Ninten would be pretty cool if only to see how they'd do his design considering his actual design is basically just a prototype of Ness in looks and quality. And also to have all 3 protags in the game Though Smash doesn't really much care about Earthbound in general much less any Nintendo series beyond Mario and Pokemon and Fire Emblem
@@flaco3462 but honestly, I know Earthbound/Mother is a big, basic pillar of Nintendo fandom in 2022… I but I think that’s ONLY because Ness was included in the original Smash (and the rest of the entries since). Yeah, Earthbound has gotten plenty of traction and well deserved popularity in the modern era… but back in 94, it was a flop in the US and there was a teensy cult following that gave it the chance and knew how absurdly amazing it actually was. If SSB didn’t get Ness on the roster, I believe the cult-hit status would’ve always been there and grown, but never ever ever have become a pillar if Nintendo’s franchise ecosystem. So yall’re really putting some crisp hindsight on these outlooks about how this game series was done dirty in SSB. Irl, SSB was the hero vehicle that shined enough light on Mother to get it the attention it’s always deserved.
@@Thebigskullman Yeah yeah, I know that Smash itself was the very game to put Earthbound into the spotlight at all, but nowadays like most it's just sorta there in the game and not really paid much attention as such a formality It'd be NICE to get something other than a single stage and two remixes.
@@flaco3462 To say that Smash doesn't care about series other than those three is blatantly false. They put a lot of attention to detail and it serves also as a vehicle for obscure characters to remain in the public. But what's this, they didn't add an specific character/stage/music/item that you were specifically askinf for? Surely that means they don't care!
While Smash 4 didn't really improve Lucas's representation in Smash there's one small thing I loved... HE SMILES NOW I know Lucas being a crybaby is something that was indeed stated in Mother 3 but that's pre-timeskip and I feel like him growing up to kinda embody the "No crying til the end" slogan works well for his character
It throws me off that he was smiling I always thought he was a serious character that’s why he didn’t smile and I thought he would be clapping to the side on his losing animation like dark pit or something 🤔don’t get me wrong it’s fine that he’s smiling but don’t tell me he’s just a copy and paste of Ness 😂 change color and hat to hair. Lol
another thing that I noticed is that one of Lucas's inactive idle animation used to be him fighting ghosts weakly, but in Ult. that's been changed to him putting his hand on his forehead like as if he was CONFIDENTLY ready to strike a PSI attack
i like to see lucas' character arc as him still not being confident in his abilities in brawl like in the majority of mother 3, but his smash 4 reveal trailer has him come back and be the exact opposite, much more confident and composed. it's very subtle storytelling and i adore that.
i don't think they're smart enough to have done that intentionally much especially considering they'd have to have intentionally left lucas out just to do a trailer for him much later as returning characters when smash 4 came out didn't get a fancy trailer because why would they
They kind of do the same thing with Roy. They obviously didn’t make him a weak Marth clone in Melee on purpose, but in choosing to highlight how much different he is from Marth in his trailer, as well as dialing his aggressive playstyle up to 11, they end up telling the story of an inexperienced warrior carving out his own identity as a swordsman.
It's just Brawl that didn't represent him well. Brawl based him off of his pre-time skip self, while Smash 4 and Ultimate based him off of his post-time skip self. Although, he's the only character to have character development within the Smash series. He was cowardly in The Subspace Emissary, until Ness sacrificed himself for him. Upon his return in Smash 4, he would return the favor in his reveal trailer, now with a smile on his face. In Ultimate, he even slightly became more courageous with the idle animation of him flailing his arms around being changed to him channeling his PSI.
@Dark Dumbsville (Anti Dumbsville) Communist Cult F-Zero is representing an entire series, while Mother 3 is just one of the games. Plus, both are long dormant series.
When I first played Subspace Emmisary when I was a kid, I originally thought that Ness and Lucas were brothers, due to the similarities of their designs And I also thought that Ness was the strong and brave brother, and Lucas being the scaredy, insecure brother
@@noctiskuzunoha4059 I honestly think Lucas arrived into the Smash universe after pulling the last needle, I think he's scared because, well, he saw his brother kill himself
@@PlumbG64 I don't know too much about Mother 3, but I always assumed it was just after losing Klaus and Hinawa. At that point in the game, he was kind of timid and emotionally damaged. In fact, I think his character in the Subspace Emissary was a way of teaching western audiences about his character development because we didn't get Mother 3.
I loved the buddy story between Lucas and Pokémon Trainer (Red). Really all the team ups throughout subspace was great. The whole teamwork and having each other's backs is a nice Nintendo theme.
I feel like the portrayal of Lucas as a nervous scared little boy is more to showcase all of what he’s been through during his life. And then subspace provides gives us the character development of a cryer who needed Ness to save him, to a hero who was willing to die for his new friend Pokémon trainer. It’s because of subspace I always felt like he had so much more personality than Ness
Yeah, I feel if he was characterised like he is at the end of mother 3 there's a real chance he wouldn't of even come back for smash 4. Smash bros can't show all the intricacies of his arc so if he was characterised that closely to Ness way less people would of had any interest in him as a character because he'd just be seen as 'lesser Ness'
Lucas is the only character in subspace to have development, he starts off scared but then becomes brave, you even see him grab and try to save pokemon trailer when they're both falling to their death.
One of the spirit things you missed was that the last 2 spirits in world of light were Hinawa and Claus, one of which you have to fight. I think this is really cool how these two spirits were given a bit of special attention here with their importance shown.
"They're reusing 2008 voice clips in a 2019 game." Hell, they've been using Jigglypuff's voice clips since 1999. Also, Lucas not being in Melee is kind of a blessing in disguise since it would've meant Ness being replaced altogether with Lucas according to Sakurai and we wouldn't have the Perfect Attendance Crew throughout the series. I can't imagine not having the PK Kids in Smash together.
@@chrisrockett5897 They don't really need new voice clips, unless its for a drastic characterization change like luigi from melee going into brawl got original voice lines instead of just high pitch mario. Thats what we were saying.
I don’t see it as him being a crybaby. Lucas is clearly just depressed in Subspace. If I went through all the shit he did in Mother 3, I'd be down too. Seeing that Porky statue in the Ruined Zoo likely ignited some PTSD. And Ness being his only friend that he loses almost instantly? It’s like Claus all over again. Granted, I’m not an expert in the Earthbound series, so perhaps I’m missing things.
The Porky Statue is almost impossible to defeat without either PK Flash or the New Year's Eve bomb, so I don't blame Lucas for running. Granted, I'm pretty sure he knows PK Flash, but in sudden, scary situations it's understandable for a kid to panic and the flight instinct to kick in
I think the whole point of Lucas and his portrayal in the Brawl Subspace Emmisarry was to vaguely show off what Lucas would go through in Mother 3. Lucas begins Mother 3 scared and somewhat coweredly but grows brave throughout the game. And similar to Mother 3, Lucas begins Brawl's story mode scared and not brave but as he travels through the story, he is eventually confronted by Wario. Wario had previously turned Ness into a trophy and after remembering this fact, Lucas battles Wario alongside Red (the Pokémon Trainer) and even attempts to save both Red and himself from being engulfed in an explosion while falling out of the sky. Everything about Lucas's story in Brawl is basic character growth and development 101 in story writing.
This is really minor but I wish they gave lucas green eyes instead of blue to reference his mother64 design. Also I somewhat hope that claus alphs his way into smash as a named alt for lucas because he's my favourite character and that seems low effort. Although at the same time that makes me feel awkward about how lucas' main form of recovery after being knocked off the stage is hitting himself with pk thunder. I know he gets struck by lightning at thunder tower but I can't help but think about how the battle against the masked man ends
My problem with Lucas in Subspace is that they wanted to portray him as pre-time skip, unfairly contrasting him to the presumably post-Earthbound portrayal of Ness who is strong, courageous, and heroic; all traits Lucas would have in common with Ness if they had just decided to represent him as he was at the end of Mother 3. It kinda just comes off as Ness favoritism to me, and this is coming from someone who literally mains Ness in every Smash game.
Eh, I disagree. Lucas is scared at the start but by the end he grows past that, making him one of 2 characters in the game with an actual arc. I think this was the best way to do it because it allows the character most people didn't know to prove himself and show he's just as good as Ness.
@@rennythespaceguy7285 Yeah, I can kinda see that. He does end up saving Red’s life and standing up to wario. I guess I just didn’t find his arc as impactful here as in his original game. Which is admittedly kind of unfair of me since we’re comparing to a 15-hour side mode to a story/dialogue-heavy JRPG that’s more than double that length.
@@tixontoxin6429 Yeah obviously it won't be as in depth, but I think subspace gets the basics of this arc across well enough in the little time it is able to have for each character that I don't think it's fair to lump it in with the other problems with Mother 3s Smash rep
I think y'all don't really understand the importance of contrast. If there were two brave psychic boys, the scene would be much more flat. Yeah it's a bit of a disservice to Lucas but it highlights their differences much better and creates an interesting dynamic. I'm a Wario fan and yeah it feels off for him to be so diabolical with Ness but I understand Wario's origin is much more villainous and it makes for a better good v evil contrast. Ness was ALWAYS brave. Lucas is characterized much more softly. He's still seeing his mom in reflections and sunflower fields. He can't bring himself to attack the Masked Man in the finale. Mother 3 doesn't pull punches. For Lucas, King P is the guy responsible for destroying and brainwashing his community and ruining all of Tazmily's nature. The guy that brainwashed his friend, the Drago, into killing his mom, only to get killed by his dad, and similarly, forcing him to fight his lost twin to the death. Lucas has all rights to be fucking terrified of this monster. Meanwhile, for Ness this is just an old guy that looks a lot like his old asshole neighbor.
Lucas in subspace is one of the reasons he's my favorite character to this day. I loved how he had an actual personality and somewhat of an arc. Also, in World of Light, the last two spirits in the game (you had to fight one of these to fight the final boss) are Claus and Hinawa (Lucas' brother and mother). I don't know why they did this but I thought it was so cool on my first playthrough.
I'm a huge smash Bros slander when it comes to Ness, Oliamr and Lucas's portrayal but I have to make the devil's advocate here : It's shown in the game that Ness has telekenisis, so "levitating" like he does inst really that out of character
I remember reading that some of Lucas's moves where kicks inspired by Duster's way of fighting If i had the ability to retool Lucas i would give him the musical notes and sounds from Mother 3 when landing moves For stages, i think new pork city could work if it where actually made to be in the city instead of the random platforms from brawl, maybe on the street that has the Porky statue in One end, the statue replacing the ultimate chimera as the stage Hazard
@@isthatawormwildbowreferenc4562 I had to assume for sanity. Trying to combo to music that's normally overlapped by multiple other sfx and voicelines sounds really hard.
Honestly, in Subspace I was always just amazed that Lucas managed to trip over a root and get his foot caught UNDER it. But yeah, I have to boost what everyone else is pointing out. Lucas' Brawl self seems more based on how he was before gaining his courage and power. In Subspace we see a mirror of the development he experienced in Mother 3, starting off cowardly and working to change that after Ness sacrificed himself. And then he comes back for Smash 4, confident, smiling, and finally returning the favour to Ness. Ultimate follows 4's example and gives us this stronger Lucas. So it's not that Smash is representing Lucas poorly, it's just that maybe Brawl chose the wrong point in Lucas' life to draw inspiration for his portrayal from.
I think the worst part about there being basically no trophies, is lucas's smash renders are basically the ONLY official art for these characters we have aside from the sprites Duster still doesnt have any official art that isnt outdated concept art aside from his in game appearance and thats a travesty
saw the title and thumbnail and immediately thought "AH, A VIDEO SPECIFICALLY FOR 11-YEAR-OLD ME. DELICIOUS." Totally agree with your New Pork City critiques-- ye olden fandom really took the whole jet boosters thing and ran with it, despite the fact that the Nowhere *Islands* (plural!) is an archipelago and NPC could've easily been established on one of those. I will say the weird sprite re-usage might've been trying to lean into the "Fake" look of the city, with all the cardboard cut-outs? Not saying it was successful, just saying I think I see what their train of thought was. Now, onto the meat and potatoes of the issue: Thank. You. So. *MUCH.* for mentioning how strange the art direction for Mother characters turned out in this series. Like, not just Ness and Lucas, but really all of them look pretty strange (except for you, Boney. we all love you.) and it's jarring to try to picture the narrative attached to these characters. Obviously it would be an infinitely worse situation if they had tried to go for some gritty realist style, but surely something a BIT more defined wouldn't've hurt? At least not so... strangely bobble-headed... That Thunder Tower stage idea is making me feel like a kid in a candy store-- the lightning gun could go off occasionally and be a stage hazard! You could see the airships in the background! Sooo much potential. Ultimately I think this was a really reasonable critique! It's especially refreshing to see more people understanding they got his entire personality wrong. I played Mother 3 before I ever played a Smash game, so it always left me wondering where that stubborn kid who fought ghosts and broke into government facilities had gone. Such is life.
i never really played much brawl growing up but picking it up again to record footage was a blast even if my capture card sucks. considering how many people were introduced to the mother series through smash, its such a bummer that lucas left such a lame first impression on anyone unfamiliar with who he actually is cool video dawg
4:52 well actually, while it's not exactly from an album like Porky's Theme, the Brawl arragement of Brinstar from Metroid is actually taken directly from Metroid Prime Pinball instead of being an remix unique to Brawl unlike what the game says. :P
18:12 You forgot to mention how the background in the final Smash is a reference to the final battle of Mother 3! It's so cool. Narratively, it doesn't make sense, but is cool regardless!
I still think it’s wild Porky went from being a boss in Brawl to absolutely NOTHING in ultimate. Yeah yeah I get the capsules there but the crafting recipe doesn’t imply Porkys in it at all. It just gave me false hope he’d be a future fighter
I really wish ultimate gave us a duster assist throphy like how jeff got one. He could use a variety of his theif tools. It just feels unfair since every other main party member from mother 2 and 3 has a 3d model represented in the game
As a Kirby fan and fan of Lucas I know for a fact people feel the same. I also know that Sonic fans especially feel the same, lots of people do. Zelda fans as well and Bowser fans. I could go on. There's a lot of people who're understandably like this about their series' rep in Smash Oh yeah, Wario and Pikmin as well.
@@flaco3462 I'm sure those people had it rough. Nitpicking every aspect about a series and not getting their wants and needs in the end? Can't imagine a more underprivileged group. I'll get my violin and play them a song.
@@SteelTiamat Sometimes I look at those people who talk about Smash solely for whatever "hype" thing should get into the game and I think (Must be nice to be someone so easily pleased by this game) I'm glad I'm not one of those people And I'm glad I'm not you
@@flaco3462 Sometimes I look at those people who think they have it bad, the ones who feel they've been wronged and are owed something by someone, the candy ass gamers who let every small detail ruin an otherwise good experience, the ones who believe it's always all or nothing, and can't help but feel a bit sorry for them. Just a bit. Self inflicted dissapointment often merits no emphathy. There's having high expectations, then there's being a cunt. Like you, little man.
It's because most of Mother 3's soundtrack would get nintendo sued for copyright, most of Mother 3's songs are all even taking and using parts of popular songs at the time that weren't in public domain and still aren't, in japan this is not a problem because law there is different, but here? Would be a very bad idea.
Brawl was the game that introduced me to Lucas. Absolutely *LOVED* his character development in Subspace Emissary and it is why he is my #1 main (actually was really saddened when he was initially not included in Smash 4 before returning as DLC) in Smash Bros to this day.
The saddest part of not having Subspace story mode is the lack of fighting iconic bosses, atleast add like a boss rush mode or something where that could be done.
so anyone else pissed off that the moves that ness clearly doesnt know are his specials and the incredibly limited use of his toys, along with the complete lack of any meaningful inclusion of PSI Rockin? The same goes for Lucas, too..
Really cool video! As a big MOTHER 3 fan I love hearing your ideas to improving MOTHER 3 Representation in the game, specially the ones with the new victory animation and the new buff special, and of course, more music. That said I will admit I kinda like how Lucas is in Smash. Like first of all, yeah, Brawl Lucas sucks, but I like his base because he goes offensive with Kuma powers to push you off and if he needs to gets close, use kicks and his stick because Lucas actually even if he is really defensive in mother 3, he hits hard and also, the most power attack Pk love is one that cost him a lot of pp and in smash case, can be punish, his Up Smash, thats also a reference to a needle pull. Like in a playstyle level have a bit of Mother 3 flavor. (I Know in Smash ult tips they called it pk geyser but that tips are really... weird? and the end of the day both are show as hexagons and even in smash 4 the colors starts to match even more the pk love animations) Also I kinda like he uses the rope snake, not because is a mother 3 reference, but because Lucas talk with animals and be their friends, and in general feels like this kids that uses pk love in general but then his omega version when is most needed and is doing his hardest and learning from their friends. And maybe this just sounds weird to this point but I also love his character in Brawl history mode, because yes, he is a coward and let ness die, but also, he was scared when he was a child and let claus go to kill the draco and then run away of his dad and grandpa crying in Hinawa funeral, and then he starts to grow and become a better person and be more brave, like in brawl, because he dont make the same mistake twice, he saves Red lifes after he gave up in Galleom hand, he dont lose his new friend again, and also I like how Red becomes more human with him but thats a story for another Day. Like I will argue that Lucas arc in Subspace represent the grow of the character greately. Dont get me wrong, I agreed with most said in this video but I find some of the Smash ideas of Lucas good, his friends are important to him so I like he have references and specially Kuma appears in his final Smash, and I think you can get some of his personality of how he is in Smash, like he still is shy, and I want to praise that a bit, I dont think he is one of the best ones but a okay one with a good base.
Yeah and how if you say you main Lucas, people say “you’re such an annoying person” because of the PK freeze, which Lucas doesn’t even have in mother 3….
I will say you forgot to mention the Palutena's Guidance for Lucas in his Ultimate section, which I have a feeling your view of might be...negative, speaking that Pit and Palutena largely talk about him being shy and questioning why he's even fighting at all, with Viridi calling him a crybaby as well. As a huge fan of Kid Icarus Uprising my opinion on Palutena's Guidance characterizations as a whole are mixed. Great video though! Honestly in my mind Smash Bros. Lucas (especially Subspace Lucas) and Mother 3 Lucas feel like entirely different characters.
Lucas should have had more than one or two moves that he can use. Heck i recently saw a video called Wario vs Lucas that actually represents Lucas perfectly! Its a vs battle episode but there is zero smash stuff. It really feels like Lucas!
The trophies in Brawl all relate to Brawl the most, with Lucas obviously being a character, Mr. Saturn and the Franklin Badge being items, and Porky and the statue being bosses in the Subspace Emmisary.
There is another "remix" in SSBB that debuted in an arrangement album, Sonic's Angel Island, meaning that Sonic technically has never had a remix in Smash.
I think this is a topic that could be heavily expanded upon since there's *so* many instances of poor representations in smash Maybe I could do that....
@@DaEgg123 I think Olimar is the worst. Badly telegraphed attacks, abusage of Pikmin,Next to no strategy, having Alph as an alt even tho they have different personalities and no voice acting which is a crime given how amazing his voice is. Edit:Also you can't see what Pikmin you are throwing.
@@Lukkak09 As a Pikmin fan its also disappointing how stale the Pikmin look, to me one of the most charming visuals in pikmin are the pikmin themselves, and they just seem stale, I know in game they don't really have that much but they could at least make some expressions
Good video! I just think your bit at the end about making his idles more like the other's characters in MOTHER 3 to be going against what you said earlier, about how it feels like Lucas is an amalgamation of MOTHER 3 and not himself, and your suggestion would only make it even more like that.
I don’t know how to word this exactly but I feel like mimicking his friend’s mannerisms isn’t quite the same as Lucas inexplicably having their abilities. Especially when Lucas himself in M3 doesn’t have that many animations to pull idles from, when he does however have many moves and attacks he can do that the developers could’ve pulled from instead of Kumatora’s PSI.
One little thing in Ultimate is very much one of my all time is that Lucas's shirt when zoomed in on is knitted out of wool, which I find cute and a clever reference.
“I don’t think there’s been another case of a new remix being from a pre existing album” Funny thing about that, in the same game there has. Well sorta, it’s a case you briefly went over actually. The Angel Island remix (Sonic’s only remix) is also on True Blue, a Japan only Sonic album released a week prior to Brawl. The album still calls it “SSBB remix,” so I’m meant to assume it was gonna be released after Brawl at first, but the delay caused it to predate it instead.
subspace depicts him as strong the moment he's made a friend he stands up for himself and said friend this could be taken as repeating his arc (implying he's taken out of around the start of mother 3 and ends up the same) or he just needs friends to be a strong person
idk - i sorta disagree on your take regarding Brawl Lucas. maybe that's biased on my part, because Brawl was what made me interested in Mother as a whole xD - but more than that, i was always interested in Lucas MORE than Ness, and i don't believe that was for no reason. i can't help but think the choices they made in the version of Lucas they chose to portray was crucial in making him interesting to me, or any player, at all - be they familiar with Mother 3 or not. and that that would've been lost had they attempted to portray an end-game confidence from the get-go. first off, would doing that have even been more of an accurate or respectful portrayal? i'm not so sure. the appeal of Lucas's journey in Mother 3 is seeing that timid boy slowly grow up, and even if it was jam-packed into a brief microcosm - that being there in the Subspace Emissary actually seems more of an earnest respect for the source material than most characters get in that game at all. as a kid, having played none of these games, there's not much to get you interested in a character like Marth or Roy past superficially thinking sword characters who live in a castle are cool. and that's despite their games giving them tons of interesting characterization and history. that's just sort of the consequence of shoving them into an ensemble cast fully formed. Lucas is afforded so much more than that in giving the player an opportunity to see him shy, meek, alone, then grateful toward Ness for saving him, then guilty over running away when he gets captured - looking up to Pokemon Trainer as a more confident mentor-figure, choosing to go off with him to right his guilt, and eventually, overcome his cowardice and avenge Ness. all without any dialogue. not to mention, from a game design perspective, Mother 3 intentionally keeps you in the dark as to a lot of how Lucas sees the world and interacts with people by the time you take control of him. this just naturally gives a lot less to capitalize on in characterizing him, as opposed to his more clearly defined emotional state and personality prior to become the player character. there would be nothing OUT of character in portraying him as confident as Ness - maybe a bit more solemn to fit the energy of a boy whose overcome his trauma and truly matured, but then there's so much less distinctness you can draw from him there - in the ways they successfully did via character animation and story presentation. you don't get any appeal toward the actually interesting history he has, and instead leave it up to the established fans of that story to extrapolate what makes this character special via their history. and you lose one of the few actual character arcs of the subspace emissary - a character arc that is still VERY in-character for Lucas - just his younger self specifically. on a shallower note, if they were going to use the same proportions of Ness to begin with, he realistically simply was that sensitive and shy at Ness's age xP. honestly, i think the fact that further games have upped his confidence and emotional range is actually the perfect way to address the more complex nature of his character. even a player whose never touched the Mother series could pay attention to how Lucas has been portrayed as less timid, more lively, and more self-assured as the games progress. that in and of itself is a perfect representation of his character arc in the original game.
I think Sakurai and his team maybe made Lucas into a coward in brawl in contrast to Ness who‘s being depicted as brave and powerful. It’s a better character dynamic but it does kinda suck that in smash Lucas isn‘t more than just Ness‘ wimpy sidekick
I mean I feel like his Subspace representation was great. He goes from that depressed crybaby to a more confident young man just like he does in Mother 3.
I think Mother 3 had some great representation in World of Light specifically. The Hinawa spirit fight was at the very end of the story and (spoilers) it made sense that she was a… spirit. All of your points are valid, but I tienda wish you acknowledged the World of Light part
I get your critiques on how Lucas is represented in Mother 3 and feel similarly on some of their points since Lucas is one of my favorite characters in fiction period, but I felt that the choice to make him start off cowardly/scared in Subspace was a good one. By the time Brawl came out, Mother 3 was clearly not getting localized and Sakurai knew this. Something you gotta remember about Smash is that, in the literal lore of the series, all the characters are trophy replicas of the original characters. They're not the actual characters from the games note for note. (Kid Icarus Uprising is the only exception to this rule, but no other character in Smash ever references their adventures in Smash outside of the game series). This isn't the same Lucas from Mother 3 who grew through everything that happened, this is just a trophy clone of him. Likewise, since Sakurai knew that most international audiences wouldn't get to play M3, he decided to give Lucas the character arc he had in M3 but in Subspace. We see Lucas grow from a crybaby into his own strong person who literally saves Pokemon Trainer's life and rises to the challenge of fighting Tabuu with the others, he's literally the only character in Subspace besides ROB who has a character arc which is a huge part of what endeared a lot of people to him internationally, and got them to look into Mother 3. I thought that was perfectly fine honestly. That said, I agree that they really didn't need to spoil all of Mother 3 in Lucas's Brawl trophy, that was pretty rude honestly. Also, one cool thing you missed when talking about Ultimate's spirits, in World of Light Mode (the story mode), Claus and Hinawa are literally the final two spirits you're forced to fight before fighting the final boss, both guarding each end of the paths you can take to get to the end as the very last spirit of their respective routes, you're forced to fight at least one of them before the end, which I thought was a cool way to highlight them in Ultimate itself. Last thing, but the reason a lot of Mother 3's music likely didn't make it into Brawl was explained really well in the "The Legal Reasons Why Mother 3 Will Never Be Localized" video by Moon Channel. Long story short, a lot of M3's OST takes intentional inspiration from a lot of copyrighted songs in the music industry, and when Nintendo tested the waters with posting Mother 3+'s OST on iTunes internationally, it got taken down shortly after in every country that wasn't Japan due to the stricter music copyright. Even stuff like Natural Killer Cyborg references Michael Jackson's Beat It song, which would get copyright striked and get Nintendo a lawsuit, hence why they unfortunately couldn't put it in Brawl or any other Smash game.
I know someone who once told me that when they first saw Ness and Lucas in Brawl alongside their home stages they thought that Earthbound/Mother was an "Animal Crossing-type game" and honestly that tells me everything I need to know about how well the series was represented back then
nah I get it, the way the Mother characters look is pretty cartoony and kinda similar to Animal Crossing. If they (or even just Lucas) were in a style like EarthBound 64’s art style, it’d be a lot easier to tell their from a JRPG.
You could argue Lucas being afraid is because he's first shown by himself. In Mother 3 he at least had his dog Boney after he lost his family with him later getting Duster and Kumatora,but in Brawl he's just alone and sad.
There is another remix that comes from an outside source, that being Angel Island Zone. It was made for a Sonic anniversary album, which makes Sonic's representation even worse. Imagine having only one remix and its not even original. The reason for the lack of Mother 3 trophies is because most trophies are reused models from other games to save time. Since Mother 3 has no models, they just used the models already made for Brawl. It explains other stuff like all the Fire Emblem trophies only coming from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn.
I have a theory as to why Lucas acted the way he did in Subspace (in-universe): Likely, he heard of the disasters that were happening and felt like he should've done more to help, and that even after having gone on his own adventure, he's still a crybaby and/or wimp (their words, not mine). When the King P statue shows up, Lucas has a brief moment of PTSD, probably being horrified at the possibility of Porky somehow escaping the Absolutely Safe Capsule. It wasn't until Ness showed up that he was reminded of his inner courage, and finally decided to rise up again. That's just my two cents on the matter.
I agree with your points. I just think that this Lucas could be him in the middle of the 3 year time skip. and maybe subspace, being a new timeline, is how he started to grow braver like the mother 3 version of him. That's how I see it anyways. Overall I can understand why the representation is lacking.
Tbh idk why they didn’t make Lucas’s classic mode in ultimate, based on the 4 needle bosses, the masked man, porky, and then fight like that monster hunter boss for the dragon
I personally never thought of Lucas as being misrepresented but you bring up some good points! Hopefully he also matures as the Smash franchise goes on.
11:14 *spoilers ahead for mother 3* This idle animation could be a reference to his fight with Claus as the masked man, where if you attack him at a certain phase it will say something like "Lucas closed his eyes" and it will cause you to miss, along with "Lucas was holding back tears" as well maybe? Could also be a reference to when he was a bit more cowardly as a 10 year old boy Mightve gotten the dialogues wrong, havent played M3 in a couple years
To add to your pount of him being strong without spoiling the game, the franklin badge 1v1 boss alone was proof of his courage. All the game led to that moment where he had to stand on his own. I hated lucas until i played mother 3 and realized how dirty they did him
It's not much, but it's absolutely iconic by Sakurai to made the "last" Spirits battles in World of Light from Mother 3. So in the last section of World of Light, the map divides in two sections with "good" spirits and "evil" spirits representing the battle between Galeem and Darkhon, and the Spirits in either side match. Your objective is to beat all the Master Hands and Crazy Hands, to unlock the Final Boss of the mode. And the Spirits right before where the Final Boss appears are Hinawa and Claus from Mother 3. Not from Mario or Zelda, but from Mother 3. (Disclaimer: technically you can fight them before the Final Boss appears as the map is open to go as you wish, but that's still a fact)
6:40 there's actually a surprising other series to have this remixes-only claim, and it's one that you wouldn't ever expect - Pokémon. It took until Smash 3DS to even get a port of Lumiose City by itself, but at the time of Brawl they were remix-only, and Ultimate also only introduced remixes. I think Sakurai is just generally against importing music from a handheld game, fearing lower audio quality? Interesting topic, I feel like it's hard to expect too much when even the base character itself is already bringing 3D life to a GBA sprite, with an expectation that all music has to be remixed (not just for the above, but also to suit New Pork City), but I definitely didn't know about borrowing from the remix CD
I also thought the crybaby attitude made him kinda likeable in comparison to the more personality-less Ness, it at least reflected early game Lucas if they didn't want to spoil the game's progression (ignoring the fact that they did), characters like Shulk more clearly aim to represent the RPG characters mid-game than post-game, with others like realistic sounds Bowser showing Sakurai's desire to represent "his" vision of the characters. Here, I think it worked, Lucas was always one of my favourite characters as a kid
I gave Lucas a pass back then because if any character has a reason to be sad? It's HIM. Plus, at the midnight release of Brawl, they had a tourney, and I chose Lucas, and his Up Smash got me to 3rd place.
Also, Lucas's first weapon was called a stick but was shown to be a wooden baseball bat. The normal wooden stick he uses would be actual Flints weapon. I think they could've down somethings like, giving him his Real bat or Mystical stick.
Interestingly enough, Lucas can equip that stick that Flint steals from Boney. The lumber weapons are exclusive to Flint, but most sticks can be equipped by both characters.
Kumatora’s an adult? I thought she was slightly older than Lucas. Her holding down a job as a waitress at Club Titiboo isn’t too weird when Lucas had a (part time) job moving broken down Clay Men. Obviously the Porky Empire doesn’t care for age restrictions on jobs.
Lucas being a wimpy soft boy is a character defining trait of his. That's like saying Luigi is portrayed as too cowardly despite all the stuff he does in Luigi's Mansion. Lucas is the baby, Claus is the brave one.
In Brawl he seems to act like how he does pre-time skip in Mother 3, which doesn't really make sense with him having all his PSI abilities but whatever. One of the changes I really liked in Ultimate is Ness and Lucas having their PSI moves getting the sprite effects over their moves like PK Fire.
When you bring this up, the first people to say you're wrong are Smash fans with the funniest comebacks ever: "Well you wouldn't have played it if it weren't for Smash", "It's suposed to mirror Lucas journey" Lucas Rep in smash is hilariously bad and it's no secret that it shaped how many people view him since.
I would wager that Ultimate is probably going to be the last smash game. As unfortunate as that sounds, I doubt they’re going to make another. Sakurai’s got a lot of work done on the series and - I think even he agrees that - he needs a break. The fact that it brought back every previous character, that it’s arguably the most competitively balanced of all the games, that it finally has another story mode, and that it had the most crazy DLC characters gives it a sense of finality. In my eyes, Ultimate is Sakurai’s swansong and I believe - whether it be more Kirby or some new series - he’ll keep making games. Just not these ones!
Also ness had a way easier life than lucas did if we’re being real. Ness only faced adversity after he went on his journey. Lucas did as a child and during his journey he had to watch his dad lash out on his townspeople over his mother’s death and kill his brother it’s so sad. Mother 3 might honestly be the best game I ever played right after KH2
I don't know how I feel about his idles being based on his party members. One of the criticisms you had for his moveset was that he felt like an amalgamation of his party rather than his own character.
I said that in the video because I don’t quite think that Lucas mimicking the movements of his friends isn’t quite as jarring as him inexplicably knowing how to use their abilities. Hope that makes sense
@@DaEgg123 Coming back to this video, I think the things you point out in the PK Starstorm (Lucas) trophy are really weird. When you singled out "Princess Kumatora," I thought you were going to bring up the White Ship, but instead you brought up Wess being "the only character to seriously do that." I don't get it. Fassad calls her Princess Kumatora in Chapter 3, and I guess that might not count as "serious," but still, what? She's a princess, White Ship notwithstanding. Also, I am at a loss for words at the reaction to the term "traveling companion." That's what she is. Ninten, Ana, and Lloyd are traveling companions. Ness, Paula, Jeff, and Poo are traveling companions. Lucas, Boney, Duster, and Kumatora are traveling companions.
@@whirl3690 My criticisms there was that the trophy had instances of unnecessarily clunky language used. "Princess Kumatora" just sounds clunky because even if it is technically not an incorrect way to refer to her, it just sounds awkward because basically no other official Mother 3 material calls her by that full name, and in-game, her title of princess is still dubious, and is meant to demonstrate the disconnect of her role assigned and who she is as a character, just flat out calling her that in the trophy feels antithetical imo. As for the travelling companions thing, yes, they all literally are the travelling companions of Lucas and/or Ness/Ninten etc, but it feels like such a weird way to word a party member for a series so cemented in the party characters having strong connections amongst each other (particularly for Mother 1 & 3). Kumatora and Duster don't just join Lucas to help in pulling the needles just because of circumstance, they make a point that they're going to join him because they demonstrate they are invested and care for being with him, in other words, they would be his friends. So again, while "travelling companion" isn't literally an incorrect way to refer to the characters, it just feels unnecessary imo to describe Kumatora as being that rather than, more accurately, just having said she's his friend.
I wish more people would complain about the representation a specific game or series gets in Smash. Mother 3 may not have been represented super well in Brawl, but at least Brawl had a pretty good spread of content (fighters, stages, and music) for every series it represented. Come Ultimate, though, if it's not Mario, Pokemon, or Fire Emblem, it might as well not exist. Pikmin got two new remixes. Earthbound also got two, but one was Fourside, which already had a remix in the game. Star Fox got _zero_ new remixes, but at least it got a few songs from Zero. Sonic, the series _known_ for its music, has no new remixes, and only _one_ remix total. Even the vocal themes aren't even the full versions. The situation for characters and stages for a lot of these series is even worse. At least newcomers (notably Simon and Ryu) have good representation in their movesets, which is a lot more than I can say for most returning characters.
I think subspace emissary’s inclusion is unfinished, sakurai stated he was supposed to be cowardly then grow stronger, but this doesn’t make much since when his depiction everywhere else in the game also depicts him as cowardly. He does save him and the pokemon trainer at one point, but not much else happens in the way of becoming less cowardly. He seems really unfinished, which is ironic considering he was supposed to replace Ness
I think we got enough in the story mode to show his growth, the main thing showing him as a coward is how he runs from Wario, which is paid off when he meets him again and faces him without fear, then after he's never shown as scared again and as you said he saves Pokemon trainer from Galeom