Fair point. The reason I compare these two softwares together is because Ableton, while being a full DAW, is designed to be fully functional as a live performance instrument. I haven't spent any time in Logic since the last update, but it's probably worth me having a look to see how its been updated. The price point is also a fair observation. After making this video, I experimented with using Gig Performer as well as Camelot. They have a better price point for live performance. But there are Pros of working with logic (Like the insane amount of presets). But I do agree with you, all softwares have their place, though I stay away from Mainstage as much as possible now, since I feel I have found more reliable options.
I know this is 2 years old, but still a very thoughtful high level overview of both pieces of software. I've been using both Mainstage and Ableton for years and you hit the nail on the head. If I'm just a keyboard player in a cover band, I use Mainstage. If I'm running canned tracks I use Ableton. As for Mainstage's stability, it has been glitchy in the past, but my experience with the new Apple Silicone has been great. Maybe they fixed a fair bit of bugs in the recompile or something, but it's been solid for me so far.
It's a $30 piece of software NOW, but in 2010 when I needed it to run a professional musical theatre production on a limited budget, I spent $600 to get it because you could only get it bundled with Logic Pro 9. And like, a year or two later they split the two and drastically dropped the price and ooooh I was pissed. The fact that you can get it for 30$ and access all of the Logic software instruments is absolutely insane. If you work in theatre, Mainstage is the clear option. If you're a keyboard player in the background for a performer, sure, Ableton is fine. But if Prince and Madonna could run their arena concerts off of Mainstage shortly after it came out, it's good enough for me! Also as far as the reliability of Mainstage, you MUST make sure that you're not creating multiple instances of effects, instruments, etc. And also that you're working with a decently-specced machine. I recently did a one-man band version of Sondheim's "Pacific Overtures", with a lot of ethnic instrument software instruments, and ran it off a 2010 MacBook Pro, with (relatively) no problems. Ableton is great, but Apple has said that Logic and Mainstage are loss leaders, their whole goal is to get people using them. And nothing like Mainstage existed over 10 years ago, it's opened so many possibilities. And the fact that you can get it for $30 is astounding, and still pisses me off, ha.
@@simonpetersog that's a fair point...at the moment I am using a MacBook Pro from 2010 with a broken trackpad and without a battery...I agree that Macs are generally more expensive than a Windows laptop (though that depends entirely on the specs of your laptop). I got my first MacBook Pro in 2006, and paid for it on a payment plan from a local authorized Mac seller, not the Apple store...it took me quite some time to pay off, and in the meantime I also bought the aforementioned $600 version of Logic...and then my apartment was broken into on day, and my MBP was stolen. I am not a slave to Mac products; I'm typing this on a Google Pixel phone...when I started using DAWs, it was on a PC that I built myself from the ground up, starting with N-Tracks Pro, Sony Acid, and eventually Cubase and Nuendo. Those are all still great programs. At the time, way back when, to use ProTools, you had to have a dedicated card in your PC. Then they came out with the MBox...but why would I get that if Cubase did all the same exact things? My sincere main reason for switching to Mac in 2006 was because at that time all the software I wanted to use, AND the Apogee Duet audio interface I lusted after were all exclusively for Mac. I didn't have an iPhone and I don't think iPads even existed yet. I have often considered buying a cheap Microsoft Surface, just so that I can run certain other programs. Ultimately though for running live theatre shows, nothing even comes close to Mainstage for its simplicity, adaptability and the fact that it comes preloaded with THOUSANDS of virtual instruments. Until someone comes up with something as good for Windows, I won't be jumping ship anytime soon. Also, because I'm registered as a freelance musician for tax purposes, things like music software and even the laptop itself can be considered business expenses, and written off. Ultimately, you have to decide what's most important to achieving the task you want to achieve. The cheapest MBP nowadays is ridiculously more powerful than the 17" behemoth I lugged around in 2006-10. Another inexpensive way of getting into Macs is through a Mac Mini...you add whatever screen, mouse, keyboard you prefer. It's interesting that Apple doesn't advertise the existence of Mac Mini whatsoever...but all things considered, it's almost as portable as a laptop...
@@simonpetersog furthermore, even if you have a Windows laptop, if you want to run ProTools, that's gonna run you $599US for the standard version, plus $99 every year afterwards, which is a whole pile of bullshit. Ableton will cost you $449 for the basic version, but $749 for the suite. Cubase is somewhere around $550 and charges for extra features...you could spend some of that money on getting a Mac laptop that comes preloaded with GarageBand (they all do) , and only spend $199US on Logic Pro X. Also, with the possible exception of Reason 11, Logic comes with WAY more built-in software instruments, EQ/mastering plugins, loops and sound effects. I don't mean to sound like a Schill for Apple, because I like using other DAWs also, but there's just no competition as far as value for money with what is included in the price of Logic Pro X.
Hi, thanks for your videos about the mainstage to ableton transition. I would be so happy to have all those Ableton functions which go deeper than mainstage, like Midi looping, recording, more channels, more effects... Sadly i couldnt find the following info: is there a way to use Ableton, together with a controller, that perfectly reproduces the FLOW of having a Boss Rc505 with Mainstage in front of you? Sadly I didnt find any sufficient solution for: 1) how to have a nice overview-list of many many patches like in mainstage? (i want to load my favorite VSTs like Omnisphere, Kontakt, Massive, ... into Ableton and have a nice overview-list of all my favorite presets, split into "lead", "pad", "percussion", "drums", "bass", "noise/sweep" etc... and being able to load any of them conveniently just like out of the list in mainstage.. An additional feature for that huge list would be: "freezing=unloading" some unused VSTs which are especially large in RAM or cpu usage, to save resources, if such "freeze/unfreeze" thing is possible in Ableton) 2) i need haptical and optical Feedback for Looping, just like the Rc505 does: An overview about at least 5 Channels, showing me a Loop-button for startrecord/overdub/play with visual feedback for each channel! And visual feedback about the progress of each loop, showing every channel at the same Time... just like the Rc505 does in its simple way with the LED ring around each button... I would pay for a solution which enables me to use Ableton+a controller exactly like Mainstage+a Rc505.
Thanks for reaching out! I will do my best to answer these questions, however, using Ableton as a live performance driver requires a slightly different mindset than Mainstage. They are not a 1 to 1 comparison. In some cases, there is a perceived loss of functionality with Ableton in comparison to Mainstage, but in reality it is just a shift of perspective. 1) You can create an overview of your sounds using an instrument rack and dummy clips. Here is an example ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XD7HBwzrdnw.html It's not exactly the same as Mainstage, but the heart behind it is the same. 2)You can get feedback for looping in two ways. Looped clips, be it midi or audio, will show you a small circle at the bottom of the channels trip indicating its position in the loop. (much smaller than on your physical looper) But it is still there. Using the looper device, it will show you it's position by lighting up squares, meant to indicate the beats. If I were building this set up using only ableton + a controller, I would built a list of my patches in channel strips using a chain selector. I would use several looper devices on a send/return track. And I would have buttons set to send my audio to the appropriate looper at the appropriate times. So if you wanted 5 loopers, send A B C D E would go to corresponding sends. This would allow you to "test" loops by recording clips on the channel, and "record" them by sending them to your sends. If I were building this myself, I would probably use a launchpad as my controller - depending on how robust the set was, I might use one in user mode, and one in default mode to achieve functionality seamlessly. This ofcourse, would depend on how you set it up. With Ableton there is often more than one way. If you want help setting this up, You could book a lesson with me. bit.ly/LKPersonalCoaching One final question - If you love the RC505 so much, what would be the main reason for navigating away from it? Once you have a good answer to that question, you will have much insight to how to set up ableton to not just mimick, but improve on your looping set up.
@@LiveKeyboardist Thank you so much for answering me in detail! I will look into it as soon as i have free time! Your last question really made me go "wow", because it's true: why move away from something i love so much and already have a nice flow with? I guess i will look into that, also, to understand more clearly which additional features i wish for my loopingsetup.
Hello my friend, huge question - I use Ableton. Because I use it to play live. I have the a suite. I am truly thinking Logic X May be a better fit based on the sounds and synths. If I were to switch to Logic, does MainStage allow me to use Logic X the way I use Ableton playing out live? As an instrument with backing tracks?
Thank you for this! I love main stage, but it is at times a headache for me. I never use the library’s. All of my patches are from third party Libraries
Great video, thank you! I'm wondering - how is the lag/latency with your setup? Seems to me like your setup has an unusually quick response time, compared to other live MIDI/USB setups i've seen.
No noticeable lag at all. My best guess add to why this is, it’s because my patches are spread across many channel strips, with the audio bussed together. Very quick very solid.
Do you think some combination of MainStage and Logic Pro X would be anything comparable to Ableton Live for live performance, or do they just not work together for that kind of job?
The short answer is, I think trying to run main stage and logic pro at the same time is probably not a good call. That being said, I think you probably could make it happen with some creative thinking. The reason that ableton is preferable for running tracks is because it gives you the ability to jump around if you need to. If you’re not going to jump around, then you could really playback your tracks using any type of software and it would be fine. I do think you’re on the right track though. If those are two tools that you have then trying to come up with a way to use them is not the worst thing in the world. I have actually been working with Ableton and gig performer simultaneously and have gotten some nice results with that. Logic is built for recording and mixing, and ableton has the live performance in the back of its mind at any stage of a project, which is what gives it the upper leg. I hope this is insightful, if you have any questions I’m happy to discuss it with you further
Hello. Talking from Portugal. Iam a keyboard player. I have ableton and mainstage. Need your help. How can i change patches with sustain pedal, in ableton, without get stuck on last patch? I use 8 midi tracks with vst instruments, so, when iam using a pad or other sound, iam using a sustain pedal pressed when change pach, and the last pach continues playing, its a mess. With mainstage this didnt happens. CAn you help me? I love the stability of ableton but cannot undestand this solution for my problem. Congrats for you videos
This dude works for GigPerformer. He won't help with Mainstage. The whole vid is biased thorward GigPerformer. Hope ypu've found tge solution to your problem.
sir do have a set up service because i installed newest driver for sound card once u instal it will send signal to midi track in indicator and stop ableton
Sounds like Ableton is also for people who would rather spend $100-700 for their laptop they already own than drop another $1500 on an adequate Macbook Air.
This was very useful, thank you. Glad I wasn't imagining how Mainstage depletes my resources during a performance. I should not be having an easier time performing live with GarageBand than with the software made specifically for that.
Yes! Happy to affirm your suspicion. Also worth checking out Gig Performer 3. Great option if your not producing or running tracks. Also plays nice with Logic Pro if you like the Apple Music production layout.
Just to confirm, you mean to mix a live band while running tracks correct? I would say yes. But you’ll want to be intentional about how you set it up. Both to be mindful of resources and to ease of mixing and control.
@@LiveKeyboardist Exactly! The idea is that we run tracks, have the input from the whole band (keyboard not midi, guitars, 2vx and drums) and do the in ear monitor mixes (4) in the same machine (using an audio interface /MOTU 828)
I did this on one project. For in ear in mixes I used sends so each person could create their own mix. It was a bit trial and error, but we got it to work. Keep in mind you will still need to “mix”. I’d advise native ableton devices for that to keep it light.
Using a i5 notebook do you think there will be problems with latency? (using Ableton live on stage). And do you know a midi controller for Ableton (like Behringer x-touch mini) that is audio interface at the same time?
Ableton runs extrememly light, my guess is that you won't have an issue with latency. Be intentional with how you set it up, but I would say you should be good to go. As far as a MIDI keyboard with a built in audio interface, I haven't spend enough time to recommend one specifically. I love Arturia keyboards for their feel. Arturia Essentials 88 is reasonably priced and feels great to play. As for an interface, it depends what you will need to do. If you are planning to run tracks, you will want (IMO) more than two outputs. I love FocusRight products.There are links in this video to my reccomendations for gear. If you are just playing keys you can get something that has only two outputs. I hope this helps!
Check out Gig Performer as well! Also a really exceptional options, that I LOVE using. Runs even lighter, but a slightly different feature set. Great for live keys. I have started doing a lot of my live playing using this sofware. Ableton for tracks and for very complex things, Gig Performer for most everything else. Video below showing how it works. If you are wise in how you set up your live performance set, you will be totally fine. I've got some videos on how I do it, and I also offer private coaching if you need further assistance. Happy to help. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2zWHRmOeYTY.html
Great video cheers! I find mainstage super easy to use and much easier to get started with and also way more resources available for mainstage But both are awesome tools! :)
@@nielswil Uhmm, I don't see any support ticket with your name or email address, I don't see anything recent in the community forums and nothing with both your name and UVI --- so who exactly have you asked about this? For the record, I've used GP with UVI Falcon (paid version of Workstation) for years with no issues. There's no way for one application to shut down another one unless there's something wrong with a driver that's running at kernel level.
