Marcus Borg - What is God? 

I don't get it. Grew up Christian here. Went to Christian school. Top student. Studied theology. Read lots of biblical scholars works. Read biblical historians works. Sounds like Borg is just stretching the word reality to mean god just so he can keep saying god. So he points to the fabric of reality and says that's god look. Well that's reality. His mystical experiences, we know that's all chemicals in the brain. You can get that going with awe like the sublime movement with people heading to the alps, electromagnets on the skull can create these experiences, kundalini yoga can do this. We know this is a phenomenon of the mind. Why add things that have no basis in what we can know. It's obvious it's just an interpretation of the experience rooted in ignorance of what's really going on.

@@bottosrob what you speak is also chemicals in the brain. Does it make it just a phenomena of the mind?

ben what the kundalini yoga, the feeling of awe in the alps, and electromagnets? Yes that’s ways to produce these mystical experiences. Depending on what religion you are will effect your experience. You could see Ganesh, Alah, Batman, Horus or God. Just depends on what’s already in your mind.

@@bottosrob There is no conclusion on the nature of consciousness. Your suggestion is that spiritual experiences are just manifestations of a purely physical phenomena due to chemical reactions. That doesn't get us anywhere. Infact chemical changes are modes through which spiritual manifestations happen. Man has to go beyond (or shed) his physical and mental reality to experience the spiritual reality. My point is, to say spiritual reality or experiences are products of chemical changes is either avoiding or misleading its causal explanation. Same as saying I got angry at my mom, because there was chemical reaction in my brain, or my anger is a phenomena of my mind.

ben I hear you buddy. I did get mad at my mom because the chenilles in my brain. My mom is real, I am real, and the situation is real. We know that and can record it. There’s no meta added in top so bad example but I get what your saying. So we are having experiences in all cultures with all different exercises. What is going on? Is Ganesha real because a Hindu had an experience and felt and saw him? That was the most true experience he ever felt. How about all the others? Do they all exist? It could be that the spirit world exists. That’s 1 explanation. It could also be true that our psychology is tricking us in ways. That we can test for. And we have. And we have found our psychology does trick us. The problem is if you only read and learn about these things from the christians you’ll never hear of these things. One thing our minds do is projection of human traits onto nature and objects. “That door bit me” “ the river is angry”. When you hear a thunder storm that’s incredibly violent you naturally feel a social interpretation of it. Which would be someone yelling and swinging. But that’s an error in cognition. Next thing would be pattern recognition. We know this gets us into trouble everywhere in life. The catchers fallacy in the courtroom. Gambling. It’s the one place rats can out perform us. We see patterns in things that aren’t patterns. Like the man on the moon. Or a cloud that looks like a dog. I can go on but that’s because I was curious as to what is the truth. Sure the hallucination May be a God but it defiantly is some other things that science has figured out. Take the experience and subtract what science knows and if your left with anything it’s either “the god of the gaps” or it’s god. But we have to try and debunk ourselves or we will remain as a child. When I was a child I thought like a child, now I am a man.

Ibn Arabi time!

DiscoveredNotCreated you can say that is hell and I agree, I think that is a taste of hell just as there are tastes of heaven. Biblically, Hell is separation from God and God is, in Plato’s sense of God, the greatest possible being- which can be described as fully good. So separation from God is separation from good. That is hell.

Hell is separation from God. You don’t want to be in that place.

@@ronward5698 Full separation of God is a logical impossibility. Hell is temporary chastisement. We read our natural inclination towards revenge back into the bible. God is love and omnipotent. As long as those words mean anything, eternal hell is impossible (it isn't even biblical). I recommend reading "That all shall be saved" from David Bentley Hart in this case 🙂 God is greater than our Imagination

@@anahata3478 With respect, logic is irrelevant. Separation from God is clearly stated in the Bible. 2 Thess 1 7-9 .... He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Cynthia C. Does - yes

Name it as you want.

Some mystics are comfortable with some of the attributes and symbolical references, some aren't. Some are more kataphatic, some are more apophatic in their approach. It also depends on the degree of agency one ascribes to Being/Becoming itself.

The only cogent theism.

@@Duragizer8775 I love your profile picture 🙂

I sometimes think that Paul's description of Jesus living within him is what the gospels mean by the resurrection of Jesus. Because Jesus told the apostles to expect that after he died, he would be in God and that he would be in them.

@@johnstewart7025 Yes, with God because he went up to sit at the right hand of God, in God as we are in Christ, which is has many different aspects, and in and with Christians because they have been given the Holy Spirit, the very Spirit of Christ, through whom he talks and empowers and helps us.

Paul never knew Jesus. He was never taught by him, never had conversations with him, and was never his disciple. He was a self-proclaimed apostle that promoted his personal beliefs "about" Jesus but never knew the historical Jesus. The words of Paul are not the words of Jesus. It doesn't matter what Paul said.

@@JNeil1975 spoken like a true unbeliever 👌 He actually did encounter the historical Jesus, as Paul was living and active at the height of Jesus’ fame and ministry. Most likely even present in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified. And eventually encountered the risen Christ on the road to Damascus. Not to mention, even after this, he was caught up into the third heaven to encounter Him yet again.

Knowledge is powerful. Blind faith doesn't amount to anything.

+Chiraq's Max Payne Why not?

+HaecceitasQuidditas considering the fact that their scripture would have to be based around human locations and individuals. Things they have never seen.

Chiraq's Max Payne Why couldn't the Christian God interact with them directly, give them their own scripture, etc?

+HaecceitasQuidditas because that would make the Bible inperfect

Chiraq's Max Payne I don't think so. Why would God be obligated to reveal to us what he does with some other creatures (if such creatures exist)? As far as I know, the Bible doesn't claim to be a record of everything that God has ever done anywhere.

Joel Falla John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.”

This reminds me of the C.S. Lewis talk about Men and Rabbits. The rabbit wants a better life now by being good, while the Man seeks transformation through belief in God.

You're pretty close to the truth in what you've succinctly and pointedly expressed . Thank you .

Or is it that you agree with Craig. How does know he is correct?

Craig was absolutely wrong.

Believing with the mind does not equate with KNOWING with the heart or spirit.

@@tonywilliams49 I watched their debate.

Because the belief that God had a son and needed that son to be brutally killed in order to be satisfied, murdered before forgiveness could br granted, is barbaric and primitive.

I have read just about everything Marcus Borg has written. You are simply wrong when you say he develops his understanding from his own mind, experiences, and philosophy. Actually, he was a thorough and competent New Testament scholar. How much of what he has written have you read? (I'm a Baptist minister who retired about a year ago after 50 years of active ministry.)

Mason Davis EXACTLY!

bayreuth79 "What would God's forgiveness mean if there was no possibility of wrath?" That’s a deep insight. Thanks. From some time I have started to see how hollow pantheistic thought is.

Forgiveness without wrath means that we don’t have to remain separated from presence of God and be in relationship with God again.

Exactly, you cannot have mercy without justice, and justice implies wrath. Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple after all. Borg was just another one of these ridiculous liberals who felt he understood the Christian religion better than 2,000 years worth of sages and Saints. Why? Because he had a mystical vision on an airplane...? Absurd!

Yeah, who created the Uncreated? Great question! I'll have to think about that one.

@@ObjectiveBob Some of the descriptions of the Christian God include the quality that we would find God totally satisfying. In other words, we would no longer question his existence.

"God is completed by the individual, fluent satisfactions of finite fact, and the temporal occasions are completed by their everlasting union with their transformed selves, purged into conformation with the eternal order which is the final absolute 'wisdom.' The final summary can only be expressed in terms of a group of antitheses, whose apparent self-contradictions depend on neglect of the diverse categories of existence. In each antithesis there is a shift of meaning which converts the opposition into a contrast. "It is as true to say that God is permanent and the World fluent, as that the World is permanent and God is fluent. "It is as true to say that God is one and the World many, as that the World is one and God many. "It is as true to say that, in comparison with the World, God is actual eminently, as that, in comparison with God, the World is actual eminently. "It is as true to say that the World is immanent in God, as that God is immanent in the World. "It is as true to say that God transcends the World, as that the World transcends God. "It is as true to say that God creates the World, as that the World creates God... "What is done in the world is transformed into a reality in heaven, and the reality in heaven passes back into the world... In this sense, God is the great companion - the fellow-sufferer who understands." - Alfred North Whitehead

@@Duragizer8775 Omg! Word salad.

@@ingenuity168 The best kind of salad.

The late Dr. Marcus Borg died January 21, 2015. I'm confident he and Jesus have had lots of conversation....or whatever communication is in the afterlife.

Borg has a PhD is word salat. I was legitimately trying to find a definition for god, I am still searching.

big claim...evidence please.

Den Brodie You can experience God for yourself if you want to. Go alone into the seclusion and privacy of your own bedroom, and humbly and sincerely ask God what His plan for you is. God bless.

+CharlesPhoenix that didnt work. when you say "sincerely ask". are you really saying that you must believe first?

SeekerOfTruth No, you can have doubts. Have you tried asking God for guidance?

CharlesPhoenix i have read the bible many times and ask every believer that i can. but if i wasnt raised with a god belief and still dont believe yet. how can i ask something that i have no reason to believe exists for guildance? can i just pretend and that is good enough? or do i actually have to believe before i can believe.

But are metaphors "just" metaphors?

He doesn't believe in a literal interpretation of the God described in the Bible. If such an interpretation is the only way you can comprehend God existing, you will continue to misunderstand.

Perfect description for the quintessential fundagelical.

How much of Marcus Borg have you read??

Not a syncretism. This kind of mystical experience and view of God is deeply found within all main denominations for Christianity, some very old. Nothing new, and he knows it.

On contraire, theistic vision of god is a heavy projection of humanities hopes and fears and it's much more primitive in scope. His panentheistic vision of god doesn't attach human characteristics to Him/It, and leaves much to mystery and direct experience which is permeated throughout all experiences. Mystery and immersion are much more humble way of approaching this topic than our projections and beliefs upon hypercosmic being and becoming.

true that

Simplistic.

2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time is coming when people will not put up with sound doctrine, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own desires, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander away into myths." Sadly, this sounds like Borg to me.

What an absolutely heartless and arrogant judgment.

You don’t know God.

Lol

@@ObjectiveBob Come on, Bob, I am basically quoting C.S. Lewis above, would you laugh at him? Borg was a liberal hack not worth listening to.

@@ObjectiveBob Let me put it another way, I discovered your channel when looking for lectures by the Orthodox theologian, James Cutsinger. Cutsinger was a traditionalist, so I assumed you were, and I guess I assumed wrong. Still, if you are into Cutsinger you must be at least aware of the traditionalist school of metaphysics of Frithjof Schuon and Rene Guenon. You would do well to read them, but of course they have nothing good to say about liberal Christianity. I am just surprised that someone who could on one hand post videos of a traditionalist like Cutsinger could then turn around and post videos of some absurd liberal like Borg. But perhaps I shouldn't be surprised as Schuon notes that such seemingly odd juxtapositions, such lack of discernment, are common in the modern world.