I firmly believe that anyone who identifies as a natalist hasn't actually thought about the issue deeply enough. I will forever resent the fact that life was imposed upon me and I yearn only for the void.
That''s a solid argument. I'm curious if you've experienced the profound effects of psychedelics before because you are spot on 😂 while it is the single most profound experience I've had in my short life thus far, I never wanna have that kind of experience again and surely wouldn't give it to someone without their consent
tbh I don't see the analogy imposing an experience on someone requires that this someone already exists, and that they could have also exist without the experience Am I getting something wrong about this argument? because in my understanding it just sounds like "we should not bring children into this world because we cannot ask for their consent"
No, it's not that. Predicting future is impossible so you cannot predict whether your future child will be healthy, lucky, smart, successful. It's basically gambling, excessive optimism, at a casino. Why taking the risk?
The argument is indeed that we should not bring children into this world because coming into existence contains pain and we do not have their consent for bringing them here. We can easily change the analogy to make sure that people are forced into psychedelics during their full range of existence, so there is no moment that they exist without the forced experience of psychedelics. This obviously does not reduce the unethical nature of the act. So the analogy still works.
Thanks for elaborating. I'd say this argument is not a strong one because "consent" implies choice and nobody can agree or disagree to anything before they exist. Which is the key difference to the psychedelics case, where you would be imposing a painful experience onto an individual that undoubtedly already exists, and that could have undoubtedly had a better time without that experience. Antinatalism makes lots of good points but this one never sounded logical to me
I don't think it's that simple. I believe one can actualy make a pretty strong case to reconcile antinatalism and the Bible. In the Old Testament, Ecclesiastes is not too positive about life (Ecclesiastes 4:2-3 ; 6:3). In the New Testament, Paul wishes that everybody stay unmarried as he was (1 Corinthians 7). There are many more passages.
@@Hidra1isk I admit you are right. But I still believe the "Be fruitful and multiple" should be nuanced. A Jew or Christian doesn't have to give birth. And it could be that there are good reasons for not having children.
So you’re not….completely pro-life? If you know what I mean? You’re religious you mentioned, but you’re an antinatalist, you’re pro life (assuming for already living beings) but when it comes to a woman being pregnant…you’d rather have her not have the child? Is that correct? I’m pro choice (when it comes to pregnancy and all that) and an atheist, so I guess we’re different when it comes to that, since to stop procreation is not something you can’t oppose on people either. Which is why I sometimes think antinatalism is a nice idea and philosophy to think about, but it’s not sustainable in any kind of society, ethically speaking.
You misundersood my position. I am completely pro-life (so a woman being pregnant, she should keep the child so as not to kill an innocent person), and I am not religious (I just said I believe in God). Also we are not imposing anything on anyone. We are just making the claim that starting a life is immoral.
@@SophyPhilia I don’t know who “we” is but I’m an antinatalist myself so I’m “kind of” on board with the whole “imposing life on others BY parents/breeders, not “you” or “we” and starting life is pretty “immoral”. But thanks for filling in the blanks. What I meant by ethics or ethical is yes, in my viewpoint and probably in yours as well as some other folks, it’s unethical to bring life into this world or onto this planet, but it’s also unethical in a way to force people to not procreate. I’m against totalitarianism and dictatorship, so antinatalism in itself worldwide is pretty unachievable.
