Matt Dillahunty: The Superiority of Secular Morality 

When I was in university I would arrive to class early. and I would often add ridiculous shit to the black board to see if the prof would notice. my favourite was a graph that shows the increase in 'ennui'' over time.

Yeh, Google'Billy Connolly: Scrotum!

EDUCATIONballsacks

Yes, there are religions that at least marginally have a better value system, morality, and reflection of reality than most others.

MrStripeyDog He wasn't doing what was right because he was mentally disturbed, and if you did criticize him he probably have you killed as well. Hitler's generals knew he was a lunatic and wasn't doing right but wouldn't criticize for fear of their lives. Joseph Smith thought he doing right through his faith and no one would dare tell him he as doing wrong because of their faith, and he killed them all.

MrStripeyDog The Internet, where religions come to die, QUICKLY

Oh dear, I'm guilty by association! I guess I have a sincere belief in god now... How do I know if it's working?

MrStripeyDog FAITH A definition Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen Hebrews 11:1 Faith can be used to justify anything Appeals to faith are an admission of failure. Faith is the excuse people give when they believe something and don't have good have a good reason to believe.

MrStripeyDog Wrong. That's why theists use faith instead of facts to say gods do exist. You have no facts,Present some?, and quotes from some fairy book don't count.

Lies

You don't need to say "Because this God said so." the teachings could have Still come from a God or Goddess or Thing. Buddhism is still a religion to another Realm.

Neanderthal is a good moniker for you. Aren't you embarrassed at displaying your stupidity in public?

I am, but that doesn't change my intelligence.

+Brennon Dan Actually he was technically a agnostic apatheist. Also his name was Siddhartha Gautama, Buddha was a title given to him and several other people in religious Buddhist tradition.

@@thegreatprophesizedantichr3762 actually, budhdhism was one of the few Faiths in India that didn't recognize soul and didn't care about god at all.. it also threw out our old Vedic Varna system and rituals.. The whole focus was on suffering in this world and the cause for it to be desire...

Ygor Nimoy you actually have a point. I was diest liberal Catholic before becoming a Traditonal Catholic that believed in secular morality. However I was a believer in a God but I very much believe it's very possible to be a moral person without a belief in God.

Yes, but, humans do this to justify their actions with and without god.

+Jim Mears (Funniest Videos) That would never be a problem with the liars and thieves of evangelism

Listen with headphones and only use the left one

According to his bestselling memoir, God didn't always object to it.

No actually pretty ignorant. Religion ultimately rests on faith which is obviously not certainty. If you think a human jelly bean who spouts polemics at a bunch of uneducated teenagers is brilliant... then you're probably an uneducated teenager.

​@@matthiasmuller7677 I could also be a 45-year-old autodidact with a college diploma and an IQ of 143! I'm glad _you_ can tell the difference between faith and certainty. However, there are literally billions of people in the world who use the words, "Know," and, "Believe," interchangeably and consider the religious beliefs with which they have been indoctrinated since earliest youth to be absolute fact! They're not _actually_ certain, but they are so confident in their beliefs that no amount of reason or evidence will ever change their minds. That is the, "...illusion of certainty," to which Matt refers. Religion allows people to _think_ they understand _everything,_ while _actually_ understanding _nothing._ As for, "...the comfort of simplicity," God is a "one size fits all" answer to every question anyone might ever _have_ but be too lazy to actually _study._ I suppose, in that sense, one man's Epistemology _is_ another man's Polemics; after all, when one's position can't stand up to rational scrutiny, having someone _say so_ probably feels like an attack. Speaking of attacks, kudos on presenting two Ad Hominem (Personal Attack) logical fallacies in a single sentence; it really drives home the evidentiary and logical strength of your position.

@@OmniphonProductions Every religion that I'm aware of explicitly states that faith is the ground it ultimately rests on. Who cares if some individuals don't correctly apply that? To conflate a religion with the behavior of its followers (who's thoughts you seem to know better then they do) is probably at least one fancy sounding fallacy. Btw your IQ means nothing, it's just processing speed. These are not complicated topics. If you're an outlier like that chances are that you're actually a little on the autitstic side and unable to see connections, only particulars. No offense, this is what RU-vid comments are about 😉

@@OmniphonProductions and what you quote about simplicity sounds very rational. The only thing that's irrational is that you again mix in psychological speculations for why someone might adhere to that. I could do exactly the same in the opposite way. Assuming that there is no final ground which all reality rests on but instead everything being just chaos and coincidence offers plenty of benefit for someone to BELIEVE in because it frees you from all purpose.

@@OmniphonProductions and concerning the polemics. I listened to half the video. All I heard was shallow boring unsubstantiated nonsense. Empty words towards an audience of giggling 18 year old girls. Them and Dillhaunty should instead have discussed the thing they have in common: daddy issues! 😄 Theres another ad hominem for you (ad fatfuck rather)

Why not?

Because someone write it

due to particles of dinosouaur fossils being on a dark surface from which light bounces off of which is interpreted by you brain as seen from your eyes

You're wrong about me being wrong. I did not say all theists.

finalfantasy8911 That's called a contradiction.

finalfantasy8911 I think you're a little fuzzy on what fits the definition of a contradiction. Also, I did not say "all theists". You misread my comment.

+Eru Illuvatar Actually, I was an atheist a great deal of my life. I could spout out nonsense like this guy all day, as well or better than he can. Only when I accept Jesus in my own life, did I realize the true depth of ignorance secular perception has. It's easy to understand Godlessness. It exists all around us. The reason atheism is gaining such a wide following is that earth belongs to Satan. Temptation is always available. Humans have the audacity to believe that they are superior to God, and therefore ignore his rules, break his laws and allow sin into their lives, willingly ignorant, gratefully serving the Master of Lies. We are God's children. He has instructed us, and it's up to us to decide through free will which path we follow. The question is, will we sing like the children of Eru, creating harmony, or be prideful like Melkor and create rancor in the world? John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

legunncat I read a lot of emotional dribble and Bible preaching in your reply. I am sorry that you've been brainwashed and that your emotions have usurped your rational thought process. Ask yourself honestly, do you think it more likely that your one religion is true and all others are false, or that you've bought in to the religion that your culture has adopted? You are still an atheist my friend. You are an atheist regarding all other religions. I truly hope that you open your mind and realize that _every_ religion is illogical, not just your own.

luke hp but actually Catholicism is the Religion for the intellectual

Gingerella Cookie sure it is. 😂😂

@@gingerellacookie5641 particularly if you're a priest who likes little boys. A great place to "work" so they'll shuffle you around if you get caught.

@@gingerellacookie5641 There is no such thing as ANY religion for an intellectual. An intellectual thinks for themselves, instead of putting their faith in some book.

Atheists say slavery is morally right all the time. They support the prison system.

@@CarnevalOne And Christians don’t? Seems to me a crap ton of Christians think the prison system is fabulous & keeps criminals off the streets. I do think prison systems shouldn’t be privatized to prevent exploiting prisoners for money. But the question is would you rather lock them up, kill them, or let them roam the streets? You got 3 options.

@@CarnevalOne Nah, only christians try to defend slavery (holding another human being as property) all the time. For some reason they prefer to sacrifice their own morality than accept their favorite book is not infallible. The prison system is shit, and should be reformed, regardless if a god exist or not. BTW, nice stramanned tu quoque, if only you wouldnt feel so much shame of your own magical fairy.

+Mr. Mammal. things can only reasonably considered right or wrong by people because we are the only beings who have the mental capacity to understand the difference. that is what seperates us from animals and not a sole. we choose to coexist with each other in a way that is best for the majority of people.

***** Yes, you are correct, the road analogy does not address the immorality of TARM (Theft Assault Rape Murder). These can be addressed on a physical basis. Like the road analogy, each individual is like a car, we have a physical body and brain. Each of us maintains certain attitudes about "our bodies." We imagine property rights, ownership over our own body, our domain. Each physical individual will object to certain treatments of their body or property. So from this physical beginning, we can see an inherent preference for these cognitive individuals to DEMAND CONSENT upon acting on other bodies; a precedent or principal is set by the physical observed world - And a contradiction arises when one individual tries to defy this consent principle, the rapist convicts himself, when another watching individual seeks to physically stop the rapist or achieve vengeance for a rape, the rapist can only present the principal that "bro you can't harm me, I don't consent."

Hey shit for brains. Try driving on the right hand side of the road in England.

***** Touche. Takes a genius to come up with. Socrates would be proud.

capoman1 I didn't read your whole comment. I didn't realize we agree.

True! Except me - I'm an utter bastard. All best

Emm, to begin with not having the trouble to defend slavery because your belief endorses it yeah we have our mind in the right place. But lets be honest, why would anyone in the XXI century believe in religious ideology? Religions are literally debunked and additionally wanting them to be true is something that makes you inhuman and an immoral person. As simple as it sounds.

For all of you that believe in subjective morality, I’m curious of your opinion on this. According to subjective morality, If someone believes something is morally right or wrong for them, it is subjectively right or wrong for them. Following that logic, someone could believe racism is right one minute, but then 5 minutes later believe it is wrong and that would be true for them. And they could change their mind endlessly but it would be true for them.

@@lovespeaks777 Morality is subjective, always, it requires living and thinking agents to feel and understand, there is no solid and ultimate "morality" EVEN if there were a god (time theists understand that and stop acting like retards) because it still depends on minds, but by acknowledging this we can make objective and firm conclusions about well-being and so on so we can live in society (example: what is wrong with killing me?: not only that it will stop my well being BUT also if you tried to kill me I would do my best to kill you first because you demonstrated your intentions against my being, so theists tend to ask that, why is it wrong to kill and I bring it back to you: if you try to kill me I will kill you first in self defense, so what is wrong with killing me? If you try, you are one who will discover the true meaning of good and bad). I'm curious about you people who belief god is morality, I'm curious how you sleep at night believing your "god" >>(all we know about it is your fairy tale book called the bible)

The idea that no one tells you to be good and you simply choose to be is one of the most powerful states of mind.

It's difficult to state exactly how much religion had a part in putting a blockage towards black civil rights. There it's a bit more subtle than some law that blatantly states that Yahweh or Jesus favor white power. It seems to be affiliated at least in part, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. I also don't blame religion so much as the root for things like sexism, homophobia, racism, misogyny, xenophobia. Humans seem to segregate themselves into _"us vs. them"_ kind of groups repeatedly throughout history regardless of religious affiliation. The biggest problem to me of religion is that it can cement those kinds of hostile forces into stone. When people start getting it into their heads that their oppressive beliefs are divinely given to them by God, and that they're going to be rewarded for any hostile actions through a divine I.O.U. afterlife insurance policy, it's so hard to make progress, so difficult to get a consensus. It becomes so difficult to change people's minds even if you bury them in a mountain of truth contradicting their beliefs. Blatant examples in the U.S. are like fights to keep "Intelligent Design" pseudo-science out of scientific classrooms which unfortunately had to be a fight because of religious forces. Another is like same-sex marriage being such a massive issue and again, largely due to religious opposition from Christians who can't reconcile the notion that homosexuality is not a deliberate choice (that would mess up their idea of free will and deliberate acts of sin). The other big problem to me for religion is that even in a secular nation, like France, people can believe they are above man's laws and only need to obey what they personally interpret to be God's. Again this afterlife insurance policy makes people think this life on earth is just a brief test, and if they believe that strongly enough, they'll see their sole accountability to God. So then we see religious extremists who ignore the secular laws in favor of killing what they perceive to be a blasphemer -- vigilantes so thoroughly convinced they are delivering their God's justice with a fantastic reward awaiting them after they die for their actions. So religion tends to give men a set of divine laws (sometimes just laws they personally make up after finding a little justification for in some ancient scripture) that override the secular laws.

finalfantasy8911 people of faith have helped the world in the name of their faith more that atheist have helped the world in the name of atheism.

finalfantasy8911 it's called satire.

If your morality is self-interest then it isn't morality.

@@avivastudios2311They don’t understand that oughts can’t be made using subjective consensus or preference. Secular morality 30 years from now won’t be what it is today because it is completely fluid.

Your idea of a good person is derived from Christian religion.

@@keithhunt5328 No, it's not.

I do. Do you know what morality is? Why it makes a society better? A better morality is the key to a society where people are happier and less misstreated than in a society where people get harrased for their sexual orientation, religious background, etnicity, etc. If people had better morals the world would be a far better place than it is today. But some people are stuck at "I'm going to have this morality because it says so in my book", not because they have actually thought about their actions and cared about other people. Morality out of empathy is better than morality out of religion.

Morality is a set of rules we make for ourselves in order to benefit us as a group. Better morality = more beneficial to all of us. What do you think it is? What God thinks of our sins? (I actually got that reply recently)

I never said that. I said morals are rules we make for ourselves, I probably should have expanded it to "morals are rules we make for ourselves based on our decisions". But they're not only individual choices, something that is concidered moral in one society isn't moral in another. You are affected by your surroundings. And by rule I mean for instance "I don't steal". Which is based on what I've been taught growing up mixed with the fact that I can imagine how it would hurt the person I'm stealing from, so I choose not to do it.

What do you think morality is then?

MrStripeyDog I think I remember seing your name in another thread and people said you were a troll. Seems about right. Your life must be really sad. You don't even have anything original to say anymore. I'll be happy to argue with you if you actually made any points of your own but since all you can really say seems to be "you're stupid and wrong" without making any counterclaims it's really just a waste of my time.

The simplicity of "religious morality" seems to be the sticking point for a lot of theists. They enjoy the black and white, absolute code.

Bible Belt Atheist no 50 shades of grey in theism

Eleanor Fitz It kinda reminds of a situation where you shoot the hostage to get at the bad guy seems immoral but done right can have the desired outcome (hostage injured and bad guy dead or detained , but as Matt Dilahaunty has pointed out in his talks is that he doesnt know who might be the oppressor or oppressed) So no matter what knowledge is more important then faith. People think of think duality as devil/God or satan/jesus advisary/authority. Why not present duality as a complmentary instead of always contradictory. Electricity needs to move in both directions does it mean that negative electrons are bad/evil !!! I think certainly not.

mob rules then

Now we have the contrapositive of that with people reporting things that were flat out fallacious {i.e hands up don;t shoot and I can't breathe etc..}

"Morality is not subjective, it is OBJECTIVE." As Matt Dillahunty says, assuming that you can agree on a basis for morality (eg, human well-being), than you can make objective determinations of what is and is not moral based on that. However, the basis itself is necessarily subjective. There is no objective reason (in the sense that theists use it) to use human well-being as the basis for morality, but once you agree on that, objective determinations can be made, based on what we know about how the world works and how we interact with it. No creator needed.

Morality is not really subjective. If it is, then one could say there is no such thing as Morality & everything is acceptable. Murdering, Raping, Robbing.. or one could say there is only Morality & NOTHING is acceptable! Tearing all life away. Idgaf what the dictionary says about it being a code of ethics.. Morality, ultimately, is really the considerate or inconsiderate treatment of others. Morality is being nice, Immoral is being inconsiderate & bad.

If we can agree on what morality (not capitalized in English) is, then moral determinations can become objective. If we agree that morality is about maximizing human well-being, then we can objectively determine that murder, rape and robbery go against morality. But there is nothing that ultimately forces us to prefer to behave in a way that maximizes our well-being, so in that sense the basis of morality is subjective, if you look at morality as how we treat others, rather than treating others nicely, since that latter meaning presupposes the basis.

Again, I disagree. Morality is far from subjective. Murderers who find it ok to torture & murder, when they are captured, complain when they are tortured & beg for forgiveness & relief. Not all of them but eventually it seems they all give in. Especially in Damnation. Take robbers & rob them, they will not like it, most of them. So morality is really a term associated with right & wrong & we view these things as right or wrong for personal understanding of personal suffering & suffering is unwanted, so codes of morality are established to keep people happy & safe.

I'm drawing a distinction and you're just ignoring it. There is a difference between the basis for morality, and making moral determination based on that basis. You say morality is related to right and wrong - but the question is, right and wrong relative to what? There is no objective meaning to right or wrong, in the transcendent sense. But there is meaning to right and wrong with respect to human well-being, and so that can be used as a basis. And we can determine what things increase well-being and what things decrease it, and thus make objective determinations based on that. Murderers who find it okay to murder, who believe that murder is moral, are simply wrong from the perspective of human well-being.

Some hooligan...

More importantly "Education Ballsacks", the more important kind of ballsacks.

Lol. I know. I've just paused the video to check. Yep. Ballsacks.

Sapiosexual vandalisation ;D

Cycle of abuse. There's a cool TOOL song about that called 'prison sex'. Interesting psychological phenomenon that abuse victims often become perpetrators. Occurs even with benign stuff like bossing your kids around. Most likely though your mother just getting off on the power trip because she can't/hasn't gotten any power elsewhere in life.

Did you find one?

I do agree that the sound quality can be inmproved. We do that by taking the line out of the sound system, and use that for the line in of the video recorder. But hey, I am from the Netherlands and I can still understand every word of it...

All morality is relative. The irony of Christian morality is that Christianity itself is a human construct. All we have is how we define morality. Objectivity always comes after the definition of morality. Once you decide well-being is the basis for morality you no longer need a God.

Carl Eleck Behavior is not a term limited to animals in any way, and besides - humans are animals even if it was. Read the free e-book "Universally Preferable Behavior" by Stefan Molyneux if you are confused about the argument I made.

Carl Eleck "If a human is an animal, anything goes." That is not an argument. Care to elaborate what that statement even means in relation to the concept of ethics? Read the book I mentioned - it's pretty short but I don't want to have to basically regurgitate it all for you here in a RU-vid comment debate.

Carl Eleck Sure you're an atheist, but with this last comment I'm now pretty sure you are also an idiot. You don't even make grammatical sense, let alone any common sense. Worse yet you're pretending I said I bunch of stuff I never said, falsely attributing your own blathering nonsense as my argument - which I never made. I am done with you. Just read the damn book, you clearly still need some help with this stuff. And don't reply to me again or I'm just going to delete it.

Sorry, it's not "Treat others how you would like to be treated", it's, "Treat others how THEY would like you to treat them" Not everyone is going to want to be treated exactly like you want.

I see your argument. But what happens when someone wants to be treated differently than YOU think you should be treated. For example if I have little regard and self respect for myself than I can justify treating other people the same way. So yeah i think it is a little more complicated than a 1st grade outlook in morality.

If not for atheism you wouldn't even have a computer to type on. In fact you probably would be dead due to illness.

Ad Nauseum.

He's a fair-sized target, and doesn't move impossibly fast.

I've heard the first part ("Secular morality is basically just Christian morality...") but I can't make sense of "...in the guise of Scientism." Can you re-phrase / explain?

@@Devious_Dave it's because science explains natural phenomena and does it very well, but morality is another realm all together. many act like this isn't the case. you can't "see" morality without a value judgement where as you can see and measure biological processes without one.

@@tangerinesarebetterthanora7060 Thanks for explaining. Let's discard the word "scientism" and use things like observations & comparisons to assess societal fairness, benefit, etc.

wrong. secular morality is a morale code which is superior to religious moral codes... sorry but that includes christianity. religions may have come with some of the first crude attempts to devise a code of ethics or morals... kept especially simple for the masses, in some cases. but we've come beyond that and should continue to refine secular morality to fit any expansion in our scientific understanding of ourselves, our universe and our place in it

@@calldwnthesky6495 secular morality isn't based off of the empirical findings of science though, yet it is pushed by those in the scientific community because they can't fully let go of their christian sentiment