Goo video Dan I worked at a ArchitectualWoodworking company for over 25 years and one of the owners was excellent at creating internal systems on how we built and installed everything we made one of those systems was using 1/4” inch bolts for most of our jigs and machine set ups including T tracks the benefit of that was if you stocked the 1/4X20 bolts in every size in stock and we did you were almost always guaranteed to make it work in house that cut down on costly down time and having to run around town trying to find all the hardware
wow, the imperial system seems so difficult to learn when i hear other people use it. Much respect for those people that are able to work with that system.
LOL. There's plusses and minuses. For instance, 1/8" in decimal is .125. What's half of .125? I'd have to think. But fractionally, you just double the bottom number, so half of 1/8" is 1/16". Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not deal with fractions, but like I said, there are at least a few plusses.
One disadvantage of using wooden t-tracks is that when locking a bolt down, you can only apply as much pressure as the wood will allow. Oak could split, and ply can separate from the other plies. This is why aluminum is better. That said, if you never need more than what the wood will support... great! But I wouldn't use it for say a drill press, or band saw jig, which might need to really stay put. Some useful info here, and I'll definitely be looking into the router bits!
Thanks for the comment, and I think I pretty-much agree with what you said. I will say, however, that the ones on my drill press still work, and they haven't broken yet. I can hear some cracking noises if I really tighten down the clamps, but they still work, more than a year later. Knock on wood. 😄
12/1/2020 USA Grandpa Bill: I'm new here Sir, and after seeing just one of your videos I subscribed. Your speed, careful selection of material, and video prowess have made my viewing and learning experience pleasant and productive. Your voice, appearance (lower half of face), and methods of presentation make me think you are a principal of a school and have written lesson plans hidden under the boards. Thank you for being on RU-vid, for the energy and effort you put into these well-timed instructional lessons. I admire your work, and I'm here to stay. (Unless you suspend me for smoking in the garage. -Bill
LOL, and thanks, Bill! And as long as you don't smoke in *my* garage, I don't mind at all. 😄 I'm a retired software engineer, and I spent a lot of time writing documentation for other developers, so this really isn't anything new for me (except for the video part). I'm thrilled you're enjoying it, and welcome aboard!
Careful with the Yoniko 3/8" bits. The head should be 1/16" smaller. If you get dust on your shaft and think you are bottoming out, the head will twist through the slot.. The 3/8" shaft has a 9/16 wrench head and will twist right at 5/8" in a wrench, so, softer wood for sure it will twist. Find another bit for 3/8, or back up the fence 1/8" and make two passes with the 1/4" bit.. 1/4" does all I need though 99% of the time in a wooden track. Enjoy your videos. Thanks.
I find it easier on the router if I make initial grooves using a circular saw then follow up with the t-track bit. Stay safe and all the best from Australia.
Yes, you are indeed an engineer. THANKS! Your engineering background makes your top down (completed project shown 1st) presentation great! Plus I like the long list of links you post for parts. Keep it up! We need more engineers making woodworking videos. I myself got my BSEE from NCSU in '77. Yes that far back :)
Thanks for the great comment! Technically, I'm a software engineer, but it's the same mindset. I got my first programming job in 1979, so I suspect we're close in age. The links are actually "affiliate" links, which means I earn a small amount on each purchase (at no extra expense to you), so being thorough is as much for my benefit as yours. 😛 And yes, I prefer to show everything first. I realize it means I'll get some people who drop out early, but I hate it when videos make me wait to the end to see what the video is really about. I try to make a video I would want to watch. For better or worse! 😂 Thanks again.
laughing at "programming", they call themselves developers nowadays don't they. That explains why you are very thorough in your tutorials...each instruction a line of code :-) thanks for all your efforts Dan.
A different kind of comment for you. Your Photoshop simulation of the t-slots installed on your drill press table is pretty good from a perspective point of view. The right side t-slot is spot on in fact, but the left not so good. If you are using a Windows PC then Lazy Nezumi Pro has a preset called Vanishing lines that lets you set rulers to existing perspective so you can match composited elements to it. It is an absolute god-send for illustrators. It's the best $35 you'll ever spend when it comes to Photoshop plug-ins. It's still doable if you have a Mac. Bert Monroy, for instance uses a Mac, and what he does is map a pair of connected paths to the existing perspective to find the vanishing point, and move the outer ends of the paths to create guides. When transforming to match perspective, always make the layer a Smart Object - this keeps the handles in the original corners for if you want to fine tune. BTW I am an Adobe Community Professional and you can find me on the Adobe forums. Good luck.
Thanks for the information. FYI, I was using the term "photoshop" as a generic term - I actually did it in GIMP. And for videos like this, "close enough" is plenty good enough. 😄
Really enjoyed this. Really helpful because that t track is so expensive. Saw one table, the gut had close to $400 worth of track. Six intersections and a few straight pieces. Ridiculous.
Thanks, and I'm glad it helped. By the way, Powertec makes a decent t-track that's reasonably cheap: amzn.to/2Nhuw5A. Not enough so I'm going to make that kind of table, of course. 😄
Nice! I really like them metal t-tracks also. Maybe a little too much, Something about them just makes you want to build a jig even if you don’t need one. Lately I’ve been pricing the aluminum extrusion with T-slots, and 😐😭 why oh why does the good things gotta be just outta reach. Guess this is one of the excuses we build (even if it’s at double the cost, lol). Build on my friend, build on! Enjoy your videos👍
I can see the difference in price between Yonico and Rockler bit but you have to account for the 1/4" vs 1/2" shank bits. Even identical cutter bits from same manufacturer are different prices if different shank sizes as far as I have seen. Regardless of the price very informative video TYVM
Thank you so much!! I just bought a bunch of T-Track and then started thinking....can't I just cut the slots into the wood? With a little care I should be able to do so....but I needed some guidance on which bits to use and what heights to set the router tol This will be a vital bookmark until I get familiar with how to do it without continually looking back. 😂😂
Newbie Dan, your answer to a better depth gauge is in your hand -@the 5:33 minute As a former machinist, I too had to learn to look at the obvious. The slide out extension on your calipers is for measuring depth/ height even for thicknesses. And also from experience using digital calipers, they can easily be out of adjustment by simple debris in the racking gears. Whereas a dial or veneer can be cleaned and re-zeroed.
William - Thanks for the comment. You got me to stop and think a little - I hate when that happens! 😄 But then I remembered why I used that gauge. I liked how it has two feet, making it more likely I'd get the fence to the right distance. At least that's what I was thinking, anyway. By the way, I have both digital and analog calipers, but I wanted to do the math with decimals. Of course, I didn't realize it was going to be such easy math... Oh, and both of my calipers, and the other gauge, can be calibrated, so that's not an issue. Assuming of course I actually *do* calibrate them. Fortunately, I didn't need to be *that* accurate for this. My table saw's fence, which made the final cut to 1", is a lot less accurate than the gauges. 😛 Do you agree with my thinking about the "two feet"?
The Newbie Woodworker to quote from my cartoon her o Daddy Duck, 'That sounds logical.' And I understand you on zeroing the calipers. And good to hear that yours are able to do so. Back 30 years ago when digital were coming out they were a bugger to keep zeroed. Again looking forward to seeing more of your drillpress top.
Thanks. I took another look at the digital calipers, and I'm not 100% sure they can be calibrated, however, I can use the "ABS" function to temporarily reset where "0" is, if I need to. I know for a fact the depth gauge can be calibrated, because I did it accidentally once, and had to "undo" it. :) Regarding looking forward to seeing more of my drill press table, so am I! I'm so close to done, I can taste it!!
I use the same gauge for the same reason. The caliper can be trickier to align and to ensure that it's perpendicular to the fence, especially when your fence is opened for the bit and dust collection.
Thank you for making this video. I got some great ideas that will help me in my current project. I'm just in the planning stage of building a router table(on a budget, haha) and I have been trying to figure out how I was going to handle the fence and a track for a miter gauge. I also liked your setup for holding down materials on the drill press. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! A couple of thoughts, for the budget-minded 😄: 1) For a router table, the fence doesn't *need* t-tracks. You can just clamp the fence to the table, as long as your table has enough overhanging lip to clamp to. I've seen some RU-vid videos on the subject, but honestly, a board with a cut-out for the bit is all that's absolutely necessary. 2) As for the miter track, I have one and never use it. That doesn't mean *you'll* never use it, but you could always add one later. 3) Lastly, in case you haven't seen it, I have a video on building a router lift: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LJqPDADi8MM.html. And I show how you can use it as a mini router table until you can build a "real" table. 😄
If you don't mind spending the money, I'd buy the PowerTec, as opposed to cutting my own t-track. Unless you have a good reason for cutting your own. It looks nice, and it's smooth.
I made a ruler using Free paint...net software. It's accuracy rivals the metal INCRA rulers I bought. I've already put them into my workbench top and front. And made a 16 inch wide by 1/2 inch tall one zero center for my router fence. You could have put a ruler on the pieces of oak that you cut off.
Trust me, I'd love to be able to do metric, or at least decimal Imperial. And in fact when I use SketchUp, I'm often switching from fractional Imperial to decimal, especially since 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood is almost exactly .7", and 1/2" is almost exactly .45". Hey, now that I think about it, we could keep Imperial measurements, yet still use decimal values. As long as I can remember that .6875" is 11/16"... never mind. 😛And the problem really is that it's hard to find hardware and tools that are metric, in my neck of the woods. So, I make due.
A few suggestions: Instead of agonizing over the fence placement, cut the T-slot first, in a slightly oversized piece. Then cut to the right width on your table saw. Also, two passes for a 5/16 or 3/8 straight bit is a little conservative. If your bits are sharp, even 9/16 should be doable in one pass (except for plywood.. the glue makes those cuts nasty). As far as 1/4" vs. 1/2" shank, it's really a non-issue unless you're cutting a lot deeper than a T-slot with it. Some fancier stile and rail bits, and similar heavy cuts, will require a 1/2" shank (you probably won't find them in 1/4"). A good 1 or 1.5 HP router with interchangeable chucks isn't that much more expensive than the little hand held ones that can only do 1/4". The extra mass is actually safer for heavy cuts than a smaller router, too.
Thanks for the comments! You are absolutely right about cutting the t-slot in an oversized piece first. That's what I usually do, so I'm not sure what I was thinking in the video. I have a good router, so yes, I definitely could have done things in one shot. I was under the impression that the more you cut out at one time, the rougher the cut. Am I wrong? And if I have a choice, I prefer 1/2" shanks, because I've had problems with the adapters before and I figure, why chance it? Thanks again for the comments.
There really shouldn't be an adapter - Usually you just unscrew the 1/2" chuck and screw on the 1/4". I agree - I wouldn't trust anything called an adapter - just sounds dangerous! While it is true that deeper cuts can be rougher, it depends on the bit, and there's usually a 'breaking point', if you'll pardon the term. The bit will cut fine, up to a point. A 1/16th deeper cut, and it gets all wonky. It's basically a learning process, bit by bit, literally. Each bit will cut a different amount before it starts to bog down or give rough cuts. Straight cut bits, which is what I commented on, should be able to cut fairly deep and still cut clean. Any bit where part of the cutter is "captured" is definitely going to be... fun. An example of 'captured' is that T-slot bit - if you can't stop the router in the middle and just lift the wood away from the bit, it's captured. They have the hardest time getting rid of dust, and besides just bogging down, the cutter will heat up fast. Not only does that burn the wood, but the hot resin and carbon stick to the cutting edge, and... nasty cuts. The type of wood matters, too, as well as the shape of the cut, the speed of the cutter and how fast you push it through.. Like I said, a learning process.
I use a key-hole bit to make t tracks. If I need a 3/8 wide slot, I make pass, move my fence, then make another pass to get the 3/8 slot. The key-hole bit has a shallow side slot, so a regular 5/6 or 3/8 bolt will work with the slot.
Great! Make sure you watch some safety videos. I didn't do that, when I first started using my router a lot, and I made some very bad mistakes that could have had serious consequences. A little RU-vid time would have prevented it. 😮
The Newbie Woodworker I certainly will Just recovering from a recent operation so doing little else these days, but hopefully not for too long Keep those videos coming. And I second the comment in a subsequent post about the clamps to retain the fence position My table saw has an awful alignment problem so I set up a new one each time I rip something- probably why I don't use it more often - that clamp idea will help me a lot.
LOL. They don't have to be expensive. For example, here's a set of 5 straight bits for $20, at Home Depot: www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Straight-Router-Bit-Set-5-Piece-A25RS51/205626170. Even if you live somewhere that doesn't have Home Depots, the point is that you can get inexpensive sets. Of course, the cheaper the bit, the sooner it will start to get dull, and start to burn. But if you're careful to not cut too much at one time, these can last quite a while. So personally, I get the cheap bits whenever I can, although I try to get some sort of "name" brand, so at least I know they have *some* sort of QA. 😛
I know...I just found another of your old videos...and in it you said you would be doing a video showing the install of the t-tracks after finishing it...looked all over your channel, could not find one...ever make it?
Thanks Dan, your videos are great! I like your router fence that I've seen in several of your videos, particular with the dust collection port. Do you have any videos or hints on how that fence was constructed? Pausing your videos gives me some clues, but you've got some details with knobs and dust collection that intrigue me. Thanks again.
Thanks, Mark. I don't have a video of my router table, sorry. But you can see some of it here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CqctN68a46o.html. And I have a couple of SketchUp models here: 3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/by/TheNewbieWoodworker. And of course, my router lift is here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LJqPDADi8MM.html
Informative video!✅ When you talk about taking multiple passes, how can you do that with this bit? Do you mean cutting a dado first then using one of these bits? Thanks!
Get yourself a Snapmaker, which is a 3 in 1 (Laser Cutter, CNC Engraver & 3D Printer) Check it out at snapmaker.com. I am buying one in about two months time.
Dan, I think you may have slipped. I could be wrong tho. @7:20, when you are talking about the Yonico bit and a 'smaller router', you suggest making multiple passes. It took me awhile to tie that back to using a straight bit before using the 'Yonico'. You made me have to think - but that's a good thing. ;-)
Thanks for the comment. Yep, that wasn't at all clear on my part. The worst part is, I knew it wasn't clear and left it that way. Chalk it up to a case of "I'll be darned if I'm going to make one more change - I'm posting it as is. People will figure it out." Admittedly, that's never a good attitude. But I'm glad you *did* figure it out!
Great minds think alike. I have both of the same bits! I'm interested in any strength differences between the aluminum and red oak tracks. Were you planning any non-scientific tests? Along that line, Wood Glue makes the joint stronger. What about a glued up t-track for those without routers and perform the same non-scientific strength test. Just some of the thoughts popping into my head from your video's. Great video once again by the way.
Thanks for the comment. That's funny about the bits. I had the Rockler one for a year or so, and decided to get the Yonico bit for this video - who knew I'd end up loving it? Since I'll be putting these t-tracks in my drill press table, they'll certainly get put to the test, strength-wise. But I'll leave someone else to do the tests. And I'm not a gluing expert by any means, so again, although it's a good idea, I'll leave it for someone else. Thanks!
@@TheNewbieWoodworkerI have been having trouble finding the actual width of standard T-bolt heads. I don't know if it depends on the thread width, but I am looking to buy 5/16" T-bolts. If you have any that size (or close), could you measure the width of the head for me? It would really help, because I have to special order them and I'd like to order the cutter at the same time and minimize the play in the slot.
Cool idea. I use t tracks on my projects on my channel. However, I can't imagine these are even close to as strong as the aluminum ones. What have you experiencd since you've made them?
They're actually surprisingly tough (depending on what they're made out of), but obviously not nearly as good as the aluminum ones. There are a lot of times where you don't need a lot of downward pressure, like with a fence. But the bottom line, for me, is that I'd only use them if there was a specific reason to, like how something looks. Especially since I've learned that you can use epoxy with aluminum t-tracks, so if you don't have enough room for screws, the epoxy holds great.
Because wood changes significantly with temperature and humidity, I am experimenting with machining fixture pieces using HDPE and UHMW for cheap prototyping. Trying to resist buying the parf dog system... (Don't watch Dave Stanton's videos it's a whole new world of rabbit hole tool spending for excessive obsession with accuracy.) Have to go veeery slowly on plastics though because they begin to melt/deform at as low as 180F. About the same streng as wood, so I'm using it for miter tracks instead of t tracks with clamping. I'm prototyping mft template and a new universal track saw adapter design because I am so far down this rabbit hole... At least my friends have cnc routers so I'm not buying one of those...
OMG, you're worse than me! 😄 I've used UHMW for runners before, and I'm using them in my router lift to run in a couple of miter tracks. But I think I'll stay away from that video, or I'll never finish any of the other things on my long list!
The Newbie Woodworker every time I think I want to do something I end up over engineering a prerequisite component At this point I'm practically reinventing wheels 🤣 Not having a dedicated workshop space/budget means getting rather creative! Traffic cone ($9) dust cyclone was my first project...
That is *so* me! "Over-engineer" is my middle name. It was true even back in my programming days. But I want it like I want it, same as you, right? As long as you're having fun, what does it really matter, anyway. 😛
The Newbie Woodworker I'm currently doing a programming boot camp... I don't know how my mentors put up with me EVERYTHING MUST BE DONE IN THE SMALLEST AMOUNT OF TIME AND STORAGE AND LINES OF CODE, OKAY
Huh. That's how programming used to be, in the 80's and parts of the 90's. But nowadays none of that matters much at all, since computers are so fast these days, and memory is measured in gigabytes instead of kilobytes. What *does* matter is how easy is your code to understand, and how easy is it to make changes. Maybe they'll get to that later on. Your instructors would probably hate me. 😛
Dan - this is great. I'm working on a clamp/brace mechanism for some custom sliding wood doors I am making. One question though - I don't have a router table or a router. Do you buy the whole router + router table together? It looks like I can get a handheld router used for about $50. Could these tracks be made with that?
Router tables are expensive. You should watch some RU-vid videos to get some idea of what's available. You could also make your own. I don't have a video of that, but I do have a video for a router lift you could build: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LJqPDADi8MM.html. Yes, you could do it with a handheld router, but I wouldn't recommend trying to route it in a narrow strip of wood. If you can route it in a wider piece first, then cut it down, that would be best. But most importantly, if you've never used a router, please watch some safety or "how to" videos. Routers are sneaky dangerous. Just see my accident video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BJmdSgWeaas.html
Very good info & well presented. Questions: How do you think the wood t-tracks will hold up over the long haul? Are you at all worried about wood expansion/contraction? Just curious.....................Thanks again..............
Thanks, and here's the answers: 1) No idea, and 2) yes. Oh, you want more than that? 😛 I think the wood t-tracks will hold up great in everything except for high-stress clamping situations, and since that'll be the case with my drill press table, I guess I'll find out! As for expansion/contraction, I don't have enough experience to know how much it will affect things. I *do* have red oak edging on my router table, and it's over a year old, and the edging hasn't separated or anything. But that's different than being surrounded on both sides by plywood. I guess time will tell, right?
Sapele Steve...aluminium expands and contracts too...!!...but in such small bits of wood etc I don’t expect it is that much, unless you require exceptional accuracy...?
Stuart - Correct. But when you combine two types of wood that have vastly different seasonal changes, then there's definitely a potential for issues. Since it's hot now, the worst that would happen is that when winter comes, the red oak will pull away from the plywood to some degree, as it shrinks. But even if it does, I doubt it'll be an issue. Then again, ask me next year. 😛
My question would be, how strong is the shoulder when you clamp down on material. Seems the shoulder of the T-track might snap or is there any upward pressure against the underside of the shoulder?
That's a great question. I've been using these on my drill press table for quite a while now. Yes, they make cracking sounds sometimes when I clamp down hard on something. So far, it hasn't resulted in any visible cracking, but time will tell. Honestly, I think they look great on my drill press table, but they're not nearly as practical as aluminum ones. Using them on something like a router table or a router table fence would make more sense, because any clamping doesn't really put much lifting pressure on them.
Are they still holding up or have you since switched over to manufactured t-slots? Also, do you think that using regular bolts is better than using t-slot bolts? Here’s why I ask...I’m thinking that the extra thickness of a regular bolt head would work better up against the wood groove, than the super thin head of a regular t-bolt or toilet bolt. I’m wondering if the regular thin t-boots or toilet bolts would eventually created spots in the groove that would make it hard to clamp to if needing to be off by a small fraction. For example let’s say a stop was regularly used at 20” over and over again. I’m assuming an indented groove would be created at that exact spot from the repeated use, especially from a thin t-bolt in a wood slot. If I now needed to have a stop block at 19 7/8” for example, I’m wondering if it would be extremely hard to do because the t-bolt would naturally fall into the 20” groove that was made from repeated use. A regular bolt I’m assuming could create the same issue, but with the extra “meat” (metal on the head), would it be less? Curious to hear your experience.
I think you're worries are well-founded. If I was using them like that, I think I'd want aluminum tracks. To me, it's not worth saving a few bucks when something is critical, like that. FWIW, I'm still using them in my drill press table, which is the only place I installed them. I use carriage bolts now, because they slide really well with the rounded heads. I use an angle grinder to flatten two "sides" of the head, so it fits in the slot. Have to be careful not to grind off *too* much, but it's easy once you do it a couple of times. So far the track is holding up fine. If I crank down a clamp too much, I can hear the wood "creaking", so I try to be careful. Personally, I love the way it looks in my drill press table, especially on camera. But I don't know how much I'd use them in other projects - I'd have to think on it for a while.
I have a knife and it is a ww2 carteraugus commando 225q and it has solid screw heads and I'm searching for ideas for removing them so I can replace the leather handle on this really nice knife. Any ideas out there let me know what you think.
Thanks so much for this video. I really learn a lot from you. I have a question. Do I need an adapter for the bigger bit because it won’t fit my router?
Just found this video 3 years later............One issue when you use the blue T-track that you don't mention is that if you installing it in 3/4 material, the screws you use to secure it are very small. After a few times cranking on the clamps, I have had the blue track come loose and "pull up", instead of the clamp "clamp down"
It depends on how you're using the t-track. For instance, if it's for a fence on a router table, you'll never crank it down hard enough to matter. But if you're using it for something like clamps, then try 5-minute epoxy to glue the tracks down - they won't pull up at all. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ocHrw8eeMTM.html
