Yeah, framing is important. Holo from Spice and Wolf is naked in many episodes, but she does not look like a hentai pic. The viewer clearly understands that she is naked because she is a wild goddes of nature.
"The viewer _clearly_ understands" Spice and Wolf is a good example for framing, but I'd argue you're too confident on how well the implications of her being naked because she's close to nature reaches the viewer's head. At least many might see that reasoning, but merely as an excuse to get presented with some fan service.
+LinkEX Spice and wolf is originally a novel. If you read it, you realize Holo being naked on occasion was not a new addition by the series. And considering the lack of detail in deacribing her whils naked one can also discount the idea that the goal of the scene was to titilate.
Oh, I knew they didn't specifically add these scenes, I was merely stating what the average viewer might assume. Like you said, the source material didn't go into details, so I also think it's more likely that they intentionally tried to keep it as 'mild' as it was in the novel. It might also have been a matter of censorship, but I assume that might also be the reason why they didn't draw her with nipples, for instance. What I meant was that people might still assume that the scenes are designed to be fan service first and foremost, simply for being used to many other anime where scenes of characters being (almost) naked are always played for sex appeal.
She is, as far as I know, the only character who was ever allowed to be posted nude on /c/. This was of course 10 years ago, I don't think the same could be said today. I look at Holo the same way I look at tribal dancers shown naked on PBS. It's respectful of her upbringing and culture. It shamed her to wear clothing. She only does so reluctantly to follow Lawrence and doing so speaks volumes that couldn't have been accomplished easily otherwise. If you don't know /c/ it was the only innocent part of 4chan. Unfortunately it no longer is what it was.
Cmon guys it isn’t THAT bad it’s not like we had the original blue man group in the form of an incestuous family in the mountains. Right? *cough* *cough*
For me what makes an uncomfortable, abusive or traumatising scene acceptable in media is fundamentally the purpose of said scene followed closely by how it's shot. Does the awful depiction have meaning to the story and is it shown in a way that accurately portrays it being awful rather than arousing or comedic or any other way that should definitely not be the focus? Is the scene portraying something awful because such atrocities happen in real life and argues that it's depiction shouldn't be swept under the rug? Look at Taken, there's explicit imagery of drugged sex slaves. They aren't naked or filmed in a way that's supposed to be arousing because those scenes are important to portray the stakes. They aren't there merely to show an attractive half-baked girl. Those scenes are horrible: you are looking at a girl that was kidnapped, raped and forcibly addicted to drugs. Are you horrified or uncomfortable? You should be, because that's the point! Ditto in 'you were never really here'. SAO by contrast shows Asuna having her shirt ripped off and it's supposed to be horrifying, but they show close-ups of her breasts. Why? There's no need to do that, it doesn't make the disgusting assault any more disgusting. They literally do it to show you her breasts. It's purely for arousal which is arguably more disgusting than what they're showing on screen.
This absolutely this! Sexuality in a negative context (which should always be the case when depicting under age characters save the very rare instances of a fade to black with a similar age partner, (IE between teenagers) and even that’s sus) should always inflict a feeling of disgust in the viewer and ideally should be the kind of thing that makes even the animator uncomfortable. This is not a small thing and should not be treated as such. If the way it’s shot implies the animator did the whole scene with a hand in his pants the whole series needs a go over with a black light and the whole production staff should be placed on a watch list. Rape and sexual abuse is not funny nor is it “hot” and should never EVER be treated as such.
Yeah I guess but I’d more say don’t look at the narehate village arc because the bondrewd arc is amazing. Spoilers from now on: It really changes the perception of characters in the fact that white whistles are made of people and the fact that bondrewd is just an amazing character.
Author intent isn't always necessarily the most important thing to note in something like this, especially when it can be interpreted in so many different ways. This video is living proof of that.
I guess it's the same way when you're 14 years old and see old Greek or Roman statues for the first time in an art museum. They only depict adult men and women just standing there doing nothing, it's not sexualized (most of the time). It's natural, everyone has one or the other, but it still feels super awkward.
@@marchdarkenotp3346 Nope. I believe he's comparing the two not saying their the same. A 14 year old seeing nudity in ancient art may feel uncomfortable seeing something completely natural in an unperverted way much like MiA viewers.
@@jonkeathegamer i agree, although I have to say that as i've learned more and more about greek mythology and society the nudity in greek/roman statues has now wrapped around and is a bit creepy again... **cough** pederasty **cough**
I dunno... to me, this kind of sounds like somebody arguing that the scene from Mad Max Fury Road where we see the wives for the first time is sexual ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jx4XzDWjOVU.html like... i'm not saying there's nobody in the world who's turned on by it, but that doesn't seem to be the intent edit: that is to say, yeah, it's about making children look innocent, but that's the point. If there's somebody out there who's turned on by children being innocent, that doesn't invalidate the narrative point being made by it
Counterargument: The author of Made In Abyss is a lolicon enjoyer and the manga has sexually explicit images of characters at the end of some volumes. Your arguments work mainly because the anime was sexually toned down but you do have a point.
gotta be real here, we don't need to play into the euphemisms that pdf files place to water down the public reception to their technically legal production of CSAM. It's not "lolicon", it's child p**n, as simple as that.
I'm getting to this late, but I also wanted to point this out. The artist was previously best known for drawing loli hentai, and it's super easy to find because the style is so recognizable. I honestly thought everybody knew that, and it's crazy to me that people still try to defend it. And that's coming from someone who actually enjoyed Made In Abyss before it started to drag on too long. There's a good story under the fetishy bits, and the anime is trying its best to hide those fetishy bits.
A perfect example would be kid Goku in Dragon Ball. He’s never shy about whipping out his little tail in front of strangers. It’s always portrayed in a way that shows how he’s totally oblivious when it comes to sexuality or lack of a sense of privacy. Not in a gratuitous and perverse way. It’s all about fleshing out these characters. Key word “fleshing” not “flashing”.
I haven’t even watched it yet and hearing stuff like that is mainly the reason why. It’s just an instant deal breaker for me if an anime puts underaged characters in weird fan servicey situations. It’s jarring enough when it’s adults but kids? I can’t just passively ignore that.
@@thenerdtrovert SMH and people still try to save face by giving reasons why it isn't lewd. Shits fucked, these the type of niggas to watch hentai 24/7. It's so off-putting. Especially knowing the author is into lolicon.
I watched the anime and I just want to mention that I find the "constant sexualization" point that people bring up to be very questionable to say the least. Firstly, it just sounds not credible, because I've read so many MiA threads at this point and at all times that people claim that, the *only* sexual scenes that I have ever seen brought up are Riko's tied up scene and Reg's erection, not caring about the fact that: -They both have great narrative reasons to exist. They serve the purpose of remembering it's viewers that despite all the fucked up shit, the protagonists are just children, and as such, they're terribly unfitting for the task. It simply makes sense for these to exist, because if they didn't, it'd be easier to think the children magically go through everything because they're experts. They also serve as a break between fucked up stuff happening, and to give the viewers a chance to have a laugh at the children being children (and therefore dumb lol) -Most importantly for this whole discussion, they are *not* pornographic with their portrayal. They aim to display concepts such as children's sexuality exploration, in the most *innocent* and *non-pornographic* way (I really feel stupid just having to explain this because it's so obvious). Given this, it becomes an argument of whether portraying children sexuality is wrong, for which I strictly disagree. It's just part of the children life, and what MiA does best is display things as they are, no matter how crude they are. I repeat, it's both *not meant* and really *doesn't* sexually arouse the viewers whatsoever (aka, it's not pornographic), so I don't see the point for having to censor it. In fact, I found it pretty funny, and at Reg's scene I relate to when I was a pre-teen/early teen myself, which I found pretty cool. Also this is a side note but I find it so stunning: Riko gets empaled, reaches the point of almost dying from a severe hemorrhage, literally bleeding from her whole body, including her eyes. Her arm is so bad it looks like it's about to blow up. She vomits tons. The children constantly witness people dying. The children have to constantly kill animals and eat their meat. The children are part of a child labor society. Children are mass-abused by Bondrewd, having them turn into immortal, hollow, deformed blobs for the rest of time. Yet somehow Reg getting an erection when seeing his companion Riko is the problem. The prorities of the werstern audience are just so fascinating The manga is another case. You can have the opinion that certain pages as borderline pornographic and have a bit less of an artistic/narrative purpose, and you could make a valid case for that. I'm personally not affected by it, but I concede that I also suspect Tsukushi feels like displaying certain things times, when he probably shouldn't. I follow his Twitter (and his likes) and I haven't found any pedophilic stuff on it thus far, so I don't have a very formed opinion on the matter 🤔
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
wait, some people really get sexual vibes from made in abyss ?... I've watched the show twice and and legit never thougt about it, it's always so natural and done simple. Like that scene where he get a boner I just thought it was funny if anything, just two kids getting in an akward situation is something I think everyone can relate to... I guess maturity is a strong factor for those things, it is an adult show after all, and no adult right in their mind should get sexual vibes from children characters for so little tbh...
I am more disturbed on the gorry scene rather than supposed sexualize stuff that people say on this anime. people be like gore imagery of children = OK slight nudity of children = OH HELL NO! like seriously, what's our priority here
This is honestly such a tricky one. From what I've read about the manga it is overly sexual, but I do agree with you about the presentation in the show serving a narrative purpose. I think the truth of the matter is probably that the manga was sexualised and the anime production staff toned it down as best they could. That being said I do think there are still some ghosts of the manga left in the anime, on the subject of framing I recall prior to 'the best scene' Reg is helping Riko get undressed and we get a full shot of her back mid-undress in the style of those virgin killer sweaters. It's not blatantly in your face, I mean it's just her back after all, but I think the posing and camera angle is clearly set up for one purpose only. It's a shame that this is so prevalent in the anime which is otherwise a masterpiece. The sexual aspects aren't inherently bad but I just get the feeling when looking at how they're drawn and presented that it is intended to titillate and it seems like that is entirely the fault of the source material. I just wish they'd changed the presentation a little bit more for the anime and we'd be gucci.
Interesting rewatching MB's "Fixing Alfheim" and realising that his point about the Camera's objectification of Leafa, after Kirito realises her identity, makes that part of the arc fall into the same section of the chart as Eromanga.
Because man=good. At least, it did. The people who commissioned family portraits were like "my son is an honorable and respectable man, make him look like it!" And the painters were like "he is a literal 8 month old" and the commissioners were like "Are you saying that my son is dishonorable and of the devil?!" And the painters like "I mean I need this money so I GUESS I'll make your infant child look like a small man but WHATEVER" And then they did that with everything else because if you want a child to look noble and good you make them look masculine. At least, you used to. Now it's sort of the opposite haha
The only models that they had on hand were dudes. It's why the women (and babies) have such odd anatomy. They're referenced men and then trying to soften and adjust to what they assumed a baby or woman is like. Eventually they started to get clothed female models, and then much later nude ones, but I don't think that was going on in the 1400-1600s. Gonna need to google that for specifics.
ik it doesn't come up in the video, but this is precisely why I couldn't even get through a single episode of No Game No Life. None of the reviews I read mentioned that the little sister(?) was going to be sexualized like that for NO reason. What the fuck?!?!?! Is it really so normalized to treat children like sex objects? I already have a hard time getting through anime that sexualize adult women (ie, nearly all of them) but come on--children!? I hate finding sexualizing content when I just want to live in peace and enjoy some regular cartoon Japanese antics smh. Made in Abyss's anime adaptation is fine. I was weirded tf out by the rope thing, but other than that I really enjoyed it and I think this video does a fantastic job of explaining why it's not creepy.. What DOES bother me is that the author of the manga IS a self proclaimed fan of (insert wretching noise here) lolicon and some of the manga scenes DO in fact sexualize Riko to a disturbing degree.
Part of the reason for why people may not mention it is because they just don't remember it. A few years ago, me and 2 friends were trying to find an anime to watch (only 2 of us had actually ever seen anime besides the basics like Pokemon), and eventually ended up deciding on NGNL. Needless to say, we didn't even make it 10 minutes into the 1st episode. I think a large part of it is that people watched it back when they were like 12, and never since, so we look back upon it as some great show, like a 9 or 10/10 when if we were to rewatch it now, it would probably rank a lot lower.
Same. I started reading the manga of no game no life because it looked really cool, and then not even 2 chapters in and the little sister had a panty shot! And then some people in the fandom were shipping the siblings, saying they can't wait till she's legal so he(her BROTHER) can get with her and more. Wtf is wrong with people :(
The presentation of the little sister in NGNL really pisses me off. I love pretty much everything about the show, so I hate that for no particular reason it chooses to be so creepy with the sister. It could simply not, and make a great relatively unproblematic comedy.
@@anthonyrowan3987 Agreed. I was showing my brother MG Lyrical Nanoha (the first one) because I'd watched it like five years back, and everyone really likes that series. Turns out, the first season had multiple unnecessary fanservice shots that I had zero memory of. He completely lost interest, while I've resolved to skip certain unnecessary scenes if I show anyone else.
The problem i have is that the sexuality seems fetishised, if it were just a few moments done well it doesnt break believability but its like the show is going out of its way to show off these moments. The rope bondage, the stick incident with reg, riko wetting herself multiple times, nanachi calling reg a pervert for holding the urin soaked clothes too long. It is clear that the author is fetishising these moments for some reason.
It always kind of made sense to me in Made in Abyss since it depicts a world where everything, including adults, presents a threat to children. There's an abundance of orphans due to the dangerous nature of delving and they're kept in a kind of indentured servitude where they have to find relics and bring them back to the orphanage in order to earn their keep. So it's relevant that the adults treat the kids like they have no dignity or value.
Good point. It's probably worth noting that Habo actually *doesn't* dehumanize Reg much at all, and still feels like yanking his pants down is a perfectly reasonable way to satisfy his curiosity.
Legit Art does never contain Sex Sells. That's just objective fact. And an easy way to distinct Legit Art from Trash, also. Note and remember it, whoever reads this.
@@slevinchannel7589 legit art can contain literally everything including sex sells or even pornography however there are some media that cannot use that reason, those are trash but the other side like i said can contain everything and if you want proof that works of art can be in any shape or form there is a hentai doujin that has a dark and depressing story called metaphorphosis, that story is LITERALLY a sex sell and yet it’s a work of art good day
The manga is far more unforgivable about this whole issue. It blatantly exposes the reader to these young characters in unnecessarily sexual situations and at many points it sets up the reader to make uncomfortable assumptions about the situation they are in. Spoiler: there are multiple points in the manga (past where the anime left off) where Reg and Riko get groped and felt up by narehate. Rico gets a weird tentacle in her mouth while creepy creatures pull down her apron (nothing underneath either, just a whole lot of uncensored nipples), Reg gets a tentacle put in his pants, a narehate sniffs his penis and then puts her whole face in his pants and he clearly doesn't like it. And while they have these things happening, you get the classic hentai face expressions of drooling, sweating, and hot breath. The manga doesn't censor them like the anime does, and while Riko is basically undeveloped, there are other side characters who are still young-but are way more developed and just as exposed. Having naked child characters isn't really the issue, its the way their bodies are sexualized that is problematic. Like theres a character Rikos age with far bigger breasts and she's naked and squeezing them for zero reason. Theres a picture in the manga (maybe chapter 47) where you see Riko and Reg next to each other and both are shirtless, but Riko is in the front and her chest is...very exposed. And she's a kid-shes allowed to have that disregard, naturally. However, in the next panel, an older female character basically says "those kids don't wear a lot of clothes...I wonder what kind of relationship they have" and she drools over the idea that these two innocent, uncaring, half naked children might have a sexual relationship.
oh and dont forget a part when Reg gets torture in some sort of machine that cuts his arm and starts to suck his pee from his penis.... like, thats so fucked up. One of the reasons i dont like, and would not ever finish watching and reading MiA, is because i dont want to support an author that can think, imagine and draw such young characters experiencing situations with a huge sexual undertone. I started watching this video thinking that EP would be the first youtuber to point the awkward sexual undertones in MiA, but i was wrong. I know the series probably has an incredible fantasy plot, but there is too many weird and fucked up things about the way the story treats characters that young. And It surprises me how everyone praise it ignoring that there are things that are just... messed up. I know fiction should not be confused as real, but the excuse of "it doesn't matter if this or that happened bc its fiction we are talking about" just doesn't feels right to me, it makes me wonder if the ppl who could imagine those things and the ppl who never questioned them feel like is completely normal to think about those situations Im sorry if i dont explain myself correctly, i speak spanish so english is not my first language
My big issue is that very same innocence is what is being fetishized. doesnt matter that they dont know what sex is, theyre being drawn in these situations ANYWAYS. the artist knows exactly what hes doing.
Ok but can we stop saying his point is wrong because of the manga. The anime is very different from the manga, probably so that the viewers doesn’t feel uncomfortable and because a lot of it unnecessary. They probably changed it for a reason only for all of you to bring it up when the manga is not part of the discussion atm. When we are talking about the manga then those points are completely fine
Not really since it's still a work of fiction with little to no comparison to real life. Japan's culture is very different from the west and this series isnt meant for children as it is clearly published by an adult magazine. If you find it soo wrong then why not just ban hentai in general xD? This is pretty dumb considering it's fiction.
But the thing is this is talking a lot about framing and intent. Bringing up the manga explains those things, and gives context about how and why they were created.
@@DimT670 I have to disagree with you on that. Yeah, the scenes in the anime are there because they were in the Manga, but the intent is NOT transferred over because the anime isn't made by the author of the manga. The people who made the anime specifically went out of their way to remove as much sexual content as they could while still keeping the narrative value of those manga scenes preserved. And the few scenes that are in the anime that show Riko as nude are about as desexualised as they can be while still allowing the viewer to understand what is happening. There is absolutely nothing sexual about Riko's nudity in the ANIME, and the sexual nature of her nudity in the manga isn't relevant because it has been specifically disconnected from the anime in terms of nudity and sexuality. The intent of the author is not the intent of the animation studio.
Honestly the "controversial" scenes in Made in Abyss are so minor and unimportant, I was legitimately surprised to hear that THAT was the issue that people had with two twelve years olds surviving through hell with each other.
Wonko Hirikashi how much you wanna bet most of the complaints come from the americas, specifically the USA? because the USA tends to be extremely prudish when it comes to sexuality in media, but has no issue with hyperviolence and gore.
The EU (atleast in germany) they are also prudish about sexuality, but they are a BIT more tolerant about it - for that not so tolerant onto the gore/brutality. But i do admit, i was also surprised after hearing that that was the highest problem on the anime for some people.
+Bernard Magic Baigalia, accurate points, but MiA doesn’t present itself as something that is supposed to be fapped to. The rare and limited sexual scenes are meant for story purposes. If you think that that doesn’t make a difference, and that it is negative because people can still sexualize stuff that isn’t meant to be sexualized, then you would have to apply that principle across all media with any degree of sexuality and condemn it all.
8:45: That disconnect is one of the weird things about how our culture views media. There's a massive gray area around things like violence and psychological harm, such that you can hardly get an R rating from those without actively trying to do so. But sexuality, profanity, and other such issues? Zero tolerance. The surface-level "mature content"-sex, gore, swearing, etc-gets far more attention than the subtler issues. This, despite the fact that the subtle issues are the ones that affect people more. (Unless your kid gets nightmares from seeing someone's head explode, I guess.)
Timothy McLean but of course! theres nothing wrong with ending lives left and right, we all agree thats totally moral and okay, we all do that, right? (right?) starting a new life though, now that is a horrible thing to do, if youve ever done this what the fck is wrong with you?
Lasnight was joking but I really think that's it. Society is based on reproduction, heck, *life* is based on reproduction. Whereas death and violence is something that most of us encounter rarely. It's something we deliberately avoid confronting and fiction gives us a way to distance ourselves from it by confronting it in such an abstract, romanticized way. I absolutely will not deny that this search for catharsis can mess up kids though. Our sexualities (or the lack thereof), on the other hand, are not something we can get around, it's something that shapes our entire lives . Which means that we're going to be a lot more careful about how we explain this to children, since it will be such a big deal for them in the future. It also means that we're just going to be flatout more vulnerable or malleable to sexual things than stuff like violence. Going by the two examples from my own life, I needed to watch a movie about a child serial killer and about a brutal plane hijacking to get fear and anxiety for a few months. I needed to watch a scene where Lindsay Lohan (off-camera) is touched and touches someone to start questioning my life (I was older then, too). Which of the last two sentences made you more uncomfortable? I'm guessing it was the latter. And uh, profanity is censored because kids can hear it and repeat it with ease, unlike other taboos. I don't really agree that that's the way to crumble the cookie but I ain't no lingual psychologist. The lack of consideration for subtlety... might just be $$marketing$$, rated movies might get a lower turnout. Of course you could argue that children will not be able to fill in the gaps if it's subtle …. but I don't think that's true, humans have instincts.
I think it's really fucked up that anyone finds there's a weird disconnect between one society finding sexuality reprehensible and another is disturbed more by excessive violence. Like, fuck off, mate, those ain't even the same thing. Sexy Apples and Violent Oranges.
I'm aware that they're apples and oranges, but one can actually compare the two. One apple slice and an entire orange crate _can_ be meaningfully differentiated, and the fact that a culture is fine with large quantities of oranges but recoils at the thought of a single apple is something that can be discussed. Moreover, the sexy apple/violent orange distinction isn't even the main contrast being made. I was trying to use that to point out how the discourse around media tends to focus on surface-level details (how much gore there is, if characters get naked, etc) without looking at the subtler aspects of the work. You kinda proved my point.
It's that classic (and stupid) dichotomy where people are totally fine with two men holding guns, but two men holding hands is intolerable. Or where Steam was fine with Genocide Gas Simulator 20XX for the longest time, but anime titty was unforgivable.
Honestly I didn’t even remember those nudity scenes, the show was soo good for me with the mystery of the abyss, the world around, spectacular locations and characters that most likely I didn’t even payed enough attention to those scenes because as you said, unlike other anime MIA doesn’t focus really on those and at least have a valid reason for being there.
'Sex Sells' is a Cavemen-Mindset that has become a Religion. Simple as that - or at least IT WAS as simple as that. But not anymore. Fanservice, the Anime-Version of Sex Sells, which Humanity honestly should just stop already, is spiraling out of control. I see Manga from and for Pedophiles. Which is of course just one (extreme) level. But that's exactly the point: There's countless Levels of this, making it, i guess, easier for some to believe this isnt even a Problem. -Which is a problem, duh! So many are ok with this shit. 'Gamers' is also a nice example. A good Anime, really, but it has the weird/odd habbit to randomly insert sexualized stop-motion-pictures of the female characters. In random situations they never were in... It literally adds nothing, it just feels odd, not positive in any way. It feels like Sex Sells is inserted just for the purest sake of doing it, and it's just so odd and misplaced... Hope you get what i mean.
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
One of my personal favorite shots of Made in Abyss IS the exact scene where Riko is naked and has her arms wide, flat-out ADMIRING the destruction Reg just wrought with his Incinerator. It's absolutely terrifying. The flames and raining debris are in this exact case a symbol of overcoming adversity- hope that a new weapon will allow the two to be better equipped for their journey. And yet they are still horrible. There is NOTHING left of Reg's adversary's, and the environment itself is desecrated ruins. The destruction is absolute and universal. Reg himself acknowledges that Riko could have easily, easily been obliterated if things had turned out even slightly differently. But how does Riko respond? She SMILES. It's one of the most beautiful and terrifying displays of human nature in a still image I can think of. Riko stands unhindered and open, as "pure" and dare-I-say innocent as a human can be represented, and she's overjoyed as infernos rage around her. While Reg, the machine that actually brought forth the destruction is terrified of his own power, the very human that is nearly killed is absolutely thrilled that this ability to destroy is now within their grasp. She WANTS him to look at the destruction proudly. She WANTS to continue to harness and use that power. There's not a doubt in her mind that what just happened was an entirely good thing. And that sent chills down my spine when I first watched it. I kind of want(ed) to make the image my computer backdrop for awhile because of the symbolism behind it, but, you know... that'd be pretty hard for me to justify for a number of reasons.
This is a great analysis - it's awesome that you loved this particular scene. But I personally couldn't find any merit in this moment considering the underdevelopment and context of Riko's character. The reasons you provide are all made based on the premise that Riko's character has a strong enough foundation to feel empathy for. That wasn't the case at all for me. Handing me an info dump ("character growth") and then expecting me to care for a young, irritating girl is beyond unrealistic. Again, your analysis is excellent. I entirely agree with it being good direction. But the writers really need to step up their game.
Mm, I both agree and disagree on your interpretation of Riko's "representation", particularly in this particular scene. I'll be blunt- I don't like Riko. She's close enough to the "Head-Strong Protagonist" trope that I despise with loathing that she takes some hits in likability for me. She does earn a few points to counter this do to the fact that she openly acknowledges that she's making a terrible decision by going into the Abyss and probably throwing her entire life away as well as genuinely having prepared (though not nearly enough) for her decision. I still think she's more annoying than anything, but I can respect her to a degree. I would also kindly argue against two of your other points: First off I think Riko's actions are supposed to speak louder about her character than any of the show's words, and by this point of the show we've become "well acquainted" with "who" Riko is. Riko frequently flirts with danger by making questionable decisions, is entirely single-focus driven to the point of being an airhead and making mistakes, is analytical and not physically noteworthy as far as the show is concerned, and tends to gloss over things that don't immediately benefit her. You can frequently see these representations all the way from episode one. Take the, like, three second scene where Riko is trying to answer the door for Leader while she's hiding Reg initially. What does she do? She quickly throws a cover over Reg because she doesn't have a better spot for him, runs for the door but stubs her toe like a ditz, and only gets out of the situation because Leader pretty much lets her off the hook and she has Reg carry her to safety later. Why was Leader even there? As a consequence of Riko's decision to go against the orphanage's established rules and try to selfishly benefit herself/ spend time researching something that interests her. Does Riko actually accomplish anything on her own at any point of this? Outside of learning a bit of Reg's capabilities (knowledge is her primary contribution throughout the ENTIRE show), no. Riko stubs her toe, and that is her contribution to the scene. Riko fails in every way imaginable except for her one goal- gaining knowledge about Reg. Which is why I think the firey-death scene is such a perfect scene for her. She's so focused on how a destruction-laser could help them reach the BOTTOM of the Abyss that she's focused on, she forgets to see the actual consequences that are occurring RIGHT AROUND her. Which brings me to point two: Riko isn't just Riko in the destruction scene. She's a representation of humanity's hubris. I think that's the main reason she's naked in the scene, since without distinguishing clothes she's as close to a "generic" human as she can get (at least I HOPE that's the reason...). Yes it's cliche and kind of overplayed, but it is nonetheless a striking visual warning that humanity has to work to understand consequences lest we could easily destroy ourselves. It brings up both the benefits of technological advancements while also addressing that humanity should respect and fear what we create. tl;dr I was kind of hoping that Riko would get a "comeuppance" at some point as a consequence for her dumb decisions, but the show did a good job at making me feel like a piece of shit for wanting that.
I agree with everything in this video. HOWEVER I think the scene where that one guy looked in Reg's pants because it just felt unnecessary. I felt uncomfortable watching a grown man forcefully peer into a child's pants against his will. Also if I found a part robot part human child I would have so many more questions than "Does this thing have human genitalia"
It is uncomfortable even with the child permission. Think of a visit to the doctor. I had sand stuck there when I was 8 years old and I was so embarrased to tell my grandparents that I almost got an infection. Luckily my grandmother was a nurse and she new what to do, but hell that it was embarrasing.
I would disagree with that point for the point made in the video, it emphasizes that Reg is not seen as a human being and is being treated as if he were not a human being
'Sex Sells' is a Cavemen-Mindset that has become a Religion. Simple as that - or at least IT WAS as simple as that. But not anymore. Fanservice, the Anime-Version of Sex Sells, which Humanity honestly should just stop already, is spiraling out of control. I see Manga from and for Pedophiles. Which is of course just one (extreme) level. But that's exactly the point: There's countless Levels of this, making it, i guess, easier for some to believe this isnt even a Problem. -Which is a problem, duh! So many are ok with this shit. 'Gamers' is also a nice example. A good Anime, really, but it has the weird/odd habbit to randomly insert sexualized stop-motion-pictures of the female characters. In random situations they never were in... It literally adds nothing, it just feels odd, not positive in any way. It feels like Sex Sells is inserted just for the purest sake of doing it, and it's just so odd and misplaced... Hope you get what i mean.
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
I hope you are not one of the people that say it's absurd for people to think nips are less ok than Gore in TV, because it's exactly what you're doing. None of the characters in the manga are depicted sexually, just explicitly, except for one specific "extra" page where Prushka is masturbating, WHICH, LIKE SAID IN THE VIDEO, IS MEANT TO EMPHASIZE HER BEING A CHILD. People that use that "But muh manga" argument are clearly completely clueless about writing.
You mean removed a core and important part of the character development that made every single scene of nudity shown, including the extra ones they included themselves completely pointless and gratuitous and had no reason to exist because everything it was leading to was completely removed for a cheap joke? Thank them for THAT? NO. I Shall Not. They made several mistakes, and that was definitely one of the worst ones. All of that was building to Riko treating Reg as a person rather than a Thing/Pet, since early on in the manga they established that Riko is actually shy and bashful when getting naked around other people (especially boys). But Reg wasn't a person as far as she was concerned, he was more like a Pet Dog or Just a Robot, so she didn't really care. Likewise it hammered home that Riko didn't notice that Marulk was a boy. However by the time of the Hot Springs scene she FINALLY accepts Reg as a person/Boy and stops getting naked around him since she realizes it's making him uncomfortable and after accepting him as a person does care enough to mind her surroundings.
It's not to develop her character. It's to develop Orth's character. It tells in us in one panel that Orth is akin to a industrial revolution age society that has no value of children beyond what they can produce, and that their ability to work is more important than their dignity. Punishments only move to corporal if embarrassment fails to work and sparring the rod is costing them more than it using it will. (it literally only happens once, because Naked Hanging is the warning. If you do it again, you get CANED till you can't walk for a week. Which happens to Riko in the manga, instead of the Anime doing naked hanging again and making it seem like it's a frequent punishment).
I am so glad this was made. I believe made in Abyss was a masterpiece. When somebody brought this very topic up to me I did not know how to handle it. But now I have a great piece of material that I can show to people thank you.
'Sex Sells' is a Cavemen-Mindset that has become a Religion. Simple as that - or at least IT WAS as simple as that. But not anymore. Fanservice, the Anime-Version of Sex Sells, which Humanity honestly should just stop already, is spiraling out of control. I see Manga from and for Pedophiles. Which is of course just one (extreme) level. But that's exactly the point: There's countless Levels of this, making it, i guess, easier for some to believe this isnt even a Problem. -Which is a problem, duh! So many are ok with this shit. 'Gamers' is also a nice example. A good Anime, really, but it has the weird/odd habbit to randomly insert sexualized stop-motion-pictures of the female characters. In random situations they never were in... It literally adds nothing, it just feels odd, not positive in any way. It feels like Sex Sells is inserted just for the purest sake of doing it, and it's just so odd and misplaced... Hope you get what i mean.
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
I can agree with the sentiment that fiction depicting the concept of childhood nudity or sexuality doesn't have to automatically be written off as gratuitous schlock without even judging the narrative itself. But in Made in Abyss's case? I think it's simply there because the mangaka gets off on having it there. There are too many suspect details for me to just ignore it as a quirk of childhood innocence in a darker setting. Riko casually shoving a stick up robo boy's ass? Riko regularly being strung up naked not playing any real narrative role in her upbringing or building up an emotional disconnect from her abusive home? Riko repeatedly wetting herself and being eaten out by a living toilet? None of that strengthens characterization, It just seems like that's what the author's into. And I'd be lying if I said that it doesn't make me uncomfortable.
Not regularly strung up. It only happened once (the anime used it twice). The 2nd time she stole stuff she was caned til she couldn't walk for a week (the director wasn't kidding in the manga about the next time it wouldn't be naked hanging). Embrassment punishments are common to this day in several parts of the world as they don't prevent subject from working as soon as the period of punishment is over. And when you're having to also take care of said people, any down time is money lost. The orphanages aren't charities. They take in people who they think will result in a higher return than the costs of taking care of them will for the guild. Especially with the high turn-over abyss delving has.
It's treated as a common thing. And again, I don't feel that the punishment is there to really emphasize Riko's genuine fear or hatred for her abusive caretakers, as that's never really explored or used as a reason for why she leaves, it's just there so they can showcase a panel of her tied up and naked, and have the little boy make comments about her pubic hair. i.e. it's either played up for comic relief, or for fetish pandering, and based on later content, I assume that it's both.
No it tells us that Orth cares more about it's ward's ability to work than their dignity. It's character development for the town and it's culture (or at least the Guild's culture). Naked Hanging IS common.....as a warning. You do it again, you get beaten instead. (Embrassment punishments have been common throughout history as a first line of and even in schools were happening as late as the 40's before things started getting cracked down on to varying degrees though they remained in less hostile forms (dunce caps and the like) until the 80-90's where it ultimately became illegal.) They are literally an industrial revolution-ish age society where children have no real rights, especially not those within orphanages, whose only value is what they can produce. And beating them can potentially hinder their ability to produce which costs the orphanage more money than what they took. Unless they're a repeat offender and beating so that they can't work for few days is costing them less than letting them run wild does. But the key point is...that's just the world they live in and have ever known. Of course it's not gonna be a big reason for leaving, because that's just the way the world works (and as bad as it is, most of other places are worse since Orth is one of the new lands untouched by the war due to the strength of their relics and other nations not willing to risk being cut off from the relic market if they try to openly attack them and fail. Instead preferring to discretely sponsor teams to infiltrate and try to steal relics). But it gives us the viewers/readers a quick short-hand for placing what sort of work/punishment culture Orth uses, without having to go on about it for pages and pages description their laws and how they work etc etc. It's quick, efficient, and tells us everything we need to know.
Maybe I'd be more inclined to agree with your point if the hanging scene was the only scene in question, but it's not. It's far from the worst that the manga has to offer. There are moments later on that are borderline torture porn and tentacle rape. And the author's been known to favorite/repost lewd art of his characters on his art accounts, so he's not even hiding underlying intent. Made in Abyss is a series with a strong premise, strong production values, good lore, and an artistic theme that made me hope for something along the lines of dark fantasy Studio Ghibli. I genuinely wanted to enjoy it. But for me personally, it's too heavily marred by the content that seems to be there purely for the purpose of disturbing titillation.
Im going to point out that when you are in an adventure, all kind of gross things happen. I have hiked arround a local mountain range several times and there is a lot of stuff to tell. I saw a guy cutting himself deep with a sharp rock and we have to treat the wound, we dealt with vomit and diarrhea a lot of times, we had to bury our poop in the snow, we saw animal skeletons and corpses, and, the most dangerous of all according to the reactions of people to MiA, we dealt with casual nudity. Sometimes you just want to take a bath in a lake or waterfall, sometimes everyone is so dirty/wet/cold that we had to inmdetiatly get inside the tents, get naked, clean/dry ourselves and hide inside our sleeping bags to avoid the risk of hypothermia. And when you are in situations where you only have the most basics of needs, you don't mind any of this stuff (also not everyone actually enjoys camping and mountain hiking, and the gross factor is usually a huge part of why people dont like it, while the physical requirements is the other big reason).
I am amazed at the animators who had to animate the gore scene with Mitty. I get queezy just looking at that for two seconds, imagine spending a few days on drawing just that scene. Sure, I guess you get used to it, but still.
This is INCREDIBLE! I kind of had a vague notion of this, of why they did it, veeery vague, but you went into absolutely AMAZING depth and said it way better than I ever could!!! Your first MiA video is what hooked me on the show and this one is EQUALLY as fantastic and well-researched! Although like one of the other comments said I was on the fence anyone could reasonably present why this stuff is ok and /narratively relevant/ but you SUCCEEDED UTTERLY! Your Made in Abyss videos are my ABSOLUTE FAVORITES AND I HOPE YOU MAKE MORE OF THEM!!! :D :D :D :D
After scrolling through the comments section for more context, I would like to offer a sincere o7 to the animators and directors who decided to take the original artist's fetish and turn it into something of value for characterization.
Yeah, this is an ever-present dilemma when you watch a lot of anime... I'm actually constantly surprised these series make it to my country legally. I mean, if you examine the laws around depictions of child sexuality and animation here you'd think a large portion of these series would get banned, yet they frequently don't even get that high a rating. I say this because we have laws here that would classify animated characters that LOOK like children (yes, it's based entirely on what they look like, NOT on how they are treated in the story - someone that looks like a child IS a child for legal purposes in relation to pornograpy. Don't ask me to explain that, it's just the way the laws are here) are treated the same legally speaking as actual children for purposes relating to sexual depictions. Thus, on paper, given how the laws are framed, a LOT of anime is skirting into territory that would get it legally classified as child pornograpy if the laws were being applied consistently. Except... It's very obvious they are not, because not only do these series make it here with minimal censorship, they also get through the government run ratings authority, and often with fairly low ratings for good measure! I don't know what to make of this honestly... Very confusing. It's also weird watching some of this stuff, and the implications of how these series behave. Take 'No Game No life' in which one of the main protagonists is a 12 year old girl... Amongst the weird scenes involving contrived reasons for her to be naked, what stood out to me as being particularly weird and messed up was actually in the opening episode... Where one of the characters states something to the effect of it's unhealthy to sexualise children and teenagers, followed almost immediately by a very dubious camera angle placed low down between this 12 year old's legs. I'm sure that was no accident, but the contradiction is pretty messed up. Plus, I really don't like this tendency to force sexualised perspectives. It's a broader problem than 'loli/child' characters, and it gets to fan service in general, but when the camera is forcing you to look at things that mainly just make you uncomfortable it can get quite irritating. 'fan service' being the implication that the viewer watches things specifically BECAUSE of such dubious camera perspectives that really don't add much to the story, but exist for their own sake... But if it's not actually something you're interested in, such shots are uncomfortable and distracting, rather than being something enticing... That they combine this with underage characters to VERY underage characters... That's a whole other level of dubious.... Egh. Being an Anime fan can be a real headache sometimes...
I have to say i legitimately didn't believe that anyone could convince me that made in abyss' underaged nudity was okay. But goddamn if you didn't pull it off. Well done. This is the content I've been waiting for from you.
CyberNinjaZero yeah but dragonball did it a lot more comedically and from what i remember was usually done either in a way that condemned that kind of behavior or was used to show how much of an idiot goku was. It didnt hold you down and say "12 YEAR OLD DICKS AND VAGINA THAT ARE INGRAINED INTO THE THEMES OF THE STORY."
TsukuyomiREKT ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Owa5KcQ9Mxc.html this video sums up what i think about lolis but honestly, if you legitimately arent distrubed with the idea of fucking a 12 year old or made to uncomfortable with sexualizing a 12 year old, you are a degenerate.
I think the reason the show made me feel weird, even though I really loved it, was because the questionable scenes kind of feel like they're made for people with a fetish for truly innocent children, and specifically for seeing innocent children suffer. All of it is thematically understandable, because it's written really well, but it still kind of feels like only someone who enjoys imagining these things would write them this way.
I dislike of peverted portrayal of children, however, following what you just said, we wouldn't be able to really do anything anymore, and humanity should commit collective sudoku. (Explanation: "You can't just say "Oh this looks like it was made for people with X Fetish." Some people have feet fetish, and some media will show them feet in a sexually arousing way, and others will show them feet in a non-sexualizing way, but they are both showing him what he fetishizes on. Whenever you think about it, just remember, somewhere in the world someone masturbates thinking about babies, therefore we should just kill every living thing to fucking stop everyone from fetishizing on anything ever.)
@@arlaghdoth4434 That's false equivalency, considering that attraction to children or the idea of children in sexual situations is inherently predatory (even if you don't act on those predatory urges), and feet fetishes are not. Even if it WASN'T false equivalency, there is a very famous example of a foot fetishist who does create media that would only ever be created from the perspective of someone with that fetish-- Quentin Tarantino and his endless supply of feet shots in his movies. Sure, someone without that fetish may not even really notice it, but observing the pattern and the deliberate choices directly reflects the reality of the creator. Those foot shots are ONLY there because QT, ahem, "enjoys" them and has the inclination to focus on them. Similarly, the prevalence of the focus on child sexuality in MiA, particularly the manga with its reported differences in framing, is a reflection of the author, and it isn't unreasonable to feel squigged the hell out by the fact that someone with that inclination is producing the media you are consuming. The narrative and directorial framing of those scenes would undoubtedly be different or not even exist if it wasn't coming from a position of perversion and fixation. You also catastrophize to an absurd degree. "Kill everyone so no one has fetishes" is leagues away from "can we please not enable and destigmatize predatory sexual appetites and behaviors with media that earns its creators a lot of fucking money", which isn't even what Alex Sunderland said, what he said was "this made me feel weird and kind of uncomfortable because I got the sense that it was, at least to the creator, at least SOMEWHAT sexually gratifying, and children should not be sexualized".
I like to see fictionnal characters, and kids in general, suffer. What empathy for something written on a piece of paper ? Really ? You don't ? So the teenagers in Evangelion are also a fetish ? Or in Shin Sekai Yori ? And let's not talk about Harry Potter or most stories in general. Let's be honest, you are just trying to to find excuses.
Everything under the sun can be a fetish these days so if you tried to make a series that can't be see as exemplifying ANY fetishes I think it's gonna be a helluva struggle
Honestly I watched made in abyss a year ago and I completely forgot all about the Nudity that's in it. I legit just remember the terror I felt while watching two of the most lovable characters going through hells incarnation
This was an issue I saw in My hero academia, we had a scene where we were suppossed to have Momo going through a crisis of self faith but the whole time we have her in an outfit no 16 year old should be in while the camera is looking at her breasts
I read the MHA manga somewhat recently and in the editors notes for momo at the end of a chapter he talked about how momos original costume was “borderline illegal” (or something similar)
Noodle Kujo I don’t think that’s the problem that op is talking about. It’s mainly just how these (usually adult male) anime and manga creators like to over sexualize underage girls. They were the ones that actively CHOSE to focus in on Momo’s breasts and THAT is the part that makes it weird af ://
@@Jailson_rah Wouldn't it be better to use a Gym crop top for her quirk? Doesn't sexualise her and allows her to use her quirk anytime through her stomach, which is much better than having to undress in the middle of a fight because the hole in her chest is not big enough to create items Oh wait, that don't show le anime titties, it can't be done then
If MiA existed only as an anime, I could see your point and maybe even agree with you. Your arguments make sense. The problem is the fact the MiA is originally a manga (I only have vol 1+2 so far, so I can only compare the strung up scene and the 'undressed because of vomit' scene), which handles the same scenes with, let's say, less grace. a) The anime censored them (thank God). All the boobs are covered in hair, which they are not in the manga. The bondage scene is a full-body shot, too. There is just way more Riko to look at. b) The boobs are realistic pre-teen boobs. Having been a young girl in the past, I can say that with confidence. They just started growing, and in at least 1 picture in vol 2 you can even see her nibs, and lots show her areola. Is that really necessary in getting across the idea of nakedness? c) You claim her nakedness is intended for Reg to observe, but in order to get that across, there was no need to make her visible to the audience as well. The same could have been shown with more hair, with different camera angles and framing to show us that Reg sees her naked, but we don't. Not having it that way was a choice.
Considering Reg is topless the entire time and no one bats any eye why should I consider Riko's toplessness any more sexual than Reg's? I don't, because I'm not one to consider a kid's chest as sexual by default and neither the show nor the manga frames either Reg or Riko's chests as anything sexual. How come we as humans have come this far yet we still freak out when a human female shows a bit too much skin? To me this is no less ridiculous than back in the day when we lost our marbles when a woman showed her ankles. How about we just stop immediately concluding that a human female showing more skin than we're used to is sexual in nature?
Did ... did you skip the part where she's strung up hogtied from the ceiling, naked? Is that a regular, non-sexualized activity for you? You're either arguing from bad faith or trolling.
Alright, fair point. That scene is the one exception. Not gonna argue it doesn't look sexual. For some reason that scene just slipped my mind when I made my first comment. Though I personally found the sexuality of that situation to be more comedic than anything.
Just gonna say, they probably recognized how terrible that was & made intentional changes to the theme when adapting it. When you translate a piece of content from one media to another, the meaning can get lost or even completely change in context, & I think that's what happened here. While translating it from manga to anime, they changed the meaning.
A friend put it to me like this "Sensitivity is about learning and understanding, not serving your own desires and wants. Unless it so happens your desire is to help, and even than, you may be forced to do nothing and simply sit by and learn." If I may say so myself you nailed this talk, once again, as precise and efficiently as I think can be humanly managed.
Yeah, I'm fine with nudity and I know children have a sexual curiosity, but the focus that was put on it in this anime made me uncomfortable. Like, they didn't have to oh so coincidentally be in a situation where one of the kids got naked / got something shoved up their butt every other episode.
'Sex Sells' is a Cavemen-Mindset that has become a Religion. Simple as that - or at least IT WAS as simple as that. But not anymore. Fanservice, the Anime-Version of Sex Sells, which Humanity honestly should just stop already, is spiraling out of control. I see Manga from and for Pedophiles. Which is of course just one (extreme) level. But that's exactly the point: There's countless Levels of this, making it, i guess, easier for some to believe this isnt even a Problem. -Which is a problem, duh! So many are ok with this shit. 'Gamers' is also a nice example. A good Anime, really, but it has the weird/odd habbit to randomly insert sexualized stop-motion-pictures of the female characters. In random situations they never were in... It literally adds nothing, it just feels odd, not positive in any way. It feels like Sex Sells is inserted just for the purest sake of doing it, and it's just so odd and misplaced... Hope you get what i mean.
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
I think the reason people are a tad more shocked/mad at the scenes in Abyss is the fact it’s an adventure anime, going from exploring inside a chasm to a scene where a pubescent boy’s genitals are ogled at or a 12 year old girl is bare chested can definitely be a bit shocking. But with Eromanga Sensei you can just look at the title alone to know there’s gonna be butt shots and boob jiggles galore even if the person who’s doing it is a 12-13 year old girl
if someone watches made in abyss and thinks that a 12 year old being naked is an inherently sexual thing then the problem is kinda on their side side tbh
thats right , we have at home many photos from vacations etc.. where i was little baby and completly naked and everybody just say i was cute baby(mostly fat) and just SJW will say it is pornographic material for pedophiles , we often go to near lake and swim in it naked and nobody cares, (yes i was curious why are girls different but this is normal ) and when we see girls naked yes our penis got big oooo mighty nature) and when they show this type of thing in anime its pedophilia
Entraya Crosshill That's completely ignoring the nature of a lot of anime/manga. Made in Abyss doesn't exist in a vacuum. When people have seen little girls sexualized in anime before you don't see how a naked little girl in an anime could make them jumpy? You're also ignoring the fact that the manga creator is big into loli porn apparently, so...
(im perfectly aware of it that, and i know why they think that, i just dont personally appreciate that blanket caution) there will always be thrash but im the kind of person who relishes antidotes like made in abyss, cause i know i will be seeing the rise of even more, even greater thrash (and the manga creator of kuroshitsuji made some kind of really bizarre hentai doujin featuring all the obvious themes you might expect, so frankly i appreciate both of these mangakas for managing to keep their fetishes and their work separate)
the typical hypocritical condescending western moral standard is cancer. Stop trying to censor the fact that naked 12 year-old children exist just because of your own dirty thinking.
I seriously did not expect to see a discussion about Made in Abyss and Eromanga Sensei. Like, those are worlds apart in tone. But this was great, and thank you for sharing your thoughts
My issue with made in the abyss is that the author clearly has a fetish for putting underaged children in discussing graphic situation. I've been watching anime for years, I've seen hundreds of series and thousands of episodes and in all that time I've seen exactly 2 scenes that required one character to prove around another characters asshole. They were both in made in abyss. Did we really need not one but two different scenes about a child in such pain she pissed herself? I gaurentee you you don't want to see this man's browers history.
perfect example of non-exploitative assault/rape of a minor: Guts being raped at the beginning of the golden age arc of Berserk also evangelion is a perfect example of an anime which properly portrays children’s sexuality
NONSENSE. Evangelion is the one anime that does the female characters laughable bad. They all seem brain-damaged. They are all seen in shitty fanservice moments, sometimes even defying the laws of physics just to show a Boob Grab or something. ITS PITIFUL.
Your graph immediately reminded me of an artistic direction from Rumiko Takahashi for the Inuyasha animators about drawing Kagome's short skirt and never EVER exposing her panties; Even if it seemed like what would just physically happen in the scene, find an angle where it doesn't. Takahashi was amazing to me about controlling tone. Even in Ranma 1/2's comedy revolving around sex, nudity and spontaneous physical sex transformation, it was extremely clear when nudity was supposed to be humorous/innocuous or sensual as determined by the actual plot. Even in the latter case it was distinctly the *Characters* who were affected by the nudity and not a... 'non-diegetic' attempt to appeal to the audience. (With the notable exception of one of the feature films) Something about the way she framed her manga and her anime were directed managed to avoid 'sexualizing' her characters even when they were literally wearing Flamenco bikinis and/or a coconut and nothing else. I don't know how to isolate her talent there except to point to almost every other Anime managing to do the exact opposite and using angles that turn wearing sweatpants and eating chips into pornography.
Unfortunately I can’t agree with you on made in abyss. Yes, nakedness doesn’t inherently equal sexualisation, however the way in which the characters are rendered in the manga at least is very reminiscent of ecchi works. You talk as if Rikos body is not defined or sexualised, but her chest is been very weirdly rendered in one of the uncomfortable and unnecessary sexually themed scenes in the recent chapters of the manga. I understand that this video only covers the anime, but we can’t ignore the source material for things like this. Man, just because you’re criticising Eromanga doesn’t mean that you have to defend MIA. In fact, MIA has great art and worldbuilding, but that doesn’t mean that we have to accept it as a 100% perfect piece of media. It’s okay to criticise the intentions behind good or popular media, and I personally will continue to do so.
It's not like made in abyss is made for children it is published by a pretty graphic and violent magazine and like berserk I think shouldn't be held back. It is a work of fiction after all
@@nekepac5772 the manga is more graphic however it still doesn't matter because its fiction and people are more offended about a nipple being shown than how this character faces constant dangers and many fucked up revelations that make the anime look tame in comparison. People dont seem to know the meaning of what a pedophile is, liking a drawing that actually doesnt look like a real life person is not and should bever be considered pedophilia. If you like Killing in gta then are you a murderer? Are you a psycopath? No you arent. The manga is graphic and doesn't shy away from showing nudity however it is important to note that this isnt even the focus of the series and this series is not meant for children at all its not a disney movie. I take issue with how this series gets attacked for showing some light nudity and Berserk a series that has rape, murder and even shows the rape and near rape of underaged girls doesnt get any flack. Censorship is never a good thing
@WaddleBuff I mean, you can KIND OF tie it to the source material, I do agree that anime and manga are two separate pieces of media and they should be seen as such, but what we were talking about here are the intentions behind writing devices and storytelling structures that define what makes the anime be the same story as the manga being retold and not a completely different story, otherwise it shouldn't even be named "Made in Abyss". So the judgement here, is about the art used by the author during some scenes that did not serve any purpose in the manga, which I didn't read but searched some minutes to find some panels, in which, yeah we could say he "Lewded dem Lolis", and you're pretty much blind to say he didn't, it's still an amazing piece of art even if some of the author's dirt got in the way of it.
zero Yeah same. I didn't think this would have been an issue. There is one scene in the manga though where Riko pretty much gets raped by a toilet after she's done her business. I guess it was meant to be a joke but it came across really unsettling.
I just started the anime and was always curious as to why most characters seem oblivious to the fact that Reg has a very human personality despite being a robot. I feel kind of sorry for him that most people just see him as a robot and they don't seem to care whether he gets embarassed, insecure, worried, etc. I haven't finished the anime yet, haven't read the manga, and I don't mind spoilers so I hope people he meets start to see him as more human and become more considerate of his feelings.
I don't see it as a problem because none* of the nudity is meant to be seen as sexual unlike the other animes that suffer from the same problme N:(basically)
I actually think you make some really great points in this video, and I certainly agree with the sentiment that sexuality in younger characters can be explored in a manner that isn't objectifying. Really liked the comparisons with framing/context/ect of actual full blown loli fanservice shows. BUT... I do think it's naive to think that MiA has no fetishy intentions at all. Like, the source material is full of really gross deviantart fetish fuel shit that really doesn't add to the narrative at all. I do feel like the people who adapted the manga wanted to erase/tone down/turn those situations into something meaningful, but when the manga is so abhorrent in it's (rather extreme) sexualisation, I can't really brush it aside so easily. That being said, great job on this video, reeeeallly squicky subject, but I think you did a good job :)
they left out one detail in the anime for some reason. and it stings me because it's a turning point in riko's development. in the bath scene, after reg drowns in embarrassment, reko just stares for a moment, gears turning, before she bluches as well and covers herself up. only from this moment on she really sees him as human.
'Sex Sells' is a Cavemen-Mindset that has become a Religion. Simple as that - or at least IT WAS as simple as that. But not anymore. Fanservice, the Anime-Version of Sex Sells, which Humanity honestly should just stop already, is spiraling out of control. I see Manga from and for Pedophiles. Which is of course just one (extreme) level. But that's exactly the point: There's countless Levels of this, making it, i guess, easier for some to believe this isnt even a Problem. -Which is a problem, duh! So many are ok with this shit. 'Gamers' is also a nice example. A good Anime, really, but it has the weird/odd habbit to randomly insert sexualized stop-motion-pictures of the female characters. In random situations they never were in... It literally adds nothing, it just feels odd, not positive in any way. It feels like Sex Sells is inserted just for the purest sake of doing it, and it's just so odd and misplaced... Hope you get what i mean.
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
I kind of WANT to believe this theory but I really doubt it sadly... xD I met the Mangaka in a Q&A Panel in Germany, I even was there as cosplayer as Nanachi because I really love the show! buuuuut he made it verrrryyyy clear that he really likes kids.....he reallllllyyyy likes them...xD And if you look away from the anime to the manga you can clearly see that there actually IS a sexual aspect to some naked scenes (the tying up for example). I wont judge akihito tho xD... It looks pretty different in the Manga so check that out. I still like the series and I can handle it because i know its just anime characters buuuut i dont think you can fully tell what exactly the mangaka thought when creating all this and i dont think we should fully shrug it off either. I just hope the anime will stay less detailed like this.
There is a concept in literary analysis called "author death." This concept is the idea that it doesn't matter what the author's intentions were because when they released their work to the public, they cut it off from themselves in a way. The work is open to analysis, interpretation, and criticism based on its own merits and the author stating exactly what it was "supposed to mean" doesn't mean shit anymore. This obviously isn't relevant to the manga because whether you take Author Death into consideration or not, the manga is weird and has scenes of very underage characters that are sexual in nature. However, when it comes to the anime it is entirely relevant because it doesn't matter if the author is a straight-up convicted paedophile because Made in Abyss is no longer his to mess with, it is to be judged on its merits and content alone. This is especially true because not only is the anime separate from the author, it isn't even directly his work, it's an adaptation that *clearly* goes out of its way to tone down the sexual scenes so that they aren't sexual and are only present when important to the story, characters, and themes. However, something I must stress; author death, like all tools for literary analysis, is only to be used on a case by case basis. Mainly because it can be manipulated to have bad effects. Let's say, for example, the author of Made in Abyss really wasn't interested in children at all, not even lolis; the Made in Abyss manga would still have the scenes that it does and they could be used against the author. Basically, author death can be used as an argument with which to defame an artist and shut down any and all defences they provide by saying, "it doesn't matter what their intentions were, the final product is this and that is a problem." Which isn't an argument without merit in some circumstances, but in the end, someone could be labelled as something as awful as a paedophile because of their work. That exact sort of situation happened when Vladimir Nabokov published "Lolita."
Ronin11111111 I'm glad someone said it. This channel is the best one out there, but between the lack of uploads here, and the complete abandonment of Questing Mark, I'm starting to lose faith in our anituber here. Keep this up and you'll never climb to the top...
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
Javarus Leary I recommend it. The soundtrack is genuinely beautiful and it's got an entirely different feel to it compared to your usual adventure anime - to me, it came across as an illustration of the inevitability of death and tragedy and how that forces those affected to change and overcome that.
Honestly the gore didn't even bother me, the show pulls of a magic sense of crushing darkness that never seems to completly smother out the main characters and that's what kept the suspense up for me the most.
Since there's only recommendation, I hope u didn't force ur self through it XD I love MiA & do recommend it for people who can watch, but this is why rating system's here, it's for more than just "but think of the children!". Not sure where the anime is at (I need to watch it especially after hearing sound track's good +S118 ) but it's only down hill & it'll probably be downhill onward... both literally & thematically(?) :P
You make a very valid point. You tackled this issue with real maturity. Not only pointing out that people sometimes misinterpret media, specially when it comes to children. It is true that people jump to the wagon whenever you put teens and children next to the word sex, and it’s important we analyze it in the context given. It’s very different when media objectifies children (Eromanga) to when they talk about the objectification (Lolita), when they use gender and sex to expand on the character (MIA) and when they use gender and sexuality to look back to what being a teen was (Galko Chan) I found your video really well structured and in no way defending what a problem with lolis Japan has. I would gladly watch more videos where you tackle this kind of issues, or even more serious one without a doubt. You seem someone well educated and understanding.
Very interesting ideas u have. Tbh I still get upset over the demonstrations of sexuality in MiA because most of it is honestly EMBARRASSING for the characters?? Especially for Reg. It's like I'm getting second-hand embarrassment and.. tbh some of the ogling Reg endured would probably scar me for a while under normal circumstances. The discomfort around sexuality that the characters display is actually part of the reason the nudity bothered me so much too. However, I will say the partial nudity in the anime bothered me A LOT more.. But then, when I doubled back, the nudity in the manga actually desensitized me. Cos, as you say, these are just kids. There's nothing sexual there and I think you're right that the posing/framing may actually do a lot to convey that.. these are literally just kids. And if you've been a kid, had kids, or had child siblings, you probably already got the impression at some point that not being fully dressed isn't the end of the world. It just happens in families. This doesn't detract from the fact that sexuality is addressed uncomfortably in the manga. Which may reflect real life tbh. And the much more frequent instances physical and psychological terror the kids endure in the abyss is honestly JUST AS UPSETTING. So I see what you mean when you ask "why is THIS where we draw the line????" OK yeah this series is just disturbing; let's put it that way. [edited for typos]
I think the main problem isn't that children act perverted like Riko and hint at such things because we all know that even younger kids can be curious and talk about sex. I think the problem a lot of people may have it that they perceive the author (a grown men) as fetishizing young children in showing them in such ways and making them talk and behave accordingly. This shifts the main focus that minors can be interested in sex and even be perverted (something normal) into the author using his manga as a way of glorifying his fetish (something gross if true). I didn't have any problem with the lewd scenes but I do understand the concern some people have.
the problem with this logic is that if its bad for an author to depict children in any sexual context at all, because it must mean that the author is doing it for perverted reasons, then it means that these sorts of scenes can never really be created unless these scenes are literally created entirely by people who are children at the time of creation (to avoid the pedophilc author problem). but then people would complain about children drawing sexual depictions of other children, so it wouldnt really fix the existence of a problem, just change what kind of problem it is. i dont know what kind of practical solution these people would advocate for implementing to deal with the problem, but i have a feeling they dont actually have any reasonable solutions at all, they just enjoy complaining about things despite not having any idea how to actually deal with the issues they complain about. this is extremely common though.
@@kenpanderz672 it's simply one of those problems that depend on the author's intentions, and unfortunately there is no way of knowing those. it is a complicated issue and you don't need to know how to fix it to point out problems with it, but it's true that the people who talk about such things a lot (online at least) tend to have Bad solutions, that rely on gatekeeping, enforcement, (sex) puritanism and ridiculous definitions of pedophilia
As an expert in bizarre Internet fetishes I have a 200% certainty the Made In Abyss author is just coming up with fetish scenarios for his own satisfaction.
As a reader of Chibi Vampire, who understands that this is pretty much the entire premise for Karin's nosebleeds, as confessed directly by series author Yuna Kagesaki, I can concur with this observation. Manga/anime is an outlet for all manner of author kinks.
I hope you revisit this topic when season 2 comes out July of this year! This stuff is even more prevalent in this arc since it's going to be about Faputa. Given all we may or may not know about Faputa, her mother Irumyuui and Vueko, this topic is very much worth bringing up again.
i tried reading the manga of made in abyss (actually pretty blind- I had an inkling it got a bit fucked up, but nothing about to what extent, how early or the frequent sexual references involving children and child nudity), and like i dunno maybe it's just because i'm a prude and a little oversensitive to the topic of paedophilia but i really disliked the frequent nudity in made in abyss, i felt like someone (not even necessarily the author/artist) was getting off there and it made me as you said very uncomfortable. It made me uncomfortable to the point where I didn't want to continue after volume 2, which is a shame because I felt the dark fantasy, no warm fuzzies, the world and most things in it are malevolent and will hurt you in every way really, really engaging but then when it got to someone fondling reg's roboballs again i felt dirty and didn't want to continue. I do agree that oversexualisation (a little bit in general, but outweighed millionfold towards the loli archetype) is the biggest problem with anime, and while you've provided a very convincing argument it's really hard to get over that creeping dread that I know for a fact it's giving someone out there their "fix". Speaking of fixes, anyone got any recommendations for anime that are a similar dark fantasy, pull no punches style thing in a similarly fantastical setting, but without all the stuff that makes me feel like somebody's creepy uncle?
'Sex Sells' is a Cavemen-Mindset that has become a Religion. Simple as that - or at least IT WAS as simple as that. But not anymore. Fanservice, the Anime-Version of Sex Sells, which Humanity honestly should just stop already, is spiraling out of control. I see Manga from and for Pedophiles. Which is of course just one (extreme) level. But that's exactly the point: There's countless Levels of this, making it, i guess, easier for some to believe this isnt even a Problem. -Which is a problem, duh! So many are ok with this shit. 'Gamers' is also a nice example. A good Anime, really, but it has the weird/odd habbit to randomly insert sexualized stop-motion-pictures of the female characters. In random situations they never were in... It literally adds nothing, it just feels odd, not positive in any way. It feels like Sex Sells is inserted just for the purest sake of doing it, and it's just so odd and misplaced... Hope you get what i mean.
Arent those 12? And Explanation Point states they are already sexual conciuess and should be? Lol. Isnt the whole 'Cuties'-Discussion regarding Netflix that goes on right now about 11-Years old and how they are, in fact, KIDS?!
While I can understand how defending the anime makes sense as the anime tells the story without becoming pedobait but the source manga partakes in everything you defended from the anime . The manga would sexualize Riko and the other characters for no reason other than for it to happen. While the Anime handles the source material to tell what is genuinely an interesting story the Manga makes moments that do not need to be sexual sexual for no reason.
Let’s just make this clear right now Made in Abyss Amine and Manga are very different when it comes to this. While the anime has legitimate reasons for all of the scenes mentioned and isn’t just there for sexualizing minors. The manga is definitely guilty of this full stop and does have scenes of sexualizing Riko, Reg and other minors. And by that I mean it’s gets to practically hentai levels and imo worse than Eromanga Sensei.
It shouldn't be off limits when if it's not being sexualized, but you can't just pretend like this isn't coming from a culture that sexualizes underaged girls in every other animated show or graphic novel they put out- I'm supposed to ignore the fact that everything around this show, including the source material, implies those scenes are meant to be sexual. Even still, I'm supposed to believe that this show isn't doing the same thing the numerous times they've had those kids in those questionable scenes?... I'm not buying it. Sure, Ero-Manga is worse and I'm sure there's media even worse than that, but the argument "something else is worse so this is fine" has never been a valid one. That's part of reason why what was once only acceptable in fringes of society has now become mainstream. Made in Abyss is the result of or at least speaks to the over-sexualization and over indulgence in porn and the like in their culture- Unfortunately, we're not too far behind albeit with less porn and more promiscuity. We have to be more mindful about these things.
Only Riko is not only shown strung up naked, but it's referenced by her earlier and by Ozen toward Maruruk later, the latter being done in an oh so rapey tone. There are lots of ways to punish children that don't involve rope bondage, yet the author specifically chooses not only stringing up in the nude but that particular type of rope bondage. It's clearly fetishistic in nature and denying so because you like the show is just lacking in integrity. You know that it's possible to really like something and still take issue with elements, right?
I totally agree. Maybe some scenes can be looked at as a way to portray Riko's child-like innocence and Reg's humanity (ugh). But some of those scenes just serve no purpose. They don't affect the story, they don't leave scars on main characters, they're not addressed as issues that need to be resolved, they're just there.
+Жамиля Нильдибаева (Zhamka) Yes, that is the definition of "contrivance". It's like when, in a story there, is violence for no sake but its own. It has to be a fetish on the part of the author. What else could it be?
To show to the viewer how fucked up life in the orphanage is? The stakes are pretty high for showing something like that thanks to the thing from your avatar...
I’d also argue that it shows how fucked up the world is. Being strung up naked bondage style fits the theme of efficiency in Orth. You gust require a rope to do it, traumatize them while they’re young and they’ll become more apathetic to the abyss. Don’t forget punishments are usually harsher in orphanages(in anime at least) and that all white whistles have a screw loose in the case of Ozen.
Only the tone of those scenes isn't dark. Once again, when we hear Riko talking about being strung up naked, it's done with comedic timing. Then when we see her strung up, it's during a lighthearted montage. And the type of bondage we see is Kinbaku. She could have been tied up in some simple manner, but the knots are too elaborate to be anything other than a direct reference to traditional Japanese rope bondage. There's nothing there which suggests that it's part of dark world building. Nothing.
Out of boredom, I decided to rewatch this video but with sound off, and while I remembered some parts of it I found myself noticing a lot of your visual gags that flew over my head while listening to you talk, like Geoff dressed as a pirate. 10/10, would do again if I ever get bored enough to do so.
I think if you're going to talk about presentation and framing, it's more important to talk about the manga artist's presentation and framing, because that's where you can actually cut to the core of artist intention. I only read the first volume and skimmed the second, but that was enough for me to know that the anime team toned things way down. The scene of Riko strung up naked might be about one second long in the anime, but in the manga, the illustration takes up about 1/3 of the page and spreads beyond the panel borders to make sure you see her full body. The scene where Reg strips her naked (TO CHECK HER FOR INJURIES OF COURSE) is a half-page spread with fully illustrated nipples and everything, no convenient hair to cover things up. In the face of things like this (and I can only imagine more as the manga goes on) it becomes a lot harder to argue that this isn't porn for a very specific audience. I also agree that preteen sexuality shouldn't be a taboo subject in literature and other media, but a lot is going to weigh on presentation due to the nature of it being a sensitive subject. At the end of the day, what statement is this artist trying to make? Why is it IMPORTANT that these kids discover their sexuality in a horribly hostile world? Is it the same reason it's important that Riko pees herself on three separate occasions? What does a peeing little girl say that NO OTHER literary device can say?
As far as the manga goes, you're pretty spot on I'll say, except for that I think nipples present or not really shoudln't matter. If I was a mangaka I would draw nipples instead of "convenient hair" because I find that dumb. Anyway, everything else you said does basically confirm the artist's intention. For that reason, I think the mangaka is a pædophile. And that is necessarily going to blight the anime series, but they're not involved as far as I know and it's been much better s o far.
Ok I'll adapt the question. What does a peeing little BOY say that NO OTHER literary device can say? The story presents Reg in sexual ways too, just far less often. The biggest example that comes to mind is a shot right after he's gone fishing, where for some reason, the camera NEEDED to pan slowly down so that his soaked tighty-whities filled the screen, then linger on them. This never had any bearing on the story, so I guess I'm supposed to interpret that as something the audience really needed to see, for some reason. And honestly, how many characters need to examine/remark on his dick and butthole before we get enough of the message that he perceives his own sexual identity but nobody else sees it in him?
I think that even in the manga, expoint's argument still stands. While the nudity and piss are indeed more prominent in the manga, especially at the start, i do believe it's more of a somewhat awkward way for the author to tell the viewer shit's gonna get uncomfortable, or just consequences of things that happened like riko getting cursed and suffering. The anime does that while being much tamer about sex, which shows it's a good adaptation but it doesn't mean that the manga is pedo. To quote the video's points, the manga still doesn't have weird inappropriate boob/panty/penis shots that other actually fucked up works do. To put it shortly, context is the most important thing when it comes to judging sexuality in art, and Made in Abyss has proven both in its manga and anime that its sexual elements are appropriate for the context of its story.
also gratuitous nipple shots amount other stuff are constantly show later in the manga in the same way panty shots are show in the clips of eromanga sensei
I think a large part of the issue here is that some of the subjects branched in MIA could have been portrayed without nudity. The whole punishment scene could have been something completely different, yet still have given us a pretty high start point for suffering. The question of Reg’s humanity by an adult could have been shown without literal dick measuring, the question could have been does he have an actual heart or something like that. Even if the characters weren’t children, I’d still say this as well. It’s just that because the two prominent characters are children that this becomes very uncomfortable. And not in way that gives the anime more meaning, but in a way that’s pretty off-putting to the audience and that alone. Most robotic characters aren’t shown as being inhuman by having someone try to measure their junk, because that sounds like a joke/stupid/a set-up for porn. And with the punishment thing, it comes across as way to specific and I don’t think I’ve heard of anything similar happening in fiction that wasn’t sexual to someone (audience or character) in some way. I’m not saying that was the intent, but that it’s hard to not get that impression with past experience in mind.
ani mae Not really. The two scenes I’m referencing aren’t about the ruining of innocence; the punishment scheme is setting a threshold of suffering and making viewers understand the Riko and the city have a messed background. The scene with Reg is about how other are dehumanising, viewing him as a thing rather than a person with wants and needs. A slight change to those scenes makes them less awkward and fetishy, whilst still keeping the impact. Innocence is still marred without having to cross lines for NO REASON.
He literally explained why it's necessary that Riko was strung up naked. It created the opportunity for her to express that that she does feel embarrassed about being exposed to other humans. That's how we, as the viewer, can confirm that she sees Reg as a lesser being. Almost like how most people aren't embarrassed about being naked in front of a house pet. Reg is a robot, so he doesn't deserve that consideration. It's a very, very, very important part of the whole narrative, and it's spearheaded by that punishment scene.
Neilson Truong And the way she treats Reg throughout the series doesn’t already give us that impression, especially when compared to how she treats other people? She has no respect for his boundaries, she doesn’t view him as human and I think there are better ways to explore how she views Reg without going into stuff like the punishment scene. Sure it shows how she doesn’t view Reg as someone ‘worth’ being embarrassed around, but again you have the bathing scene and the fact that she’s okay being topless around him. You just have to show she’s not okay with that around other people; it doesn’t have to involve the punishment scene. But it does because that’s in the manga; they’ve thankful tones it down a bit, but I still think it’s a bit too far.
Anna Bella id have to disagree with you on the parts personally at least so it’s just a biased opinion. The punishment felt like a good threshold. It felt like a combination of all the twisted punishments a parent would threaten a child with. Then to see them happen and obviously traumatize the child hit home for me. For Reg getting his dick checked by people isn’t that weird. You’ve got a relic that looks, talks, and eats like a human. I can see a lot of people going “does he have a dick?” Given these people work around relics of all manners they wouldn’t really care for personal privacy of another relic.
Ethan R It’s all just a ‘biased opinion’ because none of us can say we’re completely right, which is why I said ‘I think’. The bondage punishment is not something a parent would threaten a child with or even a combination of them; sure it traumatic and so on, but it also feels out of place. Again maybe this is also because I tried to read the manga first, but the punishment itself doesn’t really come across as something that would be done to a child as a matter of course. There are plenty of things that could have been done that would have yielded similar effects without the undertone it yuck. Just go read something like Matilda or various other media for examples of cruel and unusual punishments for children. Same goes for what happens to Reg in both the anime and manga. Other media has managed to look at this topic in a better way, without resorting to literal dick measuring. Implied sure, the whole ‘does it have fully functional parts’ thing is fine, but they could have tried to make it come across as more professional; pretty sure you’d want to get the relic back to base before examining it. And maybe be a bit more delicate with it. My taste does colour my view, but again I’ve seen these sorts of ideas executed in a less ‘shocking’ other media. And I’d still have theses views even if it were adults, but the fact that its children just makes it even more wrong and hard to recommend to anyone (especially with the manga, which to me is bloody wrong).
On a anime fair last week (Animagic 2018, Mannheim, Germany) the author of the manga Made in Abyss held a panel (which i attended), in which one guest asked, why there are scenes in the anime/manga where Riko is shown completely naked and nothing covering her. One of the answers of the mangaka was that this is because he likes children. I am very grateful to the anime team for making the anime as it is. But i refuse to support the manga.
This is why i love the summer hikaru died, bc its really nostalgic, a cute love story with horror and reminded me of my first smexual experimentation with someone of same age as me as a pre teen
