High floored vehicles have another benefit: the positioning of doors is not constrained by the wheels and motors. This means that you can have more doors for shorter wait times in stations. (The things I learn from RM Transit.) It also means, of course, that tram trains can make easier use of existing infrastructure.
Metrolink cars currently only have 2 doors per side though. Honestly as trams go, they're on the short side, you have to double them up to get any decent length.
Also adds a level of complexity to accessibility, as you need to consider longer ramps to get onto any street-level stations. Metrolink do seem to have done that, though - the network is wheelchair accessible throughout (give or take the odd lift failure).
@@RedHillian Fact is , that if you have to use a lift you are already at a disadvantage , not only because they can be broken , but also because they tend to always be at the other elevation than you are ( Murphy's law of lifts ) thus increasing your travel time .. Also when using a disability scooter you have to hope they are big enough .. My wife can travel freely in The Hague , as her scooter can drive up the low platforms and use the lifts in the elevated and underground parts of the system , but she cant travel in the Rotterdam system as the lifts there are to small .. ( both systems are connected as the towns are near to each other nasty surprise when we went to visit one of her friends who lives there ... )
@@abushams3336 You're very correct with that, and there are a few places where accessibility on the Metrolink network leaves quite a bit to be desired and isn't wonderful for anyone in a wheelchair (or any other mobility aid) - generally in the older sections.
@@roberthindle5146 No doubt but critical thinking skills and all that, Manchester the former industrial city, now supports Hong Kong style Towers with Porsche and Tesla drivers getting tickets like hamburgers. The industrial workers are still there, working but claiming benefits, going hungry, cold, uneducated, denied decent health care, homeless support or decent policing. Just what about Manchester exactly my autistic brain asks, remotely matches the description of a "great city?" It's a working class city in the slavery of the middle classes. Not a great or esteemed city in any way. The railway brought pollution, decimation of countryside, industrialization and never once provided trains that are worthy of a ticket price. Silly sausage x
@@tremensdelirious What about the postage stamp of a city park, they call Sackville Street park? The stench of cannabis hangs heavy in the air as you are casually cruised by gay men from the neighbouring gay village. Sackville Street has one of the highest crime rates in the entire city.
@@tremensdelirious I suppose inhaling clouds of cannabis fumes to the point you don't care anymore and being eyed-up at the same time is pleasant and flattering, after a while.
3:50 - Yeah. I get that these spellings are ridiculous but as a local, I can confirm that Bury is pronounced like "berry" and Altrincham is pronounced "Alt-ring-um" (a bit like Twickenham). Anyway, a very interesting video. It's quite surprising how much history there is for such a new system. Thanks Jago, keep up the great videos! :)
I think people are pretty evenly divided over “berry” vs. “burry”. But yeah I've only ever heard “alt-ring-um” or “alt-ring-hum”, and don't tend to notice the difference between those two.
@@boffyb Oh, that surprises me. I am from the Altrincham area and here I only ever hear people pronounce it like "berry". I don't know if it maybe varies elsewhere around Manchester.
Love to see this. One thing you didn’t touch on is how the Metrolink is key to opening parts of the city region up for regeneration. The city core was ringed with incredibly run down neighbourhoods, and as the core has began to thrive the tram system has given developers confidence in invest in circumference of the city, which in turn feeds the numbers using the tram. One observation I’d make is trams probably aren’t perfectly scaled for Manchester like it is for somewhere like Nottingham, it needs to go pre-Metro like in Brussels with some tumbling under the city as volumes climb. Also with more lines into Victoria getting electrified you could imagine a more S-bahn like system emerging if the government would devolve more power over commuter rail.
One of the ambitions for Transport for Greater Manchester (TFGM, kind of the GM equivalent of TFL) is to reach Bolton. I spent the period from 2017-21 living and studying in Bolton and so far I can see, there are two practical options. Both these options involve reuse of disused railways. The more direct option involves reusing the first rail route into the town, Bolton and Leigh Railway, to Great Moor Street, which opened in the 1830's. The less direct route involves reusing a section of the Liverpool and Bury Railway between Bolton and Bury
I've never really seen a need for Metrolink to serve Bolton. There's a high frequency electrified commuter rail service stopping at Middlebrook, Bolton, Moses Gate, Farnworth, etc. through to both Victoria and Piccadilly.
@@roberthindle5146 mind you, as shown when the route was being electrified, when the route is closed, the only alternate route to the city is by car or bus and traffic on (what I've heard is nicknamed) "The Devil's Road," aka the A666, can be bad enough as it is
@@roberthindle5146 High frequency? It's once per hour, since when is that high frequency?! As a result I never use it (because it never aligns with connections) and catch the 10min interval bus instead. Which ironically means they probably don't see the demand for more frequent than once per hour. Even though I would gladly use it if it were frequent. Seems a catch 22.
Bombardier was founded in Quebec (by Louis-Joseph Bombardier, inventor of the snowmobile), and as a Canadian I pronounce it in that fashion - bom-bar-dee-yay.
Useful to know the background, as in the UK one naturally assumes it's pronounced like the artillery expert, and I was quite surprised when I first heard it being pronounced the other way.
When the initial system was being designed, serious consideration was given as to whether they could use low-floor trams on the network, so they did look at the feasability of raising the trackbed at stations; it was rejected in end because they only had a limited budget (£120m), and there would have been clearance problems, especially on the Altrincham (Alt-ring-um) leg as so many of the station buildings were build over the line, creatring short tunnels. Another point to make is that, when the Eccles branch as opened, they had their own batch of altered T-68s (the T-68A) because of the higher on-road running required - in the end, all the T68s were converted to T68A standard. The expansion was slightly more convoluted than you said; initially, the proposal had been to bring in all the extensions in one go (the "Big Bang"), however the Government of the day wasn't willing to fund the whole thing, so GMPTE split it in two, with the Oldham/Rochdale line plus parts of the Ashton/Didsbury lines being built first, followed by the Airport & finishing the Ashton/Didsbury lines. If you get a chance, do come back and have a proper look round - the mix of suburban running, street running, viaduct running and (on the Rochdale line) almost countryside running is fascinating. And, it's all so seemless and easy to get round.
Lovely introduction to our little Metrolink. I've lived in Manchester for 25 years, and within a few minutes walk of a Metrolink stop for 15. When it's good, it's very very good, and when a bit of it is closed for upgrading or whatever, we really miss it. Prices aren't too bad and once the buses are brought back into public ownership, we might actually have a decent integrated transport system.
Fun fact, for train geeks at least. The line to Bury runs along the route of the British Rail line from Victoria to Bury. That line utilised a unique 1200V third rail system. I’m sure British Rail were delighted to get it off their hands when it was converted to light rail in the early 90s.
Like the Newcastle Metro, having the option to use conventional suburban lines makes a lot more sense, and the ability to co-exist with heavy rail ensures a flexibility to react to passinger demand in an ever changing environment, ensuring both success and longevity.
Theres a video of the tomorrows world review of the 70s on youtube and it seems the newcastle metro was looking like an enormous fiasco... Course it came good in the end but I never realised how troubled it had been.
@@joinedupjon that sounds like quite a watch, between the Byker Viaduct, QEII Bridge and the tunnels under the city centre I imagine there was plenty to go wrong.
@@rufusfromjohto7515 spoiler alert - tw seemed to think the actual works was great and really quite futuristic for the 70s... But it had crappy management structure and union troubles iirc.
If someone would like to see more about the Metrolink System you should check out JenOnTheMove who is from Manchester and a lot of her videos are about this system. With AllStationsUK she did actually visit all stations in one day recently. May we hope on a future collab possibly for another video about Manchester, Jago?
Metrolink and the DLR are excellent systems and welcome exceptions to the generally dire state of public transport in Britain. However, Sheffield already has tram-trains, and the Tyne & Wear Metro is the oldest light rail system in the UK having opened in 1981. Unlike Manchester the lines through Newcastle and Gateshead are underground. These sections are new build, but much of the rest is converted from heavy rail. The section south of the Tyne to Newcastle shares the heavy rail line to Sunderland. New trains (made by Stadler, very posh) are due in service from next year. The views from the Queen Elizabeth Bridge (between Central and Gateshead) and the Byker Viaduct are spectacular.
@@danielkelly2210 fair enough! Though I’m impressed by the Netherlands’ nationwide unified smartcard ticketing system. And I’ve even been impressed by smaller Spanish metro systems like in Valencia!
So many city’s could learn from this. I live in Norwich, being a mostly medieval city, and with an extensive history of trams. Norwich would really benefit from a return to trams.
In Germany or France, a regional centre like Norwich (or Cambridge, Edinburgh, Oxford, Bristol, Bath, etc) would already have an extensive tram network.
I could see an East-West line working between the Station and the Hospital. Would be able to hit Castle Meadow, Chapelfield, Eaton Park and the UEA along the way.
@@321gj If those cities were in Germany there’s a decent chance some of them would have full fledged underground metros, not just trams. See Nuremberg and Munich.
@@theblah12 But you have to check the population size and likely ridership. The German cities you mention, like Manchester, Newcastle and Liverpool, have an urban area of 1-2 million people. Norwich is more like 200K (likewise Oxford and Cambridge). Blackpool kept its trams, but mainly based on tourist use. It's fair to say that if more British cities had kept their trams they would probably still be going today, but reinstating them is much more expensive, as Edinburgh and Sheffield found to their cost.
Honestly the biggest change that should come to the Metrolink is the conversion of its (already previously converted) into a UBahn style network with a city center tunnel. This would allow faster cross city trips, the conversion of the Hatfield line and the increase in frequency on the remaining tram only routes. A 4-5km tunnel with 2/3 stations would not be overly expensive and be a real game changer for the city.
Stuttgart’s Stadtbahn system, which is essentially a mostly grade-separated tram network that runs underground in the city centre, would be a great model to use. In the urban core it acts like a full-fledged underground metro, and in the more suburban areas it turns into a series of tram lines and commuter railways. It’s really the best of both worlds since by the time it goes above ground and turns into a tram it’s outside of the busiest parts of the city, so traffic isn’t really a problem. …At the same time, man, I really wish the UK government would bite the bullet and actually build some conventional, tube-like, underground metro systems at this point. It think it’s a bit ridiculous that the only place in the UK with a conventional underground metro system is London and Glasgow (with a single, tiny line that’s never been extended). Every other city either has trams, a small light rail network with a couple of underground stations, or (usually) nothing at all. Cities like Manchester and Birmingham are absolutely big enough to support fully fledged underground metros on the scale of the London Underground, yet for some reason that never happened.
In the 2040 delivery plan there are plans to at least investigate a case for a third city crossing that would be underground. This was published in January 2021 so it's fair to say it's still a reasonable option post pandemic.
The problem here is funding. The only place in England that can create capital funds for things like this is London, everywhere else has to rely on the Treasury, who 99% of the time say "get lost, outer M25'ers". Central government cut some of the funding for this thing when it was originally being built so Rochdale bowed out. Only Manchester and Bury put up the money. What resulted was a massive boon in both local economies and the region as a whole, while Rochdale went into sharp decline and hasn't really stopped since (there are many issues with that place but this was one of the bigger things that gave it a good kicking).
Thoroughly enjoyed your vid as always but FYI: 03:54 Bury is pronounced "Berry" and Altrincham is pronounced "Altringam". Also 06:27 the "ar" in "bombardier" is not silent so it is pronounced "bom-bar-dier" :)
When the Arndale Centre was built in the 70’s, a large void was built underneath for a Picc-Vic station. The tram really papers over the cracks when the real problem in the city is the horrendously congested Castlefield corridor, which is mostly twin track.
@@matthewc.419 There's a part below that which would have been for the stop on any future underground line. It's basically just a big concrete hole that I believe is sealed off now. I read somewhere they backfilled it but not sure how accurate that is. Search for Arndale PicVic tunnel or something similar, you should see it. There's only one photo of it I'm aware of.
Greater Mancunians tend to pronounce “Altrincham” as ‘alt-tring -ham’ dropping the “c”. “Bury” seems to have more variance in its pronunciation but it is less common to hear it stated as ‘berrie ’. As in the fruit found on brambles. Usually it is ‘burry’ i.e. rhymes with ‘Murray’. Sometimes it is more like ‘berry’ as in ‘bury a casket in the ground’. Of course you can say it however you want to, just getting this in there in a hopefully nice way. Again great video Jago, thanks for visiting the PRGM😆👍♥️.
An excellent book about the previous Manchester Corporation tram system is "The Manchester Tram" by Ian Yearsley. Published in 1962 it's available second-hand.
Place-name pronunciation: ouch. Also missed that one of the prime movers behind the whole Metrolink scheme is that the BR Bury line was far beyond life-expired but (as ever) HM Guvmint flat refused to allow BR to spend its own money on the rebuild that was essential, and the Altrincham branch was in almost as poor condition. BR wasn't allowed to spend money, Greater Manchester would be allowed to providing it wasn't on heavy rail and could be camouflaged with providing a Picc-Vic link, et voila... Metrolink! The twenty-first century expansion hasn't been hurt by Manchester becoming the "acceptable face of the north" for southern organisations - including of course the civil service - moving out of London to the provinces. The never-ending saga of Leeds' always-refused attempts to get funding for any form of enhanced public transport demonstrates what government in Whitehall thinks of the less-acceptable face of the north.
Wouldn't it be marvellous if THE UK had a government that would invest in transport solutions to the country, imagine a tram, light rail revolution, a system that would pay for itself, providing employment, and potentially coupled with a new council houses initiative and suddenly the mistakes of Neoliberalism are cleared up. If only there was a Labour government to fix Thatcher's obsession...
I think every metro area of more than 300,000 people should have a tram line at the very least. Meanwhile cities of over a million people like Leeds have absolutely nothing other than Victorian era heavy rail. This country is so behind the rest of Europe in the public transport department.
@@lordgemini2376 absolutely, yet we are still being told that the freemarket capitalism is going to save the country, from what I don't know, but as you rightly highlight there is still large parts of the country (often in the North that have been left behind London, and even London has been left without any serious housing for the people that live there, the only tram is in bloody Croydon, also known as the police you are unlikely to want to go, such a shame because imagine the sight seeing potential for taking in the city, plus the reduction in polluting transport in the big smoke actually trying to cut its smoke. 🙂
No party has been willing to invest into such initiatives across the country. Only now we are beginning to see something with the cross party support for ″levelling up″, but it's still backwards. How does a city like Birmingham get trams when even smaller cities across Europe get Underground lines?
It really is sad how little rail is utilised outside of London. The Manchester trams are brilliant, but still massively lacking for a city of that size. And Manchester is lucky to have such a system at all, there are so many sizable cities that have no light rail system at all, and depend entirely on a flimsy bus service and horribly overpopulated roads. The government keeps investing in widening roads and developing electric cars, but it should be clear as day that investing in public transport, especially rail, is crucial. We can't keep pretending to be Americans. There simply isn't enough space in this country for everyone to have a car.
“...there are so many sizable cities that have no light rail system at all,...” Leeds, for instance. Even in America we can’t keep pretending to be Americans anymore!
I live fairly close to Manchester, and when I visit the city I often use the Metrolink. It’s awesome to see you talk about something so close to home for me!
The first time you see rail platforms with people sitting on the edge and walking up the track, it's a bit unnerving. Manchester is an excellent place to be. You need to spend a few nights there and explore. There are some amazing clubs and even a statue of Alan Turing sitting on a bench. He can hold your bike while you sit beside him and play with your Apple or Android and have a mate take a pic. The best kebabs on the planet were from Vanilla (Fudge? Spice?) on Bridge St. When the new track was being laid through Exchange Sq., you had the amazing sight of the current road level about 2 feet above the old one, complete with cobbles and original track, the construction trench being an industrial archeologist's dream. The old rail was being piled up inside the barrier but you could have slipped a worker with an angle grinder a few quid to cut off a section. I thought of that but I had my bicycle and too much to carry already. What got me was that the original pavement was at current level with the original shop frontages. The Arndale Centre is on the opposite side so there must have been extensive relevelling. There is excellent archive footage from about 1901 by Mitchell and Kenyon of exactly this location. There is exposed original tram track in Manchester that was never lifted. I believe the largest section is near a park. The big downside of all this, is that the trams don't take bikes, and the attitude to them is a bad as the French to public lavatories.
A lot of London streets still have the tram tracks and cobbles beneath the Tarmac. It would have been a traffic nightmare to close the roads to lift them, easier to close only at night and tarmac straight over. Cursed today by the utilities companies when making repairs. Some roads they were lifted, the ones that had wooden blocks between the rails and tracks instead of cobbles to deaden the noise of the trams. They and the short individual sleepers were creosote soaked Maple and London coal merchants at the time in the 50's sold them so they could be split and used for kindling as burned very easily to light wet coal. Coal merchants loved wet coal as heavier so less coal needed to fill a 1cwt (50kg) sack.
Bikes are not allowed on our trams in Munich and quite right too. There is just not enough space on a tram (or a bus). I imagine there's a public safety aspect too.
They did a lot of levelling around there when building the extension to the Arndale over what was once Cannon Street. I remember the old bus terminal being under there and the long ramp up into the car park (that's still there... the car park that is). It was a pretty filthy and unpleasant place to be with all those diesel fumes in such a confined space. The middle area was open to the air but it still felt rather claustrophobic in much the same way the original Arndale building itself still does compared to the newer part. 70's architecture really didn't like big open windows and natural light. I think it was partly down to the real threat back then of a nuclear war, so these places were build as make shift shelters too. It would make sense when you consider how chunky the reinforced concrete walls are.
@@1258-Eckhart Bikes are allowed on Edinburgh trams and remember that the Manchester trams are hybrids that replaced train routes where bikes were allowed. Commuters who use train and bike are numerous and should be encouraged not penalised especially where there train has been replaced by a tram.
You should do a video on the Sheffield supertram which opened in 1994, they're still operating the original trams as well as new tram trains which run on a section of national rail network between Parkgate Rotherham and tinsley where it then joins the existing supertram network.
Go on do Glasgow next, you know you want to… Dedicated Subway 3rd oldest in the world and never expanded, largest suburban heavy rail network outside of London. Cancelled airport links after new platforms built at Central. The never ending arguments and lack of action over Glasgow Crossrail, to link Central and Queen Street and run through trains over the Clyde. Multiple abandoned tunnels both vehicle and rail. The video options are endless!
I find it quite astonishing that Glasgow International Airport has no rail connection to the city centre, despite the terminal being just a mile from the nearest rail line. There have been lots of cunning plans over the years, though. The latest being to build a tram-train link which could be operational by 2025, apparently.
That is a fantastic video. I used these trams some years ago when I went to the Manchester Festival and it was a fab service. I went to see Kenneth Branagh in Macbeth there and some of the stations were changed by announcements recorded by Ken. That was a nice touch too!
More please! The history of the Bury line is worthy of a video. There's footage on RU-vid of the Bury line as it looked before conversion and even a video showing the trains' final journey to be scrapped. The trains were unique and only one or two survive. Jago states that Metrolink construction started in 1991. That may be true but a huge amount of work was needed to prepare the streets by moving the services that would be covered by the new tramlines. That work was already well under way when I left Manchester in 1989.
Honestly, I wasn’t expecting this video, but it’s a welcome one! I’m essentially half way between both Liverpool and Manchester, so I’ve used the system 100s of times at this point. The history is so fascinating to do with it, and the extension proposals are even more interesting. Also, There’s still 2 working T68s in existence, both bound for the Heston Park Tramway eventually, one of which is publicly viewable at Crewe Heritage Centre. It’s quite interesting, I recommend going for a look if you get the chance!
Hello. Love your videos! This one was especially interesting, given how controversial street level trams often are among urban planners. My wife works for WABTEC (Westinghouse Airbrake, with which I'm sure you're familiar from sticking your head under many locomotives over the years). She has visited Bombardier's Pittsburgh office many times and has had scores of phone meetings with their employees in the US and Canada. I can tell you for certain that it is 'Bomb-Bar-Dee-A' (emphasis on the last syllable, which is long A sound).
You managed to find one of those particularly quirky quirks of English/English place names with Altrincham. Basically the normal pronunciation treats the "c" as a "g", and the usual 'um for ham, it's for sure not a ch sound
Nice video jago, have you ever considered covering the Tyne and Wear metro up here in Newcastle? It’s a big example of what you’ve said about using existing rail routes for light rail services, and it’s unique in how it shares track with mainline heavy rail, making it so that there’s 2 ways to travel between Newcastle and Sunderland using largely the same route
Great video. Its pronounced Bomb-bard-yea. French-Canadian company out of Quebec, responsible for jetskis, snowmobiles, LRT's, subways and trams. I think they do tanks and air trams as well.
You genius, Jago! I’ve started doing more work in Manchester and intend to use the metro on my next trip (because, nerdy reasons…). Thank you for you doing this video, it’ll provide a lovely background info for me :)
The trams kinda remind me of the ones in Istanbul on the t1 line, they are some of my favorite trams, but my faivrote are from Zagreb (where im from) and Athens (where i live).
They could do with having a word with the authorities of a certain metropilis which you likely passed through En-route, which after 23 years has a single line, extended three times, but with costs and timescales for each of the extensions atrocious. There's even talk of scaling back the proposed second line due to escalating costs (despite the bulk of the route being on a former rail corridor)...
To be fair the 2nd line′s budget has been unexpectedly eaten up by the rapid rise in the cost of energy I believe. I don't think there is much the authorities could do about it.
The company name Bombardier is pronounced "bom-BAR-dee-ay" (family name of the founder, pronounced as he did) but the anglicized pronunciation of the word is "bom-bar-DEER." That said, since the RAF never called that flight crew position by that name (as did the USAF), why don't you just call the company "Bomb Aimers"?
Something which was announced just a few days ago (don't blame you for not including it due to time) was a new line between Bury and Rochdale via Heywood. A similar route was actually proposed before they build the Oldham-Rochdale line as a way for trams to get to Rochdale via Bury, without going through Oldham. Would love to see some more videos on the topic.
Very interesting topic to explore - the trackbed obviously remains as part of the East Lancashire heritage railway. A recent proposal for metrolink or heavy rail extension to Rawtenstall (north of Bury) drew local support but strong opposition from the steam railway operators - I imagine any proposal for mixed-use of the line between Metrolink and steam would be difficult to negotiate. Unfortunately effective mobility is far more important to towns like Heywood than a tourist attraction.
@@Kilaskwiralagain If the Hertigate Route could be run out to Waterfoot and Bacup (as I think it was) instead that might be better swap for the Heywood section. Quite why both could not run to Rawtenstall I dont really know ( if tram can use battery to avoid ohle use for that bit
I must take issue with your pronunciation of Bury, Altrincham and Bombardier. Just because I believe them to be wrong. Other than that, most enjoyable. I’m almost tempted to return to Manchester just to ride the Metrolink. Almost.
The Bombardier company name is pronounced the French way, as "Bom-BAR-dee-ay". It was founded in 1942 by Joseph-Armand Bombardier, the French-Canadian man who invented the snowmobile. Snowmobiles were its first product.
Bombardier's origins lie in Quebec (they started out making sno-cats) so it is pronounced as a French word, with the stress on the second syllable (Bom-BAR-dee-eh) and not the third as it would be in English (bom-bad-EER)
Nice coverage :3 Im very interested to see our Bee Network come into action. As a local I use the trams daily, they are so helpful and useful to have...and I love the sounds they make. But there are many areas still in GM like Bolton, Maccelsfield and Stockport that are crying out for a tramlink and would be so damn helpful to have.
@@suzw7154 its a bit further out yes but the Elizabeth Line goes to Reading, whats the difference? Plus intergration would still help, bring travellers, shoppers and help local economies. People have also suggested metrolink stretches to St Helens, Wigan, Preston and even Blackpool.
Arizona has copied Englands and Irelands light rail we have the same Trams they have in Ireland but copied the infrastructure of England. It took forever to get it and we don’t have that at many lines. It goes from Mesa,Az to Phoenix and we are getting a connection station about 5 miles from my house.
Great video. Would love to have more tram videos from you. Metrolink is the perfect example of a hugely successful system that has reached enormous size in a very short period of time, because of determination, risk-taking and ongoing investment. I doubt we'll ever get another example of this in the UK, given the culture of short-term thinking and kicking things into the long grass. Incredible that the central section was only opened a year after construction began. Look how long it's taken for a 500m section in Blackpool to open - four years and counting? Of course, it's very sensible that a second city stretch opened to relieve congestion. Having alternate routes through the centre is also a way to divert trams if work is needed on one section. The problem with UK light rail systems, particularly trams, is that they operate more like regional systems with one core route through the centre and several branches shooting off once outside the centre. This leaves no room for problems. In Europe - where old tram systems were kept - they have complex urban networks that have multiple routes throughout the city itself, thus allowing trams to be diverted if needed and providing a genuine urban service. UK tram systems are - let's be honest - done a bit on the cheap: one central section with a few new stops and then spliced on to old railway lines (with some exceptions). Such is the love affair with driving and restricting freedom, planners are terrified to build street-running sections for fear of upsetting the Jeremy Clarksons of the world. If only the lines were never removed. The destruction of thousands of miles in the 40s and 50s was a wholesale tragedy, largely orchestrated by the motor industry plus our post-war fetish with "new" (ditto the U.S. and Australia). Look where that short-term thinking got us. The last traditional tram line closed - I think - in 1960 and just 20 years later light rail was back. And it's BomBARDier for trains and trams and BombaDIER for the beer. I once got a bad telling off for ordering a pint of the former. 😉
It's actually rather soothing like the passage of the seasons, the regularity with which someone suggests a monorail in the UK public transport infrastructure and the inevitability of the suggestion being shelved and never mentioned again. If anyone actually built a monorail it would seem wrong somehow.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 Exactly what I was (kind of) going to say...The Simpsons 'Marge vs. the Monorail' episode (from where this ditty originates) seems to be a surprisingly intelligent look at dodgy monorail schemes.
That or a cable car, which is quite possibly the worse type of transit system imaginable if you actually want to get somewhere in an hurry, unless that somewhere is the summit of a mountain.
@@theblah12 Cable cars have their advantages, but these are unrelated to their functioning as a transportation system usually. They don’t require much land or complicated construction so they are relatively cheap. They are also rather quick to build since most of the complicated parts come preassembled from the factory. This means that a group of politicians who are on the ball can come into office, push through a cable car system, and have a working system in place before the next election cycle. They were a number of systems put in in Central and South America over the last 20 years or so for these reasons. And hey they were often in hilly or mountainous areas so they sometimes cut an hour or more of the daily commute of people making them all the more popular.
Love your work Jago! Especially love that you came up to the greatest city in the universe! Next time you come up be sure to include a stop at the Heston Park tram museum as they still have the original line in the park in situ!! 😍😍
I agree Charlotte and also Jago could actually drive a tram there if he gets the right weekend. (Driver for a fiver. I think it's a tenner now, but still excellent value.) Certainly more of a chance perhaps than him getting to drive an underground train down in London. They are an incredibly friendly bunch there too. (Unlike a certain similar tram museum in Derbyshire I could mention). Anyway, yes, Heaton Park tramway is excellent.
Aka the Ordsall Chord. It only took 170 years! In a classic government move, it's not really used all that much because the stations it links got no upgrades to cope with any additional traffic from it.
Love seeing a video about the places right on my doorstep, but it pains me to hear someone say Altrin-cham (not altrin-gum) and burry (instead of berry) haha
Great video Jago. You should do a video on Birmingham New St. Station(s). The original featured the largest roof in the country... until St. Pancras was built!
Nice try with the pronunciations, but no actual cigar. The locals do indeed tend to pronounce “Bury” more like “burry” than “berry”, but it’s “oltringum”, if you see what I mean.
Great video. Very concise 🙂 If you go back, I'd love to hear your take on the Odsall Curve. And if you're up north, how about a look at Sheffield trams & tram/trains?
Summary: The Ordsall curve is a further stress on the already overloaded Castlefield Corridor between Deansgate and the two measly Piccadilly south side platforms. The DfT has been umming and arring about this for the same time it takes to build four complete motorways.
Metrolink really needs an orbital route to link the satellite towns together. At the moment the network is great at getting people to/from central Manchester. But travel between neighbouring towns is a pain and impractical with metrolink or requires several bus changes. A route from Bury - Heywood - Rochdale - Oldham - Ashton - Stockport could be done largely on little or dis used railway lines like the ELR line from Castleton to Bury. Or the Stockport to Stalybridge line which sees one heavy rail train per week. Spurs could also be made to bring places like Middleton onto the network too.
M5000s are still being delivered today - 2018 was the most recently placed order of 27, the depot at Queens Road sees a truck arrive with a new one roughly every third Saturday.
It's kinda mind-boggling that this old design is still being produced. The german cities of Cologne and Düsseldorf already have the K5000s (almost simulator to the M5000) successor in service
@@dornsmichel_1364 The K5000s are actually the original design and predecessor to the M5000, as the first series entered service in 2003. There was a second series in the early 2010s. Cologne and Düsseldorf are currently introducing the actual successor to the K5000, the HF6. But it is indeed surprising that Manchester is still acquiring trams that in terms of design and technology are by now over 20 years old.
Fondly remember when the met began operating. The panic of people worrying they’d get mown down. It’s a great way to get to know Manchester and the burbs spending some time on one.
I'm genuinely amazed there are so few incidents involving the trams running into or over things (and people), especially given how busy the centre of Manchester is. That one corner on High Street/Market Street (you know the one, the one where everyone runs for their life rather than wait to make sure it's clear) is especially fun as you hear the tram heading towards it before you ever see it!
People were so 'touchy-feely' about using the term 'tram', preferring 'light rail'. I was so pleased when that difficult term reverted to the sensible word 'tram'.
Having worked in Manchester I can attest to its fantastic tram network. Arriving at the airport, the tram provides a far superior route to the city centre stations, Victoria and Piccadilly, than the TPE rail link.
it's grim up north - which is why Charles Dickens was originally tasked with coming up with a proposal back in the 1840s. The plan fell through, of course, but he kept the name of his proposal in the title of his book, the Picc-Vic Papers. Not a lot of people know that.
It'll be interesting to see how the system evolves in future. Eventually more lines are going to cause congestion in the city centre again, and some lines perform a lot better than others because they have much less street running. One solution is to do what Karlsruhe and Stuttgart did and tunnel beneath the most congested areas, probably beginning with a Piccadilly-Victoria-Deansgate link, maybe put that abandoned station under the Arndale Centre to good use. Another option is to do what Sydney did and build a separate medium capacity metro system that runs on either new lines or converts some of the grade separated lines with the same tunnels. Manchester is still growing, and if it wants to reduce its still persistent congestion problem it's going to have think bigger eventually. Also unfortunately Get Me There has been an utter failure in terms of a smartcard. You can't just use it like an Oyster card, how it should have worked, you have to load tickets onto it through a horribly buggy app, like what some TOC's have for season tickets, but much worse. So pretty much nobody uses it (unless they've fixed things recently).
There is no abandoned station under the arndale. The arndale was built with some space reserved where the escalator shaft down to the station could be built. That is a very different thing.
A city centre tunnel is planned in the next decade or so, Possibly Cornbrook - Sand Hills or Salford Crescent - Ardwick. There are plans to introduce trams trains so hopefully we'll see services such as Warrington to Glossop going from one end to the other using these tunnels in the not so distant future 👍
@@lordgemini2376 Yeah, I got the impression that might be heavy rail (at least for Salford Crescent-Ardwick), which would certainly improve congestion on the Castlefield corridor and numerous suburban rail services (or tram train if that's what they turn into), but won't do much for the metrolink lines. Manchester could probably do with both a "crossrail" and metrolink tunnels, but I get the feeling it'll have to pick one or the other.
The route from Hazel Grove Needs to Join if not the tram network, at least to have a tram frequency ( though this will impact the 192 Bus, but serving the hospital and poss some new housing development on the existing park and ride car park and sainsburys could be done adding 1000 housing units as flats.
Man, coming from a city that has 12ish light rail stations after 20+ years, and once spent a billion dollars on two miles of tunnel, it's nice to see a place that's actually competent when it comes to building these sorts of things.
@@imtiaz3554 I don't think the currency of Birmingham is denoted in dollars. Except in the Rag Alley, perhaps, and even then only if dealing with someone of a certain age with a genuine Brummie accent. Not that you'd get much for half a dollar nowadays!
Bombardier is a French-Canadian company, so it's ideally pronounced: Boh(ñ) (like 'good' in French, with a nasel sound instead of an English 'n'); Bahr (where the 'r' is like the back of the tongue _barely_ touching the top of the upper palette)- Dyay (where the d and y run together, sort of the way 'p' and 'r' run together in 'pray').
Being a Melbourne boy, I'm occasionally bemused by UK efforts at creating tram "networks" But I have to say that Manchester has done much better than other British cities that only have a couple of lines. But there is no danger of Manchester dethroning my home town as the tram centre of the world... yet.
All of the major UK cities do. Birmingham is massive but only has one small tram line, Metrolink is barely even underground, and Glasgow only has one tiny line.
@@56independent42 It will never happen, the people of the UK are terminally addicted to cars and that's just the way the government and its corporate "sponsors" want it. The sabotage of HS2 might as well be the final nail in the coffin for any hope of decent public transport outside of London since public opinion of rail projects is in the toilet. Meanwhile people are buying bigger and bigger SUVs, and multiple of such cars per household, so any funding or road space taken up by anything but nice wide lanes for cars will be incredibly unpopular.
Well done on your pronunciation of Bury. Most people say 'Berry' but Bury is correct. Altrincham however is pronounced 'alt ring em'. Thank you Mr Hazzard for your brief look at our city. You're welcome back any time.
Very enjoyable, thanks! It's also possible now to travel between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria directly by train, the Ordsall Chord directly linking Victoria to Oxford Road and Piccadilly having been completed in December 2017. If you are visiting again, the Metrolink line to Salford Quays and Media City is well worth doing, as is a visit to The Lowry exhibition, theatre and gallery space - a nice place to have tea and a sticky bun after looking at the matchstick men paintings.
For someone like me living in south Manchester this has made a different, there are now more trains going through Piccadilly and heading north. Alternatively it is often possible to get the train to Salford Crescent and change train (a much simpler station to negotiate than either Piccadilly or Victoria) and pick up a train to (say) Clitheroe.
I'm delighted to see my adopted home city featured - and hear that you've enjoyed making content here! We have our own "abandoned stations", and all sorts of small quirks & oddities across the Metrolink network as well (although possibly not to the depth London manages with the 130 extra years of history) - I'm sure you could make some excellent videos from it, and there's lots of Mancunians who's be happy to guide you - although I'd (like others) love to see a collab with JenOnTheMove, whose videos I think you'd enjoy.
Liverpool and Manchester Railway was the world's first inter-city railway and it's original Manchester terminus, now a museum survives as the oldest passenger station. Therefore Manchester has a headstart over London in railway heritage.
@@thomasburke2683 It does, but with the Metrolink only making its 30th birthday this year - London might be winning that point.| Bet the esteemed Jago could make some great content on "The History of The Railways" with footage from up & around MOSI and Liverpool Road though!
Thank you for this refreshingly non London-centric video! You're forgiven for butchering a couple of place names lol: At least you didn't attempt Besses o' th' Barn or Irlams o' th' Height! Some of our local spellings can be somewhat misleading...... ........maybe they should consider altering 'em ? :)
The Greater Manchester area has a population marginally larger than Greater Birmingham: 2.6 million compared to 2.44 million. However, this includes built-up areas that are not strictly part of Manchester, so in reality it's NOT the second biggest anything. The City of Birmingham itself is TWICE the size of the City Manchester with a population of 1.145 million as opposed to Manchester's 552, 000. The City of Manchester all too often conflates itself with Greater Manchester, the metropolitan county and combined authority which includes the neighbouring City of Salford and eight other metropolitan boroughs that broadly define the conurbation. According to the 2021 census, Greater Manchester had a total population of 2.868 million.[34] This is nonetheless marginally smaller than the equivalent metropolitan county and combined authority of the West Midlands, which comprises the cities of Birmingham, Coventry, Wolverhampton, and four metropolitan boroughs, with a total combined population of 2.92 million.
Yes, places like Wigan and Bolton are very much separate towns. The city of Manchester tries to bundle them in with Manchester. The _city_ of Manchester itself, inside the city borders, is quite small. It is about the size of Leicester. In the 1970s metropolitan counties creations Merseyside was proposed, to be 40% larger than it ended up. Gtr Manchester (SELNEC which sounds better) was not cut being much larger than Merseyside. If the original proposed Merseyside borders are used, which are in the socio-economic sphere of Liverpool, it is about the same size as Gtr Manchester. HMG opposed the word _Liverpool_ being in the name of the new metropolitan county. However the more relevant _Liverpool City Region,_ has emerged with its own metro-mayor which is Merseyside and Halton. You are right, Manchester takes every opportunity to big itself up.
Great metro system. Although having lived there, I do think it is missing a link to the universities and student areas, the traffic down oxford road can be awful.
Bombardier is a Canadian company located here in Montreal. It's always pronounced "Bomb-Bar-Dee-Yay". It's funny how we've often heard others, particularly Americans, pronounce it as "Bomb-Ba-Deer", but that's not correct. It's "Bomb-Bar-Dee-Yay". Great channel. Greetings from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada! I've been to Manchester and been on the Metrolink when I visited the BBC at MediaCity UK in Salford!
Yeah it was influenced by German Stadtbahn, which were particularly in fashion at the time; the new vehicles are virtually identical to ones used on Cologne's Stadtbahn.
As a Leeds/Bradford resident this makes me very angry as we had an excellent tram/trollybus sevice in the 50's but then the developers and cars came along to spoil that! Overthe last 30 plus years numerous schemes have been proposed and always scuttled by the government and yet here we are surrounded by other cities with new networks !! What ever happened to "levelling up"?
“Levelling up” is a very recent phrase and I think even BJ would be challenged trying to explain it. Bradford kept its trolleybuses until March 1972 and were operated by the corporation . I would imagine that by that time, plans for PTE’s were quite advanced in readiness for the South and West Yorkshire Metropolitan Counties (1974). Towns and cities would have little say on current and future operations when the new councils were introduced.
