Mack’s TIP TURBINE Was Ahead Of Its Time

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- Credits -
“Mack R-Series tipper 2000 Tuapeka” by trucksatwork NZ
• Mack R-Series tipper 2...
“Arctic Convoy With Giant Mack Trucks” by Tim Twichell
• Arctic Convoy With Gia...
“Wheels of Progress” by American Truck Historical Society
• Wheels of Progress
“#13910 Great running Mack EM6 Tip Turbine” by Blue_cf Chris
• #13910 Great running M...
“Straight Piped Mack R Model Shifting Gears” by Wisconsin Big Rigs
• Straight Piped Mack R ...
“2020 Supra B58 Engine Teardown - First Look - Better than the 2JZ?” by PapadakisRacing
• 2020 Supra B58 Engine ...
“Mack R Series Compilation” by Wisconsin Big Rigs
• Mack R Series Compilation
“1978 mack RL 700 pullin 25 tons of wheat through mud” by SuperDutyCummins
• 1978 mack RL 700 pulli...

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13 окт 2023

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Комментарии : 133

@carlnapp4412 8 месяцев назад

The whole Maxidyne engine was way ahead of its time. That bypass to drive the intercooling fan was leading. Even details were built like a Mack Truck.

@cobaltlukather9045 8 месяцев назад

Mack had a significant impact on my dad when a dump truck they built ran him over as a kid back in the 70s. he survived, nearly lost his arm, and the whole family still ribs him almost 50 years later whenever they see an old Mack truck going around.

@ollimatik 8 месяцев назад

When I was a young teenager, I used to hang around a small trucking company... one of the trucks was a mid-70's blue Mack R600 model with this exact engine - I remember looking at the air to air cooler and trying to understand how it worked... the sound of that engine was amazing... once the engine started to load up, first the big turbo would spool up, and then shortly after the small turbo would spool up with a higher pitch whine... still gives me shivers when I think about how cool that engine sounded! Great video - thanks!

@Piqus3 8 месяцев назад

Providing cool air to an intercooler using a bleed turbo air seems very effective and somewhat auto adjusting, depending on the engine load. I had no idea about this solution, pretty impressive. Thank you VisioRacer for another great vid. 👌👍

@metrichotrods1763 8 месяцев назад

I helped my grandfather twist a camshaft into the v8 maxidyne in the early 90s. By then it was a million mile engine from the 60s.

@Joe_Bidens_hair_fetish 8 месяцев назад

Please do more videos on old workhorse trucks and their powerplants!! I love 60's to 80's North American and Soviet/Eastern European trucks and the different routes they took to power them

@user-xg8yy7yl1d 8 месяцев назад

If you want some unique 60s to 80s North American trucks the British Columbia "supersize" logging trucks like Pacifics and even more obscure one offs might be of interest in looking at.

@Joe_Bidens_hair_fetish 8 месяцев назад

@@user-xg8yy7yl1d Yupp I'm very familiar with Pacific, The p16 is one of my favorite trucks. Idk if you knew this but the guys that started Pacific used to work for Hayes Manufacturing and made Hayes trucks and those were some bada$$ trucks!

@briansmith8385 8 месяцев назад

Decades ago Mack and other truck manufactures used air-to-air inter-coolers with it being placed in front of the radiator. Thanks for video explaining the even earlier Mack technology.

@michaelguerin56 8 месяцев назад

Thank you. The R series Macks do have a good look and a strong working history. We actually had an R series tipper in our Engineering Squadron for a while. Nice to see several NZ shots,including the first clip. I suspect that the second clip came from a documentary about the construction of the Cold War DEW system in Northern Canada and Alaska.

@realvanman1 8 месяцев назад

What a cool (no pun intended) concept! I had no idea that these existed, but I REALLY miss the days when trucks sounded like these, and of course the beloved Detroits.

@paulfasolo8552 8 месяцев назад

I remember when my dad worked there from the early to late 60's. He ran the design team that came up with the maxidyne engine.

@ollimatik 8 месяцев назад

Wow... really cool that your dad worked there!

@matthewshambler2644 8 месяцев назад

That’s pretty impressive technology for so many years ago.. true engineering! Unfortunately very few Mack’s in my country but once in a blue moon I see one that looks like it’s lived a very hard life, still pulling like a train!

@movinmetal2596 8 месяцев назад

The R-series (especially offset cabs) is the quintessential work truck in my eyes. The mammoth radiator screamed heavy-duty compared to W900s or narrow-nose Petes

@CharredSteak 8 месяцев назад

Yeah one of the most unfortunate falls in the trucking industry. Macks were exactly that up until Volvo watered everything down. Very similar to what happened to western star under Daimler

@_..-.._..-.._ 8 месяцев назад

@@CharredSteakremember when Daimler tried to sell badge engineered Dodge Ram 4500 & 5500 trucks at Western Star dealerships under the Sterling name? That was a weird move.

@CharredSteak 8 месяцев назад

@@_..-.._..-.._ Yeah all of the sterling rebadges were weird, especially when the brand itself wasn't all that good. Shame what they turned the Ford L series into as well

@goosenotmaverick1156 8 месяцев назад

@@_..-.._..-.._you couldn't be more right, that was weird. Don't see too many of them floating around these days though

@Joe_Bidens_hair_fetish 8 месяцев назад

Those were badass. The best offset cab work trucks in my opinion will probably always be the old Pacific logging trucks like the p16

@aaroncone6778 8 месяцев назад

Love those Tip Turbines! I've had the pleasure of running one, at a factory 350hp (that was turned up about 6%), coupled to a Maxitorque 12spd. Running 100-120k daily is not a problem, & still gave me almost 6mpg average. Love my Macks!

@deborahchesser7375 2 месяца назад

They are built to be abused, like you said, 100-120k daily no problem. And off-road nothing held up like a Mack especially the DM’s I hauled coal in the SE Ky mountains and went places you wouldn’t think a dirt bike could go. 🐾✌️🇺🇸

@_..-.._..-.._ 8 месяцев назад

Awesome!!! Thanks for making this!!! I suggested a few weeks ago. I recently saw one in the scrapyard and had to look at it for 15 minutes to figure out what it was and how it worked. The one I saw was made by Garrett.

@catdaddy3728 8 месяцев назад

They made a cool sound! Mack has always been an innovator in the truck world. Hi torque at low rpms, air to air intercooling, cab and sleeper as one unit, air ride cab..

@dragonheart4322 8 месяцев назад

What an era for diesel tech. And seeing this, shows how much trickle down tech from (and before) WW2 was making its way into the civilian world. Turbocharging and intercooling/aftercooling tech evolved so rapidly back then.

@BoostWorx 8 месяцев назад

Visio for the win again I love the combination of information and footage. This channel is brilliant

@fidelcatsro6948 8 месяцев назад

my cat loves u too! 🐱♥️♥️♥️

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

Thank you 🫡

@pinkyellowblue007 8 месяцев назад

I love old trucks, old school tech and all kinds of engineering, your videos always have something interesting

@jamesfinn4547 8 месяцев назад

That explains the duel pipes from the airbox I have wondered about before on the old macks

@aukeboy1 8 месяцев назад

What a lot of people forget, that the ENDT-675 was a shared design with the Scania D11 and DS11, and the ENDT 865 was the same as the Scania DS14, Scania and Mack did work together in that time, and shared engine design, in 1962 Scania took the ENDT 864, and did a redesign of it, Mack did the same thing and in 1969 when Scania released the DS14 , Mack released the ENDT 865, both bassicly being the same, with some minnor tweaks Scania also build the END()T 475 and ET(Z)477, those where shipped from Sweden to the US and put in to Mack trucks.

@mrspandel5737 8 месяцев назад

True, but the Scania and Mack engines do differ quite a bit, especially the V8. The cylinder heads are a completely different design for one, Scania with an individual head for each cylinder and its iconic V-shaped Valve covers, while on the Mack 864 every two cylinders share a head. Effectively the only thing that was truly the same were the engine blocks. Mercedes-Benz and MAN in germany had a similar arrangement with shared engine blocks but unique cylinder heads and fuel system. At M-B this would become the OM400 series of V6, V8, V10 and even a V12 for special applications used from ~1970 to 2010 ish. There was interestingly also an Inline 6 built on the same architecture for some models. MAN didn't bother with the V6 and V8, thus only used the Inline 6 but with Turbocharging years before MB adopted it and the V10 that produced up to 660hp in its final evolution in the TGA series.

@allenbeck7321 8 месяцев назад

Awesome!! I lived it all!! Thanks for cleanin out the cobwebs!!

@iBackshift 8 месяцев назад

In the late 50's, Scania pitched an offer to Mack for an intellectual property trade, (We Scania like your Mack bus, but your Mack engine does not have enough power to get out of its own way.) Lets trade "Mack bus" to Sweden for "Scania cylinder head", (We'll build you a cylinder head that will make your engine pull) which Scania built the first 15000 thermodyne cylinder heads for mack. There are Macks [you can see them at ATHS rallies] that have the Scania-Vabis cast into the thermodyne cylinder head. The 1100 rpms that a small little Mack 350 and 400 hp engine can pull at, is because Scania designed the cylinder head to pull like that. [I used to drive an R600 w/a 350hp and was taught to pull it on the hills at 1100] Scania put to the drawing board the first V-8 in 1964 and entered into service in 1969, the 14liter 350hp. Scania designed the V-8 engine and did an "Resource" property trade with Mack. Mack had the casting facility and cast the two blocks, one Scania and other Mack. One was standard (mack), one was metric (Scania).

@HOWNDOG66 8 месяцев назад

Nothing sounds like a Mack. Add the air start and it’s the beginning of a symphony

@freedomfighter5095 8 месяцев назад

Love the content @VISIORACER. I would definitely watch long format as well. Thank you for the videos

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

Thank you!

@wazza33racer 8 месяцев назад

Te tip turbine "Coolpower" equipped Macks are easy to spot, they always had twin air cleaner intakes. One air cleaner supplied clean air to the tip turbine, the other supplied the engine air intake. The issue that happened frequently, was that if the engine coolant was not correctly maintained with anti-electrolysis additive.....the coolant passage would eat through the large and expensive air-to-air intercooler housing. On the road the 6 cylinder performed very well compared to contemporaries. However by the late 1980's, Mack released the front chassis mounted, air to air cooled 350hp engine with the 4 valve head.....and did away with the tip turbine concept. The 350hp engine was really strong, super reliable and could easily keep up with a 400hp Cummins or the 400hp V8 Mack engine of the same era, and was regarded as a "freak" engine for how good it was, even in high load factor applications like 80 ton road trains.

@johnhughes2043 8 месяцев назад

Mack was always an innovator. The high torque rise low rpm setup gave great pulling power and excellent fuel economy along with long life. My Dad was a pure Mack guy and when I was looking to buy my first truck he said “ buy a Mack - if you can’t make a living with it, find something else to do”!! The tip turbo was great until one came apart and fragged everything under the hood or the cab. A buddy had one come apart on a 350hp Cruiseliner with his girlfriend in the right seat - she didn’t get hurt but was NOT happy with that Bulldog!

@c.a.r.s.carsandrelevantspecs 8 месяцев назад

I like how you included the power and torque curves for these engine! They were an excellent addition to this interesting and informative video.

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

I enjoy using the vintage and original pictures and documentation if it exists!

@c.a.r.s.carsandrelevantspecs 8 месяцев назад

@@VisioRacer Very nice! I appreciate your excellent work! 🙂👍

@mrspandel5737 8 месяцев назад

The Torque curves were what set the Maxidyne apart from other engines of its time. 1100ft-lbs/1400Nm from an 11L I6 was impressive stuff in the early 1970s.

@c.a.r.s.carsandrelevantspecs 8 месяцев назад

@@mrspandel5737 Very nice! 🙂👍

@lozl 8 месяцев назад

Thats really interesting. I've never heard of this intercoolering solution before. Fantastic video. Jeep them coming

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

Thanks!

@michaelharrison1093 8 месяцев назад

A video about Mack trucks and you don't mention the unique compressed air starter. Such an iconic unique sound

@paradiselost9946 8 месяцев назад

he didnt mention the significance of the dog on the front either... or more importantly, why only ONE was GOLD. which is particularly ironic when the video is about the mack ENGINE...

@hughjass1044 8 месяцев назад

Drove several Macks of that era and loved 'em! Wish they still made trucks like that. Wonder in the guy at the end made it out OK.

@descargaelbano 8 месяцев назад

I grew up working on these in the late 80s. Great trucks!

@lucmarchand617 7 месяцев назад

I work in calgary alberta 1989 at inland cement we have one biggest fleet mack truck in town.mack ho pick up maxi dyne engine over 1 millions miles and give us new one in return.the v-8 on superliner they take some photo and photocopier of maintenance on truck and engine.mack engine was tough hard to beat over other brand.😊

@MachineintheMonkey 8 месяцев назад

I operated a 1978, 65 ton Kato hydraulic crane mounted on a tri steer Mack chassis in Australia. It would flatstick the boom fully extended (36 metres)!…it’s also the reason that I’m half deaf because it was bloody loud!

@edmundsmith7199 8 месяцев назад

The 285 Maxidyne punched above its weight. The low end torque was impressive

@andrewking4885 8 месяцев назад

I've seen a picture of an R Model with that engine pulling 3 three livestock trailers in Australia.

@JVPTH3MVP 8 месяцев назад

An absolutely fantastic video! I gotta give kudos especially for including details on the tip turbine itself as it's not to easy to come across information on it like the number of blades on the turbine.

@michaelharrison1093 8 месяцев назад

Nice opening scene in New Zealand! Tuapeka Transport based in Lawrence near Dunedin at the bottom of the South Island.

@BigKandRtv 8 месяцев назад

These videos are excellent. Resource library quality.

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

Thank you!

@BurchellAtTheWharf 8 месяцев назад

Ohh, Mack's sounds so good, would love to have one in my boat 😮😊

@basiltaylor8910 8 месяцев назад

Wow the Bulldog Company built a two stage turbo diesel that worked with a novel bleed air cooling system for the intercooler. The 'R' Series Bulldog is my all time favorate Mack, it is soo cool and so right, not keen on the trilex wheels.

@jhonsiders6077 8 месяцев назад

A fun fact that was what the R model tractor was running in the movie the road warrior.

@BuzzinVideography 8 месяцев назад

I still have 6 Mack trucks from their Golden days (two e9 Superliner)

@robwhite3241 8 месяцев назад

What Volvo did to Mack was criminal. Wish I could still get a real mack today!

@100pyatt 8 месяцев назад

It's still Mack and built at Mack in Hagerstown MD. The crime is what they did to the cheap azz body they're putting on the trucks now .. total cheap plastic junk

@robwhite3241 8 месяцев назад

@@100pyatt The last true Mack engine ended production in 2007. Most of the body and engine components are now sourced only from Volvo.

@Tom-Lahaye 8 месяцев назад

A real clever solution this turbine. Macks were the real earth movers and construction trucks. in the 1970s and '80s it was the only US truck you would see doing proper work in the Netherlands, Pete's and Internationals you would only ever see at truck shows as they had their visual appeal but were somewhat outdated compared with the European trucks of the time and didn't fit well into the length restriction rules we have here limiting the length of the whole combination and thus limiting the size of the cargo hold when there is such a long tractor unit on the front. The Macks as rugged as they were operated well as dump trucks and cement mixers, where due to the density of the load the length restriction played no role.

@wernerschulte6245 8 месяцев назад

Amazing, how you get to know those details. Thank you ! I thought, I did know something about piston engines. However, again and again I notice that are many things I did not know.

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

Thanks!

@Commander-McBragg 8 месяцев назад

You cover everything, my friend! Great job

@paradiselost9946 8 месяцев назад

except for one thing...why did i only see one GOLD dog in this video? it has a particular significance, considering the content...

@failranch9542 8 месяцев назад

I learned very early in life (as a child in the 1970’s) that peak hp was not the be all end all performance metric. My dad explained to me how his CB buddy’s 237 hp Maxidyne could give his 318 hp Detroit a run for its money because the Mack had more of this thing called torque.

@dougthompson1598 8 месяцев назад

Horsepower is how fast you can hit the wall, torque is how far you can move the wall.

@dennisyoung4631 8 месяцев назад

“They call me Mack, with a face like a truck, I am unstoppable, so don’t press your luck…”

@johnelliott7375 8 месяцев назад

Good morning and I have been patiently waiting for you to get a video ready! Great day to you and enjoy it the best you can Video was great as always.

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

Thanks!

@jamesgeorge4874 8 месяцев назад

They had the cool bulldog on the front too. Great vid.

@realvanman1 8 месяцев назад

I'm left hanging! I wanted to see if that guy at the end made it out! It looked he was going to, but it would have been cool to see him make it. ;)

@Lawdagreat 8 месяцев назад

He did.. and what a sight it was good driver behind the wheel too. The excitement of watching that Mack bog down to almost a stall, then slowly the turbo lights and she wipes her feet and walks right on through!!!!

@joseveintegenario-nisu1928 8 месяцев назад

A too common forgot is for cooling fins, in Air Cooled engines, or for the Radiator, in Liquid Cooled engines, Blown Air works much better than Aspirated Air, the usual approach with a belt driven fan. Electric fans in front of Radiator, thermostat controlled, became standard in many cars. But an electric engine costs money. With a hole in center of Radiator, leaving room for a shaft moving the fan in front of Radiator, you could probably have improvements in engine cooling, and a lower power taken from engine by the fan. A fan turning behind Radiator works on hot, less dense air, thus its efficiency is lower; a fan in front of Radiator has advantages, and is not necessarily more costly or failure prone. Someone willing to test this?

@cyclonicblade 8 месяцев назад

Drove several 300+ trucks. Even with only a 5 spd they could haul over 180k pounds at highway speeds.

@deborahchesser7375 8 месяцев назад

Overbuilt and underrated, that’s Mack. I hauled a lot of coal in an ol DM 237

@mattt198654321 8 месяцев назад

I drool over an old R-model mack....

@gmarshall1026 8 месяцев назад

Another one of your great work

@edmcelhone4501 Месяц назад

the very best truck hands down best dump truck in the world if u could remake that truck u could outsell everybody

@TheSlowDude 8 месяцев назад

Thanks again

@DumisaniMafara 8 месяцев назад

Thank you

@mattmorrison6958 8 месяцев назад

Very clever!

@WilliamHollinger2019 8 месяцев назад

I do see some of them in farming and a well drilling company still have theirs.

@middleclassthrash 8 месяцев назад

I love this channel.

@BeamerTheFox 8 месяцев назад

i learned how to drive a manual transmission in a 85' Mack R-Model with a maxidyne an it had a 13 speed, i drove the truck at the age of 14 from my father wanting me to be able to help him with his work so i had to learn to drive a truck, an that was the truck i got to learn on.

@davidnazario6646 Месяц назад

Mack Attack!😎👍

@michaelvrooman5681 8 месяцев назад

Beats the heck out of Cummins low flow cooling systems they used for a few years to increase horsepower..

@AntonRombouts1990 8 месяцев назад

DAF already had an intercooler in 1972, DAF DKS engine

@TheOldMachines 8 месяцев назад

R model macks are the "truck" we all imagine in our heads. Legendary trucks, pure work horses

@DannyMostarac 8 месяцев назад

Nice mack

@fidelcatsro6948 8 месяцев назад

Tesla electric trucks left the chat...

@paradiselost9946 8 месяцев назад

left? it never even figured out how to register, let alone log in.

@abramfehr3667 8 месяцев назад

I’ve driven one but can’t say anything nice about them.the one thing they could do is leak oil lol.dt466 is actually worth talking about

@Quebecer_Powerstroke 8 месяцев назад

I love you

@fidelcatsro6948 8 месяцев назад

my cat loves u too! 🐱♥️♥️♥️

@timkis64 8 месяцев назад

they would run forever.they didnt have enough power to harm themselves.i drove a 70 f model.237 5 speed.with a 44k lb load in the trailer id climb mountains on the interstate at 15 to 20 mph.i was actually a road hazzard to trucks with 290 cummins of the time.i call BS on macks claims.

@salmonaco007 8 месяцев назад

Mack has not been the same since Renault Véhicules Industriels acquired them

@jpwheel8999 8 месяцев назад

Mack

@I_Dont_Answer_Questions 8 месяцев назад

1:49 2:47 Those graphs are impossible.

@redmesa2975 8 месяцев назад

It was an ingenuous design. But it was still a turd for pulling power. Due to its 8 speed transmission. Mack had triple countershaft transmissions, very beefy though. They also had air shift reverse.

@frontagulus 8 месяцев назад

I wouldn't say it was ahead of its time - what does that even mean? It was just a technology used for a few years and then dropped. Used to drive R models with these engines, it was a good idea but a regular intercooler in front of the radiator is better due to no moving parts. Quieter too without the tip turbine noise

@robwhite3241 8 месяцев назад

Cummins or Cat didn't have any sort of air to air cooling until 10 years after Mack so I'd say it was ahead of it's time. It does seem over complicated but maybe they had some sort of marine use in mind.

@yvescote9893 8 месяцев назад

Oh wow I'm the first to comment. Love your videos buddy keep up the work

@VisioRacer 8 месяцев назад

My pleasure, thanks!

@aquilaaudax6033 8 месяцев назад

✋🏼🇦🇺👍🏼

@100pyatt 8 месяцев назад

Mack still builds the best truck engines on the market, nobody comes close and Cummins is about a joke anymore with the X-15 and older ISX poorly machined trash blocks

@thermidorlevrai65 4 месяца назад

newer mack are just volvo

@gilbertosanchez4023 Месяц назад

Save iterculler frio aire frio motor cojesmas pinche estspor probsdo iterculersorpedredete turbo alimetacsvallajes

@gavendb 8 месяцев назад

firtst!

@fidelcatsro6948 8 месяцев назад

congratulations! 🐱👍🏿

@_..-.._..-.._ 8 месяцев назад

You’re third. 🥉

@gavendb 8 месяцев назад

@@_..-.._..-.._ as with everything else

@PauloCosta-ji8kt 8 месяцев назад

This is a Scania engines 😂

@justinmartin8887 8 месяцев назад

No it’s not. Mack did import some small economy cab over Scania trucks and relabeled them. I’ve worked on a few of them over the years and there’s no remote relation between those “mutts” as people called them; and the real Mack trucks of the 80s and 90s

@PauloCosta-ji8kt 8 месяцев назад

@@justinmartin8887 do you work what? As cilindrada são iguais Os blocos são iguais A arquitetura é igual Na Europa também existe mack Renault e Scania 🤠 Por acaso já consertou um motor Scania 🤠 Traduz 🤩

@V8Lenny 8 месяцев назад

@@justinmartin8887yes it is, or sister to Scania 11 liter, same basic design.

@supersst838 8 месяцев назад

lol water to air coolers are total shit

@jeancadet5862 8 месяцев назад

Before Volvo garbage 🗑️

@justapeasant8949 8 месяцев назад

What's sad about today Mack trucks is that the biggest and most powerful ones are not made and sold in the US, but Australia 🦘 The most prominent Mack truck is also not featured in Hollywood, but Australian movie too 🇦🇺 Addendum: If anyone wonders why does it read "EARTH" on the driver's side door, it is because on the message that was sprayed in yellow paint on the trailer's tarp reeds: "VERMIN HAS INHERITED THE". Since the trailer didn't had enough space for the whole text, EARTH was sprayed on the door🌈

@PaulG.x 8 месяцев назад

That probably applies to other brands too. Australia has requirements not seen in other countries: Road Trains , extreme temperatures and unsealed roads. So they need high power outputs , upgraded cooling systems and heavy duty chassis. No company is going to supply those extras unless the market needs them.

@justapeasant8949 8 месяцев назад

@@PaulG.x Volvo Group has made Mack a second tier company so they could prop up their own VN line. Volvo trucks North America has option of D11, D12, D13 & D16 engines with 9, 10, 13 & 18 gears. The most powerful Mack that is available is with mp7 (11L) or mp8 (13L) engines. Everything else in it's range are vocational trucks (construction & refuse). Compared not only to Volvo, but competitors from PACCAR Group, Daimler Trucks North America and Navistar International is meak😢

@SootyMangabey. 8 месяцев назад

Mack had the mp10 in Titan trucks for several years. Company I worked for had one They were not too popular though.

@justapeasant8949 8 месяцев назад

@@SootyMangabey. Naturally. The logistics companies want uniformed fleet for ease of maintenance. That means: Cummins engine, Eaton-Fuller transmission, Meritor axels & suspension. Kenworth, Peterbilt, Western Star, Freightliner, International, Volvo North America, are all the same underneath the bonnet (hood in USA). Unlike Mack, it's just bodywork on the rolling chassis that is different☹

@SootyMangabey. 8 месяцев назад

@@justapeasant8949 well what really killed them off was the mp10 was only available in the Titan and the Titan was only available in heavy spec day cab, with no sleeper option. That's a very limited market. They were way over speced for 90% of the market here. No point in having a Titan when a Granite or Pinnacle with a mp8 could do the same job cheaper.