Magic Systems with Rothfuss, Butcher, Wells, Cole, Sykes, Blackmoore - Phoenix Comicon 2014 

BABIES! BABIES EVERY-FUCKING-WHERE!

6 minutes in and they're already debating the specifics of D&D spells. God I love this panel.

Love Jim Butcher so much! He's like, "Yeah, I don't really think about that... I just make Harry miserable....that's it...really" LOL

Authors/Books Referenced Tolkien: Lord of the Rings George RR Martin: Game of Thrones Naomi Novik: Temeraire Feist: Magician Series ????/???? (Calling of the Shadow? I didn't catch this one) Terry Goodkind: Sword of Truth Richard Adams: Watership Down John McPhee: Basin and Range J.K. Rowling: Harry Potter Series Lev Grossman: The Magicians Peter V. Brett: The Demon Cycle Series Tim Powers: Last Call Roger Zelazny: The Amber Series Lyndon Hardy: Master of the Five Magics Brandon Sanderson Joe Abercrombie Scott Lynch Mark Lawrence Movies/Shows Reign of Fire Star Wars Walking Dead Lost Game of Thrones Sons of Anarchy Heroes Black Hawk Down Avatar: The Last Airbender Let me know if I missed anything

I love that Rothfuss is such a fanboy for Dresden! XD

"And if you're writing a series, it takes really, really long time-" [EVERYONE LOOKS AT JIM.]

Been binge watching author panels, with Jim Butcher on them, all day and I have made this simple observation. Someone brings a crying baby to all of them. Every last one.

The audio sounds like the mic is inside someone's stomach in the third row.

"You gotta have an end to your story or its not a story, its just something you're going on about," is another wild one!! Hahhaa

I'm watching this for the 4th or 5th time, great panel, great discussion, funny, smart, articulate people. References to a whole lot of books that I now need to read.

This has been very insightful! So, many great authors on the panel.

why is Sanderson not on this panel

This was a really interesting panel, thanks for filming it and posting it!

Great discussion - thanks for posting for those of us unable to attend these panels/cons.

This is a great and informative panel, but I did get distracted around 34 minutes by imagining that the tiny mic at the bottom of the screen was the top of a full sized mic and that Sam Sykes was a giant being interviewed by regular humans.

I think Tolkien's numinous magic worked because he used it sparingly. George RR Martin's magic is numinous as well but it works because it's kind of chaotic and its users don't understand it.

Thanks for the talk and the additions to my reading list. :) I think I just spent $150 on books. Again.

You know, i've never seen Rothfuss before... but i saw that bearded man and thought " yeah... that surely is a 'patrick rothfuss face' "

I live in Phoenix, and I've never been more ashamed for missing a public event.

I like how Rothfuss talked about the author touching themselves because that’s the exact feeling I got during the whole fairy queen sequence of Wise Mans Fear... lol Kinda the pot calling the kettle black buddy

cheers from 2024, I am still waiting ;]

That was awesome. Thanks for sharing! Didn't give me too many things to feel uncomfortable with in my own magic system.

going to enjoy watching this!

I would have loved to have seen Ursula K. Le Guine on this panel. Interesting discussion.

a great panel

Rothfuss is bald from the back. There's something new I learnt in this video

This is priceless

The night circus is my favorite soft/poetic magic system

As a father of 2 children, please get a sitter and leave your children at home for these type of events. Thanks. :)

stormlight archive makes me happy

I'm with Pat, the time turner always bugged me

I would create the magic system first, in the same vein as establishing the world's tech level and capabilities first, because that informs what kind of society and world i am working with, which in turn establishes the cultures that the protagonists and antagonists grew up in. Once I have that, the story can grow organically inside that world just by he characters behaving naturally as someone native to that world would. If I create the world before the magic, then I would have to go back to tweaking the world, especially the cultures, to reflect the effects the magic would have on society.

Good God Rothfuss loves to talk and talk and talk...

I hate nothing more than trying to watch a recorded panel (or even a college lecture) and there is a baby babbling/crying every five seconds right next to one of the mics.

It's interesting when these guys talk about how much they enjoy the subtleties of magic systems, yet can't seem to grasp the subtleties of character development of someone like Frodo. Sure people are flawed and make mistakes, but the current treatment by many authors of their characters is that they must possess fatal flaws to be "interesting". This strikes me as just as inauthentic and uninteresting as so-called perfect, or Mary Sue type of characters. To suggest that writing reflects more a sign of the times and a grittier audience (there's a long essay there) is absurd when people like Tolkien and Lewis had experienced the worst and most fatalistic times that humanity had possibly ever endured. As much as most of this panel referenced Tolkien, it's almost like they haven't bothered reading him as an adult since he not only develops Frodo beyond that guy's simplistic interpretation of him, but also explains (quite subtly and well) the limitations on Gandalf's power that they seem to have missed.

I'm getting a hard-pressed "Magic systems are not really important; your characters and plot will suffer once you make them complex and scientific" vibe from most of these authors. Not saying that's a bad thing but it would have been interesting to hear what Brandon Sanderson would have to say to that considering he's able to highlight on these intricate magic systems of his WHILE keeping up the quality of his characters and stories.

Rothfuss and Butcher teamup? :)

they really need a mic to pass to the questions so we could have heard that half of conversation

I modeled my homebrewed game's Wizard Class heavily off the Gandalf (and to a smaller extent) as portrayed in the movies and got a pretty interesting mix of magic & special abilities...

Every person on this panel is trying to describe Sanderson's First Law without stating Sanderson's First Law because it's SANDERSON'S First Law and they're not Sanderson.

Hey what book series was patrick talking about at about 14:20? Where he mentions some character being good at magic, and then having a mental breakdown and it changing everything? I couldn't really hear it well enough to make it out.

did anyone else catch the book titles? they sound like good books but i couldnt catch the titles.

32:40 Watch The Originals. It is a marvelous condensation of everything done right a show.

Two things i'll take away from this panel: I'd never heard of pretty much anyone here before accept Rothfuss and Butcher, but now i'll be on the lookout for all their books because they seem cool, and Rothfuss and Butcher need to write a book together

Feist's Magician series suffered massively from power escalation. Every new book or set of books had a scaled up bad guy.

As a tip to anyone that may record a panel show in the future, bring a small, cheap audio recording device with you and plug straight into the PA's aux port (or ask if a recording is already being made you can use, say for a podcast). You'll have clean audio to match your vid, and syncing in the cheapest of vid editiors isn't that challenging really. If you can snap your fingers, you can sync it. Then when folk go to watch your upload, they don't have to sit through a rather painful experience...

Around the 13-14min mark the audience starts suggesting stories where 'poetic magic' is used well. I can't hear many of the titles properly can anyone make a list?

I wonder what they think of psionics

is the baby crying all the fkng debate? pls tellme if u watched completly

hey who was the host of this panel? She looks really familiar to me, like an actress on a tv show I saw a long time ago or something.

Please try to remove the audio signal overdrive, i have a very good soundcard and linear headphones so it really really hurt my ears listening on some points, not because of the content, but because of the high frequencies.

What was the name of Jim butcher's favorite books for magic system? 42:00

oh jimmy b

Is there a forum or somewhere you can recommend where I can ask/discuss time traveller issues when writing my own stuff?

This was a great panel. Though I'm disappointed that an hour was spent on the subject of magic systems without a single mention of WoT's channeling system.

Really? No-one mentioned that Light can be cast on an "object" not a creature (or a creature's eyeball)?!

I think tolkain dues ex machina is by design gandalf is literally an angel type being

What kind of goggles is the guy seated in front of Butcher wearing? And why?

What does Myke Cole said that he got wrong and received tons of emails regarding Special Forces and Army around 17:00? It was kind of fast for my English understanding.

babies rock

"Apocali" is wild!! Hahha

They all look like engineers

the manga Kekkaishi has a great magic system

I'm confused... are there usually babies?

This is my magic system, it’s called L’ndith /ləndiθ/, meaning “stone craft”: -L’ndith can have many potential uses, both necessary (transportation, medicine) and trivial (cosmetics, entertainment), but it is seldom used (usually only by elites and scholars) because it can be dangerous. L’ndith manifests itself through precious crystals, called khridhvel’nt /χriðvɛlənt/, roughly meaning “stones of wizardry” in the tolad /tɔlad/ language. Users summon l’ndith by properly reciting tolad incantations while making physical contact with khridhvel’nt. If used properly, l’ndith can help its users solve problems and give the user powers such as teleportation, healing, disguise, etc. -L’ndith is mostly used by elites and scholars, as they have the resources to obtain khridhvel’nt and learn incantations in tolad. Although extremely rare, a handful of individuals (regardless of class) are predisposed by birth to contain quantities of khridhvel’nt in their blood streams, which enables such individuals, called l’ndrogh /ləndrɔʁ/ (stone-blooded), to use (or be used for) tolad incantations without crystals. -Natural khridhvel’nt is a limited resource which is strictly guarded by henchmen who work for the elites. However, some scholars can secretly synthesize artificial khridhvel’nt by using fragments of natural crystals to convert other matter into it. Elites consider this conversion theft, and make attempts to persecute scholars and l’ndrogh for their usage. L’ndith can become addictive if used multiple times during a short period. For incantations, unrounded vowels require two khridhvel’nt (for height and backness) while rounded vowels require a third for roundedness; length and stress also warrant more. Voiceless consonants require two (for place and manner of articulation) with voice and ejectivity also warranting more. Users can be defeated by simply running out of it or using it incorrectly. -After being used for an incantation, khridhvel’nt quickly sublimate into an odorless, toxic gas which can cause temporary paralysis/vision impairment if inhaled (although this usually isn’t fatal and lasts on average temporarily for ten-15 minutes). Large scale sublimation can cause pollution and collateral damage to ecosystems. L’ndrogh are sought after and are particularly vulnerable to abduction/slavery for their natural abundance of khridhvel’nt. Criminals are often punished with harmful incantations (in addition to the temporary paralysis/vision impairment). Khridhvel’nt can be used to cure debilitating illnesses, but there is a price to pay; that illness must be transferred to another lifeform (usually to the aforementioned criminals). Anti-elitist possession of khridhvel’nt is often severely punished by the elites, who fear class mobility from its usage by lower classes. -Khridhvel’nt were created naturally by k’al’nv’t /kʼalənvət/, roughly meaning “paramount comets”, which impacted and their supernatural minerals became embedded within the ground. Eons later, the Tol tribes settled throughout the rugged landscape which was shaped by craters from k’al’nv’t. As the Tol civilization developed, farmers, paid laborers, slaves, and other workers participated in architecture projects and engineering endeavors, including construction, agriculture and landscaping. One day, according to legend, four Tol slaves were ordered by their master to explore a cave in search of fresh drinking water. One of them brought a torch so they could see through the darkness and deep within the cave, they discovered beautiful rock formations covered in crystals. After one of the slaves yelled in amazement, the unstable ceiling caved in and they were buried in an avalanche of crystals. They were wounded and crystal particles became imbued in their blood streams as a result. Only one of the slaves was still conscious afterwards and made cries for help. To his amazement, the stones surrounding his body sublimated and then he passed out from blood loss and the toxic fumes. Hours later, the four slaves regained consciousness in the cave and miraculously escaped from the pile of crystals. Their language, the Tolad language, was the first language ever uttered within the crystal’s vicinity, which triggered a mutation that only allowed the crystals understand Tolad. There may be undiscovered crystals that haven’t been exposed to Tolad and thus available for another language. They were physiologically altered by the crystals, it fused with their dna and several of their descendants became l’ndrogh from the khridhvel’nt dominant gene. After emerging from the cave, the four men used their new abilities to free themselves from slavery and become a quadrumvirate which would unite the Tol tribes beneath a federation. Their cooperation and even distribution of land to rule within the federation enabled an era of peace and prosperity for the Tol federation, which balkanized after their deaths. During the power vacuum, Tol elites usurped control of separate territories and became fiercely protective of the khridhvel’nt, often warring with each other over the crystals. Scholars were employed by the elites to study the khridhvel’nt so that elites could utilize their power. -Even today, l’ndith is strictly guarded by the elites and their henchmen, although its existence is no secret. Most people among the lower classes could benefit from khridhvel’nt but most wouldn’t dare try to obtain it from fear of severe punishments by the elites. Additionally, Tolad language resources are scarce beyond the elites’ mansions. Elites and scholars have established a khridhvel’nt society to regulate what Tolad words and phrases can be used for incantations. These approved incantations are recorded in a text called t’avdru /tʼavdru/ (meaning “the canon”), which is updated every year. Some rogue scholars illegally practice their own unapproved incantations. Although there is no particular set of clothing that distinguishes users, elites are (needless to say) the most well dressed of the classes and thus, fine linens and robes could possibly indicate usage. However, not all elites can be bothered to learn about khridhvel’nt or how to use it. Additionally, scholars, who are the most familiar with khridhvel’nt, are different from elites in that they generally prefer to stay away from attention. They often disguise themselves among the lower class, which also include some l’ndrogh. The lack of incentive to procure khridhvel’nt or resources to learn the Tolad language has made many lower class citizens indifferent to l’ndith. tl;dr: rich guys use magic crystals to do stuff sometimes.

Subtitles please!

I dislike Kvothe - mostly, but I really like the magic system.

tripod dude. tripod

I thought Wells was Dan Wells. Darn...

A:TLA!!!!!

Love everyone on here whining about the kid crying. It doesn't make the video unwatchable at all.

They bring babies to this!

Why bring a baby to this?

the girl on the mi at the start, they couldn't find a really pretty girl to present, so they found one who people have to look at a few times and think "is... is she...... hm... can't decide if she's good looking or not". but no one told her that, so she's acts like she's fantastic, but still has a MASSIVE self image issue judging by the jokes and how she blushes everytime she tries to tell a pre-written joke and acting like they're all off the top of her air-head. i despise how attractive women in this world find a place in EVERY field now by default as presenters etc (news, sports shows, panels, anything really that has people loooking at is) just because of their looks.

There's a guy sporting a neckbeard sitting in that panel that still considers himself an author. Funny, that.