Lyle Mays Solo on James: What Is the Basic Structure? 

Life wouldn't be the same...Yes. Thank you!

I mean... How can I disagree with that? I feel the same way. I hear this solo and it's smiles and tears. So honest humble and at the same time so able and imaginative. Two other favorite solos that have a similar effect on me (more or less): Pat's solo on Coral (Keith Jarrett) from the album Quartet with Gary Burton (2008) and the other is Keith Jarrett's solo on Innocence from the album Personal Mountains.

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Yes there are other solos that have similar effect. But only Lyle Mays can do that repeatedly. Jarret has released dozens of records. Lyle unfortunately so few.

@stepanok I totally agree. Its the same with his Solo from „Better Days Ahead“ from the Album „The Road to You (Live)“.

absolutely.

Mines too, Bob. He was a composer-improvisor. His solos sound like complete thought-out compositions.

Same here, Sergio, I've always been fascinated by these pop-like melodies. Which we know how hard it is to design in the way he does. It's "easy" the same way Mozart is "easy." I don't know if you're a Mozart fan or not, but the thing about him, his melodies... I could listen to a flute quartet after not hearing it for 5 years, then listen to the theme of the third movement and... remember it instantly as if it were one of his top 5 melodies. (sometimes I think It would be healthy for Lyle just finally to say "Ok, Ok... I love pop music," :) The melodic design of the B and the A part in this video deserves a full semester on melodic and rhythmic design. About the Berg sonata, I've played it once in a piano recital (the only one I've ever done). Let me know if you have any specific thoughts about it.

​@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer ( Frustrating to write an spirited lengthy response, and then BAM!, youtube messed up and Gone , Ha!. ) I Don´t think Lyle would be at all offended by this ¨ Pop ¨ preferences. He adores Earth Wind and fire, Steely Dan, and the likes. This could be like the ¨Mozart¨ highest standard of Pop, which is a lot more than some present day use of autotune and sadly poor sorry to say ... music. I think that really good Pop music, is one of the hardest genres, with nowhere to hide. Speaking of motifs, and Berg , That an improviser come up with this rhythm and melodic designs in real time, is just mind blowing. Allas , All the greats did it (Bach, Beethoven, Mozart ) It took me a lot of years to realize what Lyle was doing ( beyond my mere enjoyment ) , by artfully designing this manipulations and connections using very little source material, as in the Berg Sonata ( Almost the entire piece derives from the first 3 phrases ). I was so obsessed by this work, that i learned entirely too. Almost all Lyle said in some interviews, i took it as if i were his student and checked out this and that. There is a moment in the Alban Berg Sonata (The slower second theme), in which a Chord is almost verbatim of something Lyle Played on the Expanded Improvisations Album, where this kind of harmonic language is much more present than in PGM stuff ( And probably the least ¨ Pop ¨ for some listeners that might not be into it and thats OK too ). My Dream video would be a full length Documentary of Lyle in which he talks about all this in detail.

​@@SergioValenzuela There's a bug with RU-vid, I think. A big chunk of this message was also erased, luckily I used the undo on my keyboard, and it reappeared! Have we spoken about the Lyle article in Gil Goldstein's book? There's also the program with Marian McPartland, where he demonstrates motivic development. I guess you already know about this stuff, but just in case, he really goes deep into the problem of chords and composition stuff. Also, have you heard the live recording of the group from 2009? He's wild there! Dark and chromatic more than ever... it's on Apple Music now. How is it going with your composition?

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer That´s annoying!, glad you got it back!. I Have that Book !, and read that article many times, also the (dear) Marian McPartland show. (Love the bit where he mocks the real book changes of Stella by starlight :) ) Not Sure about the 2009 recordings You mentioned, Metheny Group song book tour ?, is that the one with a crazy quasi barroque 3 voice solo over James i think... i also transcribed a Solo from better days ahead that is more caracteristic of this last days with PMG... You ask about my composition?

@@SergioValenzuela Yea, I figured you knew all that stuff already. And you've probably heard of the podcasts "about the music" where they talked about the making of Wichita (apple music - just in case). Anyways do you know the part is Marian McPartland where Bill Evans demonstrates the basic structure of The Touch Of Your Lips? He was connected to the spirit of Schenkerian Analysis, studying composition at Mannes. And yes, interested in your composition.

Apart from talent and good taste, It’s coming from having a lot of music in his “bank account”. He had “deposited” a lot of music into it, from playing classical music songs and jazz…

Matt, I'm sure he designed it ahead of time with Steve knowing the exact progression on bass. That band was so right and smart about everything. Pat took many solos - but only he can play these long solos on top of extended chunks of composed material music - like in part one of The Way Up starting 26:30 (when the opening and part one are on a single track). As you're saying, Lyle is always designing things - slowing or composing. He was such a virtuoso in the early days of the band, so from then on, he started a process of making composition and soloing one thing. I liked it how he's back to being a monster soloist on Speaking Of Now though - I think It's healthy for him :) and It added so much to the band. As much as he emphasizes his interest in classical music and equations and math - he's a very passionate musician who loves songs and pop music too. Pat is very comfortable talking about how to him Karen Carpenter's singing is no less than Coltrane. I think It's a good thing, he fully accepts himself. P.S I didn't know he used to solo on 557!

​@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Good point about Steve being aware of what Lyle wanted to do. The interesting thing about James is how much the PMG changed the tune as they played it over the years. The reggae version they played in the mid 80s was strange, but it showed what a flexible tune Pat wrote and why it's his most popular tune. I really like how Lyle got so many solos on Speaking of Now. And yet of the four, only Proof is in the context of a more traditional jazz solo. I have a recording of the first time they played 557 in 1988. After Pat's solo, Lyle plays one and then Paul plays a cymbal solo before going back to the head. I don't think there's a key change at the end either. It's interesting to hear the earlier version, but Lyle's contribution to the composition adds more than his solo.

@@matt-spaiser Pat released a few live albums of the group recently. On one of them, they play James only 10 days after it was composed. It's on apple music, you got to listen to it :)

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I've had these recordings for years. But aren't they all bootlegs? I suspect that once Pat finds out they will be removed.

@@matt-spaiser You know what It's already on Apple Music so maybe he's behind it? A while ago he talked about these Japan gigs from 2009, specifically I recall on Lyle solos on To The End Of The World that he thought needed to be released at some point. Anyways I'm glad it's out! :) Btw, do you know the Bill Evans radio program with Marian McPartland?

Yes, that's the best... Thanks Jose Luis!

Thank you my friend! 🙏

Thanks, Steven! I feel the same way. You know, rhythmically speaking, in some earlier recordings of the band, there were a moment or two of rushing - not Lyle. His piano in the background is always so tastefully rhythmical. This is probably how he hears music: the right notes, placed musically on the grid. Oh, and that thing at the end, it's just something I recorded here to experiment with background music. I might make one or two more. And thanks for watching the videos! :)

thank you, Bill, Somehow I missed this comment, I agree with you, Lyle's upcoming book (done by Lyle and a close friend) will make this more accessible to musicians!

Thanks John!

I hear you Bill… let’s cherish and be thankful what we got from this couple. Unbelievable 🙏

Thanks Andoni!

Thanks Giovanni! I'm so glad to hear that you connected with the content - honestly, a lot of the theory taught today is making things difficult to musicians. the main reason is focusing on the ground level, where you have countless types of chords and scales, instead of the deeper levels of harmony - where things are much more clear. I explain more of that on my Instagram account (by the same name). Thanks again!

Unbelievable - pure music

Thank you!!

Thanks Nello!

Thanks Bob (am I right about the name?), sounds like something Lyle came up during a soundcheck with Steve. The A part harmony is logical, but the B part, that II - V - I descend, getting all the way doing to G#m7 - C#7 - F# and THEN an unexpected skip to Em7 -A7 - D. That skip not logical. It's surprising and emotional. That's who he is.

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Its Bob, Rob or Robert. It don't really matter Guy.

Thanks Robert :)

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I like that unexpected stuff when the rules seem to be broken, but if your ears like it why not. A movement is just what it says I think. Chord progressions with rhythm or beat and a melody have got to be the trinity

Absolutely fantastic solo isn’t it …

Thank you Charles! :)

Yes, He was. It hearts hearing the words "Lyle was.."

Like he did in Song For Bilbao! You're the first one who mentioned big band, I've been thinking about that too, but in the context of the Ouverture or The Way Up, when they get back to the central motif,(the last minute of it) Lyle ( I believe) deconstructs it with these massive chords. It has always sounded to me like something coming from the tradition of big bands. You know what I mean?

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I was thinking Song for Bilbao, but he had been using the horns on MIDI piano since the Still Life (Talking) tour on the Minuano interlude and Third Wind outro.

I've always described Lyle's sense of "comping" as being far more like "in real time orchestrating". Sometimes being very big band, others more like Gil Evans, and others like Debussy. But all really - just Lyle being Lyle and not accepting being lazy with his left hand and just comping chords. He is, at all times, a 10 fingered orchestra and he deploys it with full effect.

Hi from what record is this version please?

@@facelen4321 This was not released on any record. It was part of the concerts recorded for The Road to You, which is why it sounds so good.

Thank you! :)

Of course! It's my pleasure!

Hey Guy! Thanks! Yes, Steve Rodby is fully aware of the progression - he had the changes in advance for sure.

Hi Paolo! I listened to this solo again last night. It's so beautiful and emotional! I'm glad you liked the video!

Thank you!!

So that's where he got it from :)

Thanks Chuck!!

Thanks John!

Thanks Daniel!

Lyle clearly had a part with his "solo changes" written out for the bassist to read and/or learn

Thank you so much Renato!

Taylor!

@@matt-spaiser I sat behind Pat at a James Taylor concert one night. For most of the night my eyes were fixated on Pat's every movement trying to see what he liked. A bit obsessive, but, well, I was. Another Pat/James moment was when I saw Pat demonstrate the Synclavier promotional event at Berklee. Before Pat played a sample recorded the day before he told a story. In NYC he had a mic set up in order to sample an audience members voice that he would then play all over the guitar neck. He said he didn't have his glasses on or contacts in and so he had no idea who it was until he heard the voice. He then played the sample and played all over the neck. Of course it was James Taylor. (Lest you think I am stalking you I just happened to want to respond to this comment and after saw your name! Weird!)

@@davidfleuchaus So, I guess that would mean it's possible that James T (virtually) sang the song named for him...before he ever heard it !? Lol, Amazing!! That's a great story, thank you for sharing it!

Thank you, thank you!

Thank you! Did you know that solo?

I didn’t! It’s pretty mindblowing.. so accurate and lyrical at the same time, and also - it’s so Lyle! His signature on that tune... superb

Thanks man! He is! (and thanks for noticing the spelling! :))

(15 seconds into the recording on Portrait in Jazz)

Thanks man :)

Oh thanks, Dennis! How about this solo huh?

Oh yeah…

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer you also brilliant

@@MsRiccig thanks Ricky 🙏

You're not a musician but you understand the music, Ivan! Thank you!

Thanks David!

Look on RU-vid for Pat Metheny group James 90’s

Hi, Thank you very much! :) I'm using the Nord Stage 2 88HA.

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Thank you so much for the info Sir! xx

Thanks Benjamin! And yes, it is! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-N45vLwEvL00.html

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer Was wondering the same thing thanks!

Pat said the name refers to James Taylor. In fact on their set lists back in those days they listed the tune as “James Taylor”.

@@JohnnyBeeDawg Exactly 😀 Have you heard the very first version of it? They have released some live recordings on apple music Spotify, and on one of them from 1981, I believe there's a recording 10 days after it was composed. it's slow and sweet - like a Carpenters song :)

@@dr.guyshkolnik_composer I have not heard that early version, but will look for it. Thank you for that, and this video! I’ve had this solo for many years on a bootleg recording , and have always thought it was my favorite version from Lyle. Nice to see you play it.

It’s on RU-vid, look for Pat Metheny Group - James ‘90s

It's a recorded live version :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-N45vLwEvL00.html

Jorge Carretero the James is James Taylor

:)

It’s filled with so much joy