Thanks for all the content sharing and the discussion in the Emake3D community, Joel! We really appreciate these! Regarding the questions mentioned in the video, here is what we can tell: 1. Dimensional accuracy can be corrected by software, not to print 25um details, but to print models with a dimensional error of 25 um. 2. Permanent leveling means that the printing platform has been adjusted before leaving the factory, there will be no deviation after adjustment, and there is no need for leveling in the hands of customers. 3. That button below the screen is the pause and stop printing button. Regards
I'm curious if I'll be correct on the resolution thing, but this is purely a guess. I imagine they can move the 80μm in 25μm increments. So while this smallest individual pixel would be 80μm, they could do 105μm cleanly, whereas an 80μm resolution would overshoot it to make 160μm.
All my FDM printers have more resolution than the extrusion width, so it is common to have this. It means it can position the 80um laser spot on 25um boundaries.
As a digital device it needs to have a resolution for controlling the laser "pixels" so that is probably the 25µm. Another question is how small the details are that the printer can actually resolve. Can it make ridges or channels of 25µm width? probably not... probably also depends on the resin and some settings.
I wish I could upload the picture that I made, as it helped me see what was going on... I used Inkscape to draw it out. First, I assumed that the 25 um resolution was the ability of the X lead screw to step in 25 um steps and the mirror to produce 25 um steps for Y (which seems amazing since it is spinning and 25 um at the edges of the build platform is much less rotation than 25 um at the center... anyway). So, in Inkscape I up scaled um to mm and placed vertical lines every 25 mm. Then I started plopping 80 mm circles, centered on those lines. From that, it seems like you don't want a situation where you have a light beam smaller than 80 um. If you did, you wouldn't be producing smooth lines, you would be making scalloped lines. As far as resolution goes... from lithography, resolution is the ability to resolve two separate points as separate points. In this case, with 25 um spacing and an 80 um point, you end up with needing to place the two points 100 um apart with a 20 um gap. Or, if you let them overlap, you could space them 75 um apart and they would just barely touch.
That laser system is straight out of a laser printer. nice idea using what is 40+ year old technology in a new way. I made a laser display using a few of them you can get really nice "flat" beams
Thanks for the review! I know you didn't have much time to get the video out before the kickstarter ends. I am currently backing it primarily because I am in the market for a larger resin printer, and bar any major defects, the early bird pricing is a very good value for what it is. It seems like at this rate though we may not be able to get more information on the larger laser add-on, really wanted to see how it is to change it and whether it speeds things up as advertised.
@3DPrintingNerd While I cannot speak for eMake, I can say that the laser spot is commonly larger than the resolution on SLA printers. That is partially because the center of the spot is more intense than the edges, and the resin is cured by intensity and duration. In other words, a short burst from the laser will not solidify an 80 micro meter spot (The center may solidify but not the edges), but a long duration burst will solidify the whole spot. A medium duration burst may solidify the center and gel the rest of the area in the spot, so that an "anti aliasing" effect is seen.
Wrong. Laser focus point is with same power on the whole focus. I work with lasers for years...and the laser focus point is always square never round. It possible that they can make steps with such small resolutions but its never trully that resolution as they mention.
For the resolution issue, I think they meant that the laser has a positional precision of 25 microns for that 80 micron spot size. This isn't exactly the same as resolution, but I could understand the confusion/terminology change on their part. It is similar to how an FDM printer with a .4mm nozzle can easily achieve tolerances below +-0.1mm because the motion system is able to control the position of that larger "spot" to a higher precision than the nozzle size. This means that the minimum feature thickness on the machine will certainly be that larger 80 micron (larger because you will get small amounts of light bleed with any true laser SLA printer). However for thicker walls where laser passes can slightly overlap, the final part dimensions should be pretty close to that 25micron precision.
2:13 slightly better explanation: it works exactly like the laser setup in a laser printer (even looks just like one). the beam is reflected off of a constantly spinning six-sided mirror to create a repeating scanline along one axis, with the beam being switched on and off to create the print pattern as the printhead moves back and forth across the resin along the other axis.
I wish I could've backed this, but I already ordered a Snapmaker Artisan, and my workshop still doesn't have insulation for sensitive machines like Resin printers. Love that a video is out to see it in action
I agree. It looked like it was just layering at first, but the voxles are massive. I wonder if it has more to do with the resolution of the model? Wicked makes their models at 1/6th scale. So if you bump it up to 1/3rd, it'll lose resolution. But I'm wondering if that's in this machine or the model? Also, what's with the texture? It looks rough, like bumpy? Is that a laser thing? I'm an LDC resin guy, but I have never seen that texture in a resin print.
Agreed. The print quality looked kinda bad I thought. The Elegoo Saturn isn't as big obviously but you don't see layer lines or anything like this has.
The voxel size is purely about how the file is structured. If the file has smaller voxels, they'll be printed as smaller voxels until the printer can no longer resolve the resolution of the their size.
Been wanting to get into resin printing... but I like things big. This might fit the bill. A little pricey though. Going on my list to keep my eyes on.
I like it, and have been tempted to back it….but I just don’t really want to dive into resin printing yet. It requires significantly more space (even for small printers) than FDM simply because of the post processing. Maybe some day.
I think 25 microns is the step resolution (with microstepping I assume) that the leadscrew moving the whole laser assebly (this would be one axis, say the X) and 25 microns is also the resolution/accuracy that the rotating mirror move the laser beam along the other axis (so rotating the mirror by one microstep moves the laser spot on one axis by 25 microns). Laser SLA is great and all, but I think the larger machines will need to come with more laser modules (like the Form 3L that has two) to increase print speed, because MSLA and DLP are exposing/curing the whole layer slice at once and are usually faster than regular SLA (galvos or this new style of one axis mirror).
Interesting, seems when everything is sound mechanically, its always temperature that's the last factor that can cause issues. I heard the same thing can happen on FDM printers when the bed temp fluctuates too much it shrinks and contracts ever so slightly causing z banding, hence the need for PID tuning (fancey algorthims that keep the temperature) vs just turning it on when it goes below a certain temperature or turning it off if it goes above. Although if you do that fast enough it should be the same as PID id imagine, but that would tax most printers CPU too much. There is a mode in the firmware called bang bang mode that keeps the temperature this way controlled by a delay variable of how fast it updates. The default is 10x higher then it should be as someone pointed it out and showed a graph of his bed fluctuating due to the long delay between checks. Which PID solves, but now since we're offloading processing to more powerful cpu's via klipper, or printers themselves comming with more powerful ones, id imagine a bang bang mode checking at a very high rate should be just as accurate if not more as finding integral dervitives and predicting the future with them, which is how PID works if im not mistaken. Anyway this Z banding due to temperature has got me thinking as its even more of a problem on bed slingers for whatever reasons, and its cool they figured this out here.
The mechanism is similar to the first laser printers, down to the polygonal mirror. I reckon layer times should be commensurate to printed pages on a laser printer. Now, a model like the millennial whatever would be what, a few thousand pages (layers) thick? How long it would take for a laser printer to print a thousand pages? Sheesh, it oughta be a while…
they are from I know, the only company that are offering 20K hour large format resin printers, so its a marked they found. Apart form the fact I dont have room for it, one of the other reasons why I never went for the phrozen mega8k was the screen lifespan. I wont be "upgrading" until there is a 4-8k DLP 10inch at the 600 USD price point, but i doubt that will ever happen.
I don't think they are trying to be dishonest about the resolution. I bet they are treating it like a CNC/laser cutter machine, the 25μm is the accuracy of the motors/print head, while the 80μm is the size of the bit/beam. With subtractive manufacturing you can use the outer edge of the laser for cutting, however in additive the center of the laser is used. Since the center of the beam can move at 25μm, the strokes can overlap effectively giving you 25μm XY res.
i'm just glad to see more alternatives to MSLA LCD based printers, this one doesn't seem like it will be particularly affordable though they list an $1550 'early bird'-price on their kickstarter as 40% off, that would put the intended retail price at around $2100, hopefully they'll scale this technology down to a midsize printer at a more attractive price-point
This is where i prefer say the formlabs printers for larger size.. the Slicer “preform” is way more “polished” and with them knowing their resin composition the printers have specific settings. So much less fuss.
Joel, my brother, get thee some eye protection for the isopropyl sprayer! You don't want resin-contaminated alcohol in your eyes, and the specs aren't adequate coverage. On a side note, I'm a little sad that safety glasses aren't called peeper keepers.
I am so glad that I did not back this thing. I was so close to pulling the trigger, but there were too many unknowns for me and emake provided some really sketchy answers online. After seeing the output I am really glad I did not buy one! Thanks for the vid!
Good video of this :Large Resin 3DP...Any comparison with the STARFIELD 3D, Print & Post-curing All-in-One SLA 3D Printer now that it's on Kickstarter?
I liked the review. I don't think I've seen the back where all the supports were. Would have wanted to see how much damage it left, though it's also how one is able to make the supports auto or manually.
@@3DPrintingNerd BTW can you please share what model is that large part washing station? is it safe for flammable liquids? im also doing large prints and washing them is a hazzard! please help!
My interpretation of the resolution quesiton is they can return the 80 micron spot within a 25 microns of the same spot every time but that's just my two cents. Paradigm is your two cents on inflation.
About the Z-thingy and the temperature: is it just because of a resin temperature of 28 degrees or because of the resin heater affecting the z-axis by heating and cooling cycles messing up the build plate positioning or something like that?
Whilst I'm sure no one will be/could be prosecuted for copyright, I'd take a modicum of caution law wise on the off chance!? My only reasoning is that there a potential possibility that thus could be treated like a online ordering business that would breach prior mentioned copyright.
Regarding the resolution... maybe the axis and the motors the printer has allow them to move the laser up to a 25um? also.. it could be that beam itself is a 80um one but the use of convace/convex glassses allow to make the beam thinner (?) or its just a false advertisement
In my more active resin printing months, it's not uncommon for me to go through 10 liters in two weeks doing proofs and such. I've looked at SLA machines in the past, but laser-induced cures don't have the resolution of MSLA even though the light system is more robust overall. The best one I've ever seen claimed to have a 50 micron x-y, and it was right around $20K for an entry level industrial-capable printer. Unless it utilizes a galvo mirror and fiber laser optic system, they're also painfully slow all things considered. While that size build plate sounds great on a spec sheet, there's a lot to consider in being able to have accuracy be reproduced consistently. A print fail is going to hurt a lot more on a big print versus one that has the equivalent print broken down into individualized parts and are keyed for later assembly.
I got mine a while back. Backer 133. It arrived badly damaged. Took forever to get spare parts to fix it myself. Wish I never signed for it. It's all together now, and I have not used it yet. I have to relevel it first because I bought a magnet release plate for it. Have you done anything else with your unit? Any updates from emakes? I'm still waiting on my 10 bottles of their resin to come in.
It looked like it was just layering at first, but the voxles are massive. I wonder if it has more to do with the resolution of the model? What was the max print size of the Falcon, I wonder? Wicked makes their models at 1/6th scale. So if you bump it up to 1/3rd, it'll lose resolution. But I'm wondering if that's in this machine or the model? Also, what's with the texture? It looks rough, like bumpy? Is that a laser thing? I'm an LDC resin guy, but I have never seen that texture in a resin print.
"Slightly uncomfortable" like someone you don't really like sitting down beside you or "slightly uncomfortable" like a doctor snapping his gloves on for an uh examination?
Excellent video Joel, if resin printers get much bigger you're going to need to get some some animal proctology gloves as the bed was very close to your forearm! :)
umm no - Probably cant post a link but the teeth are correct for the head chainsaw just look up any picture. It doesn't have the baby teeth with it but other than that it looks fine to me.
Really not convinced that many models are worth the $100 worth of resin they will cost to print unless they are going corporate displays at shows. Perhaps 1 or 2 per household, as special pieces, but hard to justify the machine cot in that case.
It’s Kickstarter. You may get nothing, you know that. I am disappointed you do not mention anything about this for newbies. I know you may think that everyone knows what Kickstarter is but I got burned and not everyone does. How will you feel if it doesn’t get delivered? There is no guarantees.
@@3DPrintingNerd i'm just used to your 3d printer video when you point out what part of those new printers you dont like.. but this resin printer is so perfect.. anyway how much would retail will go?
@@agasini-euborja They don't have a retail price yet, but once Kickstarter orders are fulfilled, I'm sure they will come out with one. This is a tough one to review, since what I have most likely will be different than what all backers received. I tried to give an overall feeling.
@@3DPrintingNerd Thanks, the Falcon at 7:43, I am not sure but that looks like a Mega 8K or my Phenom L would have done better. PS: Keep up the good work!
@@MrNBridger Thank you! Hmm, I'm definitely going to print it on other machines. I have a Peopoly Forge - I know that isn't the same dimensions, but it should give me a good idea. I don't have a Mega 8k but I bet it would look GREAT on that machine.
@@MrNBridger I agree. It looked like it was just layering at first, but the voxles are massive. I wonder if it has more to do with the resolution of the model? Wicked makes their models at 1/6th scale. So if you bump it up to 1/3rd, it'll lose resolution. But I'm wondering if that's in this machine or the model? Also, what's with the texture? It looks rough, like bumpy? Is that a laser thing? I'm an LDC resin guy, but I have never seen that texture in a resin print.
not a fan of all the lines. looks like a filament print and no good for painting. those defects on intricate models are prohibitive in time and energy to resolve to get a smooth and clean paint job.
