+Bill Murray There are also the LSx/LTx engines, EJ engines, JZ engines, RB26DETT, 4G63, Coyote, VR6, VQ series engine, and even various electric drivetrains to choose from - whatever you want your RX7 to do. Mazda were damn geniuses, giving you that many options!
Dunzhi Jialuo Good luck getting it to fit. I Have yet to see one yet. But Search youtube for 20b AE86 :) Old 3 rotor turbo from Japan in one of the old option videos.
They also spit flames like no other and the rotors stack like a hamburger so you can add displacement without increasing rotational inertia, thus keeping a high redline. You can stack 4 of them and make 500+ HP with no turbo on a moderate tune. There's just so much fascinating about a rotary.
So... this guy said "a race car built for the track.", then he said that the RX-7 has a British style to it. I don't get how it looks British, because to me it looks more like Japanese classic lightweights.
***** I believe it's a reference to TVRs, which are pretty much the epitome of British plastic/fiberglass-bodied street cars. Once you think TVR, I think it's actually not such a stretch to imagine the FD3S RX-7s coming out of the same Blackpool factory alongside Tamoras, Cerberas and Griffiths.
9:56 "The rotary engine certainly isn't better than the piston engine in any objective way" - smaller - lighter - simpler - sound better - rev higher - less vibration - cheaper to manufacture - less moving parts - no reciprocating parts - no catastrophic failure
+Kozzy Sound better? Arguable. No catastrophic failure? No, just lots of busted seals which are prohibitively expensive to replace and the reason why a huuuge percentage of the rotary engines ever made have already been scrapped for the value of their constituent metals, which as you pointed out, isn't much. Hmmm.
someone once told me apex seals are like timing belts hit 100k and spend some money and never think of it again for a while not to mention depending how you service your car you may not even need to replace them until 150k plus kms
@@boingkster I think you are ignoring the fact that it is the people who cannot take care pf the rotary engines, not the apex seal's problem. Give it to the pros or those who know how to maintain and they'll tell you how reliable it is. The 787B won the Le Mans with no failures at all, excluding the Group C cars etc! Don't want history? Nevermind. BEAR IN MIND THAT WANKEL ROTARIES ARE NOT PISTON ENGINES! People always use piston engine maintaining ways for rotaries! That is WRONG! Rotaries desire high rpms while common pistons engines (Not-Vtec) does not like over 6000rpm! My family owns a 2002 Mazda RX7 Spirit R Type A and all we need is patience in cold starts, give some gas and everytime you run the 13B for 5min, give it a soar to 7000rpm. Now our car has over 152,000km and it still works fine!
Matt Farah, next time run time attack when doing this comparison (not that it will happen). I'm sure the rotary car will prove to be superior. Side note; do people really care about MPG's in a sports car?
"not better in any objective way"??? WTF really? It's lighter, it turns in better, it shifts better. on top of that you can do a complete rebuild of the engine in 4 hours if you take your time... Not only that, if you want more power you can always swap in a 3 rotor instead of the standard 2....
Strycnine lol that’s such a dumb argument the V8 has more power out of the box, better fuel economy, more torque, better power delivery, and easier to tune and modify. The rotary is lighter but the LS makes more torque which makes up for it. “You can do a complete rebuild of the engine in 4 hours” and I could slap a supercharger on a LS1,LS2, LS7 and make even more power you know how easy it is to make power in an LS bolt ons, supercharger, and modified Cams is easily making 600-1000 depending on the tune and mod. Not to mention torque, which is important and you rotary boys forget about that. There’s a reason why the LS is so popular worldwide. Also the LS is still being produced today and you can even buy an LS crate from Chevy. What rotary can you buy from Mazda? Nope. Does Mazda make the rotary still?Nope. I wonder why? Lol let’s be real the LS is better. Sorry rotary fan. But facts destroys your delusional opinion s.
@@tristyn1124 Please shut up. You're comment is so stupid it's making the internet as dumb as you are. You wonder why they don't make rotary? Mazda stopped production in the early 2000s. Mazda isn't about the sports cars anymore. The only sports cars that they are even attempting is a Miata. With the rules, regulations, bans, polution etc etc selling a rotary just doesn't make sense in this time. Supply and demand. Why try and sell a sports car when a SUV will make you way more for spending way less? Rotary only seems unpopular in the US but in Puerto Rico, Australia, Japan and all over the world the Rotary is still alive and being used in multiple race platforms. Damn LS fanboy.
You all guys are stupid why not swap? Why not rotory...? Just let the owners do what they like and do it the way with your car that its right for you. Why always hating and not just loving cars and the difference and creativity... 😉 I can enjoy almost every car and there are no rules just bitching like girls.. I HOPE i can fulfill my dream and buy a rx7 in the next 5 years and i will keep the rotory but mayve some day i wake up and will swap an ls or just an 2jz who knows and you should not judge when u dont have to drive it
@@dove187 So what did you do with your RX7? Oh right, you don't have one, you're just a moron on the internet complaining about what someone else does with their own car, shut up child.
..."you don't have to work it as hard" ... but isn't that the point of a sports car? To reward you for being precise? A muscle car is all about speed and power and a sports car is about balance and skill. A V8 is like chubby housewife. But a rotary is like a supermodel. Both will make you smile, but for very different reasons. A V8 is more dependable and easier to live with. They will put up with alot of your shit but will always keep coming back. They will always find a way to fit into your life and may just be the only thing you ever need. And they will always find ways to make you laugh and smile. But a rotary takes a little more finesse. You have to work your ass off for them. But once you get on their good side they will reward you in ways most other things can not. Not with cheap laughs, but with a deep satisfaction. They demand you put the effort in and reward you accordingly. You either get it or you don't. They are not for everyone, but the best part about cars is that there are so many different ones; there is literally something for everyone.
eeterp32 Actually, a rotary is cheaper on maintenance. Half as many spark plugs and wires and in some cases, doesn't hold as much oil in the sump. Reliability is debatable. I've seen many rotaries eclipse 300K miles. My own V8 has 288K miles and burns as much oil as a normal rotary(1qt every 3,000 miles which is acceptable burn off). I've also gotten 29mpg in my RX-7 without super tall highway gears and cylinder deactivation or any other fuel conserving measure so this could be debated as well. Faster all comes down to your wallet. Anything can be made faster than anything with money.
eeterp32 Did you even read my comment? I said exactly that. Then I said that not every person is looking for the livability of a v8. Some people might find value in doing something the hard way. If you don't get it that's ok, maybe you aren't as crazy and masochistic as a rotary owner. That doesn't make the choice of a rotary over a v8 wrong. There is no right or wrong, it's just a personal preference. It's cool that you like v8's and all, but to post a reply like that proves you didn't even get the point of the comment. Are you trying to troll or what?
DopeItUp It would be great if we had the budget for that kind of stuff. Unless someone specifically offers us free track time, race tracks are out of budget.
DopeItUp very correct, should have tracked them ... if i had the r.e. rx7 i would brapppp all day son and if i had the v8 one i would be thinking about how to make that same brappp sound come out of a v8 ....
fuqu there is a second gen RX7 with an LS motor that shows up to the RMR midnight drags (SLC UT) It's white, with a power glide and nitrous shot. Small Race tires that fit inside the rear wheel wells. runs consistent 10.20's takes off like a shot and makes it look easy.
fuqu he has a 1200 horsepower power plant AND he has traction issues ? REALLY ? It must be the RX7 's fault. If the guy had his 1200 horsepower engine in any other chassis but an RX7 including a Postal Service Mail Man van, then it would hook up like mad.
fuqu just one more thing on a very long list that you can not get right. tell every one again about how much you know about RX-7s and cars in general tell every one again about how RX-7's have a huge traction problem even at only 400 horse power and you know because you and your cohort put a 1200 horsepower engine in one. tell everyone again about how smart you are about cars the correct position, since you tried to bring it up, is your face right down on the pavement right in front of a rear tire of your buddy's monster motored RX-7, you listening for a horsepower reading as your buddy does a hole shot launch attempt. Come back and tell every one all about all that you know after that ...... or is that not possible because your buddy's car is really making zero power as it does not even run at all, so you are just running your 1200 donkey power mouth instead.
Adrian marolias The whole point of the video was to be a comparison, each one has their respective pros and cons. Was the whole idea around it, but all people wanna do is rage.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of a V8 in an Rx7. With that being said however, if you really want to make a lot of power, going the V8 route would undoubtedly be more reliable in the long run and it would provide the low-end torque that only a large displacement motor can. Would it sacrifice handling? absolutely, but is it an absolute sin like most people make it out to be? no, it really just depends on what you want your car to be able to do. People who keep rotaries don't care so much about ridiculous straight line speed and acceleration and instead prefer handling, people who swap V8's don't care so much about handling and instead just want to go really fast. With either route, an Rx7 is still a beautiful and awesome car meant for a true gear-head.
its so hard to lose weight compared to making power and because lightness is the best mod as it improves every spect of performance without having cons it would be a challenge to get the weight lost that was gained from the swap but if you did and managed to get 50/50 distributon without the need of removing creature comforts like a/c or powersteering but instead relocate battery/full carbon fiber front end/carbon fiber bracing/arms and componants the ls swap would be perfect.
@@pigeonsil240sx LS engines are only 30-40 lbs heavier then the 13b with one turbo, and lighter then the dual turbo setup...the dimensions of the LS engine actually allows the car to maintain a near 50/50 distribution. seems like it would handle the same if not better than a stock rotary setup
@@hahahafunniness the 13b weighs 337 pounds and the ls1 weighs 430 pounds a near 100lb difference not just 30-40lb a difference that would effect handling characteristics and feel less nimble and agile then the 100 pound lighter motor,.. the purpose of the rx7 was to be a light agile car where others opted for tehnology that added weight, fc3s had a 48/52 weight distribution with t2 motor. i think the ticket here is removing 100lbs up front after swapping in the LS this way you still have close to 50/50 weight distribution if your into twisty roads,if its just a street car who cares about agility right.
You kinda kill the purpose and the character of a RX-7 if you LS swap it Sure, with a big fat V8 you get more torque and more reliability (dem apex seals) and like Matt says on the vide...it drives like a Corvette, and I don't want no Corvette! I want a RX-7!
The purpose is to have a good sports car that doesn't drain your wallet and your willpower. Ls rx7 is a better car than a corvette because its 700 lbs lighter, and 10 grand cheaper and you don't have to fuck around with the rotary anymore. It's bliss.
Actually, LS engines aren't big or fat. An LS1 or LS CT weighs about the same as a turbo 13B-REW, in fact. The LS is objectively better in almost every meaningful way. Weight goes up with these swaps most often simply because they beef up other things to handle the tremendous power of an LS.
Big fat LS ? Lol no. ALL LS engines are small and compact even the ls7. The displacement has to do with the bore of the cylinders and how much liters of air it can pump. So the inside of the engine is big but the block stays small
Weight isn’t really the problem though. The problem is that an LS sits way higher in the engine bay, which if you know anything about physics you’d know that makes a huge difference. Stock RX7’s are technically front mid engined cars because the engine sits behind the front wheels. In turn making it handle much better. If you LS swap it you lose out on those handling characteristics which is why he says it feels like a vette.
Oh my god youtube. I told myself i wouldnt adblock to support the hardworking content creators. But when you put a commercial before EVERY video. Well youre pushing it.
Ikr...you pay all that money to use their service, then they actually have the gall to want even more money to pay their employees. Oh wait, youtube is free and manned by real people. How dare they want to be paid...they should just do this so you can watch free stuf at whim.
Back in the early 2000's I worked for a Mazda dealer, there where two models no one else but me looked forward to working on. The FD3S RX7 and the Miller cycle Millenia S. I wish one of each would come through my corner..
The rotary has most of the same problems that two-strokes do. The biggest of which being, they're ALWAYS compared to engines of massively larger displacement. In this video we have a 1.3 duking it out with a 6.0. The fact that they can even be compared in the first place is outrageous. From an engineering standpoint, I think the rotary is fascinating and loaded with potential. If the rotary had come first, and someone came along in the 60s with an invention called the four-stroke piston engine with Model-T era development of the design, it would be a lame joke.
JETZcorp Its not about displacement its about the fuel burnt. That 1.3 was burning twice the fuel so the comparison is fair. If it was NA then that is a different story but that turbo is pushing some serious air and that is then followed by a lot of fuel, matching the V8
***** Thd turbo complicates matters because anything can be made insane with a giant turbo. But I mean in general, rotaries and two-strokes always punch way above their weight. You can find NA 13b peripheral port builds running with Corvettes. There is no way on Earth you'd see a 1.3L piston engine hanging with a 6.0L rotary, especially if the rotary had been around twice as long. That's the point I was getting at.
JETZcorp That's because cylinder volume is a lie on rotaries. Measure it the same way you measure a V engine and a 13b is a 2.6L engine. Put in 14.3lbs of boost and because of how atmospheres work, a little 13b becomes a 5.2L engine, as far as swept volume is concerned.
Skylar Garrett Nobody adds displacement rating when boost is added. Does a ZR1 have an 8.2L because it's got a blower? And the only reason one might say a 13b is a 2.6L is that each rotor fires once per output shaft revolution, which is double that of a four-stroke piston engine. But it's the same a two-stroke, and no one tries to say a 500cc two-stroke is actually a 1000cc because of it. If anything, we should be saying this V8 is a 3.0L because it's being so leisurely about power pulses.
What happens when you put a V8 in it ? YOU RUIN IT !!! and then if you want to put a V8 in it use Japanese muscle (Toyota UZ Engine) and yes i'm mad about people putting ls engines in Japanese cars xD Life is not a ls swap contest
Martin Espinoza yeah it sucks that about every 80k miles you need at least 5k to replace them :( So what is the deal with BMW's ? was it that thing where a e30 engine rebuild costs like 15000 $
an even bigger sacrilege is how a corvette with 250k miles still runs strong and an rx7 with 100k miles needs an overhaul. if you even make it to 100k.
i think people look at the LS swapped RX-7(or Japanese cars) the wrong way. In typical Hot Rodder fashion, gear heads look at the RX-7 as having an amazing chassis/package. All they wanted to do was see what would happen if you put a V8 in it. .......nobody complained when Carol Shelby put a 427 into an AC Ace and called it a Cobra.....
Blair Clarke Best comment, was thinking about the Cobra while reading all these bitchy, negative "no you can't do that cuz I said so" comments. If it wasn't for out of the box thinkers like Shelby, everything would be the same.
Blair Clarke Indeed. Matt even mentioned a lot of the upsides of the LS2 compared to the 13B. All those benefits for just a slightly tweaked weight balance and a few more pounds? Seems like a rational argument to me.
Blair Clarke I agree I have had fast cars and fun cars, but the fast cars weren't fun for long. Usually a V8 car is more fun to drive because of the low speed performance and less chance of going to jail vs. a fast car that is only a thrill that 1% of the time you can drive it at 100+ and not get caught. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade my S600 for anything but for around town driving my fox bodied 5 speed or big block Galaxy is much more fun. Every car has a place where it shines.
TypeVertigo FD RX-7 just seem to beg for an LS Swap. Reving a car to 8,000RPM or more to get max HP gets old quick. My old BRZ wouldn't come alive to 4,200RPM.....and even once it hit that point it was still a dog for awhile. You better believe an LS3/LS7 BRZ sure would have put a smile on my face a lot quicker
Goes to show that all americans care about is straight line speed. Why not put a big chunky V8 in a car that is all about handling. I can tell you why rotaries are so great, it's because they're very lightweight with a very low center of gravity, which can give you handling characteristics that you can't achieve with a piston engine. Why would you want a unique car like the RX-7 to feel like a Corvette? Doesn't make any sense to me.
I don't know, because they're stupid? People do stupid stuff all the time. Like I said, all americans care about is straight line speed. I'm glad I don't live in a country where people don't care about quarter mile times.
There you go again, resorting to insults. If your only argument for something being great is that many people do it, that probably also means that McDonalds is great food. Even I could have found a better reason than that.
A fairer comparison would be a NA 20B vs the V8 in terms of amount of fuel burnt and degree of eccentric shaft rotation vs degree of crankshaft rotation.
The benefits of the rotary motor are lower weight and lower center of gravity due to smaller size so it can sit lower in the chassis but the drawbacks are lower MPG and oil consumption. Plus they make a pretty crazy amount of power per liter in comparison to standard piston engines which is pretty cool.
derbigpr500 Would it fit though? An inline engine is much longer than a V and definitely longer than a rotary. Not sure it would fit. I could be wrong though. Probably more expensive than an American V8.
I had Rx's before, this engine is for a project . Not a Rx. I will only build a one off car, no copy cat bull shit cars.Have you seen all the copy cars just of FF? insane and not for me.
Sorry Matt you went into this biased... This has been an ongoing argument in the rotary community for years and nothing was solved with your review. Put two 450hp FDs on the track with similar suspension and brakes just the engine being different and you might have validated one or the other. Then again knowing the arguments I've seen its like talking politics...
Just my experience with the local rx7 community. The LS swap guys, rarely ever go to the track. The few times I've seen them, they get out paced by 2-3 seconds even with a 100-200hp advantage. Or they stick to the drag strip which is like 90% of LS swapped rx7's. Here's my issue with this channel, i like to watch the videos and i like how he talks to the owners, but you can't learn shit about what cars are capable of by spirited driving through a canyon. Sure it's relaxing, but kinda pointless.
Braddah E Yeah it’s almost like pure horsepower isn’t what matters on the track. IMO once you get past like 600 WHP it starts to become a game of diminishing returns. LS guys can stick to the drag strip. Would much rather have a rotary that I can practically pull apart on the track then an LS that makes more power that I have to have towed away.
Dee Jay I like the FC3S RX-7s myself, as well. Somebody mentioned them basically being a Japanese equivalent to the Porsche 944 in terms of body styling - not a bad comparison.
TypeVertigo I believe the guy who designed the 944's body was brought in to design the FC's body. They look too much alike for it to be a coincidence and i doubt they would just blatantly rip it off.
Dee Jay I agree with loving the second gen's most. While FD's have the "90's vibe" the FC's just feel like an import legend, which is why I proudly drive my FC :)
I agree to me personally the fc looks the best I love the fd but it reminds me of a bigger miata which isn't bad it looks good but it's not a fc at the end of the day I love my fc the look and the balance of the car
Mmmmmh, I wonder if my 06 Mini is faster on a straight after I put a bigger Engine in it. The V8-part of this is pretty pointless but I really enjoyed the red one. Also cool owner.
Kabrueggen100 He also said that it pulls better out of corners, and no. Putting a V8 in a mini with front wheel drive, it'll probably just spin the tires, while stock mini will pull away. It's the idea of mating a good chassis with a good engine. A Chevy V8 is a ton more reliable, and makes more power, and it makes an interesting, and faster car. It's a bit sacrilegious, but I like that about it. If you're allowed to be different by owning a rotary, why not be allowed to be twice as different, and have an American engine in a tiny car, which makes it a ton faster? Carroll Shelby did the same thing... just saying.
***** Except than LS swaps are so common that it's not any different. It's just overplayed. It pulls better out of corners on the street, but it wouldn't on a track. Carroll Shelby did it to a British roadster that was struggling to sell on it's own, not the most winning car in IMSA history(with it's own engine).
***** I'm sorry but no, if you could fit a V8 inside of a mini, it would MOST CERTAINLY pull away faster than a stock one. *(A) Because there's a ton more weight (therefore grip) over the tires. *(B)* Because it'd have a better Power:Weight than most supercars. And *(C)* because the mini can't spin it's tires stock, a mini that COULD spin it's tires (in the hands of a decent driver) could pull away with the MAX grip possible AND THEN SOME, which is ideal actually. The perfect pull-away would be the tires baaaarely spinning, that extra tire inertia does help when the car catches, and at that point it will have a boost over a locked tire.
cybertree Hmm. This all sounds great. Except for the fact that fitting a transverse V8 is impossible in a mini. Well... unless you plan on widening the body a whole foot. You don't seem to get the joke. A big V8 with tiny mini tires would spin A LOT especially if it was front wheel drive, as all the weight of the vehicle shifts to the rear as you accelerate. If it was rear wheel drive, and had bigger tires, then okay. But we're assuming fitting a V8 transverse! Forget it. XD!
Kabrueggen100 You are all missing the point here. If you actually think this would be a reasonable swap worth discussing (Mini+V8), you propably know your shit from Need for Speed or Forza at best ;-) Watch Road Kill and tell me that putting those V8s in anything with enough room in the enginebay isn´t foolproof. But yes, the fool will have horsepower. If that´s all you´re looking for, cool.
***** Sadly no. The 2JZ while powerful, is WAY to big & heavy for the FD chassis. The car becomes to nose heavy for turns & ruins the balance the FD chassis possesses. Yes, it's the ultimate combination for a 90's super car, but honestly an LS3 would be the perfect choice for this car. You can bore & stroke the engine to get a much higher redline while staying around 500whp
DirtDude117 Ugh I had no idea, I love the looks of the FD and the sound and potential of the 2JZ but I guess in reality it doesn't work so well. I'm all for an LS swap, unlike most people lol
Mikael K The Rx7 Chassis is that really attracted me to the car. It's basically a Japanese Corvette, but more rounded & in a smaller package. Dropping any LS motor in this car is a great move, heck a 5.0 coyote would be a great choice as well. I for one would love a 3.5L Ecoboost or 3.6L twin turbo from the CTS-V in this car but both those engines are far away from swapping time.
great job matt! I like the part how you explained and differentiated the driveline. Really nice hearing somebody thoroughly explain the mass and inertia forces clutch,etc.
I don't get it... if the v8 car feels exactly like a corvette, why not just get a cheap c5 corvette to do your build. It's still a light car, it even looks similar to the Mazda, and they both have the same shitty plastic 90s interior. Except you'll get a better deal on the vette since it's not a cult classic.
Leroy Deuster Yeah, stock. An RX-7 FD is about 2800lbs vs. 3200lbs. for a C5. Throw in the weight of an LS motor, T-56, and a beefier rear axle and I'd say you're pretty damn close to the vette.
highwaystar1009 actually the ls motor and transaxle is about the same weight if not less than a stock rx7 with twin turbos. Yes it weights more than the single turbo rx7 but barely. Still less than a stock Corvette.
Leroy Deuster I guess I'll take your word on it... not that I'm opposed to the swap (frankly, rotary cultists annoy the fuck outta me), but man all that money you put into it could get you a nice shiny C5 Z06 and then some. To each their own, but I'd have a hard time justifying the swap.
highwaystar1009 As a previous C5 owner, I assure you I'd take the RX-7 with the V8 simply due to it's compact size. The C5 is a much wider car and while it may be the only time the Corvette's interior material and build quality is higher than a Japanese competitor, I much prefer the design of the Mazda's cabin over that of the Vette.
Pure Sacrilege !!! put a V8 in any other car, i don't care but NOT in an iconic RX7 with its even more iconic rotary engine that can eazily be tuned to over a 1000hp so why THE HELL would ya need a V8 in that???
One of the things that's fantastic with rotaries is how smooth they run. For example it's easy to forget you are in 3rd gear while going 70 mph through a set of twisties. It LOVES to rev, and that's a feeling you'll never get out of a V8. It's silky smooth! Btw, I'm talking about relatively stock engines with quiet cat-back exhaust setups (this car almost sounded like it had open exhaust -- way too loud for me) I have a feeling the power band in this single turbo is obnoxious. I've seen some of them with turbo lag that looked outright dangerous. Rob Dahm's 3 rotor single turbo comes to mind. Heh
Displacement has absolutely nothing to do with this comparison. Especially since Rotary Engines have more power per displacement than a traditional engine.
@@LilleyAdam not even close to true, a complete myth. My rx7 that I've had for 19yrs and done countless driving jobs with gets better mpg than any v8 period. Even now at 462whp, I still average 13-16mpg in rush hour traffic and my GTU averaged well over 30 hwy mpg, but that matter even my 83 quad carb got close to 30 and I don't drive any of them nice always in the redline. Plus, my 13BT has almost 365k on it and I've only rebuilt it once to port it. Myths by people who don't know shit, nothing more.
if i had a rx7 id put a v8 in it, i love the rotary and i know the church of the rotary saints are gonna hate me for saying this but with a v8 i dont have to worry about my engine shooting its guts out of the exhaust around 70-80 k miles, plus parts and maintenance are cheaper with a v8
if a could afford it i would keep the rotary, but when its starts to wail on my wallet ill put a v8 in there, dont get me wrong i love the rotary just its just not cheap to maintain in america
Great video Matt. NOW if you were to take both of those cars to the track, and compare times? That would be awesome! And yes a 20B 3 rotor would be a better comparison for pure power , but the smoothness of the 13B FD is why it IS special. Cheers.
The key to the RX series is feel. On performance numbers, there are many more capable cars. The RX focuses on the passion for driving. It intertwines the human and machine to create an experience. Shortly after purchasing mine, I found myself making excuses to go for drives on the most convoluted roads I could fine. The way you can toss the car about is unbelievable. It really feels like an adult go kart where you have precise and intimate control. Then when the drive finally ends, you step out of the car with a grin from ear to ear looking forward to the next time. Very few cars inspire this type of enjoyment.
"It's got an LS2 in it"... well you don't drive an RX7 then. Yes, sticking a massive engine in a teeny car, it'll go faster... but that's not the point, is it? If you want an RX7, it's because you want the rotary. If you don't want the rotary, save yourself money, effort and hatred by buying a Corvette. There's _no_ point. It's pure preference. A Corvette would be rubbish with a wankel, the RX7 _only_ works with a rotary, because that's the whole point. In short, _in an RX7_, the V8 loses every time. In a car _meant_ for V8s... sure, go ahead.
Its his car, and he didn't want to deal with the rotary. Rotaries are less reliable, dont last as long, require more maintenance, guzzle fuel, and burn through oil. If you look at them objectively, the V8 is better. It's just people always think the Rotary is cool and gets more love because of that.
For street cars a v8 would probably be better, rotaries are definitely better on a track, they can handle the abuse a lot more than a piston engine and get better gas mileage believe it or not. A rotary will get almost the same gas mileage at 9k rpm than it does cruising at 3k while with a V8, forget about it. I'm not saying rotaries are superior to V8s, especially small block chevys, LS motors are brilliant and I'm a fan of all cars but to say one is better than the other is ignorant. Go to any SCCA event and you'll see how many Rx-7s are out there in different classes that dominate. Rotaries are more for purists that love rotaries, the sound, the smoothness, and it's so much fun to drive the piss out of it without damaging anything.
Great find to get two cars that are so close to each other except for the drive train, it really does the comparison justice. The Corvette comparison was interesting considering the similar profile of the C5 and the FD, so it's like having a mini C5. What's going on with the off camera narration audio? EQ problem, bad mic, or Matt had a cold? Off camera voice is usually pretty good in these videos.
I enjoyed watching this, 'cause I love these cars, but really, the conclusions are not very meaningful. "The rotary is not better in any meaningful way," after listing 3 or 4 meaningful ways it's better? C'mon, man. And then, to say, as a blanket statement, "the V8 is faster than the rotary"...well, maybe THAT V8 powered car was faster than THAT rotary. Maybe it was. That being said, I'm sure I could find an example comparison where the tuned rotary was faster than the V8 in a different swap. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have bet against the RX-7 on most tracks head to head against the Corvette of that era. You just can't make generalized conclusions like that based on two specific one-off tuner cars, it's silly, and I know you know this. Of course, people can do what they want with their cars, but the RX-7 was designed around the light-weight, high-revving rotary. If I buy one (I had 3 over the years) then I buy it for that. If I want V8 torque then I'll get a car made for that. Hell, that's what I'm driving now, a V8 (not in an RX-7!). But maybe that's just me...
Unless you're closer to the producers than I am (and you may well be) we know nothing of the sort. I mean, you MAY be right, but we don't know that from the video. I just think it would have been more appropriate to illustrate the many subjective differences without drawing unsupported conclusions.
Jeff Smith Did you forget the fact that the V8 didn't have to work nearly as hard to drive fast and used less than half the fuel? I think those are quite meaningful conclusions, unless you're ignorant.
Ooh that must be it. I must be ignorant. Or, maybe, you weren't aware that the rotary-powered RX-7 absolutely DOMINATED the classes it was designed for... Classes in which the Corvette and its oh-so-superior V8 were a distant second. 'Work nearly as hard.' What does that even mean? Have you ever driven a rotary car? They lust for those high revs. That's not working hard... That's doing what God and the engineers at Mazda intended. But what about the fuel economy, you ask. Well, you got me there. The rotary is a bit of a gas hog. But if that's your priority, I can think of many things better than a Chevy V8. You want fuel economy, buy a fucking Prius.
Well done on such a good comparison that doesn't trash the individuals choice. My only gripe being a Mazda rotary owner and lover is the idea of taking the most cleanest and complete Rx7 you can find and using it for a donor car.
could not have asked for two better cars to compare. both of them extremely clean and extremely well-built. if you offered me both i couldn't choose between them. fantastic video, matt!
As someone who plans to purchase an FD down the road, I couldn't bring myself to replace the rotary. It's sacrilege, and I prefer the sound and handling benefits to of the rotary anyways. Stripping an RX-7 of the rotary is like stripping it of its soul, at least to me.
HEY GUYS I HAVE AN IDEA!! Why dont people who buy V8s and put in rx7s, buy V8s and put in rx7s. And then people who like rotary engines in rx7...DONT swap their rotary engines for an LS7! And then the rest of the people shut the fuck up because its not your car and you dont have to give a crap about what other people do to their rides! You dont go around telling people what colour shirt they should be wearing so why do you care what engine they are running?
Wayland C yeah but if you go to Osaka japan and see the car culture out there you will change the mind set. building and maintaining a car is more a way of life then passion if I could id own every car under the sun not to have bragging right but for my own taste in cars. I grew up with v8 cars but I also grew up to know its not what others think about my car its what I think of it and how it makes me feel. I love all cars from nissan to chevells and Lamborghini. my point is that if everyone would stop trying to push things on other people and let them do what makes them feel good there would always be that my own car is better then everyone elses car because its my car.
bzdtemp Yes, I am telling people they should not criticize about other people's car, is that so wrong? Its fine to express your opinion on why you prefer a certain setup but criticizing a setup just because you don't have that setup is stupid. Everyone here seems to be talking shit about a setup they dont like or have. Also, this conversation is going nowhere, im not quite sure what you're trying to prove.
*****What if people who wanted to buy v8 sports cars could buy v8 sports cars? OH WAIT! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-6Pay_-WMK_Y.html#t=7m50s So the question is, for the price of a salvage GTO, a roller Rx7, and overnight parts from ??? is a 20 year old Mazda chassis with a swap better than a 10 year old GM car OEM?
Glad the red car exists, they make me smile. Rotary screams "racecar" at high revs. But give me the one that doesn't need constant maintenance and parts are cheap. The answer is LS
I think you are ignoring the fact that it is the people who cannot take care pf the rotary engines, not the apex seal's problem. Give it to the pros or those who know how to maintain and they'll tell you how reliable it is. The 787B won the Le Mans with no failures at all, excluding the Group C cars etc! Don't want history? Nevermind. BEAR IN MIND THAT WANKEL ROTARIES ARE NOT PISTON ENGINES! People always use piston engine maintaining ways for rotaries! That is WRONG! Rotaries desire high rpms while common pistons engines (Not-Vtec) does not like over 6000rpm! My family owns a 2002 Mazda RX7 Spirit R Type A and all we need is patience in cold starts, give some gas and everytime you run the 13B for 5min, give it a soar to 7000rpm. Now our car has over 152,000km and it still works fine!
Seems from what I've read, like the main keys with a turbo rotary other than standard maintenance are 1) new turbo setup because of weight/complexity of the stock sequentials. and 2) upgraded cooling system
wow. compare a car with a fascinating unconventional engine concept and 1.2l displacement and therefor a very light weight with a car that got a heavy boring 6.0l v8 in it. (which is in my opinion the most boring concept of all.) And then say the V8 swap ist better cause it's faster? the rx-7 is a special car and deserves the respect of every petrolhead in the world for the amount of work and the braveness the engineers put in that car. all for the decison to put a rotary in it. for those engineers it must feel like a punsh in the face to hear you guys say "it would have been better with a V8" .. because it's faster... i am disappointed
Caspar A Heavy, maybe. Boring? Not a chance. The V8 has better reliability, better support for repairs and upgrades, better fuel economy. The power it puts out far outweighs (pardon the pun) the additional weight. You lose a little bit in the corners but you gain much more coming out of them. The RX-7 is a special engineering feat, however, its rarity does NOT make it better.
+Phoenix Ward I totally know where you are coming from on that, and i used to stay the same thing. But then i got ahold of an Ls1. Just drive something with an Ls motor and i swear it will make sense.
+Dagan Williams sure an ls engine in anything that's not Japanese. personally I love the 2jz and rb26 but one is significantly easier to get a hold of than the other
+Phoenix Ward I agree its a sick thing to do, but i think an ls3 in an Rx-7 would make it the perfect car. Ive owned two rx-7s and driven plenty of others. They need torque, period. Ls fixes that
All the butthurts in the comments bitching about LS in the rx7. If i had a rx7, and the rotary blows like it usually does, im slapping an LS in it. Is the rotary engine good? Of course it is. Would i swap for an LX if i had one? Most likely not, but i do love my GM v8's
did you not hear that the first guy owned his for 7 and tracked it hard for 5 or something and never had a blown engine just keep hearing what you want to hear
My friend has almost pulled the trigger on a rx7 several times and they all had engines that have needed to be rebuilt so he just pulled out of the deal
Most likely those people did not take care of there car like 60% of the cars I work on a daily basis it is said when you pull a oil drain plug and nothing comes out of the car until you poke a screw driver in the drain plug hole because of all of the sludge that has belt up not to say it takes 20min to dump new oil into the engine do to sludge. How these cars continue to run is beyond me. I just find it sad to see any car that has not been taken care of. I don't know how many people have came in with a car that had only 4000 miles on it and you ask them what there driving and they say I don't know it that one out there. if it does not last for ever people claim bad reliability and then the car is doomed. I know this because I drive a car brand (not a RX7 or the RX8) that has that rep. I have owed two now and nether has seen a shop for any reason then my own fault because I don't drive a sports car like I should drive with what I do like Auto crossing, track racing (sadly one time) and drag racing. and a lot of spirited driving with people that drive true sports cars (350z,RX7,corvettes,mustangs,RX8,boxers,elise,300zx).
probably didnt know how to properly mantain (yes they have higher mantainance than a piston engine) a rotary, its like when idiots come to me and tell me, 2strokes are unreliable, its different and people lack of knowledge kills them
I see a lot of die-hard 'rotarians' are quite offended by this engine swap. As a 'resto-mod' I think it makes good sense to install a modern piston engine in place of the buzzy and very thirsty rotary. However, I would propose installing an engine from the Camaro-- the V6 to be specific! It would provide the balance and steering response of the rotary, being shorter and lighter than a V8, and is rated at over 300 hp-- plenty to move that light car.
theyre such beautiful cars. It still blows my mind that they dont look even close to as old as they actually are. They still turn my head more than anything else... and that even before thinking about sporting ability
I love always on topics like these reading comments like "its passion, this is ART!" followed by a laundry list of strict rules on how you are allowed to pursue said passion and "art".. or further use those terms as a reason to justify their daddy like outburst as they spank you for doing it wrong. do what you want to do.. its hilarious all these guys on their soap box as self proclaimed tuners whining about purity and the "slap in the face to the engineers".. if you want to preach that way of thinking than your car best be bone stock.. because all of those suspension upgrades, cosmetic mods, and different turbo set ups etc.. are all a slap in the face to the engineers. its very easy to tell someone else how their shit needs to be built but i am willing to wager if someone started telling you all the things that need to change about your project to suit their opinion that shit wouldn't fly. as for the v8 in the rx7 i like it. there is always such an uproar about lack of respect between even say the divide in Muscle vs Import. but then someone does something like this and those same people cry about it.. to me i would feel like a scenario much like what was described in the video to be an excellent reason for it. dude grows up with muscle and drag racing.. perhaps you really have love and passion for the old rumble of a v8.. but then he had a mazda and realized he really enjoyed driving that, so he took what he knew which was muscle and dropped it into the import and bam.. there the two sides of the hobby meet. I grew up Mopar and Ford but would love that ls rx7. i always see the mustang guys crying about ls swaps, and sure you get the arrogance there sometimes "its cus you cant make ford fast" which is nonsense.. but perhaps the dude grew up chev and wanted a mustang so he went with what he knows. if it runs and you enjoy your car there isn't a wrong way to do it. i mean shit everyone pays money to go see jet cars.. or school buses at the drag strip doing wheelies the whole way down.. how ridiculous would it be to hear "YOU CANT DO THAT!!! THOSE ARE TO GET KIDS TO SCHOOL!! YOU ARE A SPITTING ALL OVER THE ENGINEERING AND THE ART OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION!!!"
