Ludwig Black Beauty - The Evolution 

Thank you so much! I had a blast making it and I’ll be making some new ones soon.

Thank you J. The research for this video was inspired by own curiosity about their process. Once I figured it all out, I thought it was fascinating and that more people would want to know. I enjoyed making this video and so glad that you enjoyed watching it. Thank you!

Thank you so much! I got to learn more about my own drum researching all of this as well.

Thank you!

Thank you so much! I really appreciate it.

Thank you Duane! I really appreciate you taking the time to drop your comment and happy that you enjoyed it!

Thank you for the kind words Earl. It was an inspired video for me to make . The BB in this video was my first legit snare drum and it has significant sentimental value as well.

Thanks Alan. Yeah. I just can’t get myself to swap out this Rogers kit. Its so much fun to play. But If I had a Ludwig kit, I would have used it for this video.

Hey thanks for the positive feedback. Means a lot! Yeah the manufacturing between the spun shells and the later methods is significant. But the entire line up of these drums is just so great. And Great move on the B stock!

Thank you so much!

Amazing drum for sure. Please let me know if you list a video of it. I’d be interested in seeing it. May I ask how much you paid for it? I understand if your prefer not to get into that. Thanks Patrick

Thanks man. Back at ya. Couldn’t have done it w out you! Your podcast is the gold standard for drum history.

Thank you James. I’m currently working on some ideas for some future vids. I love vintage drums and drum history so that’s my focus at the moment. I appreciate you watching and providing such a positive comment. 👍

Thanks Jeff. They really are great sounding drums. I’d love to get one of the early ones but they’re so crazy expensive. I’m sure your early 80s one is super nice. The one that I played in the video was my first real snare drum. I didn’t know how spoiled I was!

Thank you Jeff! I appreciate it!

Thank you Stuart. I appreciate it!

Thanks. Glad you checked it out! Sounds like you got a solid line up of snares. As far as Ludwig’s, I also a jazz fest, a Supra and a 14 x 8 Classic Maple.

Thank you Ryan! I appreciate the feedback

@@eddieavakian I will definitely reference this video to my students who really appreciate the history and culture of percussion. We would love to see more! Do you have a Patreon or other means for community support?

@@ryanrussell2032 thanks Ryan. At this point I have been making a few videos w the vintage gear that I own and don’t have a significant platform anywhere. I’ll keep making them until I run out of drums, then I’ll buy some more! Lol. If you want to see some good drum history content, Anthony Amodeo goes deep into Rogers. You should check out his Facebook page. I have two other videos that you may want to check out. 1. is on my lates 60s Rogers and 2. the other is on two 6 lug vintage snare drums: pioneer and Luxor. Some history is discussed in those as well. Thanks for watching Ryan!

Hey thanks! Yeah it’s a great groove concept. I got from Pete Thomas. He played it on the Los Lobos track Whiskey Trail and a similar groove for Squeeze track called Third Rail.

Thank you Yvan! It means a lot to me to have you say this.

Thanks for watching it. I love this drum.

I’ve never played one of the hand hammered ones but was always curious to try one out. You’re the first person to give me first hand feedback. I hope you still have yours! The Rogers kit is all original. Late 60s: 13, 18, and 22. The 18 floor has 4 legs. It’s the best sounding kit I have. I did a video on it a few months back. Check it out !

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2EJjmOVvNek.html

@@eddieavakian Back in the mid-80's I bought a hammered bronze snare after reading Alan White's comments about his. Unfortunately I was too young to really know what I was doing at that stage in life, owning it during the last of my teens and into my early 20's, and I have only faint memories of it - although I do remember a producer once telling me that it sounded fantastic to him, using the phrase "it sounds like a sample!"

It’s something that I didn’t know either for most of my drum playing lifetime. It’s really an interesting history. I actually just posted a video that goes back even further in to Ludwig’s earliest history. Check it out. It’s a fascinating story. Thanks Jayyless! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Py1clIzR-pY.html

Thank you David! And I appreciate you taking the time to check it out!

@@eddieavakian Keep groovin'! Best 👍👍

@@davidcurtis4478 thanks brother. You too!

I don’t have any aluminum shells at all. I need to pick one up for sure. I do love the early 80s one I’m playing in the video. It’s a tank of a drum and it’s tuning range is extreme.

Very cool. I’d love to see some of them. If I find one, will it be yours or did they have other engravers as well?

@@eddieavakian A majority were mine, but I believe John Aldridge did some. Mine would be signed with either “RDS” or “Reid D. Smith - RDS Engravers” inside beneath the vent hole.

@@reidsmith9575 ok cool. I’m going to see if I can track one down!

Thank you so much! I appreciate you checking it out and giving me positive feedback.

Hi Ryan. The super early ones ones are astronomical and it’s hard to find one from the late 70s early 80s. If you do those are very expense as well. Obviously there is a premium for owning a piece of history and collectors bring up the price. The new ones are more reasonable, but as correctly point out, that there are similar drums for less money. Thanks for watching and for your input.

You can buy a black nickel over brass from other brands but it won’t be a black beauty.

All of the Ludwig premium drums are priced high.Reason being,my opinion,is that top end Ludwig and Gretsch drums hold their value over the years for resale and collectors...

How do you know if your drum is made of bronze? I have one from the late 80s.

@@thomasdevino3876 Hi Thomas. The late 80s version should have a stamp underneath the butt plate. BR for Brass and BZ for Bronze. Let me know which one you have.

Thank you so much! This drum has a fascinating history so it was satisfying to go thru it’s history and put it all on one video.

@@eddieavakian yeah, for sure. it's amazing how the sound of this drum is noticeable among others. I guess I can't wait to catch up with who was playing em. thanks so much for your reply! Matt (drums)

Thanks for checking it out Julian!

Thank you so much for the sub! I'd love to hear that story. Can you scribe in the comments? I am sure other girls/gals would love to hear it as well. Do you still have that drum?

I’ve heard a few stories about pawn shop scores. I did a video on a guy who found a rare early 1900s Sonor that was being used as an end table.

Thank you. Was Bob a designer back at Covington Ohio? I

No,Bob was the designer for the new drums.Dynasonic snare,drum sets, tom and leg holders, colors.@@eddieavakian

@@user-ub6hd3nd4l got it. The new Rogers kits are well made drums and sound great

Yeah. I love vintage drums but I can’t get myself to buy one that I can’t, or feel guilty playing. Those early De Luxe models are museum pieces but they do sound amazing! Thanks for watching

Hey Mark. I’ve never played a Supralite but one of my best sounding snares is a raw steel 5 x 14 A&F. Steel is that perfect balance between aluminum and brass. Not too dry and not too resonant. Just looked up the Supralite and a new one is only $200! Thats unreal.

@@eddieavakian It's insane for the money. I had sound engineers record my snare sound to sample it because they were so impressed.

@@markmullen1852 It’s my next purchase! Thanks the heads up on this.

@@eddieavakian Not a problem. Sounded good after tuning it out of the box. Sounded amazing after putting a Remo CS black dot underneath head on it. You can make it sound like a super fat 70's sounding snare, ( Mick Fleetwood) or crank it up and it cracks like Bonhams. Best $200 I've ever spent.

Yeah I believe that Steinway purchased Conn and the selmer company which was then purchased by Paulson. It’s hard to keep up w the corporate pac-man game. They still make great drums. I recently purchased a couple A & F snare drums that I love. All hand made, imperfections and all, like the old days.

@@eddieavakian Unlike other drum companies that were taken over by corporate interests Ludwig has continued to produce fantastic drums. I wouldn't trade by Classic Maples for anything. Let's hope the hedge funders continue to keep the right drum people in place. I bet your A&F snares are fabulous! Have heard nothing but great things about them. Cheers!

Like you said, those inconsistencies give every vintage drum a different sound and mojo. It’s also why I’m going broke buying so many drums! 😂😂

@@eddieavakian 😂😂😂 truth!

Thank you for the compliment! I’ve never played the bronze but it’s my understanding that the shell specs are the same and I don’t expect there to be a sonic difference due to the plating. I’m speculating that they took advantage of the popularity of the Black Beauty to sell more Bronze drums. Now the very early BBs compared to the 1976 are totally different drums. A welded shell v a seamless shell, different hardware etc. The spun process of the earlier drums was also less consistent than the later process so there are differences among the older drums. The saying goes that If you find one that’s in great condition it’s probably not one of the better ones. The beat up ones are the ones that people played the most. I’m sure this isn’t true but it supports the idea that they were less consistent than the later models.

Thank you for the compliment! I tune by ear but the tune-bot showed both heads tuned to a B3. I usually tune the bottom head higher but that’s not how this drum ended up for me. The hats are 15 inch meinl extra dry and the ride is a 22” meinl extra dry. Happy to provide any further information. Thanks!

I agree. While there isn’t any formal records of this, it’s widely believed that the 400 is THE most recorded and the BB is right behind it. In the video i said that the BB is “one of most”. This is to leave room for the 400 likely taking the number one spot.

I’d love to grab on the those older BBs but they’re out off the charts expensive right now. The one I have is a totally different drum obviously but I do love it.

in actual sound terms what does "warmer" mean?

@@krusher74 Warmer meaning less like a sharp metal tone and a bit of what you may expect out of a wooden Slingerland Radio King....but the 1920s Black Beauty will have more volume when you need it; more than the Radio King.

Thanks Thomas. I appreciate your positive words!

Thanks man! Yeah that’s the one. It was my first legit snare drum. I really loved it back then, but I have so much more appreciation for it now. Plus it has that sentimental value that makes it more than just a drum to me.

@@eddieavakian It sounds so good. That's mostly due to the tuning and the cat playing it. Fantastic video... you continue to be an appreciated source of inspiration

@@Rogersdrumvideos oh man. That means so much brother! Thank you!

Yes! It’s a late 60s. I got lucky and bought from a guy who refused to ship it so it went unsold for a while. I drove from LA to Napa to pick it up. I did a video on it if you want to check it out. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2EJjmOVvNek.html

Yeah I’ve never seen anything like that. Approx what year ?

They would't have been given that name, that's for sure. It wasn't even Ludwig that came up with the name, but the drums looked amazing, especially with engraving and sounded great. The real marketing was that they were used by so many top drummers of the time and were on so many recordings. That's a tried and true formula still being used by drum companies today.

The snare guards are Ludwig parts. Don’t know the part number. The late 70s drums had the ones you see here. The older ones had a more solid and flat faced guard. I did have some repairs done by Ross at the Drum Doctors here in Los Angeles but he old used original parts. It was a while ago and I don’t recall what he replaced.

I see. Thanks for the reply.@@eddieavakian

That’s my understanding as well. The black beauty is supposedly behind it. There are no official stats on this but it’s widely accepted that those drums are the top one and two. In the video I say that the black beauty is “one” of the most recorded drums, not that it’s THE most. I left room for the Supra as it’s likely the number one.

It’s a great choice. There are a few available thru reverb. Can you get a refund and purchase one of those? The ones a saw are B stock which usually have nothing noticeable wrong and sold at a nice discount. I purchased a supra b stock and I can’t find a single blemish.

Thank you Dave. Yeah I’d love to hit that one (pun intended 😁). My last few vids are based on drums that are in my collection. I have only a few more before I run out so I appreciate tips for new topics.

@@eddieavakian Sounds like a great excuse to buy some more snare drums!

@@sparknado Sure is! 😁

Hey Simon, A superphonic is aluminum while a black beauty is typically brass (could be bronze). I don’t know the “BT” at the end of your model number but yours is a black beauty. I don’t believe they make black nickel aluminum snare drums. I don’t keep up as much w modern offerings as i do the vintage lines. It’s important to mention that these drums, and how the materials were made, have changed so much over time and a drum from the 20s is not the same drum as one from the 70s, 90, or a modern one. As an analogy, your situation is like someone who owns a 1950s Mercedes tell you that you don’t own a Mercedes because yours is newer. Totally different car but both are a Mercedes.

Never played one but I hear they the Joyful is a great drum. Haven't heard much on the MIJ but I will look into them for sure. Thanks for the heads up.

As far as I know, they’re making them as part of their normal line. But I could be wrong. I don’t have any inside information about their future plans.

You probably have a P85 strainer. Those are notorious for sticking. I don’t know for sure what strainers have the same hole spacing but you should call a drum shop and ask and replace it. The new strainers are really good. You have a great drum there.

@@eddieavakian thanks for that tip will do👍

I read and heard as early as 1928 and as late as 1930. I can’t be sure but I figured it’s possible the sale agreement took a year or two to be finalized so I went with “by 1930” instead “in 1930”.

Thanks Steve. It’s a 20” Agop dry crash. Super dry and trashy but records like champ! It does it’s thing and then shuts up pretty quick.

@@eddieavakian thanks for your reply!

@@SteveOGonzalez of course! Glad to help!

No disrespect taken! I obviously love Rogers vintage drums. This kit is a Covington/Dayton eta. I did a video on this kit - see link- In that video I’m using a COB powertone. My favorite snare is a late 60s wood powertone. I also did a video comparing a Pioneer to a Luxor. Those are both great snare drums as well. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2EJjmOVvNek.html

I’ve never seen a 12 lug. It’s got to be a very limited run or some kind of special order ?

One of the very few things still make in the USA! 😁

@@eddieavakian Exactly

Thanks Chris. This drum is a tank and it does it all. There’s not a tuning it doesn’t like.

@@eddieavakian Never used the BB but have for years used the 6/12 'Bohnam' snare. Fantastic durability.

@@christrudell7966 it’s on my list. In fact I don’t have any aluminum drums at at all. I have brass, bronze. Steel, and even a titanium. Supra is my next buy for sure.

@@eddieavakian good stuff Eddie! Keep em coming

@@christrudell7966 thanks brother. Will do!

Yeah It’s my opinion as well but I tend to favor vintage gear in general. More character. But I do like the new strainers.

I own so many snare drums not no aluminum. I definitely need to pick one up. I have brass, bronze, copper, steel, and even titanium.

...and this is very, very true. Cheers

I prefer my Tama Starphonic alu (seamless shell) over my Ludwig BB... sorry guys

@@drummerboyharm3078 the day I got the BB that I’m playing in the video back in 1981, I also got my first “real” drum set. A Tama Superstar. I still have it today. It’s awesome. I love Tama but have not owned a Tama snare. I’m sure it sounds amazing. Thanks for watching man!

@@eddieavakian Hi Eddie. it's a great video you've made about a nice piece of history! Thanks! Kind regards from The Netherlands 😁

I never owned a copper snare but I have an A&F kit that’s copper. Sounds amazing.