Respect to Ken as always. I feel like whether or not someone actually watches the video, you gotta give love to Ken 🤣. He’s one of the reasons why we’re all here today and that’s not a joke.
Interesting that the Marth roundtable upped the number of players by quite a bit compared to the Falcon roundtable. I can't wait for the inevitable Fox roundtable when they bring on 50 guests.
Zain needs to give himself more credit.. Sure, the pivot tipper punishes are old school, but all the soft bair, fair and uair links are all him. The UpB edgeguard bullshit, and all the edge cancel shenanigans? Like c'mon dude.. No one ever did any of that. You've brought the character firmly to #1 in several people's minds.
I’m one of them tbh. Idk when top players will come around to echoing the sentiment but marth is the best character in the game. When Zain is playing clean no one can even touch him. No matter who beats him it always feels like an upset, marth always feels like he should have won. Only exception is Axe but that matchup has a lot of development left to find and Zain is already looking for it.
in fairness i would never act anywhere near appreciative of my own skill around this line up, even if i was #1. just the nature of it all makes you humble
I agree, he's such a humble dude. It felt like Marth was falling off as a character until he came around and incorporated a lot of the tech the former Marths had not.
@@justsomeguy7042 My point is exactly that he didn't to just take their ideas. Show me one marth before Zain who's comboing Captain Falcon to 150 plus with soft up airs on final destination. And that's just one thing he invented.
The Melee community definitely felt a lot more like the traditional fgc scene back in that day. Not that I don't love what it's turned into today but it was definitely cool back then
I think the Roundtable is the best thing to come out of GG Melee so far. With the current format, it's a valuable perspective into Melee's history throughout the years, while also having a perspective of where Melee is right now.
Lol they did M2K dirty with the tournament performances they listed, where's Summit 6? Other that than, GG Melee are legends for assembling this awesome Marth roundtable. Almost an hour of these players talking is a gift to the community.
Just a quick note: When you play the gameplay clips, the audio from the clip is a bit distracting from what the guests are saying. Maybe just mute the gameplay clips going forward.
I've always thought Ken's Marth would look a lot like Zain's contemporary Marth if he had never stopped playing. Charming to see the 2 red swordsmen pay respect to each other. Old and New school kings
I once saw someone comment on Ken playing on unranked and how even with not playing much he seemed much more innovative in his play. If Ken's hands stopped bothering him and he could practice again and develop his Marth more he'd probably resemble Zain. Ken came back towards the end of 2013 and by 2015 he was already shield dropping and power shielding lasers easily. He definitely has the capacity to learn new tech and apply it intelligently. A random thing was in one of Ken's last tournaments before he retired the first time, Super Champ Combo, someone commented he started resembling M2K's Marth because he was wavedashing a lot more and seemed more juggle heavy. I think if Ken was able to train with Zain he'd probably be more like that. I would love a world where Zain and Ken are pushing Marth together. To be honest it makes me feel sad they aren't.
M2k & Zain’s tourney results were odd choices. No summit for M2k, no genesis or shine for Zain. Loved the video, just a tidbit. Great that you got Ken in
Ken and M2k are litteraly my two favorite players and the reason i picked up marth around 2007. Was very happy to come home from work and see this video on my feed.
Honestly Armada and Hungrybix are my two favourites. Hungry box for his insanity and Armada for his peach. Just switched to peach (Daisy outfit melee) from Link (white tunic). My main obstacles are ganondorf and Roy played by my brother. Ganondorf with the up grab and Roy with just canceling my float game. Any suggestions specifically for Roy/Marth?
We should definitely give more respect to Ken. He was one of the building blocks of the entire community and the first God of the game. Melee players love to shit on past pros. They would probably shit on you in half the inputs.
It’s crazy how in a short amount of time he figured out how to dominate and stay on top inventing Marth pretty much on his own. Definitely deserves respect. Ken hardly plays, but when he does play unranked he actually does really well, especially after the first game. I think it’s his experience but also he seems to have a game sense, like he can feel what is going on. What he does is pretty ambiguous and I think more modern players have trouble with it. Also Ken seems pretty much immune to being tilted on unranked so I feel like even someone better than Ken on paper are more prone to be frustrated with how he plays and start falling apart.
Zain's are a little weird too, lol. Dunno why Genesis 7 isn't on there, but has two summit performances. But M2K shouldn't definitely have Summit 6 and TBH3 lol.
Great video and I love to hear from Ken and Mew2King about oldschool Melee. But I have to make a correction. M2K got 3rd at WTFox 2016 (aka WTFox 2). Also bizarre to list FPS 2015 and Endgame 2016 as his highlighted tournaments when Summit 6, Shine 2016, and Super Champ combo are probably his most impressive tournaments (if we are just talking Melee). Maybe even UGC Smash Open, despite getting 2nd to Armada.
Funny that Hbox started camping again right after they recorded this roundtable lol. And Rishi is right about the longstanding rule against "stalling" not being well defined. The definition of stalling has not been well defined, with obvious exceptions like freeze glitch and wobbling. But even Puff’s pound stalling is not well defined. And I have never once seen a TO step in to punish a player for “stalling” in a tournament (once again with the exception of freeze glitch and wobbling past 300% because those are clear cut, although I have actually seen ICs wobble past 300 and not get punished by TOs, but this is moot with wobbling banned). So the no stalling general rule has been pointless for years because TOs never act on it, even in egregious cases of Hbox and Michael4100000 ledge camping and air camping/pound stalling (mainly Puff vs Peach and ICs, but we've also seen Hbox ledge camp a gratuitous amount against Fox). The rule against stalling def has to be more well defined, whether it's a rule against pound stalling a certain amount, a harsher ledge grab limit vs Puff, and/or an air time limit to make Puff less incentivized to air stall (mainly a problem for Peach vs. Puff, but a Puff can choose to air stall to great effect vs many characters).
i thought there was no way this series could get more sick than the falcon roundtable, glad to be proven wrong! this is so absurdly cool edit: i asked m2k if he played one or two games with ken and he insists it was just one, seems like we'll never know for sure...
9:42 I actually agree with Ken here. Zain feels like a 2022 Ken. All of M2K's kills are either optimized gimps or throw flowcharts. PPMD is its own thing, with more movement than any other. I feel like PewPewU should be up here. Wasn't he the first Marth to implement pivot f-smash on Puff?
m2k also out of nowhere will go for a lolm2k side B meteor kill offstage down in the magnifying glass on his last stock in tournament so def not all optimized flowcharts
@@PalPlays What I'm saying is that not all of his kills are what you described. M2k also has insane neutral reads with fsmash to kill and he does plenty of other stuff.
I really like this video. Insane line up, good production. I also like the structure, everyone seems to have time to say something and its fair. It feels natural.
Mew2king and Ken keeping it real with how wack things have become on social media. How new smashers are all a hive mind who follows whoever is popular and how they aren't articulate, don't hear people out. Honestly the younger generation is such a cancerous force. Glad they said it.
This was one of the closest opportunities to a Ken/Azen reunion, but I'm sure Azen is difficult to book. Regardless, this line up is stellar. Wish you could've also gotten Azen, PewPewU, and KodoriN to round out every era of #1 and #2 Marth, but I digress.
Was PPU ever the #1 marth? It feels like this was a roundtable of "every #1 Marth... plus Rishi", and #2s aren't really factored in. I feel like PPU never actually surpassed M2K except when M2K unofficially retired by which point Zain was already ahead.
Video idea: Show top players playing characters with greyed out color and no player cam, and have the golden guardians guess their corresponding characters with who the player is. Like None guesses captain falcon, zain marth, etc..
Wow, well since I main Marth i thoroughly enjoyed this. omg they should have a fox and falco one as well. like PC Chris, Westballz, Mango, and PPMD again (Bombsoldier if he could speak english)
