Ask any springbok player. The two biggest moments in their rugby career, 1. The day they get to wear the Bok jersey 2. The day they get to face the Haka ! I couldn’t imagine the AB’s without the Haka
As an Englishman, I disagree with Joe. But I do love the banter and how the NZ media have reacted, he isn’t even currently in squad. Don’t let him wind you up 🙈 he loves it.
@@CraigMinnie the way they talk its like the record is the other way around. I prefer the English Rugby League, Players/Public/Media in general to their Union Counterparts.
As a Kiwi, I'm a die hard fan of the haka. But I think teams should be able to do whatever they want when it occurs. If they want to stand and watch, fine. If they want to stay doing warm ups and drills, fine. If they want to get right up in the face of the All Blacks, fine. As long as they don't touch them, they should be allowed.
I like the haka as well but always thought it was a bit weird that they do it for away games. Makes perfect sense that as the home team the All Blacks get to throw down that challenge. Makes less sense when they travel to someone else's country though. I think has made it feel a lot less like a real challenge and slightly more like a commercial gimmick
I am Irish, it is part of what is special to play the All Blacks. It part of their heritage which they share with us on those occasions. Utmost respect for it and the enjoyment of taking on the All Blacks would lesser without it… That same other nations too…
There was a time quite a few years ago when I think it was Wales that tried to put some restrictions around the haka, so the ABs preformed it in their dressing sheds. The crowd was not happy when they realised that it would not be preformed on the field. There is quite a difference between facing down or witnessing a haka in person and seeing it on TV.
Its not that scary. Maybe I am jaded because I have seen it and performed it many times. Its a cultural exchange. People making a big deal out of it and crying. If anything it should be pumping up the Opposition to respond, if they do not do their own one. You never see the South Africans crying about it, Just the POMs. And you never see the Rugby League Fans Pom or not Crying about it. Just the Private School Pommy lot.
The Haka is great. If people worry it creates an unfair advantage, it's worth remembering that intimidating your opponents can take more than one form culturally. For example, can Kiwi fans sing worth a damn? No, no they cannot. The Haka might be scary for 90 seconds, but 50,000 Welsh fans thunderously singing at you for a half hour can really wear a team down. Or a dozen Scottish fans threatening to glass your Number 10 after the game. Or one Peter O'Mahony telling you "You're a s**t Richie McCaw, pal" on your own try-line. We should respect all these unique cultural challenges.
In "Chasing the Sun 2", There's a part where Rassie tells his players to look into the opposition's eyes and tell them they are going to f them up. Not meant to be disrespectful, but it was for intimidation. I'm all for the haka.
It is not scary or intimidating. Stood in front of dozens of them .Performed them dozens of times, practiced them hundreds of times. There is no advantage or disadvantage. If there is, its because you yourself are making it up in your head.
I'm British, but I have been living in NZ for 15 years, I loved seeing the Haka being performed when the ABs played in Europe as a kid and think the development through the years has brought an edge to its performance.
It's Joe's opinion he does not speak for England fans. But it's a debate that has been around for years since Tana Umanga said he felt no connection to the Haka many years ago.
As a South African and proud springbok supporter one of my favourite parts of a SA v NZ match is the haka and that faceoff would be an absolute shame to see that go away
As another South African fan I make the argument that it isn't even a face off anymore. Now you have to stand 50 meters apart and can't actually do the face off because of world rugbys bs rules I don't want the haka to go away but all the rules around not allowing encroachment and actual face to face stare downs need to leave immediatly
@@Forest9528 Keep it to 10-5 meters then. I love the face offs, I just don't want a game to start with 5 red cards, we already have more than enough of that.
Important to know that Ka Mate isn't a haka. It's a Ngere or collection of Te Rauparaha's thoughts he had while under the kuia Te Rangikoaea. The proper theme of Ka Mate concerns the high moral ground that is not my negotiable. Te Wharerangi (Hairy man) saves the life of his enemy Te Rauparaha only to be killed for doing it. It is fitting that Maori and Pakeha took this theme to the world over a Century ago. It is not to intimidate an opponent. It is remembering that we were once fierce enemies. Now we're many ethnicities but one Warrior. Kapa o pango is different. Ka Mate is carved into the Poutokomanwa on my Wharepuni at Otukou Marae situated on Okahukura (Central Plateau). Ko Matua Te Toa te Maunga (Tongariro). Ko Okahukura te Wharepuni. Ko Te Wharerangi te Tangata.
@@honahwikeepa2115 When the All Blacks began doing Te Rauparaha’s Ngere; they were all of British heritage. They did it as a way to mark where they were from, and to pay homage to “Native” XV’s that had toured the British Isles decades before during the late 19th century. If you watch footage of Haka’s from even the 1970’s and early 1980’s, it wasn’t this big ritual, it wasn’t done very aggressively, and it wasn’t even done before every test match! It wasn’t until Wayne Shelford became captain in the late 80s that suddenly it was taken seriously and was done with aggression.
So what. Its irrelevant to everyone but you and its Maori privilege and Maori supremacy. So we are supposed to be super respectful and allow you to impose your custom's on us when you have so little respect for us as demonstrated by that clown who insulted Irelands captain Johnny Sexton at his last game.
So the SkyHouse was the Tangata Huruhuru? Never Knew that detail. Thanks for sharing when I First heard it as a child I though it was Someone Nearly Dying, like a drowning or something but they lived and here along comes a hairy fella, I at first assumed it might be a Papa'a/Pakeha because they are often described as being HuruHuru in comparison lol. This is from someone who is very young and is learning a Similar language but its different at the time.
As an American watching rugby, the Haka, like things like the scrum give World Rugby it's charm. Whoever this dude is who hates the Haka, he should know that we all would rather watch the Haka than watch him.
I'm always happy to see American rugby fans and I hope the game grows there like crazy. The guy is Joe Marler, an English prop and he is known as being one of the biggest trolls in the game. There is a video of him twerking while his own kicker tried to convert a kick once, causing the guy to miss. So I'm going to guess ol' Joe just wanted to rule up some people
I actually kind of agree with him to some degree. I like the haka and I want it to continue however the fact that you can't challenge or go face-to-face with the haka is absolute bullshit. The opposition team should be allowed to respond however they feel fit to do so. Honestly, its gotten to the point that even though I like the haka to me its become just a silly waste of time dance. Best haka i ever remember seeing was the boks standing face to face with the abs doing the haka while surrounded by impi warriors. Cant do that anymore because its disrespectful. Fuck that
Teams are allowed to respond, Fiji, Tonga & Samoa all do, the only rule is neither team can advance beyond the 10 metre line. Your issue is not that you are not allowed to respond, your issue is that you do not have a response.
@JTAIT-b7g did you miss the whole face to face part I know critical thinking and reading comprehension in general is lacking in the online Kiwi community bit Jesus christ Also SA does have a response. Ya know the Impi warriors who run out before every single SA game in SA. Again the best haka ever done was when we had like 50 of them surrounding the boks while they were face to face with the ABs. Btw that whole thing was controversial because apparently we somehow disrespected NZ culture. We have responses we just never ever do them because when we do world rugby slaps us with fines and you go online and bitch about us disrespecting you Throw the 10m rule in the trash and allow teams to challenge the haka however they see fit. If that doesent happen then honestly fuck it let's just stop doing all the challenges full stop
@Jo3M Exactly, look at league, where there is no boundary. They've gotten in scraps when getting in each other's faces during a haka. We don't need any of that insecure manhood nonsense.
Yes I agree Brother, sing your hearts out, all challenges! The Haka is a challenge so give it back. The more the better, as long as it’s respectful then go hard. I feel commentators wrongly view any counter challenge as disrespectful which is totally wrong. All challenges should bring excitement not condemnation. Please England, sing Swing Low with all your might, raise both teams pride and savour the true essence of Haka!!!!
I'm a Saffa and I fuken love the Haka! Bring it on. It's a honor to face the Haka. Thank you New Zealand for sharing your culture with us. Most of us appreciate it. No one likes the English so don't worry about his comment. He is trying to say relevant.
Love the Haka…however. Away from home I am not convinced that the haka should be the last thing that happens before kick off. It should happen before the home side’s anthem. Or not at all. If the Kiwis are at home then of course. And the idea that a ref should intervene if an opposing player places a toe over that ten metre arbitrary line as happened in the 2019 semi final is ridiculous. It is that sort of intervention that causes resentment and suggests preferential treatment. Just my two cents 😉
Neither team is allowed to advance beyond the 10 metre line so no "preferential treatment" there. Other than that, teams may respond however they like, Fiji, Tonga & Samoa all perform their own challenges as a pretty obvious example. Your issue is not that you are not allowed to respond, your issue is that you do not have a response.
@@MrFubber why? Why is the anthem the last thing before a game starts? Haka was performed before the game well before anthems were introduced. It’s our tradition. Why is it such a problem every year for English people? Every year this is raised. It’s not a good look.
@@JTAIT-b7g it’s an arbitrary attachment to a sport which means nothing to other countries. I appreciate the theatre but the reason why ‘we’ don’t have a ‘response’ is that ‘we’ don’t buy-in to the entire premise.
Mark you’re bang on. English fella living in Nanjing here. The first thing local people ask me when I mention rugby is about the Haka. I was in the stands when Cockers and Hewitt went face to face in 97, it put a lot of spice in the game. Chabal’s stare, Farrell’s smirk at the centre of the V. All iconic moments. The second tweet is the one that I can get with.
The Wallabies should breakdance ...in all seriousness, I wonder if the host team can push the ABs further into the field, standing from the half-way line. As long as there's 10m in between teams its fine, right?
I have respect for the history of the haka in rugby. Still, the haka does seem like a slap in the face and the opposite team must just take it. They are not allowed to respond at all. Is that fair?
They can respond. And it's a privilege for a team to haka for the opposite team, it's something all 1st 15 rugby teams do in NZ high school rugby. Each school has their own haka, just something we have grown up with and we expect our national team to do the same: ie respect the opposition and haka. We are different in NZ but still nice people.
I'd encourage every team to have a response to the haka. The Haka is giving respect and at the same time challenging the opposition. Go for gold I say.
For all those who think no one is allowed to respond to the Haka is blind... Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands which now includes Indigenous Aboriginals. I've always enjoyed hearing Waltzing Matilda or Swing Low as a response however, I still strongly believe that the Haka be performed ONLY DR at home games on home soil unless the host nation requested it be performed. It's basically disrespectful, rude and arrogant to go to another country and demand they respect our cultural ceremonies, 😮
Other teams like Fiji, Samoa & Tonga respond to the Haka, the only rule is neither team can advance beyond the 10 metre line, your issue is not that you are not allowed to respond, your issue is that you do not have a response.
@JTAIT-b7g agreed, those rules are because, at the end of the day, it's still just a game, a "friendly" healthy competition utilizing male testosterone and masculinity in a safe controlled environment. Because, we (males) know there is a line in the sand and if either side crosses it, there are usually consequence like confrontation.
I shouldn’t and obviously never will be ‘binned’. But it does raise an interesting point in that it is probably overused. It’s up to NZ but it would have even more impact if it was rationed a bit more.
@@april-tui3524Every team has an anthem. Some more than one. A lot of people do glaze over when they are played other than for their own. The haka was always something different but you see it a lot now. I guess with more games on TV etc. whereas once you would have only seen it once in a blue moon. I don’t know it just made it seem more unique.
@ well I’ve always seen it a lot because it was always around me growing up. Such a big thing for everyone else it seems. I don’t really care about ‘impact’, it’s our cultural tradition 🤷🏽♀️
As a proud Kiwi I always said that people's opinions on the HAKA is their own..... You're not going to get everyone on the same Ship, and at the end of the day its the Game of RUGBY that people came to watch. ❤☝💯🇳🇿💯☝❤
Scotland can do a sword dance, Argentina the tango, Italy would sit in a traffic jam of Fiat 500's with their foot on the horn, and France would have a riot.
I am from Ireland, love the Haka. How it is presented and received. The best Hakas ever was the Munster Haka, followed by the AB Haka - absolutely brilliant.
I must concede Joe Marler is one person who's qualified to talk about binning in rugby - he's one of the most sin-binned player in the English Premiership history (12 if I recall correctly).
As an Irish fan, I cannot imagine how people can get upset about the All Blacks performing the Haka. The end of the Haka means the end of one of the world's most iconic team performances that hugely enhances each occasion! We look forward to giving the All Blacks a warm welcome in Dublin and seeing and meeting the challenge with a great game of rugby and an Irish win.
Joe Marler needs a PK. Not just because of that comment, but in general. Your South African viewers will understand. The haka is one of the greatest things across sport. It not only shows respect for those that have gone before, but huge respect for the opposition by challenging them as equals.
The Haka is a staple of world rugby and a deeply moving experience. I’ve faced it while touring in NZ and will never forget it… I hope it stays forever. 🕺
Mark. The 10m thing you speak of .... thats the whole crux of the matter. I personally love the Haka but teams should be allowed to advance (either team). Right up to each other ..... just no physical contact. Thats what is needed & I believe Wanted.
I like the Haka, it's iconic. HOWEVER! One point made recently which I thought was strong was that when NZ (or whoever) are playing away from home, it should be done before the home team's national anthem. It definitely gives NZ (or whoever) an opportunity to psyche themselves up. If you disagree, you won't mind it being before the home anthem then.
Yeah it's World Rugby's guide that says the order is Anthem A, Anthem B, Cultural Challenges - be interesting to see teams choose to sing a culturally important (but not anthem song) in reply
I don't understand why people are even talking about this. Marler got dropped from the 23 and is being phased out of the England squad. He'll probably never play NZ again, so he is saying this with impunity and because no one will be talking about Joe Marler this weekend.
Irishman living in NZ. The Haka is not only a wonderful spectacle of world rugby, it’s one of the few instances of indigenous culture represented on the world stage, anywhere. Māori are, like any group, not a monoculture, but I think most Māori are proud to see the Haka loved worldwide (again, whitest dude on the planet, so I can only go by the Māori I’ve talked to). I remember my first Ireland All Blacks match as a kid and seeing this amazing display… it’s one of the reasons I still love rugby to this day and why the ABs are my second favourite team 😁 Should it be challenged? Short answer: yes, long answer: yeah, but don’t be a dick about it. Let the crowd sing, let the opposition advance, maybe don’t fly a plane overhead. I dunno, one man’s challenge is another man’s “being an arse” Oh, and best Haka challenge ever? (Predictably), Ireland forming a number 8 in tribute to the great Anthony “Axel” Foley on the day of our first ever victory over the All Blacks in 2016. What a game.
No team should be forced to stand at a nominated distance and watch the Haka. It adds great drama and atmosphere to a game when the Hakka is challenged or confronted in a respectful manner. It’s disappointing when a team approaches or challenges the Hakka and the referee/match officials start intervening and threatening the players of the opposing team to back off.
As South African love the Haka..grew up appreciating it and that's why I get upset when the crowd makes a noise when it's performed...the Haka possibly one of the reasons I fell in love with rugby as a child even though I'm from SA
As a South African, I like the Haka. South Africans are sometimes accused of not taking it seriously, but then we do not take things that seriously in general. However, as far as I know most Saffas enjoy the Haka as a spectacle before the match. It adds to the buildup.
One of my favourite Haka responses was Wales, I think it was 2008ish when Wales just stood still and neither team would budge.. I like the Haka I think it adds a bit of drama
Thanks again for your great explanation of the rules around the Haka. I remember rolling out of bed at a ghastly hour as a youngster to watch the Springboks face the Haka for the first time many moons ago. Unfortunately I was dragged into the negative camp when teams started getting penalised for reacting to it. Just standing there and 'taking it' or be fined left a bitter taste. I feel Rugby's management and the press could do a lot better in educating fans about rule changes and reasons behind it overall, as I am sure I am not the only Rugby supporter who moved back to the positive camp on the Haka after your explanation. Everyone I heard complaining about it was because of teams being fined when responding.
As a Spaniard living in the exact opposite side of the world, let me tell you that hearing your "cojones" reference has put a smile on my face. Second, and almost as important, a 20.000 Km gap between us didn't diminish the love we feel for your haka and its meaning a single bit. Let's pay no mind to this Joe... Joe.. Who? Sorry, i just forgot.
Even as a Bok fan, I love the Haka. I've only watched 2 live Boks vs ABs games in my life and both times I was disappointed that I couldn't hear the haka with the crowds drowning it out.
The haka is as big of a part of world rugby history as it is a part of NZ rugby hisyory and will remain so in future. As a south african the haka gives me chills every time i watch it and watching the all blacks without doing the haka will not be the same for me.
In the "good old days" the Haka was shown without commentators talking through it or the camera panning all over the place. So media disrespects it and has removed its luster.
I liked it when it was fairly brief and there wasn't so many matches. They kept having to up the ante with weird and lengthy variations. Get it back to the basic haka and I'm fine with it. I also don't think it should need to be respected.
Haka is special. It should not be shown to every team. Only to teams who deserve to see it. Who earned it. Doing it everytime waters down how special it is. Can you imagine how amazing it would be if your team earned the right to face the HAka when they only did it once or twice a year!?! Goose bumps!!
The haka is a traditional and historical showing , that not only pays homage to the guys who've come before in the black jersey but also to the players families and the NZ people, the fact that Marler sees it as a theatrical spectacle shows the whole world why England haven't won anything significant since 2002 , absolutely no respect
I have been having a discussion with a couple of poms on the Roar about this. I have never met a fellow kiwi that really gives a crap about whether or not the poms sing over the haka or whether or not players turn their backs, yawn or whatever. What do my fellow kiwis on here think? And can anyone recall the NZRFU complaining or making demands about the haka?
@@Moamanly I was never a fan of the Haka and wouldn’t be sad if they did away with it. And for that reason I couldn’t give a stuff how opposing teams react. I always get a drink when the anthems start and don’t pay attention again until the kick off.
@@danieleyre8913 I'm personally not a fan of anthems either although I have a soft spot for Scotland's and RSA's and love it when the Welsh and even the English sing. NZ's own anthem badly needs upgrading or changing imo, not a fan of god references.
Just a few months ago SARU and the Springboks had to apologise for the crowd’s behaviour and plane fly-over during the Haka at Ellis Park!! I used to be a fan but for some reason it has become a joke lately. I think it started with TJ Perenara’s ridiculous tongue showing and throat slitting ritual! I dont care for the Haka anymore!!!
@ Yeah our anthem sucks. Beyond the outdated religious overtones (most of NZ is either irreligious or not actively religious); it’s a boring dirge with pretentious lyrics. Listening to some of the great anthems of the world; they’re uplifting and inspirational, something you could march out to battle to. God defend NZ sounds like something to be played at a funeral or memorial service.
I completely agree that the Haka and other cultural challenges are an incredible sight and an important part of rugby. But let's not forget, these challenges are exactly that-a challenge to the opposing team. World Rugby has gone soft by restricting how teams can respond. Some of the best moments have come from both teams advancing and facing off, creating those intense, spine-tingling face-offs. We need to bring back the face-off-it adds to the emotion and drama that makes rugby special!
Well summed up. I'd love to see more cultural challenges from other countries. There is an opportunity to share culture in a respectful and hyped up way. How does your country bring the 🔥🔥🔥🔥
I do believe that World Rugby should ditch the rules regarding where the teams stand during the Haka. I still remember Sebastien Chabal’s stare down with the all blacks a few years back, the french team being less than one meter away from their opposition… what a way to face the challenge! Nowadays teams rival to produce « formations » to face the Haka. None of them compare to the up close and personal stare down.
I absolutely love the Haka!! It's part of the history and it's woven into the tradition of the game. I think we should extend it into a show involving both sides. Our Irish lads could do a quick segment from River Dance, the French could bring some wine and cheese for a tasting ceremony, Italy could sing "Just one Cornetto, give it to me." , Scotland could do some Tossing the Caber, Wales can do a Dawns Gymreig, and England could get drunk and smash some windows.😂 That last bit was a joke. England rugby fans are perfect gentlemen and gentleladies 😊
As a South African I have no problem with the Haka. We have always had a huge rivalry with the ABs and the Haka has always been part of it. If fans of the opposing team react to the Haka no problem. Usually no disrespect is intended, just a reaction to a challenge. This is a storm in a teacup. I bet Joe made the comment tongue in cheek anyway.
i think if anyone ever see how tongans responded to the nz haka.. will see it puts the game up a notch.. i mean dang i remember the english and welsh would belt out there own traditional songs.. kinda hyped the game up
With the greatest respect to him, he does not understand NZ rugby tradition. Maybe it is time for him to retire as he is not appreciating the challenge of the haka. Go NZ we love it.
Yeah well summed up Mark. Joe is a stirrer, all good, like you say this thing comes up all the time, big deal, in the main people love it. First world problem and a bit of a laugh but as a Kiwi I love the haka, it's an important part of our heritage, I just wish more people knew that it goes way beyond rugby.
@@oliverallan81 A lot of people who comment on those newspaper articles are lonely and alienated people with nothing to do and not enough social interaction.
Used to enjoy the spectacle as a kid, and I do appreciate that it's something unique to our sport. But I also feel that it's privelege offered to certain nations that's taken with a bit of entitlement. Imagine any other walk of life where someone can stand there making threatening gestures, running their thumb across their throat, grunting and screaming and you have to stand silently in your place and 'respect' it... Bloody nonsense. Now, let them get nose to nose, get the blood pumped, the crowd amped and I'm all over it. This whole stand back and take it like a punk attitude has sanitised the whole thing.
As a Springbok fan I think Marler needs to just keep quiet from now on. Springboks will always meet the Haka up front and to have seen it live is really something!
Rugby & tradition is what makes our game great & different. The Haka is central to that. People taking offence to how its met is kind of ludicrous but its a big part of the history of our game.
@@rogerpattube Or do what I do and go and get a drink. If I’m at the pub I time it to get another beer, if it’s at a mate’s place or my own place I put a pot of tea on when the anthems start, the timing is always right to return when the game kicks off. The ritual of anthems and the haka got boring for me over 20 years ago….
Yeah it's kinda like Christmas - when you're a kid it's all new and exciting, but by the time you're a teenager you don't even wanna put up the tree anymore 😅
@@TwoCentsRugby Maybe all of these Irish people, South Africans, who love the haka simply don’t have to go through the ritual before every bloody game…
He is an entertaining guy BUT his obvious dislike for the All Blacks gets the better of him. He does stuff to appeal to English fans but he has the ability to be an international rugby favorite if he didn't say such silly things.
Lived in NZ for 20 years and I agree you should not have just stand there and do nothing! it's a challenge, would you just stand there in a bar and do nothing if someone was calling you out? thought not and most Kiwis I know agree and after the Eng v Sam league Haka a few days ago the league boys showed us how it should be done IMO!
To make the conversation a little interesting, is there an argument to be made that having the Haka at the start of every game has made it feel a little less special & there's something in 'less is more' by being more selective in when to deploy it that creates a ton of anticipation?!
@@AllInTheGame01 I’m more annoyed that the fact some countries don’t sing or even challenge it, like come on the all blacks are laying down the gauntlet accept it and face them head on with your own challenge which is why I loved when England mistakenly did the v for victory in the 2019 semi final it showed some backbone for once
I agree. Time to bring it out only for special occasions. Don't do it in England since that is where the whinging always seems to come from. Maybe consult with opposition unions to see whether they have a preference.
I get the argument and where it comes from and yes, it would make the Haka a bit more special to employ it once every other game. But which games do you not do it? Would NZ do it when they played Romania, for instance?
I think any maori can interpret their haka in a million different ways of what it means and whats it for. Im pakeha and who cares? Is it unfair? maybe so but far out it is awesome. It brings its on atmosphere and anticipation to every rugby game. I do feel sorry for the opposing teams but they have also respected for a very long time and that deserves its own acknowledgment. Rising over the haka takes mana and gives the win more credit. Thats why there is such pride in betting the ABs, just look at the Springbok game this year. Fantastic! So much passion
Meh. Don't particularly care either way, I just skip it along with the anthems. I'd be more interested in what Maori think about the "spectaclisation" of it all. Seems like it's turned into more of a thing to get more people watching rather than a challenge, not necessarily a bad thing, but if it starts getting to the point where opposing teams can't respond because it might ruin a photo op or get in the way of the TV crews then we have a problem.
I'm Maori and love a good haka and also love the All Blacks but the All Blacks haka is becoming a bit cringe in my view as it has become so over Choreographed. I only wish our backline could be as polished as the haka.
