That’s because most of those movies were shot in Spain and relied on the Spanish Army for technical support. In the movie Patton (1970) they used M48s for German tanks, and M41s and M47s for American tanks, as they were all used by the Spanish Army.
My Grandfather served in M47 tank as a gunner in Pakistan Army. He took part in the battle of Chawinda (1965). He served in 19 Lancers regiment ... 6th armored division. He was a sweet guy and was proud of his service, never liked wars. He passed away 4 years ago.
You forget to mention that Portugal was the first country in Europe to receive the M47 ! We received more or less 130 tanks in 1953. They are all new from factory. We (the portuguese Army tank museum, in Elvas, in the spanish/portuguese border) are rebuilding one of this M47.
@@Cohen.the.Worrier The threat of a Soviet block invasion, with their many many many tanks, ensured a healthy supply. The peace dividend & the mainly counter insurgency role of the 90's, 00's and 10's relegated the tank forces to become a fraction of the size they were. Plus, the ballooning costs due to how advanced tanks were becoming (like fighter jets, in that regard) only compounded that.
I still remember starting to learn just out of curiosity about the difference between M47 and M48 by firing range hard targets and tanks on display at German armour school during my first two courses of my officer's training. Thanks for bringing back memories and good luck and success with the restoration.
@@BeefIngotWell, that i learned about the various cold war US tank designs and how to distiguish them. As somebody barely knowing anything about tanks, that was a good start 😅
@@BeefIngot Sorry, for that i would have had to work for the Wehrtechnische Dienststelle. Also, when you got a hard target assigned, it often looked already quite destroyed, no chance to make any of those observations.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 I wouldn't say it's a problem. It's a feature. Stop gaps tend to not be stuffed with every untested geegaw, doodad and gizmo they can fit inside it. They tend to just be built with known reliable components. Because it's nobody's pet project they don't over complicate things. Tons of amazing weapons systems were stop gaps. The M1 Abrams for one. The Iowa class battleships weren't the biggest, bestest or most heavily armed. But they lasted a long time after others that were. Hell even the B52 bomber wasn't supposed to be long for this world. Just a temporary measure until supersonic heavy bombers came. Those supersonic heavy bombers never came. While the B52 still lives on. The M16 wasn't intended to be a standard issue weapon either. But it's simplicity made it great for that role as time would tell. There's lots of examples of similar.
@edwardscott3262 the problem is that stop-gaps because of their simplicity and reliability become the yardstick by which the real deal ends up being measured against by those who hold the purse strings.
Never found the M47 boring, it's one of my favorites, and one of the rare tanks I actually have a physical model of. It along with m48 are also the tank you will often see in-front of American legion posts or on display here in Michigan, so I was always fond of them driving by as a kid. I tend to be more fascinated by eastern block tanks, but I may go as far as to say the M47 is my favorite western tank of the cold war.. it has sleeker lines than the later 48
My faves from the US are the M47, and the M60. M103 is up there too just because it’s a proper heavy tank and the US never really did that at any other point.
My grandfather has quite the history with this vehicle (belgian army). 1. It was the first tank he had to drive on an antar tank transporter...and he flipped it on his first try. 2. He was ferrying m47 tanks over a street in hechtelt when he heard a loud bang. A citroen 2cv broke trough the MP barricade and collided with his tank on the sides. A young couple died, but dozens of empty bottles of beer were found and the driver was likely drunk
Was he professional soldier or conscripted? I remember my dad talking about driving an AMX13 as a conscripted soldier. Only the tank commander was a professional officer.
@@T.efpunkt Oh yeah..There were photos taken back then but i was never able to find them. And since my grandfather passed away i cant ask him when it happened and such.
We still had a few M48A5's in service at Ft. Knox in the 70's. National Guard units had the M48A5's. There use to be an M47 at the gate coming into Ft Knox.
My Dad did AIT at Knox in '79. While units had switched to M60s and the production prototype M1s were being trialed, he did most of his maintenance training on M48s.
@@nicholasmckenzie1075 I don't recall what gate it's at either but it's the one you go out of to go to The Black Angus steak house if it's still there.
I have a kind of "technical question" if you don't mind: I read on a forum that a track from an M48 break on a base and it was fixed using M47 patton treads but the thing its that the M47 treads are the same of the M 26 pershing or more or less the same..... My question is: That can be done? Also I bought metal treads for a scale model (M 47) but a friend gave me an M 48, aaaand I don't know if they can fit or not. I assume that if the M 48 could use M 47 treads the scale model should do the same also!. Thanks for everything! And have a nice rest of your day.
@@bocktordaytona5656 The M26, M46, and the M47 all share the same track dimensions. The M48s and M60s share the same track, but because they have slightly different dimensions from earlier tanks, those tracks are incompatible with earlier tanks. Fun fact, though the tracks are incompatible, the roadwheel hubs and bearings for the M47 are the same as those for the M48s and M60s.
Used to see these at the mall in eastern Pennsylvania back in the early 80’s. First tank I ever climbed into as a kid. I guess it was the Army National Guard that used to put these out on public display. Pretty common back in those days.
Remember the 90's and one of these or its brother Ran a MUCK in San Deigo Ca, stole it from a base. I just missed it, got home from work when it came on the news.
It's only boring if you don't like the coolest looking turret design the U.S. ever came out with. The M47 is another one of those underrated and undervalued tanks.
@@bocktordaytona5656 I mean 1 inch or 25mm of armor wasn't that bad for the M41, it could stop anything 12.7mm and below while also being resistant to 14.5mm guns unless they make a solid hit on a flat spot
Under rated? It was objectively a terrible tank. The Indians discovered that if you just hit it, the shock of the hit would often rupture the internal hydraulic lines. No pens needed. The hydraulic fluid would ignite and you could scrap one more M47 or M48. Problem wasn't fixed until well into M60A1 production.
Yes! Spent all my cash on these 1:48 models early mid 70's air, and armor! Still have a few looking back, I was Good! REAL GOOD! Got no patience for it now? 76 I built my first kit muzzle loader white steel to timed cylinder and salts blued. Rode my beach cruiser to make the money with a paper route and get my Fix!
My pops join the army in 1967. He went to Vietnam as part of the 1st ID. For some reason ne decided he'd rather be in a tank and the fastest way for him to do that was to transfer to the 101st combat engineer battalion. He first tank was a M48 with dozer blade and a short barrel called a CEV. His career went from the M48 all the way through to the M1A1 Abrams tank. The M60A3 was his favorite tank of all time!
Such great little details like Arnie serving in one and buying it at a later date. Cheers guys for the M47 chat.🍻🇦🇺 Just joined the channel to help in a small way.
To me, the amazing thing is that it was a stopgap, in production for less than 2 1/2 years to use 'just in case', and they still made 8,500 of them. That's sort of crazy.
Back then they used to crank out stuff fast, 2-3 years of production was thousands of vehicles, not like today where 10 years of production can be less than 500 vehicles.
The Korean War scared the US to replace obsolete Sherman’s and M-26 etc., and the war was the case that allowed the Navy to receiving funding for the Forrestal Class carriers when no carriers were authorized after WW2 (Oriskany). We then rearmed Germany and Japan because the US just didn’t have the standing army to oppose a million drafted Soviet soldiers in Europe, and at its peak, 20,000 Soviet tanks stationed there.
Less workforce and more complicated machines these days. Plus it was the cold war countries were just a few steps away from a war time economy. It wasn't until the USSR dissolved that military spending nose dived so bad and only started picking up again. Companies just hire enough people and stretch their orders over the years to keep factories running unlike a war economy where massive orders need to be done in a few years. And the addition, Integration and installation of more advanced sensors, communucations, and optics complicate manufacturing.
@@gagenater something really crazy is aviation production, in 6 years nearly 2,300 F100 super saber jets were manufactured. Nearly 1 per day which is actually really amazing.
I've long been a fan of the forgotten M-47. It often posed as a Tiger in 1960s war movies and TV shows, but I liked it for its appearance, particularly the shape of its turret. It was my second favorite tank after the M41 Walker Bulldog.
They were used in the Battle of the Bulge movie from 1965 as Tigers II, indeed. But the Patton movie from 1970 used M-48 for german tanks and Walker Bulldog light tanks for the US ones, all loans from the spanish army.
While I was in the Air Force, back in the early 80's, I was assigned to the 1st SOW Hurlburt Field Fla. Which is across town from Eglin AFB. While overthere one day, I saw a mass of M-47 Pattons sitting around? Odd for a Air Force base. I later learned that they were used as range targets for aircraft ground attack training. What was even cooler, some of the runners were remote controlled. That way the pilots could practice hitting a moving target.
Prior to the fall of the Shah, Iran got a bunch of M47 tanks. These are still in service with the current armed forces of Iran and they have done all manner of unholy modifications to them, creating some truly bizarre upgrades with names like Sabalan and Tiam.
It would be very interesting to know the changes made to make the Sabalan; when the picture of it presented as in modern service was shown, I had the thought that it would be quite likely unique for this tank museum to rebuild this or an M47 to that standard for its Tank Festival and display! Much in the way that this museum has several versions of the T-62, though sadly it only displays one. If only one can be displayed, choosing between an original, a most-common, or a particularly famous version must be a difficult choice!
@@germen343 Hahah! He actually tried racing it and seeing how fast it could go and crashed through a building with it when he was a young man training in the Austrian army. He mentions the event fairly early on in his autobiography, Total Recall.
No mention of Portugal use of the tank whatsoever. Portugal received 160 of these tanks and was one of the first European countries to receive them. 50 were delivered in early 1953. Because of these tanks, Portugal had one of the most advanced tank fleets in Europe until other countries, like Germany and France, received far superior numbers of M47 Patton tanks. The Portuguese M47 Patton was the only one to never receive any upgrades and remained in service until the mid-1980s.
I miss David Fletcher very much, but Chris Copson is just wonderful. He has a very understated style that suits the descriptions of these wonderful machines perfectly.
Some of the last US Army use of M47s were for driver training as it had the extra position for the bow gunner, which could be used by a driver trainee. This was in the 70s or early 80s.
I suggest you guys get in touch with the Belgian WHI. They have a lot of experience with the M-47 and its drivetrain. Maybe they some spare parts lying around out of old BA stocks.
Great video format! I got a good laugh out of "I can't wait!" - for some, there is an empowering feeling in restoring old machines; particularly military vehicles
And that AV-1790 engine, upgraded, converted to diesel, and supercharged, is still in active service in the US as the AVDS-1790 engine in the M88 series of vehicles, and in various M60 tanks around the world.
Well done. As you stated, U.S. history barely gives this tank a passing glance. I had no idea there were so many built and serving in other countries. (It helps to know it was well liked by them as well🤠)
It gets me that this "short-lived" design had 8500 built and ended up serving in so many countries lasting into the 21st century. We really could build them back in the day.
You forgot to mention its service in Panzer Battalians at the Battle of Bulge. It fought valiantly against American M24 Chaffee tanks which were no match (the 90mm guns on the M47 Tigers turning at least one into a Chaffee convertible). However, many M47 Tiger IIs were destroyed when the Allies discovered that fuel drums did great damage against their lower front gracious plate. Colonel Hestler met his end in one of these 😔
German use of M-47s is often misinterpreted or misrepresented. Did you not notice the desert terrain? That is because the Battle of the Bulge was actually fought in Texas during the American Civil War. Yes, they had tanks back then. A famous Confederate tank designer was a Dr. Loveless, who later met his end at the hands of a Secret Service agent.
Lots of them ended as targets on west-german firing -ranges.Main disadvantage was the extreme high fuel consumption and the short range. T54/55 had more fuel-effective diesel-engines.
That there is a diesel version of the same engine still in current U.S. service and commonly used globally, I have to wonder how many M47 tanks in service with the numerous users were converted!
@@davidgoodnow269 West-Germany never undertook any modernisations of the M47 because it was decommissioned quite early in 1967, serial-production of Leopard 1 began in 1965. The diesel version was developed for M60? or upgrading M48?. Do you know something of upgrades of the M47 with 105mm guns in other Nato-countries? Would be interesting to learn somethink about the service history of the M47 in Turkey,Greece, Portugal,etc.
@@hansulrichboning8551 The M-47 is quite new to me, but I have been picking up a lot in the comments on this video and checking those statements. The engine is currently in use in the M-88 Armor Recovery Vehicle, and used worldwide in a large range of military vehicles and construction equipment.
As a kid i thought battle of the bulge was a great film but having a Dinky toy king tiger and M48 i knew i was being decieved. My mum still has the letter i wrote to my dad while he was away in the Navy. I qas very excited about seeing Kojak in Battle of the Blunge😂
What paint is it going to have? If we support the project can we get a vote in what colours it receives? As its not a super historic vehicle I don't see why it shouldn't be painted up as any nation which used M47 to emphasise the international importance of the tank!
I've never gotten those vibs. I always like the Walker Bulldog, and the m47 is just an updated version of that. Plus it has M60 vibes, and that's the sexiest tank ever designed. BTW its sort of a distortion to refer to the M60 as a Patton tank. Model manufacturers called it that. Reporters called it that. The crews did not call it a Patton - they called them M60s or sometimes 60s. I didn't hear Patton once in the four years I served in the cav with them. And I was a hex-n-counter wargamer and model builder at the time, so knew all nerdy stuff like. I think I was the only one who knew that civilians called it a Patton.
You didn't listen to the video then, they said in the video the lineage of the design, the M41 walker bulldog was an update of the Chaffey which iirc didn't leader onto anything. The m47 was built on the m46 Patton which was an upgrade of the Pershing not the walker
For some strange reason, these and the up gunned M47M variants were not exported to the ARVN units in Vietnam when they really needed tanks to help blunt PAVN attacks.
The logic behind that would probably be explained away as " it would be harder for ARVN crews to train on them " but that's pretty negligent if you ask me.
@@jamesworth4573 Sheesh! If any US ally needed armored vehicles it would have been South Vietnam. They did get some M41 Walker Bulldog light tanks late and did well enough with them, but they needed medium tanks from 1966/67.
@@AnthonyEvelyn Due to being used in some early coups, SVN armored units were tightly controlled with politically reliable commanders. Ky had a unit with M24s at Tan Son Nhut as an anti coup deterrent. They received M48s in the early 70s.
In much from the 1960's warmovies "Battle of the Bulge" / Anzio" / The Devil's brigade, they use this tank for the German King tiger. That's why we like the Patton tanks.
"I Think?" I have pics of my 4x4 RV pulling an original 66 Johnson Mil Surp trailer, while posed in front of these with my dogs pocking their heads out in the open air, at the Patton Museum on the Cherico summit So Cal Mojave next to one of our favorite 2nd amend training spots, just got back home from keeping history alive with stonners and capper muzzle loaders in same spot. Keep History Alive! Thanks! Greatest Generation and their Kids! Gave US about 75 plus years of world peace. RIP I Miss Y'all, YA'LL! All!
I remember my own lack of understanding when i entered our local Plasticmodel Shop in the mid 80s (i think 84 or 85). My father loved to watch warmovies and Werstern. I remember my confusion when i saw the Modelkits showing some tanks i never saw before as Tigers or Panzers...while the Tanks i always saw as typical German (M47, Chaffee, Walker Bulldog) were all US tanks. The owner of our local store then explained the tanks to me, loved to spend my time and pocket money in this shop. Thanks for this memory.
I've seen these Pattons up close at the Patton museum off of hwy 10 and Chiriaco rd. I had fun being able to identify the earlier models with that extra little wheel at the rear of the tank.
Interesting, do you have any more information on that? I wonder How many times that happened, and if they were using a discarding Sabot round at the time.
It happened twice on the 14th of August 1974 when the Turks launched the second phase of the invasion. They attacked on two fronts with roughly 45,000 troops and 300 tanks. The front line on the east front stretched from just north of the old Nicosia to Famagusta road to the base of the Pentadaktylos mountain range where at least 4 6-pounders were set on a small rise. When the air and artillery bombardment ended and the tanks advanced one single gun crew was able to take out 2 M47, with both exploding, one M113 which too burst into flames with some of its infantry making it out while burning and one M113 immobilised with a damaged track. The gun was abandoned when the rest of the advancing tanks reached their position and started firing with their coaxial machine guns. All of the crew, except one who was decapitated after getting shot on the head, survived and successfully fell back. The ammunition was from old WW2 stocks probably from Greece or Egypt. I asked the crew leader about what kind of ammunition they were using but he could not remember. What he does remember is that he was aiming between the hull and the turret.
I'm not saying you're lying, but if they shot through the turret ring they didn't shoot through the front plate. I have serious trouble believing a 6 pndr went through that much steel unless they were hit flat instead of sloped.
In the '70s I saw depo packs of these in POMCUS stocks. You guys could have saved yourselves a lot of work if you could have gotten one of those. Who knows, there are probably still some of those hidden away in the old FRG.
Thank you. Good video and project. Please do an Aus Armour type video series of this restoration. Should help you sell a few books, toys, mugs, tee shirts, etcetera. A documentary photo-book would also be a nice thing to see.
A good entry on a vehicle that was more important as a stepping stone, even if was not known for its combat performance in the armed forces of the country that built it. I get the impression that either the M47 or its' predecessor that played the part of German tanks in a sate of 50s' and 60s' WW2 movies when studios could not get any more realistic than painting German insignia on U.S. vehicles. Looking forward to seeing footage of it running next year (fingers crossed!)
The museums m47 was in good nick inside when we took out the power pack. The only thing that wasn't working was the donkey engine, which is in bits somewhere
Please consider doing a video wherein you introduce various tank aiming and rangefinding schemes and how they work. I really wanted to know how that stereoscopic rangefinder worked.
7:36 - wow - never saw that steering mechanism in my time in the Army - I only saw the tiller system, two bars and pull back on the right to brake the right track, etc - or a steering wheel - in the US Army 1985 to 1990 -
The M-47 was a good tank, but I think the British Centurion had the edge in most categories that mattered. Modernization and upgrading for the M-47 was limited, but the Centurion design lent itself more to upgrades, especially in the main gun. As they found out in Korea, the Centurion could handle steep hillsides. Centurions went head to head with M-47s in the Pakistan-India conflicts, and also in the Arab-Israeli wars, and most of the time prevailed. After the less than stellar performance of British tanks in WW2, they eventually got it right with the Centurion designed at the end of the war. The Centurion saw service in Vietnam in small numbers with the Australian small brigade-sized task-force, and was very effective in that role.
I read somewhere that the IDF(israeli defence forces) regarded the centurion even higher than the M48(IDF operated both Tanks and had direct comparison).
Some correction in regards to the bit about Italy. The Carabinieri 11th Mechanized Brigade recieved 130 M47s in 1964, however just 50 were provided to the tank battalions. The "Solo Plan" was meant to topple a future Left Wing government formed by the Socialists and/or communist (that never came) in 1964 and was organized with the approval of the then President of the Republic Antonio Segni and the then Chiefs of Staff of the Armed Forces along the secret services of Italy and the US. It was discovered in 1967, after Gen. De Lorenzo left the position of commander of the Carabinieri and became Chief of Army Staff, and after the planned operation had to take place. As a result only part of the M47 fleet in force with the Carabinieri was withdrawn, more than a dozen remained in service with the tank companies of the 11th Brigade, later changed (in the 70s) with Leopards up until the 90s
Jokes aside - the german army operated theirs with four man crews at least some of the time with no bow gun fitted and the mount covered with a tarpaulin. Likely because they where speed-building the manpower by halfing and re-growing to full strength batallions
It was the best damn looking tank, though! That counts for something! They are very popular for static displays in front of American Legion and VFW Posts.
