Christology is something that the early church fathers took interest in but the disciples weren’t going around asking people ‘what is your opinion on the nature of God and then you can be saved’. There’s not one example in scripture of the prerequisite of salvation having to be what your Christology is. Ofc we can have conversations about it but why do we harp on it and why do we quarrel about it?
@@ebiz2085Yes there is an example of Christology being absolutely important and necessary for salvation in the time of the Apostles. The Docetists accepted that Jesus was Divine but refused to believe that he was human. So the Apostle John excommunicated them from the church. The Gospel of John and the Epistles of John were written against Docetism. 1 John 4:3 "and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come (IN THE FLESH) is not of God". 2 John 7 "For many deceivers have entered into the world who confess not that Jesus Christ is come (IN THE FLESH). This is a deceiver and an antichrist" Docetism was a wrong Christology and anyone who believed in it was removed from the church and branded an Antichrist.
@@patrick953this right here!!! I’m gonna read up on this. I love how John starts out 1 John. He starts it out using apologetics and giving a defense “God is light and in Him is no darkness at all”.
@@ebiz20852 Corinthians 11:3-4 3I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily.
@@Ericabuckla none literally say he is one "person" but it says he is one God. None say God is numerically 3 persons. Jesus Christ says the father is God many times though.
I don’t know anything about Don, but saying the Father, Son and Spirit are 3 different PEOPLE is not orthodox. The word “person” in trinitarian theology does NOT mean person in the modern sense of the word. Three different people would be tritheism. I’m sure he didn’t mean that, but the language is misleading.
19:18 this what they all do to Marcus , that Ruslan guy did the something, they try to bring ppl in in gang up. Jp was being was slick with that one. Marcus sees what is going on
@JP THE UNCUT I only say that if God speaks of the God Head and Jesus teaches us the Godhead there should be no confusion or debate, because it's in the Bible instead of uninspiring the Godhead then don't name call it anything else except the Godhead, just sad we rather lose a soul over a name than Saving a soul in Jesus Name, I think it's ignorance because the Godhead is real it's in the Bible no need to debate my honest opinion
Please enlighten me with this trinity scripture.......? What scripture that you have to confess Jesus is God to be saved... Help... This is crazy .....This convo is ugly Corey A. Minor running around bullying people.
2 Peter 1:1 To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with outs by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. Both the apostle Paul and the apostle Peter refer to Jesus as our “God” and Savior. Pretty straightforward
Hebrews 1:3 [Jesus] is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. This is not the description of any angel or any man, even a superhuman man. This is a description of God. Because Jesus is God.
Marcus keeps talking about what other people are saying but what is he saying? Every time he is asked a question he says well other people say this… we asking you to confess what you say.
Man.. I relate to Marcus so much. Like Marcus, my upbringing in the church was the oneness of Pentecostals, in the same organization from where Marcus comes from, and YES in the UPCI many people, leaders, ministers, and pastors are ignorant of what the Trinity is. And when I started visiting trinitarian churches is when I started to realize that the same way I believed the bible taught the Godhead is how trinitarian believers believed.. And the crazy part was that many oneness believers when they described the oneness they described it how a trinitarian would believe but call it the trinity.... It was so crazy...
When we hunger and thirst, wanting the truth, God knows and He will do the rest. The Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) is the Scholar. I had to sit down and listen to God. Ask Him questions. HE answers. It’s hard to still myself, but it’s a must for me. HE sees us through all the way; all the way through the narrow gate. 🙏🏾
The question of whether or not Jesus “ is” or “is not” The Father shouldn’t even be a thing. We are literally DUST in his presence. It’s somewhat pride-filled to suggest that we can assert, in the presence of his Holiness, that he is “not” the Father and “not” the Holy Spirit. In regards to the “Godhead” it’s not even our place to even utter that he “is not” . Jesus is the fullness of who the Father is and let that be it period. Would we tell that to his face on judgement day “hey Jesus you’re NOT The Father!!” “You’re NOT the Holy Spirit, you’re JUST the Son!!!”? It’s foolishness to even argue about this. Well then what spirit is Christ?!?! If you’ve seen Jesus you’ve seen the Father. They are one. Yes you can rightly divide those titles according to scripture but it’s not for us to assert that Jesus is “NOT” anything that pertains to the Father and Holy Spirit. He(being the Son) is just as much the Father than he is the Son in sense that The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father John 14:11. I believe we are over stepping a Holy boundary by declaring that Jesus “Is Not” anything unto the righteousness of God. My lips aren’t clean enough to declare that he is Not something that pertains to the heavenly things. Marcus seems like he was cornered into joining a thought group rather than just standing on the fact that what is written comes before our understanding. The obsession with the assertion of the “Trinity” word is more of a domination crusade rather than just letting the scripture say what it says and let it be amen. They have to come in and assert “Trinitarian” on what is already written before that word even existed. I find issue with that. Not in the sense that imma put someone in hell but how it is assuming an authoritative position in the faith. I can say the Father Sent the Son and the Holy Spirit was given and say Amen without even acknowledging a Trinity. There’s more mystery than what meets the eye and that understanding comes when you first just let what’s written be true before trying to nickname the sacred things of the scriptures. Seriously, who am I , a mere human to apply a NUMBERING SYSTEM to God? What authority do I have to declare that Jesus is the Second Person of the Godhead? And the Holy Ghost the third person?!? If that’s your way of trying to understand, okay cool. But why assert that as THE WAY to describe God and then put the measuring stick to another and say “you’re improving” It’s all pride to me and we must all humble ourselves. All these debates and cliques on RU-vid and in Christiandom. Men behind their books and theology. We gotta seek the Lord after the spirit and he will give understanding. When you close the book you’ll have to admit the word Trinity or “Trinitarian” or “Oneness” or “Binitarian” never once exited the mouth of Jesus and I can guarantee you Jesus will not entertain such lingo at the judgment seat. Imagine, Jesus saying “ I am the a Second Person of the Godhead”. That’s not written so won’t describe him that way. That’s how I roll. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Amen and amen. I won’t add nor take anything away from that. Stay with what’s written and ask God for the understanding on how to rightly divide according to what’s been written. God will bless your understanding this way
Is it just me or Marcus doesn’t really answer the questions? After his reply, I find myself wondering where in all of his “answer” did he actually answer the question.
The Athanasian Creed states that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all uncreated and eternal without beginning. They are also co-equal, co-eternal, and one in essence, nature, power, action, and will. The Bible refers to the Father as God in Philippians 1:2, Jesus as God in Titus 2:13, and the Holy Spirit as God in Acts 5:3-4.
@incorruptibleword4513 obviously you don't know the word of God it's not my job to make you believe that there's a God and his the Savior his name is Jesus Christ. Just like in today's Times you can call anything God it doesn't mean it's true you're actually make you look like an idiot or that you have no clue on what you're talking about. His given name, Jesus, already reveals his identity as the Savior. He also bears the very names of God (e.g., “God,” theos; “Lord,” kurios), and he is described by means of a rich variety of titles, such as “the Christ” (the anointed one), “the Good Shepherd,” “the light of the world,” and many more. Isaiah 9:6 ESV For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
@@WesternGrit1968 So you use the name of Jesus as a cover to condesend others. You didn't even answer the question. It's like you were insulted. It's ok to say you don't know.
@incorruptibleword4513 nope I wasn't insulted but when you speak to a fool long enough that says alot. You can believe what you like because one day you will be judged rather you believe that or not. You won't have a choice on that. Psalm 14 1 The fool[a] says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good. 2 The Lord looks down from heaven on all mankind to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. 3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. 4 Do all these evildoers know nothing? They devour my people as though eating bread; they never call on the Lord. 5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread, for God is present in the company of the righteous. 6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the Lord is their refuge. 7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord restores his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!
@@WesternGrit1968 wooh you have a ways to go. I hope one day the Lord frees you from religiousity and you come to know the living God in spirit through the real messiah. Peace
Everyone changes their doctrine way too much for me to even keep up anymore lol. Legitimately wouldn't be surprised if these two had the same exact debate in 2 years, but on opposite sides 😂
Corey is 100% correct. Marcus is in a deep delusion and being prideful. He's obviously being corrected but refusing it. You CANNOT claim to be a pastor and or teacher and not know the simple basics of the faith. HE IS UNQUALIFIED TO BE A PASTOR PERIOD. Do I believe Marcus loves God...absolutely 💯, but so do millions of other followers of Jesus. The difference is that they don't all claim to be a pastor or teachers of the faith...huge difference. No offense or harm intended here but this is the fruits of protesantism. Claiming "God told me this so it has to be correct". If 100 different people all claimed that "im right because God told me so" how do you then resolve he issue...I know...I'll just build my OWN church and preach whatever my interpretation of scripture is. This panel here is the result of it. I love Marcus and I know he loves the Lord but he desperately needs to receive the correction being presented before him and stop being ignorant.
So basically it’s the Word concept fallacy, to assume a word means one thing? Well tbf you Don’t need to use the Word trinity, you can you the Monarchia of the Godhead Of Triune Godhead. The Father is the True God , The son is the Begotton Logos of the True God, the Holy Spirit Pereced from the Father Through the Son. The Triune God. The Word God can be use to describe many thing. - it can be use to Describe the activities of the Being. Secondly it’s not that it’s three persons, the Trinitarian position use the term person to describe the consciousness. For example It says in scripture The Father is a witness The Holy Spirit is a witness And the Son is a witness You can’t be a witness without being a conscious entity. Remember these are just terms to Describe the One God or the activities of the One God. God is nothing like creation, to think you can understand God is foolish, however it doesn’t mean you can use analogies and Descriptions to lay understanding. Revelation 22:1 describes the Trinity on the One Throne. Just one of many examples Any other position from the trinity will contradict scripture, and if we Go base on scripture it will be illogical to not be Trinitarian.
Obey the gospel by Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, and be Baptized for The Forgiveness of Your SINS all of this is thru love all of this is faith thru grace, as noah beleived God and built/got on the boat we trust God and get remission baptism
Unfortunately, Don’s heart is too pure for this convo. Based off of how curious he’s been for truth, this convo does not seem helpful for him as Marcus is unfortunately dodging straight forward questions that Don is asking with sincerity and curiosity. Don himself asked Marcus if he wasn’t really comfortable talking about this topic because of how vague and indirect Marcus’ answers were. Marcus clearly doesn’t have a real Trinitarian stance and presenting that to Don just set him up to be stonewalled. As fragile as Dons journey is, this was not the move of the person to have him speak to. Praying for Don.
If you believe Jesus is God you will be judged the same as if you believe he is the son of God and the father is the only true God. If you believe the holy spirit is not the father or the sons spirit then you may have a problem because you are open to a spirit you call "God" that is OTHER than the father and sons spirit
I gave watch through the whole video, but the little i did hear, I saw that you guys built on you, believe, and not on the gospel of the kingdom. If we can go back to the basics of what the disciples teach, we all know that there is one GOD, and he (GOD) has a literal son, not that his son play a roll, but a son indeed which is Jesus Christ. Whenever Jesus Christ talks about GOD, he always calls him father, and this has nothing to do with Jesus being flesh. It is the truth. GOD gives Christ the fullness of the Godhead in order that he can dwell in us. GOD, at no time, becomes a man. He can not turn his power and turn it off, but Jesus can because GOD gives it to him.Jesus became a man with the nature of because he came forth from GOD some time in eternity past before anything came into existence. What i am saying is trinitirain tries to make Jesus GOD Almighty, and in doing so, Jesus has two natures, a human and God nature, because only GOD can give life. They forgot all of Jesus' words and replaced them with human understanding of GOD and the so-called understanding of the church fathers, which began in the second (2) century ignoring the truth by Christ and his disciples. Take a good look at the church. Any of the denominations from the second century to this, and you see no growth but a few who truly serve GOD in truth. The trinitirain separate GOD from his spirit and make Jesus Christ co equal person with GOD. GOD began to remove his children from all denominations, which denied " the begotten son of GOD " who ever denied GOD, and his son denied the true GOD. I am sorry I did not put verses. I am saying what is in the bible and not what theologians say. GOD is our savior and our righteousness. Only he can show us the truth through his spirit. I am not right. Read scriptures for yourself. When you are born again, you become a new creature, and your life changes,you become humble, meek, longsuffering,loving, peaceful, etc. You dont hate your fellow Christians. Brotherly is a key factor in Christianity, not bashing your fellow Christians. Growth is another great factor in your Christian experience. If other Christians dont believe what you believe, pray for them. Jesus said he would separate the weath from the tares, not us Christians. Thank you, guy, for reading my comments GOD our father, and his son Jesus keep you in Christ.
I don't understand why they keep beating this horse. If someone believes Jesus is God and was raised from the dead, they're saved, Romans 10:9-10. Blasphemeing the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin. Since when is understanding the fullness and nuances of the Godhead a salvation issue, where is the scripture? I have my own beliefs, I wouldn't subscribe to some of the doctrines out there, am I going to waste my time trying to hash out their salvation and Lord my beliefs over them, no. People are trying to play God in the lives of others.
@@JPuncut I don’t know you or what your ministry is about but your behavior I’ve seen is questionable. This was clearly some sort of click bait because I watched the live when Marcus was making it clear to you that he doesn’t care to be labeled as anything but a Jesus loving believer. Also, it was clear you lured him into a trap and put Corey on as if you wanted them to get into a divisive debate. Maybe I’m wrong but it’s cringy. It’s like the Pharisees who deliberately set traps and tried to bait Jesus. 🤔
Believing in the trinity is a heaven or hell issue. If u don’t believe that the son is eternal and he died on the cross then u believe that just a created creature shed blood which would be like me or any you dying.
20:37 😂😂 man this is just wild how they doing Marcus . I hear the sarcastic under tone in everything they say and it’s like they are trying to catch him in something.
Truth who Jesus Christ is matters it's literally what makes you a CHRISTIAN. CHRISTOLOGY #1 can't get that right then everything else is gonna be built on FALSE Foundation.
I’m 100 percent with Marcus. Why are people so caught up in a random word and a non salvation issue belief. There’s people dying everyday not knowing Jesus. Christian’s shouldn’t have debates on such a unimportant topic. I believe if you’re born again and you have the fruit in your life you’re a brother or sister.
The trinity is not an "unimportant doctrine", in fact it might be the MOST important doctrine. So much so that you could make the case those who dont believe in the trinity arent even christians in the first place. If you do not worship the triune God, we do not have the same God
This is an ignorant statement; you do know the doctrine of the trinity is what separate’s the gospel from every other religion right e.g Islam, Hinduism etc.? It is VERY MUCH a salvation issue in the long term. Why do you think the first Christians were so clear on this doctrine??
@@loveflowsfromife So if someone is born again, has an encounter with God, and that person's life is completely changed and are set free, but they never fully grasp the trinity. Based on what you're saying they're going to hell
God the father: All knowing, infinite God God the son Jesus Christ: Is god in a finite condition. Jesus Christ was the best of all creation. Without sin , no perversion from the will of the almighty god over all creation. (Transcending creation). My question would be in what condition did The Word exist in the beginning. Was that condition the same as the condition as God? God being outside of creation. Was The Word (Jesus) a creation of God? God knows our hearts. Our understanding is not what we should depend on. Believe, Faith, and Trust in Jesus Christ (The way, The Truth, and The life) is what we should be lead by.
JESUS is the Father, Son, & Holy Ghost. Colossians 2:9 (For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily). He doesnt have to be 3 people to complete 3 roles. John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. He laid down HIS life for his friends, Not HIS Sons life. ACTS 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with HIS OWN BLOOD. FATHER IN CREATION, SON WHEN HE PREPARED HIMSELF A BODY AND CAME IN THE FLESH. HOLY GHOST IS POURED OUT, OUT OF HIS SPIRIT INTO HIS PEOPLE/BELIEVERS/CHURCH. JOEL 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; ACTS 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Marcus don’t believe Jesus is God let alone distinct from The father, saying on tape Jesus was a thought 💭 in the father’s mind. Y’all need to quit playing and ask this man do he believe Jesus is in heaven with the father ……and ask that same question yourself….hallelujah
@@ShmaAdonaiEhadbelieving Jesus is God dude is not the requirement for eternal salvation believing that Jesus came in the flesh and the father raised him from the dead. So you have to believe there is another
@@Rumblealsojennings2929 If Marcus follows the oneness doctrine. The oneness doctrine teaches that God came in the flesh and that is Jesus Christ. I don't know what another you are referring to. The LORD said that he is GOD and there is no other (Isaiah 44:6).
@@Rumblealsojennings2929 this is a lie. Lord is God. You have to believe in your heart the LORD Jesus. If you don't believe Jesus is God you're going to hell.
Marcus don't apologize for not wanting to be identified as a trinitarian. All of these men are always saying stick to the bible, but they have been speaking against people simply because they don't want to be identified as a trinitarian. And just so I'm clear, the scriptures do not support 3 distint persons. I can easily show where Corey who i really like teaches doctrine that the bible doesn't say. That is a man made teaching. I myself will not be identified as a trinitarian. Stick to the word.
Where in the bible does it say you must believe Jesus is God to be saved? I read you must believe in the son of God and that the annointed one came in the flesh.
John 8:24: "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins." It's crucial to understand what he means by "I am he" in connection to Isaiah 48:12 - 16 12 “Hear Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. 13 Also, My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon, And His arm will be against the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him, I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful. 16 Draw near to Me, hear this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. So now Lord Yahweh has sent Me, and His Spirit.” Isaiah 12 is the proclamation that Jesus is referring to, "I am he" then in 16 God says "The Lord Yahweh has sent me and his spirit" If God is triune and the one speaking here is Jesus there's no problem, but otherwise is tough to explain😅
However my point is that we have to be sound in doctrine regardless if its something you need to be saved or not otherwise we get heresies that distort the truth
@@awake3083 Take your advice and humble yourself so you might admit you don't know instead of referencing a random scripture that does not answer the question.
@@keitumetsemodipa3012 That was a good try even if you are using eisegesis but if you were to read John 8 in context you will see that Jesus is saying he is the son of man and Son of God in that chapter. Who are You?” they asked. “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26 “I have much to say about you and much to judge. But the One who sent Me is truthful, and what I have heard from Him, I tell the world.” 27 They did not understand that He was telling them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what the Father(God according to Jesus faith) has taught Me. 29 He who sent Me is with Me. He has not left Me alone, because I always do what pleases Him.” And again 34 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Also a question for you. Jesus said in chapter 8 when asked who he's says he is. "just what I have been telling you from the beginning" what had Jesus been telling them from the beginning and where are some references?
It’s one thing to understand the trinity. But to reject it is another thing. Words have meaning. The church has defined trinity. Do you reject or subscribe to the triune God? I understand the desire for unity but that’s how strange doctrines come into the church - for example SDA and JW.
I wish Corey was able to finish his point about the 2 passages that Marcus is using out of context. Unfortunately, he was cut off. Marcus could’ve been able to understand that they’re not applicable to the argument about the Trinity.
Being a Trinitarian is not a requirement for salvation. The requirement is John 3:16. No where in there does it mention anything about NEEDING to be Trinitarian. I don’t deny the Trinity at all. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equally God (Yahweh), equally eternal, but distinct from one another, this is 100% what the Bible reveals, however, once again NOT a requirement for salvation as well as preaching. We technically preach the Trinity or at least we should every time we talk about God and the plan of salvation, but the highlight of salvation is Jesus. The Father chose His Son to be the mediator. Once again while the Trinity is a concept that every Christian should believe because it is the foundation of understanding who God, salvation is in Jesus, not the Trinity.
Okay, so Marcus didn't become a trinitarian buy simply just reading the Bible, because it's very obvious that the Bible teaches the trinity from Genesis to revelation lol oh boy 👀
Let's watch the trinitarians duck or get stuck and debunked on this one. The first commandment is what I use as my first premise and I use it as a boundary line so that I am directed by God as I acknowledge Him in all my ways. In the first commandment, God acknowledges Himself in the law as one person, with singular person pronouns, never in plural person pronouns. All doctrines or teachings concerning how many persons is God, whether one, or multiple persons, is subject to this wisdom from God. Now with this knowledge and understanding of God, who by His law has made me wiser than my enemies and given me more understanding than the common elders of today. 1. Who did Jesus say the Father is, according to John 17:1-3? 2. Godhead according to different versions of the Bible, is synonymous with the word divinity or divine nature, or deity, but it does not indicate a trinity doctrine. Do you agree, yes or no?
you kmow what I have seen is the spirit move in differen denominations like pentecostals and they might not get into depth on scripture on certain things but mainly stick and teach and talk about salvation but that doesnt mean they are wrong or not saved. Alot of denominations lack the power or spiritual movement. we have different denominations for a reason and we all need to learn from each other
You making modern church doctrine more important than what Jesus said. For example, Jesus said you have to be born of water and spirit in enter the kingdom. I believe Corey teaches you don't have to be baptized in water. That is a more serious issue and a salvation issue, in my opinion.
I agree with marcus, at the end of the day theology isnt as important as we think it is. If you believe that jesus died on the cross for your sins and rose 3 days later and you bear fruit that is all that matters. I dont think God well punish us if we get him wrong in what he truly is when he created us knowing that we are intellectually limited and he is not.
@@555chan I get what you're saying but if you trying to understand God leads to you saying that other believers who believe and follow Jesus are going to hell eternally simply for the idea of them getting some theological points wrong then you really gotta question what's more important, You having fellowship or a relationship with other believers or your theological knowledge.
I am in no way saying that theology is not important, it definitely is but Jesus told us that if we follow his commandments and believe that he died for us we will all have everlasting life together. We should not let it cause separation in the body of Christ because at the end of the day we all love the lord
@@Aioii9 you kinda did say that nothing matters besides loving Jesus. Nonetheless, the point still stands, what Jesus & what Lord ? What Jesus said those things ? The Jesus who is God or the Jesus who is just a man ? Majority of theology isn’t as important as we think but the core doctrine like Jesus being God is of utmost importance. How can you tell me you love Jesus or that you’re saved when you deny that the God of the universe is the God of the universe ? The only thing separating you from a non believer is that you just act a little better. & not you in specific, im tb Unitarians.
Marcus stay strong brother. Stand on what the Lord has revealed to you. This was hard to watch. The favour of the Lord is clearly on your life and we can see the fruit in you. You don’t need to keep explaining yourself to these guys.
Human family ‼️ Ephesians 4:5-6 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Repent‼️
Trinity is not in the Kjv Bible only believe what is written in the scriptures uou are not suppose to ad or take away from the Holy scriptures revelations 22 vs 18-19 Amen
I love you JP and the work you’re doing, but I think you may have jumped the gun on Marcus. There are unfortunately very important things Marcus will not directly answer on this topic to confirm he in fact is a trinitarian and he was okay with being called it if that’s how some perceive his views…not that his views are trinitarian. The issue is he still articulates an understanding that doesn’t explicitly acknowledge the personhood of the Father, Son, and Spirit. In Oneness teachings, they will acknowledge distinctions in the 3, but not to the extent to affirm personhood. Until he affirms the personhood of each member within the one being that is God, he still holds to a oneness framework. Once I hear him affirm the concept of personhood eternally of the Father, Son, and Spirit, then I would say he is trinitarian.
is the holy spirit seen standing or sitting in any vision? Personification doesnt necessarily necessiate personhood as that will make abel's blood a person, death a kingly ruler, wisdom a parent with children etc etc.
@@reason_together_3in1you are moving the goalposts on personification, why is having fellowship or grieving more proof of a person then calling out to god(abel's blood), or ruling(death) or having children(wisdom)
The doctrine of the trinity was made up by the catholic church in the 2nd century to please the pagans!!! The Bible teaches about the Apostles Doctrine of the Oneness of God and the Acts 2:38 Jesus Name Baptism
Your mistake is believing the “Roman Catholic Church” existed in the 2nd century. Your second mistake is thinking they invented it. If I show you Church Fathers before the 2nd century who believed in the Trinity would you repent of your lie?
Your mistake is believing the “Roman Catholic Church” existed in the 2nd century. Your second mistake is thinking they invented it. If I show you some Church Fathers before the 2nd century who believed in the Trinity would you repent?
Definitely a salvation issue. Its one thing if you dont completely understand buf to flat out reject it is a major issue. The nature of God is important,if you get God wrong you get the wrong gospel. Topics like these are vital to discuss because wrong beliefs can bleed over to closed handed doctrine. If we're gonna come against the word Trinity then hypostatic Union isn't biblical either according to this logic
Understanding how God functions has nothing to do with salvation. You guys are literally paralleling the Pharisees. Gatekeeping salvation with your own idea, while arrogantly attempting to wear Messiah’s shoes.
This is why it would be much easier if people used a little common sense like the 1st century converts would have. So many people claiming to be “Christian” (gnostics, etc?) just find out who has direct ties to Christ. The apostles. That’s where u gotta go. I went to the East. I think a lot of people have too. All this “American Christianity” and “Americanism” is all a 3 letter agency psyop. Literally lol. Glad I left Protestantism/evangelicalism.
Proximity to the apostles doesn’t guarantee orthodoxy. Early Christianity was very diverse and not a monolith as the East or Rome likes to think. Many students of the Apostles and beyond fell into falsehood rather quickly. As you said, even in the first century many heretical groups such as the Gnostics and Judaizers arose and this is a testament to how easy it is for word of mouth to be corrupted. I say this to say your reasonings for becoming EO are rather weak as it seems your gripe is with American Evangelicalism, not Protestantism as a whole.
@@awake3083 well I could just as easily critique any Protestant position, or even Roman Catholic. From a theological, philosophical, or metaphysical POV. I was just saying, if the early Christian’s knew to go to the people who were connected with Christ, then it’s obvious we can do the same “trying to find the church”. But even the classical reformation positions are just as bad, and the arguments against it are insurmountable.
@@The_OracleUnlocked Just like the early Christians, our prerogative is to search for a church which is filled with the Holy Spirit. Where the Word and Sacraments are purely administered and preached, life is there. In our modern day, we have the luxury (thanks to the Reformation) of buying a Bible and having it at home to personally read and study. We should be discerning God’s word before committing our conscience to a church that claims to be “THE” Church. But pray tell, how are the classical Reformation positions “just as bad” as everything else?
You can argue all day about baptism, the trinity, works based salvation, grace based salvation. The question is do you have a relationship with God and do you believe Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Don’t let the internet persuade you different- pray to God yourself and He will show you the correct way.
Obviously this is the important thing however these other things are important issues too, simply because they either have to do with who God is (the person you’re praying too) and what is commands are
Facts, like go spread the gospel instead of debating about the gospel. If you know much about the word, then go into the world and spread that word. So many people out there need Jesus!
Well you are wrong sir John 5 v 39 says search the scripture in them, you think you have eternal life and they are they which testify of me. So there will be Christians professing but don’t have eternal life, if you denying Jesus distinction from the father it is a heaven or hell issue that is where our salvation lyes
@@Rumblealsojennings2929Where does it say that in the Bible? What the Bible says is that salvation is in Jesus, that we can’t come to the Father except through Jesus. By believing He is the Son of God and that He came to die for us to be able to eternally be with the Father. What verse says that believing in the “distinction” of the Father and the Son is required for salvation?
The Cory guy I feel carrying a strong religious spirit I came with the same energy last time they went live on this subject .. Christianity is not about exalting know it alls . That type of personality actually goes directly against Gods character.cory don't talk like a Pharisee
I believe we will see the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father and Holy Spirit can take bodily form. The Son is still a man in a glorified resurrected body like we become at the resurrection. Luke 3:22 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.” 1 Timothy 2:5 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Daniel 7:13 The Son of Man 13 “I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days So the Son comes up to the Ancient of Days aka the Father and the Holy Spirit took bodily form as a dove. So all three can be seen and take bodily form. It's not a question it's in scripture.
Holy spirit isnt a person Its Gods power and he sent it out and baptized his son with it That's when jesus was annointed with holy spirit He never had it before his baptism So how could jesus be part of a trinity where he always had the holy spirit,? How come jesus didnt know he was the promise messiah untill his baptism and holy spirit revealed that to him ?
@@AstariahJW lol get real bud. Show me where Jesus didn't know he was Messiah. Show me where the Bible says the Holy Spirit is God's power? That doesn't make sense, how can the Holy Spirit be his power and separate from the Father at the same time? I can't send my spirit or power out. So it's impossible it's logically not possible because I don't see anything in nature to suggest that. Do I sound familiar?
@@Jesus_is_God77 It's not seperate its Gods power he sends it out like sun Rays it's still the sun Why was it that jesus started to talk about his prehuman existence after his baptism? Jehovah God revealed it to him when he annointed his son at his baptism Jesus isnt almighty God He is Gods son The messiah which means annointed one In an assembly of about 300 people where all annointed with holy spirit and they were able to speak different tongues Did a person holy spirit do that? No it was Gods power
@@AstariahJW give me a Bible verse that says the Holy Spirit is God's power. Give me a Bible verse that says the Holy Spirit gets sent out like rays like the sun. Do you realize everything you're saying is not found in scripture even though I clearly showed Bible verses that show 3 persons all God.
@@Jesus_is_God77 well I can say the same thing give me a verse that says God the holy spirit or a verse that says it's a person or that God is 3 persons or give me a verse that say holy spirit has a name Heres my evidence from the bible to support my claim The holy spirit is God’s power in action, his active force. (Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35) God sends out his spirit by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will.-Psalm 104:30; 139:7. Micah 3:8 As for me, I am filled with power by the spirit of Jehovah,And with justice and might,To tell to Jacob his revolt and to Israel his sin. Luke 1:35 In answer the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son. Psalms 104:30 If you send out your spirit, they are created,And you renew the surface of the ground Psalms 139:7 Where can I escape from your spirit,And where can I run away from your face? In the Bible, the word “spirit” is translated from the Hebrew word ruʹach and the Greek word pneuʹma. Most often, those words refer to God’s active force, or holy spirit. (Genesis 1:2) However, the Bible also uses those words in other senses: Breath.-Habakkuk 2:19; Revelation 13:15. Wind.-Genesis 8:1; John 3:8. The vital, or animating, force in living creatures.-Job 34:14, 15. A person’s disposition or attitude.-Numbers 14:24. Spirit persons, including God and the angels.-1 Kings 22:21; John 4:24. These meanings all share the sense of something invisible to humans that produces visible effects. Similarly, the spirit of God, “like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.”-An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine. The Bible also refers to God’s holy spirit as his “hands” or “fingers.” (Psalm 8:3; 19:1; Luke 11:20; compare Matthew 12:28.) Just as a craftsman uses his hands and fingers to do his work, God has used his spirit to produce such results as the following: The universe.-Psalm 33:6; Isaiah 66:1, 2. The Bible.-2 Peter 1:20, 21. The miracles performed by his ancient servants and their zealous preaching.-Luke 4:18; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 12:4-11. The fine qualities displayed by people who obey him.-Galatians 5:22, 23. The holy spirit is not a person By referring to God’s spirit as his “hands,” “fingers,” or “breath,” the Bible shows that the holy spirit is not a person. (Exodus 15:8, 10) A craftsman’s hands cannot function independent of his mind and body; likewise, God’s holy spirit operates only as he directs it. (Luke 11:13) The Bible also compares God’s spirit to water and associates it with such things as faith and knowledge. These comparisons all point to the impersonal nature of the holy spirit.-Isaiah 44:3; Acts 6:5; 2 Corinthians 6:6. The Bible gives the names of Jehovah God and of his Son, Jesus Christ; yet, nowhere does it name the holy spirit. (Isaiah 42:8; Luke 1:31) When the Christian martyr Stephen was given a miraculous heavenly vision, he saw only two persons, not three. The Bible says: “He, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand.” (Acts 7:55) The holy spirit was God’s power in action, enabling Stephen to see the vision.
Does Pastor Marcus actually believe God the Father, Jesus the Son of God and Holy Spirit the Spirit of the Lord are distinct persons who are the one being that is true God?
@ShmaAdonaiEhad Does Jesus say God is "A spirit" or "is Spirit? Jesus Christ, the Word of God was made flesh in His (The Son's) incarnation. Jesus Christ was manifest in flesh after his resurrection. Look it up so you get the facts straight.
@@reason_together_3in1 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24 KJV Jesus Christ is Almighty God in the Flesh AKA The Son of God. Jesus is not the second person a trinity. Jesus is the FIRST & LAST (Revelation 1:8),(Revelation 21:6-7). Immanuel God with us (Matthew 1:24),(ISaiah 7:14).
Heres what bible teaches Jehovah God is almighty Jesus is the son of the most high 2 distinct individuals in heaven The holy spirit is Gods power his active force Jesus was created by Jehovah God Only begotten son of God Only direct creation All other sons of God were created through the agency of jesus That's what makes jesus unique son of God Jehovah is the life giver Jesus recieves life from the father That's why jesus called God his father Cause hes the only son Jehovah fathered directly Trinity is an apostate teaching
Let's cut the charade. There is ONLY ONE SINGULAR GOD, who is a SPIRIT and Who Came down in FLESH/The son of God to die for our sins (1 Timothy 3:16),(Isaiah 35:3-5).There is ONLY ONE in heaven on the THRONE. Jesus Christ is HE. The Trinity doctrine is a LIE. "KNOW therefore THIS DAY, and consider it in thine heart, that THE LORD HE is GOD in Heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is NONE ELSE." - Deuteronomy 4:39 KJV "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD..." - Deuteronomy 6:4 KJV "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and ONE SAT on THE THRONE ." - Revelation 4:2 KJV "And HE that sat upon THE THRONE said, Behold, I make all things new. And HE said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And HE said unto me, It is done. I AM ALPHA and OMEGA, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and he shall be MY SON." - Revelation 21:5-7 KJV
The trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. The Bible speaks of the Father as God (Philippians 1:2), Jesus as God (Titus 2:13), and the Holy Spirit as God (Acts 5:3-4). Are these just three different ways of looking at God, or simply ways of referring to three different roles that God plays? The answer must be no, because the Bible also indicates that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons. For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), he cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son. In the baptism of Jesus, we see the Father speaking from heaven and the Spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove as Jesus comes out of the water (Mark 1:10-11). John 1:1 affirms that Jesus is God and, at the same time, that he was “with God,” thereby indicating that Jesus is a distinct Person from God the Father (see also John 1:18). And in John 16:13-15, we see that although there is a close unity between the three persons, the Holy Spirit is also distinct from the Father and the Son. The fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons means, in other words, that the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. Jesus is God, but he is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God, but he is not the Son or the Father. They are different Persons, not three different ways of looking at God. The personhood of each member of the Trinity means that each Person has a distinct center of consciousness. Thus, they relate to each other personally - the Father regards himself as “I” while he regards the Son and Holy Spirit as “you.” Likewise, the Son regards himself as “I,” but the Father and the Holy Spirit as “you.” Often it is objected, “If Jesus is God, then he must have prayed to himself while he was on earth.” But the answer to this objection lies in simply applying what we have already seen. While Jesus and the Father are both God, they are different Persons. Thus, Jesus prayed to God the Father without praying to himself. In fact, it is precisely the continuing dialogue between the Father and the Son (Matthew 3:17; 17:5; John 5:19; 11:41-42; 17:1ff) that furnishes the best evidence that they are distinct Persons with distinct centers of consciousness. Sometimes the Personhood of the Father and Son is appreciated, but the Personhood of the Holy Spirit is neglected. Sometimes the Spirit is treated more like a “force” than a Person. But the Holy Spirit is not an “it,” but a “he” (see John 14:26; 16:7-15; Acts 8:16). The fact that the Holy Spirit is a Person, not an impersonal force (like gravity), is also shown by the fact that he speaks (Hebrews 3:7), reasons (Acts 15:28), thinks and understands (1 Corinthians 2:10-11), wills (1 Corinthians 12:11), feels (Ephesians 4:30), and gives personal fellowship (2 Corinthians 13:14). These are all qualities of personhood. ( Now if you really believe that there's no trinity that's up to you but you can not say you believe in the Bible. You will give an answer to what you said rather you believe it or not
@@WesternGrit1968 The trinity is not Biblical. Look at the long explanation that you had to give to make scriptures say what they don't say. I know Jesus is Almighty God. He is the I AM and he is Also our Father/creator and he is the Holy Spirit in us. These are not three distinct persons. These are different titles that are attributed to ONE person: Jesus Christ.
Amen. I used to be oneness apostolic. I graduated from San Jose Apostolic in house College. I’m Trinitarian now. Good to see your in the truth now. Blessings
@@aChild-of-God1006David Bernard wrote in his book and I quote. “there was a time the Son did not exist” that is why!! And he said “ and he said “ there will be a time the role of the Son will cease to exist.” We are to honor the Son the same way we are to honor the Father. The oneness view of the Son is like all the other false doctrines out there. Low view of the Son :(
@@miketaylor7452I guess I don’t understand..if Jesus and God are the same in the oneness doctrine how could one or the other cease to exist. Isn’t that the definition of God/Jesus/ Holy Ghost being one?
The trinity is a lie came straight out of hell ‼️ but nonetheless, may God will be done. Too late will be the cry. Many of you are so blind even when the holy scriptures said believe, believe, believe what’s written 🤦♂️ repent and be baptize in the name of Jesus Christ and seek the Lord for the Holy Spirit before it’s too late ‼️ Jesus is giving you time and many of you are already doomed because he give you over to a reprobate mind. 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. The fear of the Lord is lacking on earth, but again, God will be done because he knew it was coming. When you speak of God, do you fear if you misrepresent him wrongfully? This is how serious this faith is Come out of all your churches and seek the church that Jesus Christ started. No man is a founder of a church. There’s no such thing as oneness, Christianity, Muslim, all those denominations ‼️ holiness without which no man sees the Lord‼️ there’s one God, one savior, one faith and his name is Jesus, our Lord and God. Come out of your carnal mindset and let his mind be in you. Be what God is before the foundation of the world‼️ HOLY‼️
I pray Allah will show these men the true path. They seem sincere and are trying. It’s unfortunate they are committing the unforgivable sin which is making partners with god aka Jesus is god. Anyways wish you’ll the best of luck.
It’s not a requirement to believe in the TRINITY at all. The truth and requirement that Jesus is the Son of God is a Bible fact not an invention of trinitarian concept. The idea that God is eternally 3 persons separate and distinct from one another is a trinitarian concept that was NEVER taught in scripture.
It actually is taught in scripture. We know the Father is God. Jesus said He and His Father are one, which makes Him God. Jesus said the Father will send the Holy Spirit and that “He” will be the comforter and teach us all things. God does not allow anyone else to be God on His behalf because He is the only God, so why would He send the Holy Spirit which the Bible calls a He when God is the only God. It is because the Holy Spirit is God The Father, the Son, and the Homy Spirit are Yahweh. The Bible does in fact teach this concept and it’s how God wanted to reveal Himself to us.
@@andrefranklin2311 nothing you said shows where scripture “teaches” God is 3 person. You just took scripture and gave your trinitarians explanation to it. But the Holy Spirit is literally the Spirit of God. And God only has one Spirit. The “Holy Spirit” is not a separate person from God. That’s nonsensical. God is a Spirit. There is one spirit. No scripture in all of the Bible teaches God is 3 separate distinct person (not even the explanations you wrote). You took what the Bible says about how God has revealed “himself” and said see there goes the trinity. That’s not how this work. Peter, James, John, Paul, Jesus, and every other Bible character never once identified as a trinitarian and absolutely did not tell us to.
@@andrefranklin2311it actually is not. Jesus and the father being “one” is one in unity and purpose. Not being. The holy spirit is in fact not a “he”. In greek the holy spirit is neuter (an “it) and in hebrew the holy spirit is feminine. You cannot determine whether the subject at hand is a person or not by the pronoun used. So pretty much your whole post is factually wrong.
