Make Copper Formate (for Making Copper Conductive Ink)

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In this video we make copper formate, a useful precursor to copper conductive ink.
We simply dissolve 65g of copper sulfate in 250mL of water and 33g of sodium carbonate in 150mL of water. Then we mix the two together. Copper carbonate hydroxide precipitates and we filter that off. Then we react the copper carbonate hydroxide with formic acid to create copper formate.
Copper formate has the useful property that it decomposes into copper metal (along with carbon dioxide and hydrogen) when heated. The copper produced this way isn't well bonded and not very conductive. But in upcoming videos additives may be added to improve the quality of the product.
Related videos:
Silver conductive ink: • Make Conductive Silver...
Copper sulfate: • Make Sulfuric Acid (Co...
Formic acid: • Make Formic Acid
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Опубликовано:

26 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 155

@NurdRage 6 лет назад

No, this is NOT blue meth.

@Ismail-xq9ry 6 лет назад

NurdRage Obviously.....

@rakinkazi9780 6 лет назад

NurdRage Demonetized!

@invetegon4596 6 лет назад

I'll be the judge of that. Here give me a bite.

@AspentheGuardian 6 лет назад

NurdRage can you add 91% alcohol to fuel?

@Ismail-xq9ry 6 лет назад

NurdRage Nice video sir

@rakinkazi9780 6 лет назад

As a 1st year electrical engineering student, I appreciate how some of your videos bridge the gap between chemistry and electronics.

@NurdRage 6 лет назад

Thanks for watching!

@normanbenjamin9739 6 лет назад

Yes me thinks there working with the stuff that reads the though wave! There just not telling us! But that is old tec. from the master race before us ! Look at Billy Mire stuff , the sound that ship is making is the sound of the colours . We know because we can hear the colours now ! Ect .. eyeborg

@yaboi9156 6 лет назад

Thank you for making me interested in chemistry

@PlasmaHH 6 лет назад

PCB related chemistry, a lot of electronic hobbyists will be happy getting more of it

@eatcookie8197 6 лет назад

True, but the final result didn't look much promising. I think normal wire and rivets will still do a better job.

@edgeeffect 6 лет назад

Being much more of an electronics nurd than a chemistry nurd... these episodes are always welcome.

@JlerchTampa 6 лет назад

You are a scholar and a gentleman and I enjoy your content. I am very much looking forward to the through hole plating experiment!

@puppypi9668 3 года назад

Did it ever get made?

@isaacthedestroyerofstuped7676 6 лет назад

For a split second, I got formate and fulminate mixed up, so I got really confused why you wanted to use it as a conductive ink!

@S730SD 6 лет назад

Fulminate based ink? You could write an explosive best seller.

@Unmannedair 6 лет назад

Ouch. That would be a very dangerous pen. It might be mightier than a sword without even writing anything.

@svnhddbst8968 6 лет назад

if nothing else, watching a really striking blue turn to copper is really cool.

@dexasdexas3784 6 лет назад

Thanks for the information. As electronics engineer, and also a PCB maker, i can say that this isnt suitable for Through hole plating, because holes has to be plated in around 35um - 50um thickness of really conductive metal (such as silver, copper, solder or other materials), but holes has to be "though", because you will stick component leads through them. Also, not reliable, but still, sience is in the 1st place :)

@reishinsama 6 лет назад

The auto stirring tool is godlike

@ElectraFlarefire 6 лет назад

Look forward to seeing your future experiments down this path.

@somnathpatra6858 6 лет назад

the way you made the formate of copper can be used to prepare almost every salt of copper by starting with cuso4 and the acid of the corresponding salt. I personally made copper chloride through this way. Also if fine cu powder is needed for being used as a catalyst this formate salt works great. love it

@walterbunn280 2 года назад

So this has some interesting applications. Copper Formate might be able to dissolve chitosan. Usually, you use acetic acid to dissolve chitosan after sodium hydroxide digestion, but, if the pH in this is close, that could substitute and yield a copper bearing chitosan fiber. If it does, this has the potential to open up regenerated rayon, through cuprammonium rayon, into copper laced conductive fabrics. There exists stuff to that effect already.

@nunyabisnass1141 6 лет назад

Thats the problem with this series of metals. Though they can form cohesive structures with themselves, they tend to want to form particles rather than a plating without some sort of extra charge to guide their formation. There are a few things you could try, like charging the surface to be plated and dragging the cathode over the surface, but thats no different from standard electroplating. The other thing could be is to manipulate Cu ions in solution, let it dry and reducing them by dipping the surface in a reducing agent. The last techinque that comes to mind is to acid etch the surface so the copper particle settle into the micrscopic valleys. Getting copper to bond with itself as a solid without electrocatylitic techniques as you can with the mirror demo isn't anything I've ever heard of, and may require much slower decomposition rates than seen in the video, but is still likely to be too porous and brittle to be useful. If you can think of a way to form stronger bonds between the copper particles, this decomposition process has some promise, otherwise i think its just a novelty.

@boelwerkr 6 лет назад

I noticed that in a reducing environment copper cold-welds quite well, so connecting the particles up with an external force could be possible. But that's hard to do in an application as ink. But it also forms alloys with zinc or tin quite well. Maybe this is a way to connect up the copper particles. Creating a two stage process. First creating the copper and then fusing it together with an other meal. This would reduce the conductivity but it would be possible to solder on it. Also an other reaction comes to mind. First creating iron particles and then reacting these with copper sulfate, to create copper and iron sulfate. This will make the particle "swell" slightly make it possible to connect up the different particles. Also a problem is to bind the copper to the underlying surface. To make copper hold onto the surface it has to form a continuous layer, otherwise it will disconnect from it. It's not an easy problem to solve....

@stamasd8500 6 лет назад

I wonder if a mix of copper formate and silver formate would work better.

@boelwerkr 6 лет назад

@stamasd Not sure it would work. The copper could force the decomposing of the silver formate. Instable chemicals are prone to decomposing in a impure environment. But my chemistry knowledge is not good enough to state that as fact.

@stamasd8500 6 лет назад

I think there may be a way to find out. What could that be, hmm...

@boelwerkr 6 лет назад

I'm reading up on mixtures of salts of formic acid, and it looks to me that silver and copper would form a complex. But i have no idea what that would mean for the forming of a contentious layer compared to irregular crystals while decomposing. Copper tend to build 3 Dimensional structures and this is the basic problem as far as i understand it. While searching i found this: www.nature.com/articles/srep45150 It describes the effects of mixing copper nano particles with copper formate to create better conductive incs. In addition reacting tin with copper format could produce such fine particles. Sadly while decomposing tin formate the tin oxydizes. (the same for zinc formate, as i understand it) Even in a oxygen free environment. I don't know of the top of my head an organic compound that decomposes at the same temperature as the formates to create an reducing environment strong enough to suppress the oxidation.

@garycard1456 6 лет назад

Rant: consider the dedication and passion chemplayer put into his hobby chemistry videos, only to be shut down by RU-vid! Yet, dumb and pointless pseudoscientific videos featuring molten salt/aluminum poured onto oils or candies, or red hot knives cutting through everyday objects (e.g. plastic toys) with emission of toxic fumes, are allowed to stay on RU-vid. It is utterly outrageous!

@kokeskokeskokes 5 лет назад

I think I synthesised it. I was dissolving Al in CuSO4, decanting Cu particles. They turned dark upon drying = oxide. So I tossed some formic acid 85% in and got substance of beutiful azure color. Much nicer than what I see in video, actually. But that may be due to camera or monitor or both.

@shayhan6227 3 года назад

Can you try adding a tiny bit of ascorbic acid to the solution to see if it will help the copper thin film form correctly. This would be ground breaking if it can be done because there are not many ways to chemically deposit conductive ultra thin films onto a non conductive substrate like glass. Only way I know is to either use the silver mirror forming Technqiue or to have an expensive PVD or CVD machine. First surface mirrors and ultra thin films are some of the pillars humanity stands on today and it's would be great to have a way to cheaply create such thin film using household equipment.

@onogrirwin 6 лет назад

My hotplate stirrer will get here day after tomorrow :) I'm pretty pumped.

@myth-termoth1621 5 лет назад

Also, i have seen Robert Murray-Smith make copper powder using vitamin C as a reducing agent.

@Tasyaeliska 3 месяца назад

that's interesting! may i know the reference for the procedure? the journals maybe?

@robertanderson8613 5 лет назад

Awesome video could you do a show on making a copper strike solution . I've also heard of woods plating liquid. I'm looking for a way to nickle plate aluminium without having to zincate the aluminium first thanks for the info

@moldovanhoratiu8333 5 лет назад

Thank's I'll give this a try (perhaps I will mess around with some solvent to precipitate it out because I'm impatient to wait for weeks to evaporate) maybe you can give it a try and cover the copper (II) hypophosphite since the literature is scarce and from H3PO2 (50% aq.) and the above prepared Cu(OH)2CO3 I get a dark brown precipitate that I expect to be metallic particles due to the reductive properties of the acid (which isn't forbidden here and I have enough of, though salts of it are missing from my collection). All I found was methods to prepare it in solution from Ca++ salt to be used for electronics... I couldn't even find info on the color of the salt which I intend to use as a catalyst additive. Keep up the good work!

@zanpekosak2383 6 лет назад

Awsome! I made this when I was 12 but I jusz added 80% formic acid straight to copper sulphate. It is insoluble in the little amount of water used so when formed it just percipitated out.

@pietrotettamanti7239 6 лет назад

AirsoftSlo But the reaction yield is much lower

@zanpekosak2383 6 лет назад

Pietro Tettamanti true but still it felt like a fking big accoplisment starting out with chem. Later I stopped with this stuff cause i wqs doing waay to dangerous stuff.

@shreyaspraneshtingu 6 лет назад

Heisenberg would be proud!

@DUIofPhysics 6 лет назад

Neat! Is there much that can be done to make lower resistance tracks? Have you also considered trying your hand with Graphene? There are a lot of videos about making it. Would be interesting to see a chemist's twist.

@ergohack 6 лет назад

I've wondered whether copper formate could be used for through-hole plating. I know there is a way to do it at home which involves thermal decomposition of copper hypophosphite. It would be nice to be able to do the same thing with copper formate.

@SandeepKumar-jj7zi 11 месяцев назад

so copper hypophosphite forms better plating than copper formate?

@chriswilson4774 6 лет назад

Great video!

@Jerrytheman9 5 лет назад

maybe if you added some other copper salt to it, the formate can reduce the excess copper and form a more solid ink

@reerasvarghese9686 3 года назад

I think is Calcium carbonate and copper sulphate reaction is better than naco3 and cuso4 and calcium sulphate to insoluble

@teekotrain6845 2 года назад

Did I make copper formate?... I had some colloidal silver I made. I made it with distilled water and it was the only distilled water I had available so I used it to make an electroplating solution for copper by first heating about one part baking soda to five parts water then using that to submerge two copper parts in attached with alligator clips with about a 5 amp power supply. One copper piece turned black, and one had the blueish greenish crystals I scraped off and filtered from solution. Is that copper formate?? Sorry I am trying to figure out a lot right now and never went to a proper school.

@thenewbgamer6416 4 года назад

I think the formic acid did not react because you had too much water and the water might have reduced the concentration of the formic acid.

@prettygirl6146 2 года назад

if it produces CO2, then why doesn't it react with decomposed copper instantly and make copper carbonate?

@luisff7030 6 лет назад

maybe if the copper formate dry in inert gas (example: argon or nitrogen) the conductivity and strength would be better.

@aetius31 6 лет назад

I always thought that thermal decomposition would give CuO, interesting

@6alecapristrudel 6 лет назад

The formate ion is in itself a weak reducing agent, that's why it gives copper metal. Higher carboxylic acids can also do that (acetate), but they also carbonize in the process, formate just gives off CO2 and water.

@rellwithsauce1171 6 лет назад

Smart. That's the only thing I can say

@nigeldolman954 5 лет назад

Why not decompose under a stream of N2 gas to prevent oxidation.

@cllow2020 5 лет назад

Is there a way to forming Sodium hypophosphite monohydrate from sodium phosphate ?

@anttikettunen5112 6 лет назад

You could add some graphite powder to the formate solution to make a suspension and then heating all up. You would get some nucleation sites and the graphite being conductive on its own could help coat and bridge the gap in between individual copper metal bits. Maybe a bit of TiO2 for similar reasons. In both cases it would not take all that much to get the desired result, maybe a few tenths of a percent to a few percent by weight max.

@Keshaire 6 лет назад

God damn it I saw the thumbnail and thought Nile broke bad.

@inkrpen 6 лет назад

Nice camera!

@ThePeterDislikeShow 4 года назад

Can you use pennies before 1982 as your source of copper or would the other metals in the alloy contaminate it too much?

@matushonko7223 3 года назад

one question: as the primary problem is (i assume) the carbon dioxide generated, coldn't mixing it with CaO make an inorganic epoxy of sorts? (CuCOOH + CaO -> Cu + CaCO3 + H2)

@jcims 6 лет назад

I don't know why it struck me in this video but I never really think of the vital role water plays in chemistry. I guess because I can drink it, I don't really think of it as a solvent or otherwise chemically interesting. Do you think the boiling action of the solution created the voids in the resulting copper? Would it be possible to evaporate it then heat it (not sure if the heat is necessary for it to convert to metallic copper)

@UnitSe7en 6 лет назад

Revel in your existence as a chemical reaction.

@user-py9cy1sy9u 6 лет назад

You need to sinter copper particles to increase conductivity

@monkofmayhem1373 6 лет назад

Would it be more usefull to use as a soft metal alloy i.e. add tin to improve the conductivity of the metal instead of what id imagine is just stacked layers of large copper sheets kinda like paint.

@alirezakhz 6 лет назад

i used hypophosphite forwomething like this

@t1world767 2 года назад

👍👍👍👍

@eatcookie8197 6 лет назад

How is the conductivity after also using the tin plating process?

@sarchlalaith8836 6 лет назад

Did you ever do the vijaeo on the process of making mini circuit boards what for the angry pixies as you said electrical enginerds use?

@petkotzvetkov6528 6 лет назад

Great!

@pirateman1966 6 лет назад

I have lots of enamel (magnet) wire in bits and pieces. Is there a cheap and simple process to make a pure solid copper nuggets through chemistry/electrolysis? I was thinking of dissolving it in battery acid and then electroplate a pure copper wire until its nice and thick. any ideas?

@kikol.5002 6 лет назад

Hi sir, can you do some more simple inorganic chemistry videos? 😁

@annaoaulinovna 5 лет назад

i tested formaldehyde way HCHO(aq)+ NaOH → Na(HCO2)+ H2 than 2CuSO4+4Na(HCO2) → 2Cu(HCO2)2+2Na2SO4

@SandeepKumar-jj7zi 2 года назад

the equations are not balanced

@shayhan6227 6 лет назад

Is it possible to make metalized mylar films at home?

@camerongraves8398 6 лет назад

Is it possible to use the copper formate as a kind of filler for the silver? And if so how well would it conduct electricity

@yoloswaggins2161 6 лет назад

Make more factorio vids.

@NurdRage 6 лет назад

i don't do math.

@rDnhey 6 лет назад

Great

@danielf.7151 6 лет назад

Does anyone know why the copper carbonate hydroxide looks green even though it has Cu2+ ions?

@cllow2020 5 лет назад

Can use ammonium hydroxide instead of formic acid ?

@6alecapristrudel 6 лет назад

I've been playing around with trying to make something like that for a while now, without success. How small are the Cu particles? Can they be suspended in water or acetone, or are they too big and settle out too fast? Usually commercial conductive inks use incredibly tiny metal particles suspended in a solvent along with some kind of binder. Finding the right binder and how much of it is where I'm stuck. Either the particles don't stick together, or the binder is too much and there is no conductivity at all.

@renatobueno7178 6 лет назад

try some polishing in this rusty copper.

@myth-termoth1621 5 лет назад

I have used the carbonate - copper sulphate reaction to try to make cupramonium hydroxide cellulose solvent, but i found that adding carbonate to copper sulphate i would produce different coloured precipitates on different runs. I believe that the product is a mixture of basic copper sulphate (CuOH)2SO4, copper carbonate CuCO3, basic copper carbonate (CuOH)2CO3, and possibly copper hydroxide as well. What mix of products one gets seems to vary quite a bit with small variations in temperature or concentration. As an alternative i electrolysed solid copper anodes in carbonate solution to eliminate the possibility of making basic copper sulphate.

@philip9487 6 лет назад

NurdRage i have a question for you could i use this in a copper platting setup?

@nanolith 2 года назад

Did you ever discover anything interesting in this area? I was looking for through-hole plating ideas recently, and I remembered this video. I know you shifted your attention to sodium metal shortly after this, but I'm curious if you uncovered anything before you moved on?

@SandeepKumar-jj7zi 11 месяцев назад

so you have found a way for through hole plating?

@nanolith 11 месяцев назад

@@SandeepKumar-jj7zi The best process I have found so far is to paint the entire board -- including holes -- in a conductive spray paint, then electroplate the board in a copper sulfate solution. There are plenty of YT videos on this process.

@kickassNK 6 лет назад

Try 2 or 3 layers of the ink?

@fischX 6 лет назад

I would also love to have some good candidates for viscous conducter besides mercury

@Landogarner83 6 лет назад

Galinstan? Or whatever other mix of gallium, indium and tin works at the temperature you want it to. Such alloys are available as "liquid metal thermal compound". Gallium and indium have a tendency to stick to glass however so the oldfashioned tilt switches would not work :(

@pietrotettamanti7239 6 лет назад

fischX Alloys are poor conductors usually

@ozgurkaygisiz1562 Год назад

CuSO4(s)+H2O+Al(s) = Cu(s) + AlSO4(aq) + H2O

@twocvbloke 6 лет назад

That's such a nice shade of blue, matches my state of mind, but the doc put my pill dosage up so I'm good... :P

@user-ux4gu2lh8c 6 лет назад

...okie

@nRADRUS 6 лет назад

rusted layer before produced ? ))) try to make something more neutrally )

@garethdean6382 6 лет назад

Could we get a video of this done in a police station? To ensure it's not meth? I'd like to see a copper forming copper formate.

@barryfennell9723 6 лет назад

In the future multi-function 3d printers will build replicates of itself. Not only the structure but the electrical motor and printed circuits and all from recycled material.

@THEBIGMEOW 5 лет назад

How much for 1 gram?

@dustinsmith8341 6 лет назад

Please make the video regardless of if you succeed!

@sarahhoward9081 3 года назад

Check out robert murray Smith. He did a successful video on this 6 years ago.

@000bHd000 6 лет назад

Copper mirror?

@pietrotettamanti7239 6 лет назад

Can't be done

@rakinkazi9780 6 лет назад

I think thoisoi mare a video about it

@TechsScience 6 лет назад

Aren't the views affected these days?

@Aereto 6 лет назад

The one thing views are affected by: SCIENCE!

@social3ngin33rin 6 лет назад

fucking bad@ss if you can make it close to the silver ink

@adriannatour 6 лет назад

dr. manhattanate

@nomohakon6257 6 лет назад

a comment

@dizingof 6 лет назад

Overkill and not so on par with the application you want it to be: i.e: conducting. I use a simple Zinc spray on non conductive substrate then after the layer dries i dip in Copper sulfate for a "Single Displacement Reaction" - now the entire substrate is conductive and ready to be electroplated at once. not just areas close to the cathode. Simple & low cost. check out my Metallizing 3D printed plastic models on twitter hashtag #HomeElectroForming

@yeraysantanaaday6827 3 года назад

hey...take the potato out of the mouth!!!

@luiscanamarvega 6 лет назад

WTH i though this channel was dead!!

@darkmf666 6 лет назад

Would it perhaps work better(e.g. form a better conductive path) if you were to let the evaporation occur more slowly? I could imagine the speed of copper formation could influence crystal size and therefore the conductivity between the crystals/pieces...

@shanewhite352 3 года назад

were you successful with a better solution?

@dav1dbone 6 лет назад

At the heating stage would keeping the copper formate tetra hydrate under an inert gas improve conductivity by yielding a purer product, ie is oxygen a factor with the poor bonding. Also would the conductivity improve by UV sintering of the final copper product

@wanderingzanzey2126 6 лет назад

Vapour deposition with CO2 laser etching is probably the most controllable solution for at home hobbyists. That is.. if they build the units themselves already for other projects. Really interesting reaction, could this also be used as an additive in photonic cintering inks? A Xenon bulb might produce enough energy to decompose the solution into copper?

@nunyabisnass1141 4 года назад

Im wondering that the problem is that silver crystaises much more easily than copper under these conditions, leading to a more structurally consistent product. Perhaps a ratio of the two copper, and silver reagents can be mixed so you get an intespersion of copper in the silver, though i don't know what if any advantagenthst may have if successful.

@svenp6504 6 лет назад

I guess the problem is that copper particles at 200C are going to oxidize very rapidly, the opposite of what happens to silver... Maybe you could use some organic that will act as a reducing agent as (or after) the copper forms... like how acetone reduces hot copper. Also, I'm curious how a mixture of this and the silver diamine formate would fare. LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!

@l4d2160 6 лет назад

I rarely understand what's happening but it's still cool to watch. Maybe someday I'll try making copper sulfate crystals as a display piece.

@jamesg1367 6 лет назад

Did you try precipitating a second layer the same way? Might improve conductivity...

@Unmannedair 6 лет назад

That's brilliant and helpful! I'm going to try this myself! This might actually fix a problem in my research. I'll credit you if it does. Thx.

@demonsheadshot8086 6 лет назад

wouldnt copper oxalate thermally decompose into copper metal, similar to iron oxalate?

@simontillson482 6 лет назад

Cool. I've been hoping you might do a reactive copper ink, thanks so much for this.

@zock4419 6 лет назад

Since you have a phd in anorganic chemistry I want to ask you a question: There a two types of copper carbonate hydroxide: one is more blueisch the other is more greenish the internet sasys that the blue type is actually Cu3(CO3)2(OH)2 and the green Cu2CO3(OH)2 when you heat the blue type in water it forms the green and my experiments show the same result but when making the carbonate it is blue all the time. is it just stöchiometry or something else which effects the outcome?

@christianvn1 6 лет назад

Zock4 The blue colour could be from additional water molecules of crystallization, since the Cu(II) hexa-aqua complex is also blue in colour. When the hydrated form is heated, the extra water is driven off and this could cause the colour change. Many water-insoluble metal salts and oxides can have hydrated forms.