The locking design is actually superior to the Walther. That whole large flat surface on top is what locks into the top of the slide, and the force of recoil goes straight through the block in compression. The two 'ears' are only used for camming. The Walther P38, and other pistols with similar locking design such as the Beretta 92, have the block turned the other way up. The two little ears are used for locking and can be snapped off, so that locking blocks are a major weak point in these later designs.
Another of the reasons that I like your channel! Back in 1970 the John Wayne movie "Big Jake" had one of his sons carrying a pre-production example of a German semi-auto pistol. In the movie they used a P38 with a few cosmetic details to make it look "older". Now you show me this Muller which looks startlingly like the weapon fixed up for a movie made over 45 years ago! Color me impressed.
I wonder why he didn't offer the pistol on the commercial market, i know that it was expensive but the action and the build quality would probably attract costumers.
The cost would have only come down to acceptable levels when produced in large quantities, which would have required a military sale before a commercial release could become viable. Besides, Müller probably didn't have a way to pre-finance the production, which would be another reason why he needed that military contract to begin with mass production in the first place...
Generaly swiss military stuff is well built and way overbuilt. And expensive. Everything from the showels to the rifles is made like that. Hey, even the nails for the horseshoes have a swiss cross stamped on them and an inspection to ensure the specs (I wish I was jonking).
Ive watched alot of youtube gun videos, but you are the best at showing how guns work. Your also much better than most in how you speak. Good job Ian. Very entertaining and interesting!
Fritz Walther was deemed in the appropriate literature, having invented the P 38 locking block. I remember having read, "Fritz Walther was supposedly the most flexible and vivid designer in pistol design of his time." This Müller Swiss Gun design opens up an entirely new picture of the situation.
Swiss Gun love! More pls 😀 - I live next to Winterthur, back in ye older days, Winterthur was a major mechanical Manufacturing center. Sadly, most of it is gone now :(
Another sad casualty of the early scrap to win big military contracts in the early 20'th century. Thanks for continuing to bring these gems to light, Ian!
Even after so many excellent presentations from you, I remained amazed that you keep getting your hands on rare-as-hen's teeth century old foreign handguns. Another rabbit out of the hat. And I don't think a magician would like to share his tricks ...
I actually thought the same. Also a really nice looking pistols I just find it a bit sad that Ian didnt look at the sights a bit, would have wondered how the sight picture of this thing looks like :D
SonsOfLorgar actually even in WW1 it was common for officers to hold a pistol and a club or a dagger to fight CC in the trenches. And personally I'd keep the pistol in my left hand to have my strong hand ready to beat down some other dude :D
Overall, this reminds me of the Beretta 92FS (the US military M9 service pistol). Short recoil operation, magazine fed, mainly machined-out construction, a safety lever on the rear of the frame, and a takedown lever on the forward part of the frame. It's arranged differently, with the return spring and guide rod assembly in the upper-rear instead of the lower-front and the magazine release on the base of the grip instead of near the trigger. Someone should revive this design. It would probably not be terribly difficult or expensive to make now with the advances in computer-controlled milling machines.
I looks, to me, a little like the pistol that Mal Reynolds had in the Firefly/Serenity series, just with a Luger-type grip rather than the revolver grip.
That had a revolver cylinder and a pump action style forend slide along with a magazine. I think it was actually designed to make no sense as a joke, but I can't be sure.
I agree. Ian's channel is full of intersting guns, that are cool and reasonable enough to be guns in an alternative world setting and retro-sci-fi but actually working.
This gun looks so nice and looks smooth to operate. Could of been used in WW2 and no one would of questioned it. I bet even in today's standards it would be competitive.
It is easy to disassembly, but it looks like a pain to clean. Parts have complex shapes and the ejection "port" leaves the mechanisms exposed. Combined with tightly packed sliding parts this makes the pistol look to be prone to jams.
I don't see what makes the locking block drop down so that the slide unlocks from the barrel assembly. In a P38 there is a pin that contacts the frame and pushes the block out of the locked position. I don't see that on this piece and if the locking block is being cammed along a surface in the frame I am not seeing where or how that occurs.
It appears that the take down piece also acts as the camming surface the lock piece rides on. If this is the case, it would explain it's complexity as opposed to just using a dowel.
I'm surprised that SOMEBODY didn't want these. The simplicity of design ensures a more efficient build rate, the lock mechanism ensures a very safe weapon, it suffers none of the toggle lock reload weakness, the internal rails could show an accuracy equivalent to a Sig P-210. The U.S.' affection for revolvers, perhaps, might account for enough 'reason' to deny it, rather more than too weak a firing pin spring. But then again, how would I know? Love your vids, thanx.
I'm a bit puzzled by the overall layout. It ejects spent brass out the left side of the gun, but the controls were obviously designed with a right hand dominant user in mind.
It certainly looks like a prototype for the P.38, even down to the locking wedge. Karl could have just simplified it a little to meet military requirements and gone into production.
Wow, 2016?? Ian has been filming fireplace collection owner's collection for half a decade AND HE ISN'T DONE YET! Can we get a beer and / or a steak for this secret content benefactor? Thank you, sirs! Keep them coming!
I like that it ejects to the left. Great for a lefty not having the hot brass fly across the body.and over the shoulder (hopefully not hitting the head). LOL
In 1902, this is defiantly a wonderful design. I mean, there is a ton of unnecessary machining there, but simply the machining a bit, and I see no reason why that should not had been the big thing in pistol design for that time period. I think this is more viable then the Luger's toggle lock. In fact it is very much an overly complicated P38. That machining sure does give it a distinct look though.
It seems to eject out the left, I wonder if the designer was left handed? Ejection side isn't a big deal in pistol shooting, just a curious choice when most other self loaders eject out the top or right side.
Why does the upper part look so complex? Are those sights, rails for something or just ribs to strengthen the already bulky slide? Oh, BTW, since yesterday I'm one of your "only a buck a month" patrons. 8D
Ease of disassembly seems to be inversely proportional to the ease of making it. Still, really neat to see a reasonably modern safety, modern disassembly and modern recoil system in such an old gun - despite the 9001 machining operations required to make it.
It looks like it fits the aesthetics of the StG 44 very well.
8 лет назад
Just because I know you take pride in pronounciation, Mr. McCollum sir - Müller in German would sound closer to "Myller" or even "Miller" than "Mueller". Cracking video as always!
It looks great for the time its been designed in, but i can only imagine that the need for those locking surfaces and the rails and whatnot to be accurately machined would´ve made this gun really expensive to produce... and hard to produce quickly.
Got to be one of the smartest pistols ever made! What a tragedy it disappeared.So many able inventors at that time,so many advanced opportunities lost!
This one was very interesting. Outwardly it kind of looks like a Luger and a Walther P-38 thrown together. Anyway, it appears that the locking wedge is supposed to be pinned on that slide assembly thing but I noticed that there wasn't a hole drilled in that part. I guess either it was not quite a finished piece or they figured it didn't need to be pinned in place. Seems like it could possibly have contributed to reliability issues?
I suspect that the hole was for centering to guide the machine that ground the curved pivoting surfaces. Those surfaces are large to withstand the force, a pin as well would be redundant.
Does the falling block falls pulled by gravity or is forced by some pin, like the Beretta M9? To me it looks strange that it only relies on gravity, considering all the friction acting on the surface.
You can automate RU-vid releases, and upload them in advance. That's how you can, for example, release videos at both Forgotten Weapons and InRange at the same time - which causes major problems for me because WHICH ONE DO I WATCH FIRST?!
I'd never had the funds to be able to buy and own a gun like that but I can't help but wonder if I did: would I buy that gun? It's so smooth and while it may not be sleek it has charm with all those angles.
I wonder, if German Officers sometimes purchased their own pistols like British ones did, how well would one of these perform in the trenches, since we know the Luger P08 did surprisingly well
Just by looking over it, any decent gun designer could have simplified it pretty easily. Strange thing that it took "the third of a century" until someone did. I´d say Walther definitely had a Müller at hand or in mind, when he designed the P38.
Funny some of these old guns really grab me, and make me wish I could have one, mostly because of their looks. This gun, however makes me wish I had one, not because of the looks, because really it is UGLY, but because of the way it works, it is a wonderful design. NOW that earlier gun by the same maker with the curved bolt, that was sheer beauty, and something I would love to have just to show off in a nice glass covered case.
Federico Masini : It was a wild and crazy time for firearms development. Not terribly surprising that good arms were overlooked or bypassed amidst all the noise.
what's strange about it? Yeah it's a cool gun but there were better options available at the time. Luger and Browning being the two most prominent examples.
Edgar Valencia How exactly is the Luger inferior? It's been proven to be a more reliable system, even in adverse conditions and it only lost out because it was too expensive... And if you actually read up or watched any or Ian's videos, you'd know the Luger *Was too expensive to manufacture in large quantities, so the German Army started trials to replace it for a cheaper service pistol*, it wasn't replaced cause it was bad, quite the opposite it's probably one of the most reliable pistols of all time, but it's also one of the most expensive military handguns ever.
Max Pain Well no. Have you ever seen Ian's videos on the Luger? He's actually done the research, and mud tests, and more. Also, having fired both pistols myself I can tell you the Luger is a lot more reliable (albeit, I have more rounds on it since I actually own it) but it seems to perform better from my experience. Now this isn't to say the P38 is bad, not by any means... But the fact of the matter is, the Luger is a much better fit, tighter toleranced gun and it shows when you actually handle the gun.
teufeldritch I would agree to a point. To me the square shape and simple lines mixed with the exposed barrel speak to almost a blend of a p08 and a g17, while looking much better than a combination of those two should look
very nice looking pistol one thing would make me wonder about it as a military weapon is it look like it would get full of dirt pretty easy but still quite beautiful weapon.
It's a shame Mueller gave up on developing this pistol, because with a few refinements and simplifications, it could have been an outstanding service pistol IMHO.
