Marvel's Muddled Hulk 

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What's really disappointing to me is that Avengers showed that Mark Ruffalo can make Bruce legitimately menacing. That initial scene with Black Widow has him being threatening and a little manipulative to knock Nat off balance. It would have been cool to see a more beaten down Bruce using those kind of underhanded means to try to prevent a situation where he has to let the Hulk out. I think it would be a really good way to build tension while exploring Bruce's character outside of the Hulk.

Hulk ripping out abomination's elbow bone and stabbing him with it is one of the best things I've ever seen in the MCU.

Jesus I forgot how scary Hulk was in 2008. Definitely my favorite version

I rewatched Avengers 2012 recently and man, Hulk was one of the biggest highlight of the movie. I legitimately forgot how excited I was to see what was next with this version of the Hulk.

It makes me sad what the MCU has done to the hulk. Hulk is such an interesting character, hulk has been relegated to the background compared to the other characters which is a shame. I feel like hulk should have had a trilogy where banner and hulk learn to work together instead of against one another and become the hero we know he can be. Even though I know they couldn't because of the rights with universal thing.

It's recently been pointed out to me how well Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes utilized their Hulk. In that particular show, they really emphasize that Banner and Hulk are 2 halves of the same coin. Banner has come to terms with the fact that he is stuck having to share his life with Hulk; there is no magic button he can push to get rid of him. And on the other hand, Hulk is also cursed with sharing the body with Banner. As such, the two end up bargaining with each other for who gets control at certain times. There's even a great episode where Hulk acknowledges that the problem is intellectual in nature and therefore cannot be solved by Hulk. So, he's stuck giving control to Banner.

What really bothers me about Infinity War is Hulk would never get scared from an opponent stronger than him, it would just make him more mad and stronger too 😂 I guess it works to set up Thanos as a big bad but Hulk didn't even get a redemption scene against Thanos in Endgame which would've been satisfying

The one thing I never enjoyed is how weak the Hulk generally looked. Hulk is supposed to be a force of nature, the jade giant who can stand up to Gods. There are only a few moments that show that "Hulk is strongest". Especially vs Thanos, they really did him dirty there..

Hulk went from being the strongest one there is, to being a big idiot in Ragnarok, to then being a pathetic mashup of him and Bruce Banner. Only except we don’t get the actual, insanely strong and intense gamma powered hero, that just so happens to have the great mind of Banner. No we just get a green Mark Ruffalo walking around, being all goofy and cannot be taken seriously anymore.

In the comics hulk always wanted to fight something even if he couldn’t actually win. He always fought out of his league so with thanos I feel like hulk would have wanted to train more and more to get even stronger.

I didn’t mind Hulk losing to Thanos but no rematch is where I feel betrayed

Something I really appreciate about this video is that you aren't just saying "Hulk isn't the big scary punch monster anymore" like most of the internet. You actually talk about how they threw away any semblance of a character arc for him and stripped him of what makes him interesting

I actually watched Incredible Hulk again today for the first time in years and frankly he used to be much scarier than whatever he is now. At this point the only way we will get a Hulk of that caliber is if we get Thunderbolt Hulk or "Red" Hulk.

The incredible Hulk is exactly how he should have been all throughout the MCU...

The 'live and let live' scene being cut from Infinity War is one of the biggest missed opportunities of the MCU, and I think arguably THE biggest one for the Hulk. It would have been so beneficial because it essentially takes the scraps of character development Hulk got in Age of Ultron, Ragnarok, and Infinity War, and cooks them into a viable recipe. I'm still hoping Bruce is a secondary protagonist in She-Hulk and they flesh out his stuff a bit more, and in a perfect world he would be, but I'm highly skeptical.

I'm actually gonna support Banner in Age of Ultron (for the most part). "I can choke the life out of you without changing a shade", he still felt like a full character with issues and not a punchline in that one, I think Banner was pretty well written. The romance subplot I'll agree isn't inherently bad but wasn't executed as well as it could've been. And I'll also agree, further down the line in the MCU Hulk's character was.. idk just not as fully realized as he was in Avengers (2012)

Here’s one interesting idea they could’ve used in endgame. Using the stones to snap was said to mostly give of gamma radiation correct? Hence why hulk could resist it. Why not have hulk absorb so much gamma rays that he reverts back to a savage hulk. Jumping out of the avengers complex right before thanos attacks, and only coming back during the big fight later.

The transformation scene in Avengers is still one of my all time favorites. The sheer rage is frightening to behold, especially from fragile black widow's perspective. Like holy shit that scene still terrifies me. And it's a blast to see him go punch for punch with Thor which of course ends in a stalemate. He remains THE Hulk for the rest of that movie but from there on out...what should be the most powerful being around continuously gets beat down from movie to movie. First by hulk Buster, then Thor, then Thanos and then he's gone forever. Quite unceremonious if you ask me.

Imagine if Thor, after he arrived in Wakanda and kicked all sorts of ass, had had a moment with Bruce and been able to reach the Hulk. Thor could’ve been like their mediator, helping Bruce convince Hulk to come out just this once and starting them on the path to a more balanced relationship.

"Soooo universal wont give up the rights?? Okay guys time to nerf hulk" - feige

The ease with which Banner & Hulk's relationship was resolved bugged me a lot in Endgame. The Russos mention in the commentary track for Endgame that they originally wanted to show the two personalities coming to terms with each other but it would have taken up too much screen time. But if that was the cases then they shouldn't have made such a big issue of the problem during IW. I also think that by having "Professor Hulk" it slightly devalues She-Hulk. It takes away a little bit of her uniqueness (a hulk who retains intelligence) and makes her simply a female counterpart of "smart hulk".

You are absolutely correct about "Professor hulk" just being a super powered Banner. In that movie there is nothing left of hulk except the body.

I always interpreted Black Widow’s arc in Age of Ultron as her feeling like a monster because she allowed herself to be turned into a weapon by the Red Room. Her inability to have children is just a part of, if not a symbol of that. I don’t know how Whedon intended it because, as we all know, he is a monster but I choose to interpret it that way.

I thought it was such a weird talking point when Moon Knight came out that 'here's an MCU character with DID' because we've had Hulk for years. But it's not so weird really when you consider that if you're not a comic book fan you don't really understand that Bruce HAS DID. The lack of development and build up that these are distinct personalities, as opposed to Hulk just being a 'monster' and heightened rage, that Bruce had a traumatic and abusive childhood and even repressed memories, or that Bruce has many other personalities inside him (that can also access the gamma radiation) all lead to MCU Bruce/Hulk having none of the driving elements that make me adore solo Hulk comics. I did hope that Sakaar would lead to a Caiera Oldstrong and Skaar storyline (and maybe it will in the future, Marvel seems intent on 'Next Gen' characters like Wanda's kids Billy and Tommy, and Cassie Lang, etc) but we haven't gotten anything like that. Having Bruce have to confront his inner demons about his past, and his dad, as well as years spent as Hulk without control, all in order to be a dad to a kid who also has trauma and DID would be such an interesting way to move him forward. Especially if the project was 'focused' on Skaar to get around Universal's problem, but still had to thoroughly build up Bruce's character to drive the story. Instead we got... Infinity War, Endgame and now She-Hulk. Living the dream out here.

My feelings about MCU hulk are so paradoxical. When they reintroduced him in the first Avengers movie, he had elements of both the Ultimates Hulk, and the old TV show - he strangely felt more like the Bill Bixby Banner. I wanted to see this explored: the loneliness and exile of the TV banner, combined with the self awareness and even strange glee the Hulk has in just being the Hulk. This kernel could have followed these aspects over a number of movies, slowly integrating into a single personality that has elements of both: someone who's simultaneously intelligent, kind, and empathetic, but still cranky and hairtrigger (and just a little too fond of a good fight). This Hulk could be a genuinely good person that you still feel a little uncomfortable around because he's got enough of a temper to put a toaster into orbit because it burned his waffles - someone who doesn't feel like he's in exile but instead feels like a travelling adventurer looking for people who need help and anyone who has a problem with him can get smashed. On the other hand , I actually kinda love Professor Hulk - having watched the TV show growing up and having followed his adventures since the late seventies, there is a side of me that feels like the lonely man wandering from place to place always under pursuit DESERVES that kind of end: to be a Hulk that everyone actually likes and could probably sit and read stupid articles written by the journalist that used to chase him just or the LOL's while kicking back in a nice little cabin in Jamaica. Smiling Hulk delivering Taco's is just someone I'd love to hang out with. The problem is, this evolution isn't earned - it's just feels like film-makers trying to throw something unexpected at the audience without actually thinking it through. It's enough of a shift I'm not even sure I'd buy a single Hulk movie explaining the shift from Infinity War to Endgame. There is, however, a way to move this version character forward - I think we can all agree that this Hulk is ultimately TOO chill - he uses his strength half-heartedly - as if he barely takes that aspect of himself seriously. If I were Marvel, I'd do an arc showing that the Hulk is far weaker without his rage, and that in "fixing" himself, Banner has lost something crucial. If he has to face something like, say, the Maestro - where he really would have to be able to tap into both his full level of intelligence AND his full savage strength to even have a chance against them, he'd have to make a pretty fundamental change. I think one of the more obvious tacks is to consider what isolation might have done to both personalities - leaving earth in Ragnarock, losing contact with either Betty or Black Widow, Hulk kinda decided he didn't need anyone. Anger management is much easier when you've given up on caring - this current version may be more a surrender than actual integration. Have him build a happy life for himself that is destroyed, and then have to deal with the fact that that rage might give him the strength to defeat the Maestro, but it is also what puts him at risk of becoming him. Then have him find out it wasn't the Maestro that wrecked his life, it was the Illuminati because they NEEDED a raging hulk in order to win. Boom, World War Hulk....

One of the biggest missed opportunities and what makes the Hulk character so frightening is his transformation....whedon did it perfectly in Avengers and then its never been seen again. The uncontrollable rage of him not wanting to change but the Hilk just taking over and asserting dominance, and the resulting reaction of whoever is present at the time.

bruce’s first scene with black widow is one of my favourite scenes in the whole series, it’s a shame they couldn’t keep that characterisation

I feel like the “balance” of Hulk and Banner was out of place and way too soon. For almost all movies before hand we grow to love both personalities within this character and see the conflict with themselves but after Infinity War it feels like they just rushed their conclusion. Hulk lost to Thanos and refused to come out and banner having to learn to get by with only his own humanity and what happens next? Hulks personality gets killed off screen and all that’s left is husk of what he used to be with Banner just being comic relief.

Seeing Joe Fixit in the MCU would be quite the sight to see! I honestly want them to delve into Bruce's past, show his father, confirm to the comic fans that the MCU's Savage Hulk is still just an angry kid and they'll explore Bruce's D.I.D. Similar to what they did in Moon Knight, but make it more mature and closer to the Immortal Hulk comics.

Hulk used to be my absolute favourite marvel character period - what the MCU has done to him is just...so disappointing

Hulk vs Abom is to this day, one of the few movie fights that gets my blood pumping. Visceral is the best word to describe it.

Hulk in the MCU so far has had one of the most anticlimactic endings to a character arc in all of fiction.

2008's The Incredible Hulk is absolutely the underappreciated gem of the MCU. I love it, and it has my prefered look for Hulk, too. I do like what I refer to as the Gorilla style Hulk from Avengers onward, his arms are a bit longer or at least feel longer with how he's more hunched, but the design in 2008, sure, it's a bit cartoony, but man, I love the giant hands and feet and wider profile, it really works for me and I miss it so much. Also, when are we gonna get The Leader since he was set up? Get your head out of your ass Universal and push your weight around like Sony did with Spider-Man, set out to make a Hulk movie and make Marvel Studios play ball. As for Hulk in Infinity War, according to the audio commentary, Hulk isn't scared, he's tired of being forced to play the hero, which I say is absolutely not what is implied with him being trounced by Thanos. Hulk doesn't want to come out and fight because he feels like he's being objectified, like he's just another tool in the belt of the Avengers? That's actually not a bad idea for a story, but in Infinity War of all things? Makes much more sense that he's scared because Thanos took him down with skilled fighting prowess in a matter of seconds. And yeah Endgame, man, I mean, I like that Bruce and Hulk found a way to coexist, but we didn't really get any of the journey of that, and I love your martial arts ideas. Everything with Captain Marvel in Endgame is pretty underwhelming because she is so overpowered and underdeveloped for this massive journey we have been on because she was only introduced a few months earlier and was absent the whole movie, never even went on the Time Heist. All the guns turn on just her? She couldn't have even come flying in with a bunch of Nova Corps ships flanking her? Would've made more sense even if she could still blow up Thanos' ship all by herself. I do like the little exchange where Thanos headbutts her and resorts to the Power Stone to get her away from him, but yeah, I'd have liked to see the Hulk keep him distracted and maybe even nearly break Thanos' wrist to keep him from snapping his fingers. Hulk deserved better. There's great moments sprinkled throughout the MCU, but more could have been done. A lot of it probably comes down to cost and time management, but they also just shot themselves in the foot making him Professor Hulk where he has to be a big CGI man all the time now.

One of the issues I have among other things mentioned in the video is that they've basically made Hulk into what made She-Hulk so special. He's not like Professor Hulk in the comics (which is still Hulk but intelligent) and instead just Bruce who's is just big and green now. That should've been Jennifer thing, to be able to be in her Hulk form but still remain Jen more or less because of how she views herself and her Hulk form

If there's anything we needed a Disney + show for, it was what happened to Bruce and Hulk between Infinity War and Endgame

We wanted World Breaker Hulk and got Yoga Hulk 😩😭

You know I recently read the entire Immortal Hulk comic run recently and I was reminded why I love this character, he’s a horror story. A fear of the atomic age and the destructive power and hubris of man. A Jekyll and Hyde for the modern age. With how they’ve built the Hulk within the confines of only being a cameo character I don’t think we’ll ever truly see the horror of the Hulk. End-Game was the point of no return, he has to be a sanitized joke guy now who’s being phased out in favor of She-Hulk, which while I am also a big fan of She-Hulk I really wish we got something more out of the og before phasing him out.

Natasha isn't a monster because she can't have kids. She's a monster because the thing that anchors her in community and as a woman is something she gave up for the sake of killing. Rather than being one who nurtures and protects life, she is one who has nothing but red in her ledger. She gets her redemption arc in Endgame - she sends Clint home to his family, she does what she should've been able to do for a long time, to give hope, and sacrifices herself for that cause. This is a similar core character issue as Bethany in Kevin Smith's Dogma. As Alan Rickman's Metatron says: "You're being given the chance to play mother to the whole world, by protecting it." The fact that people reduce the hysterectomy to purely about "having kids" rather than having kids itself be a full realization of Natasha's desire to be more than Black Widow, more than the killer, but to protect, raise, and restore all the red on her ledger - to form family bonds and be anchored in community - is an absolutely baffling misread of the scene and of her character.

13:22 I've long wondered if Bruce telling Tony in Infinity War when the Black Order shows up "yeah but since when do I get what I want" was a fully known callback to this moment

"thanos won against the Hulk through skill" also because apparently injuries are not thing in the MCU. Takes a lot to make Thanos bleed but he still can, but blunt force trauma doesn't seem exist considering Hulk was almost exclusively trying to cave in Thanos's skull

My son is autistic and struggles with balancing emotional extremes. Hulk is by far his favorite and I asked him why. He said that he understands the explosive anger Bruce has and relates to the challenge of drives to just explode with rage. I love the idea of the juxtaposition of intense emotional expression and integrating constructive soothing techniques/various martial arts for more focused fighting and (let's face it) total domination!! Big emotions are ok but I too would have preferred a laser focused badass over an overpowered geek. Anyway, thanks as always!! We both love your content.

Marvel...offer this man a multi year contract to write the next phases of the MCU!

I'd personally love to see Mark Ruffallo lend his voice to an animated continuation of the 1970s Hulk TV show. He at least is capable of conveying the vulnerability of Bruce (or in the show: David) Banner

I really loved the chemistry between Banner ,and Romanov. I'm not sure why it didn't work for you. I thought it was great. When professor hulk said he tried to bring Nat Back I felt for the green guy.

Fun Fact: Universal owns The Incredible Hulk which is why he may or may not show up in Multiversus. It's almost the same as the Sony Spider-Man situation. Disney is not allowed to make solo Hulk films without Universal. It's all a big mess.

My favorite Hulk moment is when he takes Loki and shakes him like a rag doll.🤣🤣🤣🤣

The dichotomy of meek man and big green monster was what made him interesting to me. Making him a meek green man as he is now...just isn't as interesting to watch. It just stops the hulk character from developing past Thor Ragnorak, leaving us only with green Bruce

I feel somehow Joss Weedon delivered the most badass Hulk and banner of all the directors

When I see the is it makes me realize, they did kinda muddle the hulk, and he’s one of my actual favorites in the comics, and now am sad 😔

If Hulk would have busted out of the armor it would have been awesome, grandiose, symbolic, earned and one of the greatest scenes in marvel history.

I'm not even halfway through the video yet so I don't know if you mention this but Bruce Banner gives me different vibes in Avengers 2012 that I don't see again really. In Avengers he carries a much heavier presence that seems to match his character. A genius man with the burden of having the most dangerous thing on earth dwell within him. I haven't seen Ultron too many times so he might still have the vibe in there but after that he turns into a joke. He becomes a clueless nerd caught in a violent conflict. It feels like he doesn't even have the Hulk in him anymore. They feel much more separate. Which makes him turning into Professor Hulk feel a lot more out of place. Not only did we skip over the arc he goes through to become that, but it feels like we degressed in the arc since 2012. If I am wrong about anything please fill me in.

"They kinda messed him up a little bit" They BUTCHERED HULK.

Y'know, I know this is a Hulk video, but I just wanna clarify that Black Widow thing because a lot of critics say the same thing that was brought up in this. They started talking about her being unable to have kids, yes, and then she says this: “One less thing to worry about, the one thing that might matter more than a mission. It makes everything easier, even killing. You still think you're the only monster on the team?” See the flow of thought? It's not being unable to have kids that makes her a monster; it's that, more than any other person on the team (except probably Hulk), she finds killing easy. That's why she relates to Bruce. When she's on a mission, it's akin to Bruce being Hulked out---nothing will get in her way. Not Steve being concerned that she didn't tell him about her separate instructions from Fury (Winter Soldier), and not even Hawkeye trying to save her own life (Endgame). The Black Widow will see her goals done through to the end.

OMG Don Cheadle hit the nail on the head. He was joking but its true, "you would be horrible alone."

Imagine if Bruce Banner being in the Shang chi post credit scene is never addressed and he’s just professor hulk from now on. Part of me wouldn’t be surprised

18:58 Thanos shouldn't have been able to overpower him THAT easily, until he had more stones. They should have had a pretty epic fight and Thanos just clearly edge him

The "I LOVE YOU!" from Banner talking to Hulk...that scene should've been left in. Marvel now knows that people will watch 3+ hour movies if they're good, but they have to be GOOD. So they should keep as much of the original script in the movies as possible.

"Why big green man no smash no more?" The hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets right? So.. with that lore already in check, a hulk who is at peace with himself is going to be a lot weaker and it makes sense cannonically.

You actually kind of changed my mind about the Hulk with this video. Before, I just didn't really like the Hulk at all, but now I'm... kinda sad about the fact that he was just completely sidelined.

The Hulk used to be one of my favorite character and this video remidned me on why. I really wish they would have waited to bring in Professor Hulk until later, because seeing him make that transformation off screen was flabbergasting. I do wish they would have leaned more into the dynamic of Bruce balancing his life with Hulk & their relationship with Natasha; the stuff that was there about these relationships was good, there just wasn't enough. Also, a good way to bring professor Hulk in could have been during the second snap because of the comprimise that would happen between the 2 + the infinity stone magic. But yeah, Marvel kinda did this great character dirty. (Although I really do like Mark Ruffalo in that role)

Totally agree with what you said about The Incredible Hulk, especially the last fight. Its a good movie with great action and I really don’t understand a lot of the criticism it gets given that the MCU has done worse with the likes of Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Ant Man 2, and almost all of the D+ shows.

The Russo brothers man.....They really did my boi Hulk dirty.

Hulk is my favourite superhero, and to see the way he's been mishandled and thrown to the wayside slightly is extremely disheartening. It feels like a pipedream that Hulk quite literally used to be Marvel's second most popular character after Spiderman, but that was genuinely how it was pre-mcu. The fact they have not explored the relationship between Hulk and banner nearly enough, not delved into an extremely rich and harrowing backstory, made the character a bit of a joke for laughs is just a little depressing. Especially as someone who grew up reading the planet Hulk comic.

You know what makes the Hulk vs Abomination fight even better? The fact it doesn't shake your screen.

I always thought being around the other avengers and forging those bonds made him more accepting of his situation and pulled him out of the dark place he was in. I'm fine with funny hulk, but the one from the first avengers movie was definitely more interesting

About that Age of Ultron scene with Black Widow, people MASSIVELY misinterpret what she's saying there. She isn't saying, "I can't have kids; you think you're the only monster here?". She's saying, "I **gave up** my ability to have kids - to create and new life and bring into the world, to make myself more effective at ending life; you think you're the only monster here?" Those are 2 vastly different statements and ideas. She isn't a monster because she's sterile; she's a monster because she willing became sterile purely to become a more efficient killing machine

Hulk has always been my favourite marvel character since I was little and I completely agree with you it’s so depressing the one character I love the most can’t have a proper solo film until universal give the rights back but shouldn’t they’ve expired by now like sony etc had to keep making films to keep the rights

Smart Hulk is the worst thing the MCU has done to one of their main heroes. What makes the Hulk interesting is the conflict between him and Bruce Banner, and this not only gets rid of that conflict, but they did it off-screen.

One of the problems with Thanos being the ultimate antagonist that he was is that not everyone could have their satisfying moment against him or their rematch or a cathartic end to their relationship. Drax for example, Nebula for another, Thor got his “I went for the head moment” but ultimately it of course came down to Stark, now I love that it did but the very nature of it is that not everyone could have their moment. I actually really like that Banner/Hulk didn’t feel the need for a round 2, he went down a different path and for me it was the smart choice otherwise Endgame would need to be another half hour to give everyone their moment against Thanos, not that I or I imagine anyone would complain at that. Do I think they’ve maybe gone for the smart Hulk angle too soon, yeah probably, but who’s to say we won’t get a Worldbreaker Hulk in the future, imagine if he was the threat the Thunderbolts have to go up against for example? That makes sense to me. As to why he goes down that path I can’t say, maybe he just loses it if Clint dies and he is the only original Avenger left? Shame they already used Planet Hulk so that can’t be the resolution to a worldbreaker storyline but maybe Scarlet Witch or Strange or someone else can bring him back

Imagine a world where Bruce comes to terms with the Hulk like in the deleted scene in endgame, and just as they finally work things out, Thanos does his snap, and suddenly the Hulk turns to dust, and banner is left standing. Gives a brilliant opening for banner to have a reason to be happy in a post snap world, gives him conflict on unsnapping all the victims, and even lets them move forward onto professor Hulk as the snap has "unforeseen circumstances" then we get professor Hulk as he is now. Fast forward to now, a new Hulk film, or show, something along those lines, and you could have professor Hulk start having nightmares and hallucinations of the Hulk accusing banner of locking him up, wasting his potential. "All that talk of love, just to put me back in the cage" There was a line Hulk could have gone on, and little would've changed, and been all the more nuanced a character for it

It's always seemed so weird to me that Hulk, probably one of the top three Marvel characters (in terms of public recognition at the start of the MCU at least) gets almost all of his character development off-screen. Like, I don't hate Professor Hulk at all, he's a great character, but Marvel skipping over how Bruce went from broken and unable to even bring the Hulk out in an end of the world scenario to Professor Hulk is criminal. It's hard to see how they can fully explore a lot of Hulk's themes anymore, with where the character is currently. Banner has to be isolated and alone for you to really understand his curse. Where he is at the moment, everyone loves him, kids are walking up to Hulk and asking for selfies, it just doesn't work. I guess they could explore the interim between Infinity War and End Game, have him feel useless after the snap, have the isolation be self-imposed, and maybe Bruce tries some things to bring out the Hulk and it goes badly and we get some of the other versions of Hulk making an appearance. That could work, although Black Widow kind of put me off the idea of going back and exploring time between other movies, because nothing in that movie felt it had any weight or mattered to what we know came next. The only other way I can see it working is that you take maybe a character like the Leader, boost his psychic abilities and have him control Hulk to do some bad stuff, make him the villain in the public perception again. Maybe even hide that this is what's happening at first, pitch it as Bruce/Hulk losing control and going too far and he goes more and more off the rails, questioning who is in control, he is forced underground, we get to explore some of his other personas, and then maybe the realisation that Hulk and Bruce need to work together to stop what's being done to them. I dunno though, it feels like maybe the ship has sailed already on another big solo Hulk project. I'm still looking forward to She Hulk so I guess let's see where that leaves our jolly green giant by the end.

For the last time, Hulk was not scared to face Thanos. Thanos wasn’t even present when Hulk refused to come out both times in Infinity War.

When Infinity war ended I was very intrigued in where he Hulk's journey was heading. Bruce literally teases on it saying him and hulk is gonna have a lot of conversation. And at the Endgame, they just skipped his character progress off screen and made him a comic relief. People seemed to have laughed on the Taco scene but I actively facepalmed.

I can only imagine how deadly hulk could be if he was as smart as Banner. Merging the two, you would get an angry, possessive, remorseless character who can easily make biological and artificial weapons to enhance his strengths. No one would ever cross him, and he would have full awareness of this. I picture that he would be very possessive of his lab and work -- "Tony, if you touch that wire, I will tear you limb from limb. Stay out." He would have been so, so badass and interesting.

There is so much left that is interesting to explore with the Hulk. Grey Hulk, Doc Sampson, Rick Jones, The Maestro, The Pantheon. They just have other things they want to do more.

I completely agree. Although, now I'm getting really tired getting let down by Disney/marvel on how they ridicule every character just because having a dramatic character could lead the audience to feel bad emotions. The Hulk is my favourite character (in comics) and I have wanted a Hulk movie for a long time, but I really think they're going to sideline him. Maybe he could be a mentor for the Young Avengers. I hope a little that something happens in the SheHulk show that takes him back to a darker place or maybe just seeing abomination brings back an imbalance to his relationship between hulk and Bruce or maybe, in the future, there will be a Hulk Family show/film that could see him as a leader, but sadly I doubt that. The MCU needs to understand that the contrast between a dramatic character like bruce and a fun one, like Thor, would benefit even the comedy. If everyone is funny, than no one will be truly funny. I hope my comment makes some sense

I completely agree, and think that the Hulk was catastrophically wasted, especially in Endgame, as the Hulk personality is basically neutered. I would do something slightly different for him in Endgame. When he's holding up the compound, the rage at losing Natasha along with the burst of gamma causes the reawakening of the Hulk personality. After lifting the compound off his friends, he roars at Thanos and attacks him. Using Bruce's intelligence and Jujitsu techniques in tandem with his raw power and gladiator training, he pummels Thanos. As his eyes glow green, he yells "Hulk Smash!" and cracks Thanos' armour. Then he thunderclaps Thanos, knocking him off his feet and through a small hill of debris and continues on a rampage against his forces, perhaps to save someone else.

I know Ang Lees 2003 film isn’t looked upon kindly, but I still think that film does a great job at showing a unique take on the darkness of the hulk. In the film, Hulk is a sort of hidden anger and resentment to Banners father, who experimented on him and killed his mother. This in turn causes Banner to develop a temper when his past life is mentioned, going so far as to scream at his dad when he makes an appearance after the accident. When hulk initially comes out, you see that it’s the bottled up anger from all those years ago finally all coming back, and Hulk is the trauma given to Bruce punishing the world. Even when his dad tries to calm him down, you see the memories of the good life Bruce had as a baby, but the pure hatred against his father for what he did causes the hulk to snap back to his angry self. I think it’s a great commentary on the cycle of abuse and how abusive parenting lasts long after the parent is gone from the picture. I know people like to say the film is a bore because it’s not just “hulk smash” all the time, but I think if it were released today, it would’ve been treated just like Joker was in 2019, and it would’ve been considered a deeper take on the superhero genre. And I wish that some inspiration would be taken from it in terms of story and action, because I don’t care what anyone says, hulk vs the tanks is mad hype

I think actually seeing Banner and Hulk merge into Professor Hulk would have done so much for his arc. Don't understand why they didn't do that

Honestly based off this video, all it seems Hulk needed was the cut Infinity War scene, maybe a tweak to show Hulk is still there, but Banner gets to be in charge now. Then in Endgame, a few conversations between Banner/Hulk to show they're working together instead of Banner fully in charge, a foreshadowy "I got this one big guy" when Banner does the Snap, then the payoff "This one mine Puny Banner" as Hulk lets out his new fighting style, informed by Banner's brains, for the big 4v1 Thanos fight

17:10 I’ve always found this take incredibly, ludicrously reductive, and I think you have to actively not be paying attention to what Age of Ultron is actually saying to co-sign it. No, Nat is NOT calling herself a monster because she “can’t have kids”. She’s calling herself a monster because part of her bodily autonomy was taken away so she could be *better at murdering people.* Really peeves me that “no babies = monster” is still all some people take away from that arc after 7 years.

Thank you for not completely sh-tting on The Incredible Hulk. I always enjoyed it and actually liked that character model the best...

i think another thing is that the movies are a lot more accessable than the comics, so myself and a lot of other mcu fans had no context for 'proffessor hulk' (which if i remember right he isnt even refered to as) as this 'development' came even more out of nowhere. i wouldve loved to see him actually deal with his shit. i think a lot of the mcu movies could handle having a bit more texture to them. far from home was a rad movie but i wouldve loved to see it touch on heavier topics of imposter syndrome and loss. black widow has one of the heaviest backstories out of the avengers and her movie felt like such a disservice to her. we dont see a lot of the actual trauma of her childhood, or what she is fighting for, a lot of it is left to be implied but for an origin story esque movie they had a lot more story to play with. and hulk is left totally underused and underdeveloped. we know next to nothing about the person bruce or the moster of hulk. we dont get to see them enough to know how one feels about the other besides quips in ragnarok. sometimes it feels as though we are expected to already have this context going into the movies.

What if we had seen Bruce in Endgame as ...just Bruce. He hasn't turned into Hulk since Infinity War ended. He is finally free but not happy. He finally has what he's wanted for years but feels like he has a part of him missing. Instead of Hulk running around saving people, he's doing it as Bruce Banner. Using his own genius intellect to fight crime and create technologies to help people. Then they go through the whole scenario with the tine heist and when Brice asks Clint where Nat is, he falls into despair and loses control and all his anger and rage slips out releasing the Hulk, but this time it's like the World War Hulk, where both Brice and Hulk are working together making them stronger and smarter than usual. We get a rematch with Thanos where Hulk nearly kills the mad titan only to be stopped when Thanos activates an infinity stone.

I think you hit the nail on the head off the hop, the Universal relationship is the issue. I think we often forget the biz side of these films and this one is very much a combo of that relationship and some soft grosses on the 2 standalones. I love the hulk, but from the biz side, I think this situation will continue to park him the back and in the passenger seat at best.

I thought, with him being an actor and all, Mark Ruffalo had to try to transform himself into the Hulk as a character. I wasn’t aware you could just reverse it and make the Hulk transform into Mark Ruffalo.

I agree with you. Hulk has been ruined. They just erased fourteen years of character development in Endgame by removing the character entirely. All that is left is Banner. Hulk no longer exists. It's such a waste of a character. I do disagree that 2008 Hulk was good though. It was rather meh.

The thing I'm most sad about is that the way the mcu is going we'll never get to see the World War Hulk storyline, which is my personal favorite marvel storyline ever.

I feel like there was a HUGE and irresponsibly missed opportunity in Infinity War with having Bruce in the Hulkbuster suit having hulk bust out of the suit (heh pun) and helping thor change the obvious tide in wakandas battle with the outriders. And then to add on even is to have still the scene with all of the avengers trying to stop Thanos and still not be able to but with one huge difference being that the last 2 avengers being that of Thor and Hulk also trying to stop Thanos and giving him a really good run for his money in a very tensionfilled and serious fight somewhat reminiscent of having Dr strange trying to keep Thanos from using the gauntlet as much as possible but still inevitably having Thanos the winner of the fight that would have made for a epic finale to an already amazing movie with some minor edits to it and fixing hulks character by having him and Bruce make up and try to beat Thanos with thor tag teaming with hulk as well.

*2003 HULK is the best Hulk movie, with 2008 behind it. I have NO idea what Disney was thinking with how they butchered my favorite Avenger.*

You just HAD to post this while I was editing my video about how Hulk in Endgame is Good, Actually.

In Age of Ultron, Natasha doesn't think she's a monster because she's infertile, she thinks she's a monster because she's a coldblooded murderer. The way the line is phrased makes it sound like it's the infertility thing that weighs on her conscience, so it makes sense that you (and pretty much everyone else) got the wrong impression from that scene. In Infinity War, Hulk doesn't cooperate because he's sick of being Bruce's "Get of of Jail Free" card. The director's commentary of the movie makes it clear that Hulk was removed from that story to force Bruce to be the self-reliant hero for once. It had nothing to do with being afraid of Thanos. That said, I still think Prof Hulk bursting out of the Hulkbuster suit would be the better course of action, especially because after that fight, we see Natasha try to do the Lullaby, only for Banner to say "Don't worry, we figured it out." Ultimately, I do agree that Prof Hulk opening a martial arts can whoop-ass on Thanos in place of Captain Marvel in Endgame would've been awesome. And maybe the reason he's still beaten (forcing Tony to take the Stones) could have something to do with his fried arm.

Hulk is the most criminally misunderstood superhero not only in Marvel, but across the superhero genre

Great video, as always. Endgame felt like a letdown to everything they had built up for every character. I have a theory though, which I doubt will be the case, that the reason they didn’t show us them resolve their issues and merge is because Bruce is lying. From what we’re shown, Bruce and Hulk are two separate individuals, with their own thoughts and feelings. Professor Hulk though seems to be entirely Bruce’s mind with access to Hulk’s body and strength, but what does Hulk get out of this deal? I feel like Bruce trapped Hulk in the equivalent of the sunken place from Get Out or Malkovich, and hopefully World War Hulk (if it’s not cancelled) will be Hulk breaking out.

FYI, Black Widow says she’s a monster because she was conditioned to be - it got to the point that taking a life was easy to her. That is what makes her a monster. Killing with no remorse. She even goes on to say that the Red Room removed anything that might matter more than a mission, which is bearing a child. Her not being able to conceive kids, is letting Bruce know they are in the same boat.

Mark Ruffalo is fucking perfect as the hulk. In the avengers he’s *so* beaten down yet clearly desperate to do good - the real sucker was endgame; the mcu hulk was not developed enough in its original hulk to suddenly switch to professor hulk.

Hulk doing Jiu-jitsu against Thanos instead of Captain Marvel is just perfect

They have misused Hulk constantly, but my biggest problem with him remains the actor himself. Mark Ruffalo is a perfectly nice guy, but I always felt he was miscast as the hulk, and I can't take him seriously. He looks good as the Hulk and he plays the subtleties of Bruce Banner well, but I can't say he's even near the 'perfect Hulk' like I'd say for RDJ's iron Man

my dream of the next MCU Hulk solo movie would take notes from how the Breaking Bad Universe utilizes flashbacks or "missing scenes" to emphasize character growth/development. Vince Giligan and Peter Gould used this a lot in El Camino and used it even more especially in this last season of Better Call Saul. The characters of Jesse Pinkman and Saul/Gene/Jimmy were developed and concluded really well with the flashback scenes contributing further context and emphasis to how far the characters have gone to the contrast of succeeding scenes in the present timeline. I can imagine this being used with "missing scenes" from the movies that Hulk has appeared in and contrast them with the current character conflict being done in the "present timeline" of the movie. Will Vince Giligan or Peter Gould ever take on an MCU project? I hope so!