The man has a legitimate safety concern only because of his own actions. He should have read the Covenants first -- if he had, he would never have built the pool in the first place because the Covenants don't allow a fence adequate to protect the pool. Stupid rule, but it's his own damned fault for not bothering to read it first.
@@johnsimion2893 " The man has a legitimate safety concern only because of his own actions. He should have read the Covenants first -- if he had, he would never have built the pool in the first place because the Covenants don't allow a fence adequate to protect the pool." Doesn't the City of Wentzville's By-Law, or Ordinance, trumps the HOA rules? Also, what about the State of Missouri's statutes on swimming pool fences? The State law would also trump the HOA rules. A four foot fence is below the City of Wentzville's standard six-foot height, and therefore, the HOA rules should be rescinded.
@@ronaldmccallum2111 Laws are always interpreted to avoid conflicting with each other. The HOA rule did not conflict with the City rule until he built the pool. This begs the question whether the HOA approved the pool itself. The video doesn't say, but I'll bet they didn't because if they had, some sort of fence would have been required as a condition of approval. If the HOA approval had required a 6' fence, then there would be no argument. If they had required only a 4' fence, he could have resolved the matter before spending a dime building the pool. That is the problem with condensing legal issues into a 4 minute video. Regardless, he asked for trouble and it found him.
@@johnsimion2893 the hoa is breaking the law you cannot have a pool over 3 feet deep without being contained so if they allow pools they allow proper safety fences
@Lawrence L. I just said could you be okay if someone died in your pool. I didn't say anything about home owner fault. No matter if you are not to blame or not.
well now if someone drowns they can sue the HOA for not allowing appropriate safety measures to be put in place. It would be hard to defend their position since he pursued a variance for that very reason and was denied.
No Lawrence i am absolutely not blaming you i am saying that if there is an inadequate fence, you will be blamed and held responsible. I am with you my friend, im tired of HOA s having such impunity, i think they should be abolished
People don't understand HOAs. They have ZERO accountability. Zero responsibility. The law stilts in their favor. Corporate veil and contract law. If the HOA breaks the By Laws, it's on you to take your neighbors to court. Everybody pays to fight you whether they want to or not. The pool's safety will never be the HOAs problem. The fence is this guy's problem. BLUF: Never buy a home in an HOA. Never.
Most municipalities require a permit to install an in-ground pool AND require that an in-ground pool be surrounded by a fence with a self closing gate with a lock on it. It would be interesting to know if the town/county/municipality the property is located in requires such an enclosure and, if so, what the minimum height is. Now if the required height, by law, is only 48 inches, then he chose to exceed it. If the required minimum height is 6 feet, then it would seem that the HOA bylaws should not have the power to over ride what is required by law (local building code). Too bad that bit of information is not provided here. All that being said, I too will ever willingly and knowingly purchase a property that is a part of an HOA that has any kind of enforceable bylaws, and the power to levy collectible fine. I do live in a community that has a homeowner's association, but not the kind of association that has any really legal clout. They have tried to flex what they believe are legal muscles, if you will, but learned the hard way when they were basically laughed out of court by a judge.
He broke a rule of the socialist next door. He is going to pay a price. They have him by the tail. Never buy in an HOA unless you submit and stay down on your knees. If they ever see you getting up, you will be put in your place. Trust me.
@Cyndi Rothrock Right. So the HOA is not monitored by the police. The governing documents are seen as contract the homeowner bought into when they purchased their home so most courts will not find in your favor when you are being abused. The governing document language is vague enough to allow the board to color outside the lines any way it wishes to. They can write rules just for everyone that really only pertain to you personally. I've seen it many, many times.
I love my HOA. In Vegas I wouldn’t not live in one. Otherwise you’re in the ghetto. I’ve lived in 6 HOAs coast to coast and not one issue anywhere. Unless you’ve experienced it your advice is pointless. I get sick of seeing these bullshit statements on every random HOA story. They’re like bad reviews, you never hear good ones.
Slight correction: If your neighborhood has an HOA, read the rules first. Most of the rules are very reasonable -- but you can't tell until you read the Covenants. If you actually read the Covenants and you just can't live with their restrictions, THEN yes, run and don't look back. I agree with Fashion Diva, HOAs are necessary and most of the comments here are just bullshit. I'm sticking with my HOA even though I've had trouble with them trying to boss me around. They don't get very far with me because I read and follow the rules and I know them better than they do!
In my old neighborhood in the 80s a toddler drowned to death when a new pool had no fence :'( a child's life is irreplaceable, I think this guy deserves a Medal for being a good citizen and definitely a great neighbor thinking about others safety first. Shame on you HOA!!!!
A toddler couldn't climb a 4 ft fence. If someone is stupid enough to live in an hoa they are to stupid to think for themselves and need to follow the rules
I lived in an HOA for one year and it was the worst experience of my life. It might as well be a separate country with how many rules and regulations they have.
I understand he broke the rules and there should maybe be a little fine. However trying to force them to take it down is dumb. And taking this to court is stupid. This is one thing that should be decided by the majority of the community itself because I truly believe that most of them are for it. It's just a board members here that seem to be on a power trip
The rules were there before he put in the pool and the fence. You heard him yourself, he thought it would be easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. That tells me that he knew the rules and deliberately didn't follow them, and now he's paying the price. Does that mean I think this rule is smart? No, and I'd also like to see him keep his fence. But it wasn't an "idiotic rule" until he built his pool with a fence that he knew violated the rule. If you have a problem rule you'd better get it resolved before you go and do a big expensive project like this. Like they said, sometimes there are variances and sometimes HOA covenants can be changed. If you don't pursue your options before plunging ahead, you're the one who is the idiot.
I would only if the house is grandfathered in so I could reap the benefits of security and not have to pay the HOA. They'll never get a cent out of me 😂
That would fix the problem. Pressure the city council to pass a resolution saying homeowners will be allowed to install a fence of x feet tall around swimming pools for safety reasons.
The city granted a permit for the 6 foot fence. The jerk HOA said no. only a 4 foot fence. I agree with whoever said they should take FULL responsibility for any child who easily defeats their lousy 4ft fence and drowns in the pool.
@@MoneyManHolmes Problem is, the HOA can claim their rules take precedence, since the homeowner signed a contract stating they agreed to the tighter restriction. And the courts would rule in their favor 9 times out of 10.
I looked it up, and they say "at least four feet." It's an easy fix for their legislators - make it six, and they can choose to grandfather those 4-6' in so as to not adversely affect homeowners with existing fences.
it doesn't matter. I know it seems like it should but this is about power. I am a former HOA board member of many years. Trust me this is not a safety issue. It's control and power. And maybe money. And it's not beyond the pale that this may be a personal issue between the homeowner and someone on the HOA board.
Yes but it’s the APPROVAL that he didn’t get first. Now it’s a power move. They don’t care about the morality of it. They want to make an example of people who don’t bow down and kneel first. White collar corruption.
I'm not fond of HOAs either and do not like to be told what to do with my property. But the reason I do it and I think a lot of others do as well is because of property value. Homes in HOAs far exceed the national average of homes not in HOAs when it comes to holding property values and also the rate of increase over time with property. Because the strict rules keep HOA neighborhoods and properties safe and well kept and don't allow neighbors or people close to you to let their places go down hill or keep unwanted clutter In their yards. Again, I hate the negatives of HOAs but up till this point, the financial aspects of having properties inside an HOA have kept me willing to tolerate them. And I say up till this point because it wouldn't take much to convince me to move if they tried some crap like this guy is dealing with
We had the same concerns when we built a pool in our old house. according to the city rules the fence on the street side could not be higher than 4 feet, too low for determined neighborhood kids, our solution was to plant the thorniest holly bushes we could find. They blocked the view from the street and couldn't be climbed without tearing one's skin to shreds.
"I live in Canada. My dad was required by federal law to have a six foot fence around his pool." Your country has a more sensible law in this regard than here in the US, apparently.
@@Milesco I have more respect for Viviana than I do for some jackass whose only retort is to belittle someone for spelling or grammar. This is a multicultural world and not everyone speaks or writes perfect English.
Unfortunately, in some parts of the US, it is nearly impossible to find NO HOA housing. There is much greater demand for NO HOA housing than there is supply.
Hey guess what HOA president ... some kid came into my yard fell in my pool and drowned after you forced me to take the fence down. I sure hope you can afford the multy-million dollar law suit.
"Take down fence, child drowns when homeowner gone, sue the HOA!" VERY dumb idea! The pool owner would clearly be on the hook, then. The HOA permits four-foot fences.
I bought an 18 month old luxury town home while the developer was still building the last half of the community. The developer was serving as the HOA at the time. I asked about the deck. They said it was perfectly fine, we put it on, we put all these decks on all these town houses, you're crazy if you think you'll ever have a problem with this deck from the HOA. You didn't add it the builder put it on along with 40 others. Fast forward 9 years and while selling my home as the HOA Board president who pi$$ed off a board member who was a tyrant, and my HOA resale documents were delayed three weeks over that "unapproved deck." They wanted me to either take it down or submit the original plans for approval. My next door neighbor was the board tyrant and he had a deck too. We lost three sales contracts on that house and ended up losing $20,000 in holding costs, price reductions and curing other issues that were not really problems but buyers became suspicious because the house kept going back on the market. We made one more mistake after that - we bought another HOA home which we sold two years later. Now we live out in the rural areas where nice people have nice homes and there is no board scheming against you because there is no HOA.
That's why you should NEVER purchase any type of dwelling, or land, that has an HOA, or POA. The only people that ever serve on the boards of them are always the type that want to make others kiss their a**es. If you aren't their buddy, they will cause you every possible problem.
I thought it was a law that swimming pools had to have restricted access. Otherwise the owner is responsible for any mishaps. So they let him put in a pool but didn't address any safety ordinance.
i'd lower the fence to 4ft but only upon every member of the HOA board signing an agreement that they may be charged with manslaughter by gross negligence if a child climbs the compliant lowered fence and drowns.
That fence is nice and it would actually add value to the house: a nice, fenced-in pool is a big selling point. I just cannot understand how they just do not retroactively approve if it improves the home and neighborhood? The HOA is so frustrating; I couldn’t live with one.
I find it ridiculous that people would a buy $500 000+ house, just to be told what to do with it. You are essentially leaving in a rental you paid for as if you own. At the end of the day you don't own shit.
My aunt and uncle wanted to build a pool in their backyard in the 90s. And at the time unfortunately, the neighborhood was part of an HOA. HOA had no problems with them installing the pool at all. My uncle had already gotten the permits and approval from the town for both the pool and the 8 foot high fence around it. He never bothered asking the HOA about the fence height because he already knew that they would have only allowed a 5 foot high fence. And the town required a minimum of 6 feet if you had a pool on the property. They built the pool, then the fence right away. They wanted it 8 feet because the Labrador Retriever that they had then could clear 6 foot high one with no problem. So when HOA started complaining about the height, they stood their ground and showed them the letter from the town officials office and fire department. The letter stated that safety regulations required a minimum fence height of 6 feet for a swimming pool. HOA had no choice but to give in and not bring the issue up ever again or they would be pay harassment fines. Thank God the neighborhood was able to go to the town office a few years later and voted to get rid of the HOA because they were just trying to make everything hard for everyone. Bottom line: whatever your local town/ city code is for having a swimming pool, it automatically cancels out anything the HOA says!
I hate HOAS and actually sold my house when I found out it was going to HOA. Yes ilana fence is neccessary... but a short 4 foot latter or and chair...can assist a child to climb over that fence. It wasn't that tall.
@@cindarella2954 Thank you, I was just confused by this poster's statement on that. It would definitely seem that if you already have a deeded property, you can't suddenly be forced to join an HOA.
@KatieBellino I didn't want to be in the neighborhood with an hoa. That means if my kids wanted to play but a neighbor could not put a fence up to protect kids...I don't want my kids raised in that area.
When going to trial, I would speak loud and clear that if I had to lower the fence by the president of the HOA, that I would sue and hold him/her accountable for any child who was injured or even worse because of negligence. I would even see if this could be a criminal charge against the president.
one thing i learned , that shocked me about home owners insurance, is if you own a pool, and put up a fence, if a person climbs your fence, without permission, and drowns in your pool, you are held responsible. its nuts. that means if a person walks in your yard and falls in your pool your responsible. hes right to have a fence
Take down the fence, IF, the HOA 100% LEGALLY assumes all liability for ANY injury OR death caused by interaction with the pool and the home owner has 0% liability and doesn't have to change anything or do anything to safeguard it. If a pool is allowed, the 6 - 8 foot un-climbable fence is considered a required part of the pool.
Yeah that's not the way liability works, unfortunately. Unless the local law requires 6 ft, the HOA is within their right to enforce. My advice would be to carry plenty of liability insurance. You can fight it in court, but as he's learning it'll cost you nothing but money and frustration. He should have asked for permission FIRST. This is one of most common mistakes people make. Many CC&Rs also say if you get sued for violating a rule, you pay the HOAs legal fees. This is to protect the other owners. Like the lawyer said, you should read the docs before agreeing to them. Ignorance is no excuse.
I live in Florida and I'm pretty State Law requires you to have a fence capable of keeping all people out of it. With it you are not held accountable if a kid drowns in it. Now I may not be right , but, I'm fairly certain.
@@bitsnpieces11 Florida law is only 4 feet. The HOA needs to meet state law -- meaning, 4 feet would have to be allowed, but 6 feet is at HOA discretion. In this case, the guy installed 6 feet. He should have gained approval first. In general, if you're changing appearance of the exterior (new color roof, new fence, new shed), you should gain approval first to avoid these issues. If the owner doesn't like that, probably shouldn't have bought into an HOA. They're not for everyone. Source on law: www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0515/0515.html
The HOA has demonstrated that they don't care about safety so put in the 4 foot fence and if something bad happens, the HOA will be liable by their own words and actions.
You're missing the point. The HOA will NEVER accept responsibility for a privately owned home or pool or anything. This guy is in a trick. He trusted his HOA. Now they are going to run him out of this home. Or he will have to comply and come up with something they like. Drive the extra 20 minutes and live in a nice area without an HOA.
WTF?! He has a swimming pool so he can't NOT have a fence. If a child goes into a pool that has no fence with a locked gate and gets hurt or drowns then it's ALL on the owner. It's called Enticement.
Sumonelse what I understand is, it's not about just having a fence. It's the height of it. The HOA wants it to be 4 feet tall. He had it at 6 foot. A child can climb a 4 foot fence. This fence is safer at 6 foot and harder to climb. What's crazy is his fence is similar to the community pools fence. So you'd think this fence would be approved also. His other neighbors approve of it. It's just the HOA idiot across the street. This is ridiculous, I hope he wins his suit.
@@katz734 Sometimes the HOA makes it a personal issue and it becomes more about winning an argument than about what's right for everyone. The HOA hates being wrong and will dig their heels in and not budge
I had my own personal and unforgettable experience having an HOA. I simply cannot understand their oftentimes callous and indifferent treatment of homeowners!
Something else to think about. Has anyone and this includes any reporter or journalist seeing this. Has anyone actually bothered to really dig up the credential certification process to be an H.O.A? A single Real estate Lisence does NOT grant you permission to be an HOA. YOU MUST have certification or training in the following: Real Estate, Real Estate Law, Property Portfolio, Electrical, Plumbing, H.V.A.C., Property Management & Maintenance. This is for Starters. I can Gurantee that NOT a single HOA in this country will have more than 2 of the previously mentioned!
If HOA allows a pool, but, not a 6' fence, which costs more than their 6'community pool fence, which is not as safe, or not as appealing, then the HOA should be responsible for any injuries and drownings!
I hope that fence stays. It's safe. I'd hate for it to come down and someone to fall in and drown. 3 to 4 feet high wouldn't be high enough to keep out children.
HOA and the president that inforced the rule to tear down the fence. In reality he should be able to put up a 10 ft fence if he deems neccessary for safety and privacy.
I think it's rare for small children to go into other people's yards to swim in their pools without permission. The being said, if the man wants a fence, let him have one, it's his property.
Ever been a teenager and hopped a 4ft fence to get in a pool after midnight? Pretty easy. 6ft, most can't easily jump that, especially without some serious noise
HOA's are almost always entirely run by groups of people full of their own self importance who actually have no idea. They usually have a career history of never actually making anything of themselves and therefore use their self created position of authority to boss people about. Other than basic aesthetic matters, i.e. making sure properties do not end up looking a mess, HOA's should have no say.
Shawn K , The pool is not in question , the pool is fine , and still would be fine with a 4 foot fence , it's only the height of the fence in question , the home owner thought it would be safer with a higher fence , which it is , but the (HOA) Home Own Association doesn't approve of the 6 foot fence , only a 4 foot fence can be installed around your property whether you have a pool or not , the neighbors have a 4 foot fence around their property and no pool , it's the height requirement of fence only in question here , has nothing to do with a pool
Here's a thought: let's say this guy, who is trying to do the right thing, ends up having to lower the fence to four feet. A kid gets inside the pool area and drowns. Seems to me that the HOA would be more on the hook than the pool owner. In a court case, the pool owner could simply turn over the documentation, showing that not only did the HOA deny him a variance on the fence height, but even sued him to have him change the fence to the lower four-foot height. I'm not an attorney, but I'd think that would be pretty damning evidence against the HOA, rather than the pool owner.
Why would anyone buy a home in an HOA? The fine print gives them near total control over your home with close to zero oversight or accountability. There are plenty of nice homes outside of HOAs.
I call BS. The remedy here is for the local government -- city or county -- to enact a law REQUIRING minimum 6-foot fence (or some other reasonable public safety measure) around every pool to prevent drowning. Every local government and/or state should enact this law. It's reasonable AND necessary. The homeowner should start lobbying them. Every parent should sign a petition demanding the same for every residential pool in their state. State law trumps HOA's.
If the HOA prohibits the safety mechanism, then then logically the HOA assumes 100% of the liability. Hmmm, allow a 6ft fence, or pay 20 million for a wrongful death? No brainer.
That’s ok, pull the fence down and any child that gets injured or dies due to drowning becomes the legal and financial responsibility of the HOA. More specifically the members who refused allowing this man to have an appropriate safety fence around a pool knowing full well the possible dangers involved.
