Mass Effect 3 - The Indoctrination Theory CleverNoob Documentary Part 2 Reupload 

did they actually say that somewhere? do you have a link pls?

@@herrenhessen8609 www.gamesradar.com/mass-effect-3s-indoctrination-fan-theory-is-incorrect-but-the-devs-love-it/

@@mickeyveach3612 cheers!

@@mickeyveach3612 I would take Chris Hepler's opinion with a grain of salt, he was a Bioware Writer yes, but he was only brought in after 3/6 of the original writers left (which is why the story for ME2 changed so drastically, and his main work was weapon codex entries and planet entries, nothing relating to the major overarching plot, and he only did this work for ME2 and 3 not the first one. No matter what you think of the indoctrination theory, even after the extended cut, the ending sequence of the game literally HAS to be a dream as every single element of it makes absolutely zero sense otherwise.

@@mw5769 I fail to see how his specific job and entry point of said job means I have to take it with a grain of salt. He wasn't some third string writer detached from the going ons. Bioware writers all peer review their works together and have dedicated meetings about every scene. He knew every scene thoroughly. Also, according to Karpyshyn himself they didn't even have an ending planned yet at the time of making 1 so Hepler's lack of involvement in that one doesn't discredit him. The original ending was about dark energy and the reapers trying to prevent The Big Crunch (which ME2 foreshadows and Hepler was on staff with them at the time). But stupid EA made them change the ending with an 18 month development window. I know it's hard to believe, but the IT theory was not intentional. But its still valid.

The reaper wins anyways in the long run no matter how prepared the galaxy is but good idea to the low ems ending

Late comment but from memory if u save the collector base and have low ems then the only ending available is the control ending. If the reapers have already won, why is it necessary to indoctrinate shepard? Furthermore why can't shepard fight back against the indoctrination by choosing the destroy ending?

@@krisxchirbas9503 Harbinger basically wants Shepard to be the mind behind the human reaper

Now you know how people back into 2012 feel. The original ending was so lame and cheap(in light of whole 3 games), so fans can't really believe it was true.

@@ErGeSl For me Extended ending isn't any better. But it's just my opinion. I believe that Indoctrination Theory gives much better conclusion of all 3 games. It brings back the idea of Reapers being powerful beyond our understanding back from ME 1. And show us that they are much more inteligent then is shown in ME 3.

How.

Why else would they make a Mass Effect 4 with shepard? It ends in a cliffhanger with the reapers taking over Earth but shepard still surviving. In Mass Effect 4 we would really have to take back Earth by destroying Illusive Mans final form controlled by Harbinger the way Sarens final form controlled by Sovereign

We have a word for that: gullible.

@Lomborg That too.

I mean, one of the first civilians you meet tells you about the sound boring right into your brain.

it would make sense for that they had started on eden prime made more progress when the collectors pick you up (Laira(i think) mentioned that the shadow broker had stolen you from the collectors)) and again with the exposure to the human reaper, with shep inside the dead reaper and with the exposure with arrival DLC and you fuck around with reaper tech daily with ME3

Yup. Even all of the people we talk to on Eden Prime describe what IT sounds like.

@Lomborg Shepard was exposed to many Reaper artifacts in ME1. There was one on Feros and many side missions lead you to research bases that had one. Then there is Vermire.

well mass effect andromeda killed this theory but maybe they do new mass effect game maybe maybe sorry for bad eng

Red GTR no andromeda was a prequel to mass effect 3

@@ulysses3083 yes and no. Yes, the opening cinematic showing the initiative leaving the Milky Way is before ME3, but everything after Ryder wakes up is centuries after 3

@Lonely Shadow Oh stop it wasn't that bad. Sure the story didn't have the depth as the trilogy but the gameplay was much better. using the Nomad and exploring the planets was actually enjoyable. They had a map that wasn't a literal meme... Looking at you ME3 and your stupid little cat and mouse mini game crap. There was a lot of really good things about ME;A just not the writing and dialogue... I mean seriously we had like nothing when it came to choosing our own path of how to handle certain situations.

@Lonely Shadow Andromeda was done by a different BioWare studio. Not their Montreal but again ME;A had the best gameplay of the games but the story was sooooo linear. A couple of the loyalty missions were some of the best in all of Mass Effect. Andromeda had plenty that was good about it just didn't have the same replayability as the og games. On top of the gameplay being much faster paced and really enjoyable on the highest difficulties the amount of builds you could do was also way more varied than the OG games. Just lacked the same kind of story telling and voice acting.

explain me one thing , how dose Shepard destroys the reapoers with his mind? if he is dreaming the entier time!?

@@darthmarr9886 It didn't. Basically yes, as soon as Shepard gets beamed by Harbinger, it's all happening in his/her head... RIGHT UP until the last, final gasp when he/she supposedly wakes up in the very last scene among the rubble (That only happens if you chose the Destroy ending and also have enought military strenght before the final assault)

@@alphamorion4314 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 So then how Shepards destroyed the reapers if Shepard was dreaming? This theory is so stupid.

@@darthmarr9886 ... I believe you're missing the point, friend XD He DIDN'T destroy the Reapers XD That's the whole point of the indoctrination theory, it was all on his/her head XD

@@alphamorion4314 so "mass effect 4" starts with destroying them? What stupid ending is this then? If its just a dream, then this is the worst story ending of all time. It's not even over. Why would Bioware do that, when they clearly said multiple times they wanted a trilogy. And Shepards story is over? Hey believe in what theory you want, but it is still stupid and makes even less sense then the one bioware made.

What do you think of the levaithan DLC?

with the teaser trailer of ME4 released. it is now time to resurrect the indoctrination theory and tie it into the trailer. this must be done.

Nice! Thank you for the Update!

I am eternally grateful to you for exposing me to Zallex's Levitate.

@@drazam6608 This! i wanna know too

@@Anonymous-xu2qk this was an old ass comment, lol.

I think it also applies when sometimes you’re given a renegade prompt but you experience no renegade points from performing it

@@JuanGarcia-fd9oo I think I would have preferred no renegade or paragon and instead just have the actions have tangible outcomes for what you did. The whole renegade/paragon thing is a bit arbitrary. I especially hate how being neutral is such a bad thing in this game, as is mixing renegade and paragon actions.

@@trslim6032 Here’s hoping mass effect 4 gets rid of the system, I love the mass effect series to death even if mass effect 3 was not up to par to the other games. But, like you said it’s hard to have a enjoyable mixed play through. Mass effect andromeda was terrible compared to the trilogy but I appreciated the lack of the system even though your choices didn’t matter much in that game.

Yes, that's also what I think. It just makes sense on multiple leves. Not only because the indoctrination theory just automatically covers a LOT of plotholes and fixes them "naturally", but also if they reframe ME3 ending confirming the indoctrination theory, then that means we never got to know how the war was ACTUALLY resolved. Ergo, that means that they can basically move in wichever direction they see fit and have a lot of creative freedom without being "hardlocked" by one specific canonical ending.

@@alphamorion4314 Yeah. But this is EA we are talking about. The logic won't sway them, though annoying the fan base might

@@jasonitaliano8631 True. Funny though... at least on paper, it would seem the smart thing to do also on a monetary level. But then again... it would seem the smart thing to actually deliver proper games instead of rushed and barely finished ones... soo... yeah. EA.

I wouldn't take what one ex-dev said about the theory too seriously because there were a lot of ideas in the pot that he might not of known about and the claim the guy made that they hadn't laid the necessary ground work for a indoctrination ending is wrong, even as far back as ME1 with Seran, Bioware as we know change the original planned ending as it was leaked and I think they considered it too complicated, time consuming and or not entirely finished so they went for something that was different to a typical story ending but simpler to make

It's also definitely not the Viper Nebula anyway. On the Galaxy map he shows, the Viper Nebula is ostensibly completely on its own on that wing of the galaxy, whereas when we see the Crucible fire, the first one the blast is fired at is RIGHT next to the origin point. Still not the Local Cluster, but it's most assuredly also not the Viper Nebula.

And if you refuse or shot the child, a reaper voices says: So be it. So he is a reaper for sure.

Honestly I never thought abiut that in relation to mass effect but it has undeniable relevance here

@@lali_kay Harbinger is basically space Satan!! At least as far as I am concerned...

So does God; that is why it is effective to do so.

Satan, the deceiver, is also a made up thing

@@I_am_a_cat_ peanut brain go back to 2012 or read a book

That's something I've heard too. Would definitely be interesting to see and maybe they could the antagonist of a Mass Effect sequel taking place in the Milky Way. But they do share a lot in common with the Reapers and are basically organic Reapers.

@@matro2 the Reapers are organic though. Well… they are synthetics created directly from Organic material. Their Minds are organic. Another reason that Starbrat is lying about controlling them.

The fact that there is very few of them left and that we are fully aware and equipped against their main form of attack. The orbs. So far as we've seen the leviathan's don't have natural laser eyes or impenetrable armour neither do they possess the harvesting technology to create infinite cannon fodder. I'm thinking they are just giant psychic crabs the only advantage the fact that they gained consciousness before everyone else this controlling the galaxy from behind by the orbs.

Watching this years after the release, excited for the remaster. I laughed when he got to that🤣🤣🤣

Okay, that's a wonderful explanation on how the kid went through the locked door - honestly... The issue is, how did the kid get there in the first place? It's clearly the same kid that was playing on a lower building across the way with 0 connection to the building we see him in next (which, we had)... so how did he decend his 20+ story building, make it all the way to the building we see him in next, then scale, or climb (via stairs or even elevator) to the top floor of the jet building, even faster than we did with a direct path to it... it's just mind blowing on how he would of made it... or even why..? I didn't even think about the explosion that takes place, which also should have killed him, but the kid travels at Mach 5 to make it there before we do.... it is so odd how that happens, coupled with the fact that no one else seems to see him in the series..

You forget that you have to be up close to the door for it to open, and even going a bit slightly too far from it and it closes. The door opens when the kid is way too far for him to have affected the door.

+Laser Pictures yeah, i think that was the point more than talking to shepard (if they wanted him to not talk to TIM)

sadly the theory isnt not canon, the messages were made before the end of mass effect 3

@@Cichyhub the only thing we know that is canon is Destroy ending which give IT a rather high chance of being canon. We will find out in ME4

@@Cichyhub I know it's not canon, but the fun part is that it still could be. :) There were no messages of any kind intercepted by that ship for the hundreds of years of stasis after those last final emergency ones... Which could be interpreted as galaxy destruction. But, I'm sure the dev's won't have the guts to go with that direction, preferring to stick with a pre-populated MW galaxy of settings and characters.

Shepard has been undergoing the process since Eden Prime.

Right and the reapers try to be careful with how much influence they apply to subjects they try to keep alive like saren. It says in the codex it destroys subjects quickly quickly if direct control is assumed and using Shepard to sabotage the war effort is more valuable than just killing him to them

I also think that is true, since in other IT video it was said that when shepard wakes up in the rubble he hears through radio that anderson is on citadel

@@jakub9802 I'm not sure the IT theory is true in its entirety, but there's 100% some deeper meaning to the ending that hasn't been fully revealed. I don't care what anyone says. There's pieces of the ending that don't make any sense if you discount IT entirely. - How did Anderson make it to the citadel at all, and if he did how did he 'follow Shepard up' yet somehow end up infront of him? Why would the beam cause two people to end up in different locations? Seems very counter productive if you want to harvest humans to make a reaper, it's a lot more work to move bodies from separate locations. - Shepard looks dead when they first arrive at the citadel, then Anderson says their name and we hear an odd jolting kind of sound, and they spring back to life. That sound isn't heard anywhere else in the game, what is it and why did it happen here? Someone had to record that audio and add it into the scene, its not there for no reason. - Shepard suddenly gets the same wound as Anderson after the encounter with TIM, where did this wound come from? Shepard was shot in the shoulder but definitely not in the stomach. - Shepard once again is clearly dead when the citadel platform raises them up to meet the catalyst. Then the catalyst says the word 'wake' and Shepard is suddenly back to life. Wake sounds an awful lot more like a command then it does the catalyst trying to get Shepard to wake up. This stuff wasn't added for no reason.

If you are strong willed like Shepard your headcanon can be whatever you want it to be :)

BW's ending is crap to begin with. Either choose what the IM wants with Control, or fulfill Saren's goal with Synthesis. Destroy's the only option. Apparently we're going back to the Milky Way with ME4. I still believe parts of the IT, while still believing ME4 is just a cash grab since there really isn't much of a story left to tell in the Milky Way if Shep (BW) had to choose an ending. Even if the war was still going on, allied forced are gonna be completely decimated at Earth.

Bioware has never officially denounced it. Not even a lead writer

@@thebk247 Ill just leave this here www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2021/02/12/bioware-confirms-once-and-for-all-mass-effect-3s-indoctrination-theory-wasnt-true/?sh=33716dde2df9

@@LightsCameraJake yes. One large clickbait title to show that only one ex write commented on it. That same writer wasn’t even a major writer and hasn’t worked for bioware in a long time. BioWare themselves have never made such statements.

Yeah the olympic champion of jumping to conclusions.

My first play through I just remember having a lot of "hey, that's weird," moments that made me squint my eyes and tilt my head. Once I got to the final decision I just thought okay cool I'll just go left to right. After choosing the control option and seeing my eyes change I immediately jumped and said oh I got indoctrinated. Then the rest of the ending went on. so I did the synthesis option and saw the same eyes thing, then I did the destroy ending. When I saw the final scene where Shepard breathes I went into full mind blown mode. Just way too many things that can't be explained and I just can't say that it was all lazy writing when up until the run down the hill the game was so masterfully written and well executed. So many articles about how the game was perfect until the final 15 minutes.

thats after the free dlc. Befor the dlc your team always died on the run to the beam.

I have only seen the extended cut version; do thmy honestly actually only die?? No latter what?? Thats crazy!!

I honestly think they rushed the end and any programmer who rushes makes a lot of mistakes. They didn't have the time to polish the end. To QA all the things you are criticising. I love the theory but it just misses some really crucial things like if it was a dream, they didn't stop the Reapers and the Reapers won anyway.

@@Shivian124 - The Indoctrination Theory actually *does* cover that by simply explaining "We didn't see the real ending" leaving it open-ended as to what could actually have happened after that ending charge to the beam of light. Any number of things could've happened during or after all of this being a dream. That being said, in ME: Andromeda, it's suggested that the Reapers really did win.

The interview guy was a minor writer with no involvement in the main story

none of you ever played the Leviathan DCL?!?

It's a translator on the Omni-Tool

He *does* mention him though. I don't remember exactly if he talks about the kid to Liara, after one of the dream sequences, or to Garrus. But at some point he *does* go something like: "There was a young boy back on Earth... could'nt have been more than six or seven. Somehow he didn't make it, while I'm still alive" or something along those lines

Couldn't agree more! Do you think they will have import mode again?

Deus ex machina in 3rd game should be reaper bait, its shown in canon that reapers set up tech and that they do absorb knowledge from each harvest, so it's easy to fabricate multi species eons spanning development and it serves to obfuscate real purpose, it's not like they lack time to set it up.

For me milky way is toast no matter what in this cycle, species have chance if they flee elsewhere and bunker down.

We all know that the theory isnt true, but it actually makes no sense and goes against the lore to go against it. I find it very hard to believe that shepard isnt indoctrinated. ME3 should have been more about shepards mental decline, almost like how spec ops the line did things or something along those lines. Another thought, I still dont understand how comments on these videos cling to disprove one point he made, once they disprove it they say the entire theory is wrong. There is more going for the indoctrination theory than goes against it. For me personally, bioware can disprove this but art is meant for interpretation. This is a mere interpretation, and to me this is how the game ends and the series ends.

Personally, even though it hasn't ever been confirmed and it has even been denied (as far as I know, at least), IT is still the thing that makes the most sense. Accepting the ending at face value just doesn't make any kind of logical sense, from any point... and sure, it might be pure lazy writing and extreme pressure that made the whole team go completely stupid. Still, for me personaly it's a real shame to go through the rilogy, enjoy almost every bit of it, and have it all fall flat on it's face in the last 10 minutes. It is a much more enoyable experience to consider IT as being true and what in fact happened, because it just... ... makes sense, you know?

Mass Effect 4 final battle with Harbinger taking over Illusive Mans final form

On that note, Shepherd would have become a stain after the citadel explosion

Problem is with them making mass effect 4 now is they HAVE to make one of the 3 endings canon. most likely it's going to be the destroy ending that's canon.

@@sumireravenclaw8034 true, unless they somehow retcon the ending to Mass Effect 3. But I don’t think they would be able to pull it off.

@@snakeEyedPirate Another option might be fully embracing this theory. The dev's have declared that it's entirely false, or at least entirely non intentional; still they liked it. Wouldn't even require so much retconning, simply watching at all the facts and say "Yeah this make much more sense" and use this going forward. Of course that would leave the TRUE ending completely unkown. We would known what happened in Shepard's head, but nothing regarding the actual state of the war. Wich means they could go whatever direction they prefer. Maybe the war is somehow still ongoing and the Reapers will still be our main villains. Or maybe the war was won by some plot devices, the conflict reached a resolution and we get a new conflict. As far as wich ending gets canonized (Destroy, Control, Synthesis)... the only thing it would change in that scenario would be if Shepard ever got fully indoctrinated, or he managed to resist and keep fighting the Reapers until the end. If ME4 ever allows the importing of the OT saves, that decision could mean different details in the universe while we get the navigate them and discovered them while playing as a new protagonist. Even maybe a protagonist from different playable races...? That would be cool.

@@sumireravenclaw8034 Destroy would have always been canon. If your EMS isnt high enough it is the only option. If your EMS is max, you get the real Destroy ending. Destroy was the motive all 3 games and you united the galaxy under that single purpose. Now way a change of mind in the last 10 minutes is canon.

@@alphamorion4314 Chris Hepler is not a Dev. He was a minor write that had no involvement in the main story. He also hasnt worked for Bioware since 2013.

Omega was the ONLY system with 2 relays

It is an oversight. This very same thing happens in Mass Effect 2 for a renegade interrupt.

DetectiveZoidberg Can you send a link to this forum.I would really like to read it.

DetectiveZoidberg Thanks :)

DetectiveZoidberg It´s not working.But Thanks anyway.

Finish what job, the ending is silly no matter how you spin it, its dumb. Yeah, lets totally build that thingy that we know nothing about, what that is, how it works or what it does, because some lackluster data shows that species from cycles before tried to develop and build it, nope, it cannot be that after harvest reapers left bait, adding distinct quirks from each consecutive harvest, it's not like they do set up tech to be found, no sir, this cannot be bait or doomsday device that will help with their goals. The only sensible thing was done by initiative, run. Milky way is toast no matter what player do, it's more of how much more will follow initiative, how thorough tracks will be cleansed and how clues for others emerging in next cycle will be left. Current species have no chance to fight back invasion. What happen in 3rd seem like misdirection effort to allow escape and to erase data tracks of arks.

I think that is actually the point of the ending of this trilogy. The galaxy ultimately failed. You are choosing to die continuing to fight or die by submitting.

Or its just a huge screen translating the picture from the cameras outside

petargrad Yes, I know, I watched the video about the DLC :)... I actually thought it was in the main game! I can't imagine the game without that tipe of "closure" with the other characters...

That scene comes from the extended cut. This is an old, OLD video from before that. You'd only see the original ending if you played during the first few months of release or put in a hardcopy and didn't update it. You're not crazy, that scene just wasn't in the game at release.

You're not alone. I still firmly believe most of this theory, enough to never be comfortable picking any option other than Destroy.

i still believe it, it makes sense and the fans put more work into coming up with this ending then the devs did

I do. I don't believe that it was debunked because of the extended ending DLC. Even if it somehow was, the IT theory is a much better alternative to taking the ending at face value. So I choose it as my canonical ending.

I only first heard about it recently, but I'm loving the idea and thinking the same... it must be true. Fuck the extended cut.

Ok folks! Looks like my faith has rewarded me!! Who’s seen the new mass effect trailer? IT confirmed!! I’ve been calling it for years!!! I always knew the breath scene would bring a sequel! And here we are friends!! Believing for 8 years was worth it! Where are all the IT debunker hiding now? 😂😂😂

Well while first part of video made some sense now it's mostly nitpicking things and making them plausible or even confirmed. For example relays exploding is just probably devs had to hurry possibly having cut content from Arrival and just improved it and used it there. Trees reflection is clearly laziness since ME3 doesn't have dynamic reflections. Writing on walls as well as gun change is clearly an oversight that would make it into game even if they wouldn't rush it. Shepard surviving was most likely easter egg for players who spent enough time in game, not an option for everyone that could break world logic like most easter eggs in games do. And the list goes on and on applying to like 90% of video. Most of the rest doesn't even take into consiederation they didn't made each level chronologically, so they most likely had different plans for different stages of the game simply couldn't change it in time. I do want to believe they will confirm that theory in next ME they just announced, but this part is just not objectively looking at proves from not biased point of view. It's just trying to confirm creator beliefes.

Indoctrination fits if artifact they are building is dud that does nothing for council races, if its bait to waste time and gather all high profile targets in one place, after reapers reasserted control of citadel they should have easy time with clean up and set up once more. As for reaper AI, garbage in, garbage out, we got hal 9000 scenario. Indoctrination fits, because it will help with harvest. Reapers are so beyond council races that ending with survivors is one and its shown in andromeda, run, milky way is toast no matter what.

Yea honestly I prefer to think of my own ending to the Mass Effect Trilogy where Shepard lives and the Reapers are destroyed. As we know, the child at the end is an agent of the reapers or something similar, and he’s really encouraging Shepard to control the Reapers which makes it to me seem as though Shepard either wouldn’t be capable of controlling it in the first place or that he wouldn’t be powerful enough to successfully do it. Also, the whole game they suggest that trying to control the reapers is the bad decision so when they say at the end it would work for Shepard that’s probably not true. As for Synthesis, there have only been two characters in Mass Effect who combine themselves with AI that I can think of. The first was Saren, who is an abomination after his implants and is directly controlled by Sovereign through these implants, so the reapers and all the rest would no doubt control their victims through such implants. The second is David Archer, who spends every day he is combined with AI living in a perpetual state of pain, not exactly an ideal way to live. As for the destroy option destroying all synthetic life, I personally don’t believe it would do that because for one it makes no damn sense. Robots, AI and geth all are powered by electricity ultimately, something that destroys them all would surely destroy all other electronics, but we see the ships retreating after the destroy ending so it clearly didn’t destroy all electronics. Also, there’s no reason in this case that they couldn’t just shoot nukes or something at the reapers to trigger an EMP or do something similar to trigger an EMP. I personally believe, and want to believe, that the destroy ending is more or less a happily ever after ending. I think it was extraordinarily stupid how BioWare chose to do things with the extended cut and maybe it’s denying reality but I don’t care, it is a game after all that isn’t real. Edit: I had the video playing and couldn’t pause it (am on phone) so I didn’t collect my thoughts as coherently as I would have preferred. In essence, the control option would inevitably fail, the synthesis option would make organic life an abomination and likely controlled by their AI counterparts who are far more intelligent, and as a result powerful, than they are. Destroy is the only true win ending in my opinion, extended cut be damned. As for the EMP I’m aware that simply firing nukes won’t do it, as reapers no doubt have extremely high energy consumption, but if very powerful nukes, or other high energy weapons, were created and fired at reapers it would get the job done fine because it would overload them and damage, likely destroy if high enough, them.

This documentary was originally made shortly after the release of ME3. Back before the Citadel DLC when the ending was painfully barebones and incomplete. Fans were desperately trying to hold onto anything that could give meaning to that mess. So yeah, he desperately wanted this theory to be true and the more people believed in it, the less crazy it would all sound and the less it would look like just another fan theory for your personal head-canon.

@@barkasz6066 true, fans when it first came out were really trying to have a dinner with scraps

Yep. I learned about that stuff when I learned about the SR-71 Blackbird when I was a kid. The Airforce came up with an aircraft that was rocket propelled and it could move so fast that the heat gained from the airs friction was what was causing the aircraft to ignite. I believe you have to at least be going Mac 10 at around 80,000 ft to be able to catch on fire and the more you fall the thicker the air gets so the easier it is to create that heat and pressure.

Yeah, most likely if you are in/on a man made structure in space that has gravity it most likely has an atmosphere as well.