is off cd) aa>aa>aa>q to get a nice cc chain
(SIDE NOTE) the q does scale with size (but the indicator for his q doesnt show this increase so they need to fix that) but i was thinking since his q scales with size they should add the ability to just flat out eat jungle monsters and cannon minions if low enough putting it on a idk 50% cd and then have it permanently increase his size by like idk 5% scaling of to 100%? Tweak numbers around and i think that would make his mini rework a lot more interesting
How i would deal with the ulti feeling underwhelming is either allowing to devour enemys without the passive stacking, so you can actually pick of enemys from range or the second idea is to make the ulti with multiple charges, similar to how old akali ultimate worked, or third option, to let tahm eat both an enemy and an ally in a short period between each other. Because it really feels bad rn and if i was a tk main i would be fuming
I really like the approach. I think numbers are another thing. For W they could maybe consider doin it like gragas ult with speeding it up depending on travel distance.
bruh he has like a 45% winrate in all roles (a bit higher top), it couldn't get much worse as is. This seems like a champion they can balance, he's objectively one of the worst champions to play right now
He can't support as much as he used to. The reason why he was really good at support was his devour. He can save and peel for his adc and now its harder to do it. Every champ in theory can support, but not every champ can succeed doing so.
With these changes you could easily differentiate bad TK players from a good TK players since devouring cant be taken for granted anymore. In exchange he can do better early roams, clearing the wards safely and he's not stuck with just the carry. Riot can now balance this TK easier rather than work with the ultra garbage TK with just a single broken ability we have now. Plus trolls have to wait 100 secs more to devour isnt that nice.
I think he’ll be a top or supp. His E can give him a Leona stile dive, and his ability to shield allies and move them around will allow awesome rotations. Also his ult slow when eating a ally scales down to only 10%.
Would be cool if he got size devouring jungle creeps, and or enemies so his q range could increase naturally with his kit, would Also justify the abyismall damage on the ult, and high cd.
Phase rush is super strongnoow with q having the ability to stack your passive, also the 3 seconds you eat them for is the same as the move speed buff from phaserush so they synergies really well xD
Honestly, it just feels like a super safe lane bully/tank top hybrid. Get ganked, just W away. EzgameEzlife. His Q getting a reduced cooldown as it levels is also REALLY nice for solo lane. Means you can use it to farm from distance if you're zoned, etc.
I feel like the q stun into w is going to be an insane amount of cc. Even if you manage to flash, the w to follow and re-slow sounds strong. I know people will love the idea of w'ing into a fight, but the knockup/teleport is pretty strong on a short cooldown. I think it's going to let him run people down.
do gotta remember the shield on his R right now, and he can devour enemies from range with Q+R, and that the R slow is not a 95% anymore, and is almost triple the current duration....overall i think it will be much better in practise....we just need maybe 10 games to readjust to it. i don't think you brought up his passive now doing 2.5% and not 4% like it is on live. he is my main too and i am so eager to be able to play him in support again, and now that he has both an engage and an escape, probably twice in the same fight after a frozen heart....even if he might end up being slightly weaker in toplane where i am used to playing him now.
@@Mournlied this is entirely true, but Tahm does considerably more damage than Thresh can, especially in the early stages of the game, there i the matter of the only way Tahm can grab is at the end of a fight, i need to get on the PBE and look at these actual numbers myself.
I could def see some weird ap tank builds happening in the top lane. His abilities scale pretty well with ap, maybe riftmaker, demonic embrace, and tank or some combination of it will be viable.
He feels like they want him to be an ap brawler more than a support... Some sort of mix of Tanky items + AP since getting his whole combo would be something like Auto*3 Q W R or something. I really wish Riot would allow for flex picks with these reworks, but it seems as though they want specific champs to live in the neat box they put them in, and modify their passives specifically to enforce that.
I think they should make it so you can also hijack eaten enemies with w, i mean the condition should be high enough to not be broken, you need w and r up and 3 passive stacks
That's the worst "rework" they've ever done imo. The base values seem way too low, the knock up takes way too long or the hitbox is too small, either way: it's too easy to dodge. They've overdone it with this one.
@@PartyMain I never heard about the Xin Zhao rework but I feel like he's in a good spot right now. In fact he has 53% winrate and has a 15% pick rate so I don't understand what u mean by the Xin Zhao rework being bad. People like Xin Zhao right now.
About that afk warning, i once got kicked out of practice tool for being afk and they gave 10 minute queue restriction. Thing is I didn’t even afk but i used the 10 minute time skipper 3 times. Riot gotta fix their game.
They should have taken a risk in making the dive and pop out larger. Maybe the farther you go the slower it is or something but I feel like the gutted his Eat and dive so we could lick people better?
If tahm can R monster and minions with reduced cooldown. Like Cho R on minions and monsters. Maybe it would be helpful in jung. But with that long ass cooldown tho.
The four champs I mainly play were Fiddlesticks, Tahm Kench, Nocturne, and Xin Zhao. I have a feeling the Nocturne rework is coming soon- As cheap as it was, I still miss Fid's old e. The dark wind was such a fun ability alongside his drain.
Buff the Dmg in R and leave the CD the same or Lower the Dmg and lower the CD. Also can shave some time for the W , is too slow. Is the Riot balance team hiring?
W is fine; Q stun into W is a "true" combo. You're not supposed to land it fresh. See Sion's E > Q combo for similar gameplay. Except Tahm W has more utility than Sion Q. Eg- it doesn't actually need to land all the time, just the terrain scaling will be enough vs an extended laner.
tbh he seems more like a top laner than a jungler his clear is all single target except w which has a huge cd i think a build similar to gwen with everfrost /rift maker and go nashors zhonya into tank might be viable since he has decent ratios but meh base dmg or u could just use him as a shen early game lane bully with a bami cinder item and possibly titanic but u get outscaled by a lot doing that
I think he will be good support that W is a great follow up to jungler's cc or ADC cc and good for roams utlist in low elo that mid doesn't ward so well
But you have nothing to support with until you have your 200seconds ult... literally any other support or adc can just poke you or engage on you while you can do some damage and that is it.
this is a joke the only way to save this is to make it so after you W your Q becomes EMPOWERED and you can do the Q>R combo instantly, and abduct a target!
I find this to be such a weird rework, he is supposed to be a support but now it's ??? I really fail to understand what Riot's thought process behind this is other than just ''lol old devour too good for pro play :)''
Its a bit odd how scared riot is of this champion. Was his old W really that bad for the game? Also how is it almost unbuffed as an Ult? His new W should have some form of interaction with his passive because as it stands its pretty much only there to get the stun on Q or every 2mins devour an enemy maybe. His E was fine before when his Q and W worked together as a form of bread and butter combo but now his Q and W are pretty disjointed and his E could get some extra love.
Slef? isn't that supposed to be self? I also believe that tahm should be able to flash when he devours an ally since his R has a bigger cd, or at least have him move quicker when he devours an ally.
@@doomse150 this is not a standard ultimate for sure xDD i mean it used to be his w and used to do exactly the same at lower cd... it will be nice if it had a reasonable cooldown not like a gamechanging skill CD
@@shadowdhaka but it is gamechanging lmao? A 3 second invulnerability Like the entire enemy team can engage in your ADC, and all you need is to press R, then W away. Suddenly their entire engage is nullified. Previously with the lower cooldown they have to nerf him to so much just to justifying him having it, Like current ult is basically worthless due to the nerfed range.
@@giahypham4111 you had exactly the same in the w already with lower cd you could call it a nerf actually, you can do it once every 2 minutes... i mean you have characters that could probably do the same or better with lower cds already too
@@shadowdhaka Yes it was a base ability before and he was repeatedly nerfed and still permapick/permaban in proplay for that spell alone. It was simply way too broken for being a base spell and is now in a much more justifiable place. And the really gamechanging Ults like Seraphine or Galio have at least a minute more than this. 120 is actually on the shorter end of Ulti CDs. And other champs can do the same or better? Tell me one champ that has a "I can save someone from anything and everything" spell in his kit? The only ones that come to mind ate Kayle, Kindred and Kalista. And those are also Ultimates with similar cooldowns
if riot wants tahm to be top only remove eat ally on W. if they want him to be bot lane only remove the dmg on eat champs/minions n revert the movement speed nerf when holding allies n make it a 40sec cd on his W. would that be better? this rework seems half-assed
Removing one of his key identities as someone that can eat allies and enemies is even more lazy than this; cmon dude. That HAS to stay intact and it's riot's job to make a cool champ around that ability. One suggestion I liked was a 20sec CD devour, but it has a per-champ/team lockout for allies, like Sylas ult. eg- you could devour enemies when you can stack AT and it's off CD, but you can only save a teammate once every 2 mins (dropping with ability level). They'd probably have to remove the Q>R grab if they did that though.
I mean if the cd of that ult is 2 mins on r1 then it should do more to the enemies and allies, i agree that shorter cd for enemy devours or giving them a debuff when he spits them out, maybe a paranoia effect for the enemy while they are inside, it just feels so underwhelming
