The weird defence of botting is kinda shocking. "Just hide the bots so players don't get mad" and "They aren't stopping you from playing the game, what's the issue?" This feels like an accurate read of Jagex's current stance on botting, which is pretty depressing.
@kevinstephens4035 There would be ALOT less players in the game and common materials would be alot more expensive. Shoot, with how advanced bots are now everything would go up in price lol
it actually is quite in character with Mat K IMO. Things like gold farming to feed your family or pay for college are some things he'd get behind, although he may still have had to unleash the ban. He has stories related to it and I dont wanna speak for him lol he just has a very human perspective.
everything would go up in price, but that only effects mains, and honestly... hardly.. since those increased prices often come as drops too. Some weird thing like Sanfews would probably go up to 100+k each... but then that'd be a 700k drop at PNM which makes that boss pretty good alone lol@@deputyswine Im not on a game econ so IDK for sure lol its just hard to say if prices going up is inherently bad as well
Phenomenal cast so far, at about the halfway point. The early segment about the history of OSRS was documentary quality. Really interesting stuff as someone who has played Osrs since launch and is still jaded about rs2 being ruined by EoC and MTX. I hope Mat's concept of Sailing is similar to what the team is currently thinking, I voted yes to the original "paint" sailing poll, also was several of the votes to bringing back OSRS, also one of the no voters to moving camera with middle mouse button (haven't used arrow keys to move camera in years btw).
Much appreciation for your content, one of the types of sociality is to show external presence also with gestures to see the whole personality, I have been fishing for too long ❣
@@andrewv2782 I believe Mat is responsible for the Corporeal beast AFK feature that Mod reach was fired for and that reach agreed to take the hit to preserve Mat's standing within the company and also so that Mat could ensure none of the other exploits were ever found.
I loved every minute of this podcast, but, maaan i really disagree with Mat's takes on rulebreaking. Endorsing botting and real world trading is unfathomable to me, and he says "does it affect you in any way?" i mean, yeah it does, pretty hugely and in a number of ways, and I could feel Sae trying to think of what to say to counter this but he couldn't think of anything, so he didn't do a great job of arguing against it unfortunately, but I could feel that instinctively he wanted to say "woah hold up" and counter argue. But even that aside, it's just crazy to me to hear someone say "hey why not just make real-world trading and botting legal" Other than the two moments about rwt/botting, this podcast was pure gold.
I completely agree that it’s headed in a good direction but not the best. We need more innovation. Thats how the game has gotten to the point it is now. We need the next level up.
I know my comment is late to the game, but I think the reason the bot problem is starting to affect players more is that they have moved on from just doing the mundane tasks to doing high level bosses and full blown raids. So now regular players can't make enough money doing bossing to afford that high level gear because only the top level content is good enough gp/hr now.
If there are lot of bots doing endgame content, that should mean high level gear prices going down since more of them will be entering the economy. I don't know where you got the idea that "only the top level content is good enough gp/hr" you can earn gp in this game in many ways and you definitely don't need BIS to do the most difficult PvM content, should you find the need to do them
Banning bots is the only way Skilling will ever be able to compete with PVM in gp/hr. I think there's a lot of people who enjoy that play style as well.
Man i met mat k in new york in a program i was invited to by jagex and i regret not speaking my mind then because i would of been herd knowing my ideas for osrs is revolutionary
Hearing him discuss Botting so causally, dismissing it. is just pissing me off. They really don't give a F about the state of the game. At the end of the day bots give them revenue, then why should I pay them for bonds way cheaper to buy gold. They make money I'll save it.
You will get minimal "quitters" and max longevity in OSRS lifespan if JAGEX ignores secondary prices and bans more bots. Is secondary prices really the excuse for allowing bots to be out of control like they have been? Or is it because these accounts are buying bonds? Regardless, All these bots all over the place make people question, including myself, "What am I doing with my life". Far more then any increase in secondary prices. I believe creating more value in secondaries will increase appreciation and membership renewal throughout the game. People who want to sit around, raid/pvm all day and complain about secondary prices are quitters anyway. Secondary prices don't make people quit. Bots do I believe. @1:01 I get it, a father of 7 kids doesnt want to be picking flax. However, Ironman is easier to play then ever and already feels like cheating. (catalyic updates, etc). In essence, Jagex catering to bots will kill the game. Like they have been doing. I will quit this game if it keeps turning into a bot fest to cater to mains. I never felt more confident in the game then when I saw the bot busting stream many years ago. It gave value to my login time. Let me know what you think!!
It's because of bonds/membership. Arguing that bots should stay because of resource prices is ridiculous argument, and not really something anyone who cares about the current state of the game & longevity of it would even consider
I have seen bot farms at literally every profitable activity or one which is required for unlocking a profitable activity every day since I can remember. I’m so tired of competing with bots as a real player. They’re even at the GE in every world all day long every day. If it’s not willful ignorance, then what is it?
What you mean turn off my chat filter and they're gone? I like to meet up with people at the GE also meet new people anywhere. Also individuals botting arent the problem for me is bot farms. IE steven bots
I agree that no one wants to do the low level content but I'd imagine the prices would raise to the point people will do it for the GP. What botting effects me is the fucking spam I would like to log in and be able to read chat no matter where I'm at
Jagex messed around and found out. The lawsuit threat to Adam is the single most important reason for the amount of bots today. I love OSRS, but I hate rich corporate scummy behavior more than that love. Deserved.
Jagex NEEDS to improve the questions they ask within the poll system. They are TERRIBLE questions 90% of the time. It's more then out of touch, it's propogated bologna.
has he ever thought off how dead the game feels with all these bots? i played in 04/05 and till 07 the game was a world where allot of interaction happend.
People dont remember what happened to skilling in rs3 after bot nuke. Pvm and skilling equalized to a point that people got miserable that it took 30 hours no matter what to get anywhere. The people that liked pvm couldnt stand that sharks were so expensive, the people skilling were happy till it still took hundreds of hours for that awesome pvm gear and then it wasnt absolute bank like it used to be because supplies eat into profit so much. Bots are a necessity for pvming community at this point. Ironmen are the people that can tolerate all the skilling to pvm without quitting.
No they are not, jagex can just generate items and sell them for exactly the same price bots do now. *BUT* and here is the big but, that would not give them money as the bots do pay for membership every 14/30 days again. The bot nuke didn't take longer than a day and the next day jagex allowed all banned bots back in. Any market needs time to readjust and I bet all my money on it if they waited for a week or longer people woulda be doing the boring things to earn cash ingame. You think they like doing the same boss 300 times only to get 1 item if they lucky, it is exactly the same mindless flax picking but then in another shape.
I've had multiple accounts banned over the years for just sitting there clicking teleport for hours on end, and no way to even appeal them due to the shit support system jagex has. Meanwhile i know people who have botted max mains to 200m stats and never even had a single warning. The games been in a shit state for years, and i doubt ill ever play it again unless something drastic changes.
This is how i've felt for years. Mat K isn't anything special either he just wanted out of his RS3 duties for something new dudes not amazing or a god and savior just because he was a community manager..
People who want to throw 20 pounds at a set of black Graceful need to also ask themselves if they'd rather be able to earn it in game... because agreeing to pay 20 pounds for a set of black Graceful is how you quickly become unable to get it in game, or any other cool cosmetics after that. In the context of "the game is dying, you either need to pay more per month or accept mtx" it's a different discussion, but you should also be mindful of what a company tells you.
The sheer chad energy radiating off Mat "Eat it from the back" K for nearly 3 hours straight And you just know he's just duo logging inferno runs in the background
His argument about botting is a little scuffed. Item prices sort themselves out over time as people would fill the void. Shitty early game content is shitty content. So dumb.
Even after all these years I still think Mat K is one of the best things to ever happen to Runescape. But at the same time, anyone who has tried pvming in the wilderness can tell you botting is a huge problem.
Agree. Guy is a legend and deserves respect. Also agree with you that bots are a problem and I want to add it's not just in wilderness. Game functions with them but how can you say they're truly needed when we've never had a completely bot free game. People can adapt to higher prices. I think removing bots is exactly not being afraid of trying out things which I think is a very good mindset with everything.
He is the reason why botting is such a problem and why osrs is in the place it is right now, a broken mess. Nobody else than the teamleader should and could take responsibilty for that, that he never did. Actually it is just a grown up baby in a leader roll, no wonder he got fired and I would love to know the real reason why.
Ult Iron is definitely the hardest game mode. The amount of dedication it takes. The sheer amount of GP$ you watch disappear on the ground is wild@@kmdoqjw1234
Absolutely disagree with Mat K's take on bots impacting the economy. I think if all bots were removed entirely, people being able to "pick flax" to make money is positive for the game.
Remember the days we would mine iron for days... Then be sitting in varrock trying to sell it for the best price for hours. (pure essence, runes, raw fish, everything would have value) Damn good old days
@@Gobble-mike-hawk So you wanna say motherlode mine is fun? or any other activity that gets you mining exp? no, they are not but if it could earn you enough to buy your next bond, everyone will be doing it. Bots have always existed but nowadays they got unlimited bots just on hired servers, back in the day they wer limited by the number of computers they could fit in a room so compared to today we had way less... What are you doing right now to get a bond? a boring grinding activity, no matter how much gp it gets you per hour, if you would get 10m a hour for picking flax you would also pick flax or mine iron in varrock. (And no flax would never get you 10m a hour but it is an example, the real form would come down to the same point. Why a bond is 10m today is because of bots. The more money you put into a system the less money is worth or in other words *inflation*) It is the design of a game to get you hooked and playing as long as possible, osrs had that all in place but nowadays we are playing rehashed, reskinned versions of rs3 with pay to win in place but just hidden behind a blanket
It's hard to tell who is actually quitting from the bots, I'm sure most don't even announce they are leaving. I played some leagues but haven't even been logging into my Iron lately. Been playing WoW since SoD came out. Bots be an issue in that game too but I can at least see them ban sometimes with the /who function. Kind of gave up after 6 months of reporting 200m theivers and them still being around. Ah yea and the boosting discord.
I have a nearly maxed UIM I've been chipping away at for 8 years that's not impacted by the main economy and even I am finding the game is beginning to disgust me. When the economy changes the way players behave changes and simply teleporting to the G.E to get around the map exposes me to a full chat box of RWT services so morbid I immediately start thinking about other games. Currently the only thing I've logged in for in the past month was to test Scurrius on my Varrock Sewers meme UIM and even though it is the most exciting update to ever happen for me as it relates to any of my accounts after a handful of kills I was like "This loot is too good, this exp is too good, it feels like I'm cheating, this boss is really fucken bad for the game" For so many years I've been telling myself "just put in a session here or there and you'll be proud to max an ultimate" Now I'm not even sure if I can continue to be a proud runescape player. And that is no joke, I had to fight against a lot of IRL social judgement in 2013-2014 for admitting that I enjoyed the game. I am autistic and a functional runescape addict so when people like myself are going "ayo, what's the fucken point anymore?" I'd say things aren't in great shape.
@@Jasmine69420 lol not really. Autistic addicts always yell and scream the loudest about everything bothering them, while us casual andys are having a blast and growing in numbers. Sorry but thats the real truth and the numbers support it. Seen about 15 of your replies in this thread. I get your points but really, your clearly just burnt out and unhappy with the direction on some changes, whereas most are not. The silent majority is a real thing. 8+ year addicts are really at the bottom of the list for what jagex cares about. And you said it yourself, possibly in one of your other 15 comments. Everything you do ingame is barely affected by bots as an uim, and you're still making quitting threats about the issue. Bots suck and i dont necessarily agree with the points made in the interview, but i dont think jagex will ever be able to please the top 0.1%, nor should they in my opinion.
I'm 50 mins into this amazing podcast and Matt K has to be up there as of the best guests on this podcast you've had. The conversation flowed so naturally, we could tell that you were genuinely happy to have Matt K on the show. Such a great episode and a great way to kick off 2024 Sae Bae. Grats :)
Awful take on botting from Mat, but adds up. Also his statement about how shift click dropping being added was a turning point for the worst part of the game makes no sense since it was a response THEY came up with to banning all forms of ahk. Probably also a response to mobile, but regardless it didn't need to be polled if it was that game breaking lol. The rest of the cast was 👌
Before anyone pops into my notifs about ahk being bad, I just want to say that banning it would be the equivalent of banning all third party clients because some third party clents are bad even though runelite is fine (relatively). Most players used it to mimic WMK and it added way more skill to skilling before dog water shift click dropping was added.
Meanwhile I'm trying to get a skull piece and kill flesh crawlers on the 2nd level of stronghold, and there's 4 bots in each world just farming combat and herbs.
I believe Mat is responsible for the Corporeal beast AFK feature that Mod reach was fired for and that reach agreed to take the hit to preserve Mat's standing within the company and also so that Mat could ensure none of the other exploits were ever found.
"Bots aren't inherently bad". Well yes, makes the game easier to sell when you have inflated player counts. Also helps the JMODs when RWT clans are bribing them lol
I never liked the idea of sailing as a skill. I dont mind it being in the game and I think it fits nicely. But sailing could be more like a mini game with everything Matt K said. (Pirates, hiring sailors, looting, fighting, fishing, etc) I mean its a mode of transportation. Wouldn't it be dumb if walking, running, swimming, ballooning, or anything else like this was a skill? It should just naturally be in the game like it already is but instead of making it just a cut scene of a map. Let us actually sail the boat to our destination and do activities on the boat. Like fishing off the boat or diving for treasure, explore new lands, thieving, etc. It doesn't need to be a skill. It should be a vessel for other skills. There are countless other ideas for skills and this is the one the community wants as a skill? Like I said, I think it should be in the game 100% but not as a skill.
WIsh we got a bit more info on internal drama with Reach. But thank you for the incredible cast. Loved every minute. Incredible insight from the RuneDaddy himself.
I think the fact that almost any dedicated multi-account player that treats OSRS as a continuum game rather than sticking to a single account as a proving grounds to either themselves or the community tends to have an ironman account shows that most players who take Runescape seriously do not take the ingame economy seriously. And a lot of the people who do take it seriously wind up grinding something they don't enjoy purely for GP before burning out for a few months to years at a time. As much as I dislike Gnomemonkey for his abuse of access to people that can build custom runelite plugins for him due to his notoriety (where as other players have to either learn Java and build their own or wait for someone to make a tool they can adopt) that he was correct in saying that we veteran players that have been here since at least the first 1-2 years of RS2 have been systematically gaslit by Reddit users, market manipulators and newer generations of players and typecast as so autistic that we're basically incapable of having an adult psychology prescribed to us when they themselves have the least interest in talking about or analyzing the game. More often than not OSRS is dictated by popular opinion and people like Mat behave in a populist manner to cater to that. I believe in my heart of hearts that Mat is the true mind behind the Corporeal beast AFK "bug" and that Mod reach simply took the fall because he was complicit and held a lower stature within the company so he'd have to take the heat while Mat made sure none of the other manipulative "bugs" were never found.
Re: Allowing RWT, Diablo 3 had this on release with a real money auction house and it was terrible for the game. Everything was bottled to shit and nothing was worth anything from what I remember
I believe Mat is responsible for the Corporeal beast AFK feature that Mod reach was fired for and that reach agreed to take the hit to preserve Mat's standing within the company and also so that Mat could ensure none of the other exploits were ever found.
Great podcast! It's so interesting to hear the kind of input Mat K brought to the oldschool team. I really hope his idea of renting out private servers becomes a thing because I can see that being a massive success not only for Jagex but for every layer of the community. I can already see RU-vidrs like Settled make a new snowflake account and then have his own private server that you can play on that has the rules of his account built in so you can play along with him under the same restrictions. It would truly make this game have unlimited potential
Bot Worlds - Had totally forgot about these before they were mentioned, omg lmao, I once got moved to one while I was chopping yews by the flax field in Catherby, remember pm'ing my friend and freaking out like "wtf I didn't hop here"
Whenever I was moved during a long session I would type in all chat to a theoretical Jmod as I wasn't sure how automated it was. I'd say things like "Hope you're having a nice day in the office, I'll go back to my chosen world now thanks", "I'm not a bot I'm just unemployed" & "Hi there..... Yes I know you are watching" I've had qutie a few years to mull over how the system may have functioned and I'm pretty confident none of it was ever observed but no regrets, it's usually a pretty good idea to spark consciousness wherever you don't get un-alived imprisoned for it.
If there were no bots, I'd feel encouraged about the drops that I earn myself since they would be worth more. When I see I level 95 with full max set,.it's just another normal mid-level player. Were living in the future
Those of us who saw this coming realized early that G.E was going to kill the legitimacy of the economy & supported ironman mode was the only way you could have your achievements acknowledged and respected by other players who weren't already your friends.
Love these but you always ask the same peoples questions no hate btw just wish youd ask more randoms questions seems to he the same 4/5 people always first then anyone else
I wonder about bots... They could effect us and even the irons of us. But it partly depends on Jagex ban waves and how they break bots. LMS bots used to be able to beat oda but now they sit there like a deer in headlights, so it helps us even though it removes the flare of winning a bit. If wildy boss bots anti-pk'd, a good amount of ppl would die to it lol but they just tele so its not too much of a headache finding a world. If there were MORE of specific bots, it'd be very antagonizing to players, such as MORE solo wt bots lol not enough for me to quit over lol i'm too addicted xd lovin the pod so far! always a good listen when Mat K is involved!
I've clocked in thousands of LMS games and seen many iterations of bots. I must say there's really no winning here, the old terminator bots put up a fight but many of them could just be exploited by 1-ticking, the afk bots felt like I was doing pvm. And you're right, winning when you'd see first actual player(who would likely be garbage, because bots allowed bad players to cruise to the end) in the semifinals did feel pretty mediocre
Dealing with Apple can be annoying. They just decline your App without telling what’s wrong with it. So you end up having to try over and over again. Well wait till you get hacked on RS my friend.. 😅
The osrs community really doesn't understand the work from mods; Ash, Mat K, Reach(Yes reach he was a great jmod for 99% of his time in jagex and an excellent QA). It's great how caring they were and how much unpaid work they actually put into the game, you simply do not get the level of social interaction the original jmods from other MMO devs. Couldn't have asked for a better team to start osrs off and guide the game to the growth it has now.
i spent 2 decades putting money into my accounts to make them as good as possible, and now i'm playing a f2p ironman and i feel so much at peace. this game is incredible.
Bots arent bad? Bots uphold the economy, the game is dead without bots. I think that is why he states they arent bad. How the fuck are they not bad? Cant trust Mod Mat K after stating "bots aren't that bad".
Crazy how he talks about bots not being banned yet friend has a maxed rs3 acc and a decent osrs acc and stopped paying for a few weeks came back to his account locked for suspicious activity and was perm banned for botting appeal denied smh
currently grinding revs on iron and the amount of hopping to find a world is so frustrating, and then once your'e set up you better click the rev the first tick it spawns or a bot will steal it. great cast otherwise, very insightful.
how can you say that bots are not a problem, when more than half of the active players are bots? If you stand in ge for a hour you can easly report 100 deferent names thats all are revenant bots. +you have lots of bots on wildy bosses banking in ge.
Story time with Mat K always a good time. The 50 vs 1 Pk story was hilarious. Just drop the "let the bodies hit floor" RSMV cut and its a wrap. Reminds me of old Maplestory Pre Big Bang times when the Moderators would spawn King Balrog and Zakum on the afk people causing havoc ! Would love to see that now a day. Equivalent of a raid boss being summoned in the Grand Exchange haha wouldn't that be fun xD
Loved, loved, loved this one. Mat K is the sweetest guy. We were lucky to have him in Jagex for as long as he was, and it's super cool he still is engaged in the game.
It is now more than clear that Jagex has had cancers from the start. There are 2 RuneScapes, the game and the project. The game died with Gower and the project lives to be an outlet for pseudo-developers' egos. Mat would hear that some new technology has taken off within the tech world and think of ways to apply it to OSRS. He would want it to be a career opportunity for people to play the game and sell gold for dollars. He would have it be a centre for online culture, a la reddit/twitch. Clear project goals. I just wanted a game, glad i quit years ago. I hope Mat keeps failing upwards in his ventures in this backwards genre of entertainment.
You can tell Mat K really loves the game, and really loved working on it. He just didn't want to deal with Jagex's higher-ups and shareholders anymore. Which seems to apply to a lot of ex-Jmods.
I would like to see the actual $ amount Jagex pays its employees/cost to run the business vs the $ they make because they are billion dollar company. It looks like to me they aren't even reinvesting but a lousy million to a few million dollars into the game if that. they make 100m a year and you mean to tell me they cant give us better content and upgrade the game onto a new engine/modern technology? So we can have new capabilities/mechanics and so much more to improve the game to attract young new players. As well as reward us players who spend lots of money with jagex. if they dont the game is going to slowly keep dying because no younger new players want to play this ugly outdated looking clunky game when compared to the newer games that are out. OSRS is my fav game but man we need more then a update, we need a entire over haul of the game top to bottom from its base code/engine etc, they could make these big changes while keeping the game old school and graphics looking old school but with a modern touch you know what i mean. and no im not talking RS3 thats not even the same game at all.
makes me sad this game could be amazing and it is amazing but it could truly compete with modern video games and have millions of new players switch over and start streaming and having serious competitions if they would rebuild it or a new version of it to go beside it that were interlinked even. I think many top pro gamers would come back to osrs if they did that. theres so much new tech in gaming its a shame we are stuck with only osrs or rs3 which imo is not the same game. we need a new option i hope they do it@@tappajaav
I love mat k always loved his stories he tells on stream as well, he knows all the secret stuff and is happy to spread it. We get some real information here.
Jagex is such a joke but the game will never die because of all these addicts. They constantly implement trash updates and bot farm content like zombie pirates but yall just suck it up. sad scam game.
honestly the main place where jagex really should work on bot detection and banning are where it inhibits the player experience, or where it "cheapens" an achievement, such as inferno. for player experience things like mining bots, both members and free to play. one place especially the runite rocks in the mining guild. every regular world your're competing with bots. and every total level world you're competing with well other people for a handful of worlds. if anything having more total lvl worlds would likely make the impact of bots seem a lot less severe
What jagex employees always forget to mention is how huge runelite coming was, i could not see myself playing without runelite and the succes runelite has brought to jagex is never mentioned.
The best risk-adverse thing Jagex could do in January 2024 IMO is following their own rules! No tolerance for bots. Instead they advertise no account sharing with the new launcher. They are missing the point. I will not play this game much longer if it has no integrity.
The reason as far as i know why RWT is illegal is because of gambling laws in the UK. The moment they make it legal to do RWT and there are forms of gambling in runescape, jagex would need to change osrs and runescape to where they adhere to all the gambling laws, like all players need to make an account using there real life ID and so on. Also different tax laws because osrs basicly becomes by law a gambling site and not a game site. That is the main reason as far as i know why they dont allow RWT. It would destroy the game.
ban bots, match runelite with c++, then add content around low level skilling, bosses that drop supplies and mats, etc, and new items and pets to collect.
I dont Bot Or RWT. But I don''t Care About it really i use runelite plugin for quest? most of us do. thats basically cheating right there so I cant be a hypocrit
