Why The MCU Succeeded and The DCEU Failed 

Fun fact: Green Lantern (2011) was supposed to be the first film to start the DCEU but since it failed miserably at the box office, Man of Steel became the first movie to start the DCEU!

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is like opening up a fresh new book and reading from Chapter 1 all the way to chapter 23. The DCEU is like opening up a book and flipping through chapters like your in a choose your own adventure. You start from Chapter 1, Green Lantern, you didn't like it so you tore it out, start on Chapter 2, skip to 17, go all the way to 25, read the epilogue, went to 3, went to 5, gone to the store to buy the directors cut, read it, burnt it, and bought book 3. Maybe I'm overexaggerating but you get my point

Two words: Warner Bros.

Fun fact: George Miller's cancelled justice league mortal movie was also going to start a DC cinematic universe (maybe even before the MCU). It's a shame that movie was cancelled.

Dceu should keep their main focus on the films and have spinoff shows that air all over the world and not US only. They should push their comics too.

Our problem is our unity. We fight amongst ourselves. We need to accept Robert and Ben as Batman, and not compare them. They are 2 very different batmans Rob is in his second year whereas Ben has already completed 20 years. We should stop being toxic and start accepting things as a united fan base.

I hope Ben Affleck's performance as Batman is not the last in the Flash movie. I hope he and Henry Cavill return. We all want to see the whole DC universe fight against Darkside. It would be amazing just like Avenger's Endgame was.

The main reason why DCEU failed is Warner Brothers and The Producers itself meanwhile MCU is having a great success because of Kevin Feige himself. I hope Zaslav saves the major IPs like DC and Wizarding World

The biggest difference is on the management side. MCU, whether you love or hate the films, has a great management. Even in behind-the-scene. There were some problems within MCU like the replacement of War Machine & Hulk actors, but as you can see now, lots of people already forget about it. Phase 1 was criticised by many critics & even some critics who got death threats from MCU fans on facebook for criticising MCU films. But Marvel Studios didn't chicken out, nor they tried to alienate their diehard fans. They didn't get panic so bad. They stayed on track to finish the infinity stones storyline despite what critics & haters said, then it slowly evolved from there to this point. WB messed up big time because of some critics who were obviously leaning to MCU & Nolan's Batman trilogy. So, when DC presented something new & different from those 2, their subconscious automatically rejected it. Then WB panicked & changed track too drastically & too quickly. They scrapped Snyder's vision & changed the films' tones so drastically. They couldn't handle the behind-the-scene problems like their treatment to Ray Fisher & Gal Gadot, the interference on Snyder's & Ayer's works, also the fact that WB bosses refused to make Joker & the director had to fight them to film it. They handled it badly, it got big on social media. They also tried to alienate the diehard fans who's been loyal to them since MoS. Everything fell apart & then they used Multiverse as a gimmick to win over both the fans & the critics, which actually created a bigger division in DC film fandom. Now there's a "civil war" because of that bloody gimmick.

There's several reasons, the main being studio interference but as much as many fans don't want to acknowledge it, you can't deny just how much a large portion of the MCU fanbase played a huge factor in many of DC's failures. These people are the one's who would shit on anything DC (and non MCU Marvel films) regardless of how good it was, and that was a huge problem for many films during their theatrical runs. Then the critics who clearly favoured the MCU done it with everything, not just DC. Sony/Fox films, any film that tried to create a cinematic universe, it didn't matter to them as it wasn't Disney Marvel, so they would trash it. The irony is that if you took something like X-Men: Apocalypse (which people hated) and you kept everything exactly the same but slapped a Marvel Studios logo on it, critics would've loved it, which in turn would've swayed fans as it has that all important logo attached to it. It seems to be calming down now, but from around 2012-2019 anything non MCU related outside of a few films was basically doomed.

DCEU issues has been consistency, that's 100% correct. I see no problem with JL being the 3rd film as the characters can their solo films after then team up movie, which is what they did.

After watching a lot of MCU movies, i can't denied whether you hated it or loved it, the MCU in term of management have been pretty consistent so far. Its like reading a book, where each chapter or in this case movie, start out in their own world or stories, but in the end they managed to connect into one single multiverse and managed to form one cohessice storyline. Something that Hamade DC Universe was lacking, while i can't denied a lot of Post Snyder DCEU movies were good like Wonder Woman 1, Aquaman, Shazam, Suicide Squad 2021,and The Peacemaker. But each of their movies felt like they lived in their own world, sure there are some cameos from previous movies, but a lot of the movies felt more like a bunch of good stand a lone movies that lived in their own world, we know they seems to took place in the same universe, but the universe as a whole didn't had a clear direction on what i want to be. While i also can't denied that not every MCU movies were good, some bad ones like Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor:The Dark World, Avengers:Age of Ultron, Captain Marvell, and Black Widow, and some divisive one like Iron Man 3 and Eternals, But the rest are range from enjoyable to straight up masterpice, with the universe itself had a clear vision and direction and where they want to be, even till this day, they managed to pull it off with Phase 4.

The DCEU can still be successful simply just by #RestoringTheSnyderverse. I think if WB gets their act together now under the new Discovery management, anything is possible. Never say never. People laughed at Snyder Cut fans saying the movie didn't exist and is now we're the ones laughing with it being the number one streamed film of 2021 across the globe. I also say quality over quantity, more movies doesn't necessarily equate to the MCU franchise being better, most of their movies are average to good at best, and a few like Thor Ragnarok and Eternals are just downright stinkers like TSS and WW84 of the DCEU. For me personally, MOS, BvS:UE, and ZSJL are miles ahead of all four Avengers films any day of the week.

I think you stated it very well. The MCU has just stayed consistent and it kept the audience United along the way. I’d say a little over half of the MCU films are mediocre but each feels important to the overall story which makes it mandatory viewing.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe, perhaps the most successful franchise of all time, strikes the right balance by (1) selecting for experienced inexperience, (2) leveraging a stable core, (3) continually challenging the formula, and (4) cultivating customers' curiosity.

why marvel succeeded where dceu failed?easy:-marvel cared about its fans and gave us what we wanted and dc took and destroyed everything we loved

I really hope the Snyderverse gets restored but only on HBO Max. Have WB continue their DCEU by releasing them in cinemas, while Zack Snyder can release his full vision on HBO Max only. And we'll see which one is superior.

The legacy of individual DC films like The Dark Knight, Man of Steel, Watchmen, Joker, The Batman, Zack Snyder's Justice League, Wonder Woman.....those individual legacies will always collectively outshine and outweigh anything that the "Biggest TV show ever committed to the big screen" approach of the MCU brings to the table. Marvel had one decade where there films definitively outshined DC at the Box Office(but not always in quality)....but almost everything outside of that decade, before and after...DC pretty consistently wins out in quality and a good portion of the time wins the Box Office Battle. A 3 Hour Batman mystery out-sold Black Widow, Venom 2, Shang Chi, and Eternals. An R rated crime thriller about Joker made $1 Billion dollars. Sure, No Way Home was huge and Multiverse of Madness will be huge...but those tricks won't last forever. Zack Snyder's Justice League has attracted sustained attention and support that no Marvel movie ever gets. Marvel films come and go and you are looking towards the next one as soon as one is over, like a TV show. Snyder's Justice League is a year old and the hype and attention is STILL here, and the movement to get sequels is still pushing forward. That inspires a level of dedication in the fanbase that Marvel films don't....Marvel films are just there and will always be there and will always have a disposable sense about them.

if we look carefully, the movies after JL 2017 all have a major creative control given to directors and have proven to be actually good.... unfortunately the damage by WB in Josstice League was big enough to undermine even the consistency 🤦🏻‍♂️

You also have to remember that DC was trying to do the whole universe before Marvel did

Also Warner Bros still does not care what the fans want. It is what the executives want. Which doesn't make sense because fans bring in the money.

What went wrong with the DCEU could be said for the SW sequel trilogy as well when it comes to consistency.

In my opinion, the films that came out after Josstice League can still have happened after Zack Snyder's Justice League since they do not contradict with what happened in JL. (the only film that contradicts anything from BvS and JL is WW84).

Comes down to planning, the MCU took their time to craft their universe, practically 11 years with movies characters all set up. DC by rushing their project created major issues in their projects highlighted by BVS and Justice League in which the extended versions are far superior product. My view is I don't think the DCEU will ever be able to truly compete with marvel, without have a vision and proper time line to build up to.

As a marvel fan, I hope the DCU does well and earns the audience the DC characters deserve. Getting James Gunn to make the films was a great choice, he understands super heros better than most at hollywood

If Warner Bros would have just stuck with Zack Snyder's dark serious movies then they'd be better off. But they had to go and fight Zack Snyder, ruin the vision that they paid him to set up, and now they're going to reset the DCEU and explore a more colorful and comical timeline. Marvel Studios is starting to get into the more dark and serious stuff. Then they're going to have both the light hearted stuff and and the dark serious stuff in different parts of the MCU.

I almost entirely agree with you on this. I wish WB understood that the MCU had worse box office numbers pre-Avengers than the DCEU had before Justice League. As I watched the end of Zack Snyder's Justice League, I immediately thought, "Man. This would have been DC's Avengers. This would have been the movie that put the DCEU on the map as a force to be reckoned with." The Dark Knight Trilogy had already established a powerful presence, with two movies that made over a billion dollars. DC could have leveraged that kind of confidence into something great. But they didn't trust the man Christopher Nolan handpicked to start the universe, Zack Snyder. They needed to listen to the constructive criticisms (and I had some of those myself, though I love MoS and BvS), but stay the course. Now, they've gotten so scattershot about what they're doing. Post-JL, one has to ask, is it a shared universe, or are these loosely connected films pretending to be? Looking at The Suicide Squad and WW84, one wonders. (TSS had to grow on me a bit, and I always liked WW84, but they're such drastic departures from their predecessors that it smacks of desperation to move away from the tone of two films that both made good money, which is strange.) WB needs to get out of its own way. There are signs of life, like the good critical buzz generated by The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker recently--who knows? Maybe it'll get better. My only point of dissent is the notion that the DCEU was "rushed". Compared to the path leading up to The Avengers, it's not so far off. You had Iron Man, Iron Man 2 (which introduced Black Widow and had a plot somewhat similar to BvS in the broad strokes), Thor (which introduced Hawkeye), The Incredible Hulk, and Captain America. Avengers was the sixth movie in, but there were no standalone movies/stories for two of their members until 2021. Just as Seven Samurai didn't need standalone films for each samurai, Justice League didn't need standalone films for each hero. JL was fifth in the lineup, and Bats, Supes, and WW had been introduced. It was safe to say that DC's heroes were well known enough that a Flash or Cyborg movie wasn't strictly needed for audiences to understand who they were. Anybody familiar with the Arrowverse or Teen Titans wouldn't need an origin story for them. Still, the way ZSJL set it up, it would feed right into having Cyborg, Green Lantern, Aquaman and Flash movies afterwards. Had they stayed the course, I bet those would've been well received. Yet another Batman movie wasn't needed, though it would have been amazing, no doubt. Wonder Woman and Superman both had their standalone movies. It would have been a unique mixture that preserved a shared universe without trying to absolutely mimic Marvel, plus all of it would have fed right into Justice League 2 and 3. All that said, I like both franchises, and I don't think it ought to be either/or. I hope that in a few more years, there will be some great stuff coming from both studios, no matter what.

Disney/Marvel Studios aren't always "high and mighty" they stepped in during filming of X-Men: Dark Phoenix originally, Dark Phoenix had Skrulls as the main villain and an explosive ending in space with the Skrull armada, resulting in a final battle on the front lawn of a government building Marvel Studios decided to take this plot device, use it for their Ms Marvel film and told Fox to rewrite/reshoot the ending and change the villain Marvel Studios purposely making a Marvel film look bad to fans just to make it "easier" for them to reboot the entire X-Men franchise? maybe

This video is so good, bruh. Really well made and I agree with the consistency part. A cinematic universe should have a consistent tone and style. You can't make it really dark in one movie and do a switch-a-ru in the next movie. And most importantly, listen to your audience. If a character is handled poorly and want said character improve in the next movie, listen to them and do it. If a movie is extremely dark, like Batman Returns type of dark, and want the next movie to be just a tiny bit less darker, guess what? Listen to your audience and do it. Your audience, aka the consumer are the one paying tickets to see your movie. You can't please them all, sure, but make it very clear to them that, yes you are listening. Being listened to and understood by those who control a massive cinematic universe is something that don't happen too often, but when it does, man does it feel good 😌

and this is why i’ve been pushing for Snyder’s Vision since after JL 2017, he had a CONSISTENT plan for DC and WB just dropped him in a snap because of their own bs they started(BvS tampering) and I even thought at that time it was Zack’s fault but turns out I was mad at the wrong person.

Had Christian Bale’s Batman been the official Batman of the DCEU fans would’ve got incentive to watch the movies. Fans fell in love with RDJ’s Iron Man and it was this love which made them watch Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger. Sadly Bale’s version was winded up before DCEU could be started.

It might be unfair, but if Marvel anounces a project I get really excited. If DC anounces a project I reflexively push out my excitement. Not because I don't like it, I do, but I'm never sure wether it will be ever made. I don't think this is my fault or bias, I'm just burned one to many times.

WB is an extremely reactive company. Instead of taking the time to confront problems and criticism, they immediately switch gears. It's that constant tone switching that makes it near impossible for me to immerse myself in any of the DCEU movies. Combined with their complete lack of understanding of their fanbase, it creates a depthless universe with no payoff. I love DC characters, and to see them butchered hurts me more than I can describe.

It's very depressing because I don't really like the MCU's silly tone, I don't hate it, but I'd much rather have serious DC films to go along side it

I love both DC and Marvel - I want them both to be equally successful.

if we think about the current scenario, DCEU can be merged into the "snyderverse" even now... If WB wants to focus on individual stories, they can do that and rebuild the hype... then snyder can do the darkseid invasion stories with some adjustments whenever they want🤩🤩... yes Michael Keaton and Affleck situation can be a mess but obviously there can be some solution for that too🤔

Agree 100%. The constant change of tone is the biggest factor with DCEU’s consistency. Let’s hope the it gets restored to its original vision.

Everything you said in this video I been saying in my mind!!! The reason I liked the tone within both the mcu and dceu is because I fell in love with the tones of both, I fell in love with the tone of the avengers and loved the consistent tone after, loved the tone within man of steel but did a complete 180 with josstice league. The mcu is important to me because ever since the avengers I’ve had the same feeling with all the other mcu films, sadly can’t say the same for the dceu, I hope the snyderverse gets restored

Also because one tried to be like the other instead of being unique.

At least Zack Snyder’s Justice League won an Oscar.

Love this channel so much...fast updated dceu and mcu news ...and very much trusted

Funny fact is now DC is actually winning now that it's out of WB's hands. It was winning under Snyder's universe as well, but those snotty WB executives had to take it from him just to make it worst. Now that Discovery along with Snyder are on the same page, and finally the same company things are really starting to look up.

This entire video and you didn’t mention the most important factor…DC movie regardless of tone and consistency SUCKS!!…this is from someone that is in love with the justice league cartoons, I even still watch episodes…even movies that are supposedly good like the first Wonder Woman, for me was decent at best..I hated Shazam. Personally I think DC fans arguing about which version of the verse is better is taking away from that fact that both version isn’t good and was never going to be…the best thing they can do for DC now is to just scrap everything…wait a few years and start again..heck even starting a verse of the latest Batman movie would be better…it’s not a coincidence that every DC movie not part of the DCEU is better. DC have no excuses I’m sorry. Just look how successful basically every one of their cartoon version of DC heroes are.

Yes, all that is true, the lack of consistency, the interference of Warner Brothers, their rush and lack of faith in the projects and directors, all that is true. But, I also think that from the beginning the general audience rejected Zack Snyder's vision, I must clarify that I'm a Zack Snyder fan, I love his movies and I hope they restore the Snyderverse, I really want to see Justice League part 2 and JL part 3 ... but also I have to recognize that most people did not like the first DCEU movies, that vision, that tone, they saw them as very dark, grim and depressing. I think people got too used to the humor and campiness of the Marvel movies, that when they went to watch Man of Steel and especially after seeing BvS, they said: "But what is this?. That's not how superhero movies are supposed to be, this is not like a Marvel movie. I don't like this". So they rejected the DCEU movies from the start. In my opinion, the only way for DC to be just as successful as Marvel, is if they announce that they're going to completely reboot their cinematic universe with a completely new cast of actors and actresses, that they are going to start again with a clean slate, but this time they're going to take their time, no rush, they will have a plan and they will follow that plan, and that their new movies are going to be just like the Marvel movies. (if they do this, obviously I hope they do it AFTER they released JL 2 and JL 3, I hope that they allow Zack Snyder to finish telling his story, let him complete his vision, and if I can dream that they release Man of Steel 2 and 3 as well, give a complete trilogy to Henry Cavill, he deserves it). Of course, if all DC movies are like Marvel movies, we won't have the best movies we could have, they won't have the same quality, they would not be as interesting, because we would end up watching movies that follow the same formula, a formula that has been proven to work, but just a formula nonetheless, and all the movies would be the same. But sadly that's what most people like, that's what the majority of the audience want to see... they just want Marvel movies with a lot of comedy. As I said before, people are too used to the Marvel formula, that they will reject everything that is different. Most people don't read comics and they don't understand that DC and Marvel are different companies. They believe that DC movies have to be the same as Marvel movies, they expect them to be the same.

I'm kind of glad DC didn't take off in a way. We probably wouldn't have stuff like The Suicide Squad, Joker or The Batman if it had. They still put an emphasis on "single" movies and directors visions, in that regard I think they're actually more "successful" than Marvel, who have to kind of crush everything into the same mass produced soup to fit a shared universe.

Very well summarised .. we need consistency.. snyderverse is the only available potential and fan liking to reach a consistent state.. hope discovery understand this.. Love and Respect to Marvel movies.

Really good video. Thank you.

4:53 I completely agree with the DC movies mentioned that were tampered by the studio. BvS, Suicide Squad, and Justice League were definitely faced with studio interference. However, I would also include Wonder Woman (2017) here too. The No Man’s Land scene was something the studio wanted to remove but with great difficulty, Patty Jenkins and Zack Snyder persuaded the studio to keep it. Also, the ending of that movie was also tampered with as Patty Jenkins had a different ending in mind and was forced by the studio to change it to the one we saw back in 2017. Therefore, Wonder Woman (2017) would also be listed among the movies tampered with by the studio.

Love the thumbnail , The Souls of the two universes ❤️

Love the content your making keep up the good work

Can you please make one on George Miller's cancelled justice league mortal movie and how DC's cinematic universe could have been if that movie was the start of DC's cinematic universe.

I like Marvel and DC. I think the DCEU would have been better if WB was not involved. Both had a plan but one company did not allow the plan to be executed. I like Marvel but my main problem with then is the same old MCU formula for almost every film. It gets quite repetitive lol but it’s great for just the casual movie watcher. I never really noticed it growing up as I would goto the movies with my mom and have a good time. But when I rewatched them overtime. I slowly realized it. Its not bad because it certainly gets people to watch them. The one thing that also disappoints me is how overhyped some of the MCU films get. There are some great MCU movies but also a lot of mediocre ones but they all get hyped up to be like top tier comic book movies.

If Warner brothers trust on their directors so maybe their directors can improve their mistakes from previous films for example Zack Snyder has improved his mistake in Zack Snyder justice league yeah his previous films like man of steel and bvs not worked well but it doesn't mean whole movies of marvel worked so well to entertain audience or critics like the incredible Hulk,thor the dark world,the eternals,black widow,age of Ultron and captain marvel but marvel studios didn't reboot anything and by trusting on Kevin feige they continue with their storylines in mcu. I am both Marvel and DC fan but feeling sad for DCEU is not on the level of MCU but I am hoping after discovery merger dceu directors could get freedom to direct their movies by their own no matter if some of them don't go well they just need to improve their mistakes.

and this is exactly why the dceu should #restorethesnyderverse because zack snyder did have a consistent plan but wb ruined it

One was successful and the other was sabotaged by the other one that was successful. But we won't have that convo.

MCU is better, but 2021 is the best year for DCEU "Zack Synder's Justice League" and "The Suicide Squad" are just amazing

I love your content. Keep up the good work.

Completely agree. Any work should have the same voice that stays the same throughout but also is distinct from the others. Notice also that the DCEU doesn’t seem to have a counterpart to Kevin Feige (who is also a huge fan of both).

Marvel slapping DC: that’s how you make a cinematic universe

MCU has a consistent (more lighthearted) tone but nonetheless each film has its own distinct elements. There are some mediocre MCU films but I did enjoy each one due their contribution to the overall storyline and got really excited to see them in theatre. Not so much for the DCEU. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a die hard MCU fan that hates DC (I know nearly nothing about it so my opinion about it is not very profound). There were some DCEU films that I really enjoyed and some are probably better concerning technique etc than MCU films. But I really really loved this unfolding cinematic universe that Marvel was able to build. That’s why I can overlook the fact that some movies are just mediocre. I think I rewatched the whole MCU at least 3-4 times but I still enjoy it and I’m very excited for all the new shows and films to come out. That’s something the DCEU was not able to spark in me. I rewatch a few of these films sometimes too but there are also many of these that I didn’t even see at all since they didn’t catch me beforehand.

beautifully explained! 🙌🏻

I'm totally agree. The consistency is escencial!

I believe one of the biggest advantages Marvel had over DC was the lack of history with their collection of characters versus DC. Most people weren't familiar with Iron Man, Captain America or Thor and almost no one knew who the Guardians of the Galaxy were or that a character like Ant-Man could be interesting or entertaining, but Marvel pulled it off and smashed box office records in the process. In contrast DC were working with characters with over 50 years of history and adaptations, meaning audiences went into each movie with a preconceived notion and idea of that character. It also doesn't help that Nolan's Batman trilogy had only just ended a few years prior to Man of Steel and BvS, so when we see Batman killing any and everyone in his way it's a bit off-putting and shocking especially when the reason(s) for why he operates this way isn't completely explained. I suppose seeing Robin's memorialized and vandalized vest was the reason Bruce went over the edge but the average movie goer likely doesn't know who Robin is or his importance to the story. Clearly comic book geeks get it but when you're making a movie for general audiences you have to assume that your viewer knows nothing, so a little backstory is necessary. The reaction from comic book geeks/nerds would be, "Oh, okay. So that's the direction they're going with in this version of Batman" and just go along for the ride. Frankly it's pretty shameful that a movie like Guardians of the Galaxy could earn more (domestically) than a movie starring Superman and Batman. Two of the most famous superheroes in history. That alone is proof that the DCEU has been an unmitigated disaster.

So true consistency is the key

Hopefully, when the merger is complete and the Snyderverse will be restored, I just know it will! DC will get back on track and maybe WB will stop interfering with the movies and the directors work #RestoreTheSnyderverse

WB doesn't know how to produce DC films. They ruined Suicide Squad, BvS, and JL. They tried to make SS like Deadpool by adding more comedic humors. They trimmed down BvS lengths, which left a lot of plot holes. Worst of all, they removed Zack Snyder from JL to Joss Whedon, removed 80% of the scenes from the original cut, made into a Avengers-like rip off, and trimmed down to 2 hours length.

Well said! Also, today's Zack Snyder's Justice League Cheer Moment was a major win for the Legion! #RESTORETHESNYDERVERSE

I could understand the whole consistency thing but I felt there was a point in marvel where everything felt very bland until releasing GOTG Ant man and thor Ragnarok

I’m someone who respects ✊both brands I love superhero’s growing up all my life and heart ❤️ I want both too succeed and at the same time we all see these movies and we all like one over the other and we all say what we want about these films as long as were respectful no matter how they turn out be

Because Disney didn't get cold feet at the very first misstep in their movies, Warner on the other hand though...

MCU treat the fans like family as Mr. Stan Lee did to his creations and host very good Live events with cast or without cast engaging with Fans continuously WB's DCEU does not even care , Fans had to carry the franchise forward instead of the Studio

WB shared blame no doubt but let's not forget how divisive and controversial Snyder's movies were and still are it's a mix of factors overall I remember how a lot of people were done with the franchise after suicide squad and bvs

i love how this conversation is always a thing

Zack Snyder Is The Blueprint #RestoreTheSnyderVerse

I’ll admit that I like every DCEU movie besides the two that were drastically ruined by studio interference, even despite the drastic changes in tone. I do still wish they stuck to the original plan, but there’s no point crying over spilled milk. I just hope Warners Discovery does a better job at having a unified vision.

Loved the dceu kick off with man of steel and it was a good start. It grossed more than the first iron man, hulk, the first thor, and captain America, so as far as starts go, it banked them the money. The foundation was good, not amazing as some critics and fans were split. I was mega hyped for bvs, but if I'm honest it was a let down personally out the cinema, watching the extended version though I felt was good. I actually enjoyed suicide squad, But then hearing all the rumours zack was fired and Warner used the excuse his daughter passed away to hide behind, then hearing the suicide squad was changed quite dramatically, the ending of wonder woman was apparently changed, cavills mustachgate, it all just felt dusjointed and really just cannon by justice league. I absolutely loved the snyder cut though,and it got me hyped for more.

Exactly. Like it or not, people would have went with the DCEU by the time the Snyder made JL and the characters were established. People would understand that the DCEU was taking a chapter approach to the movies. In other words, Man of Steel was chapter one in a 5 chapter story arc for Superman. That arc happens to involve the JL, but it makes little sense that certain characters would exist, and the others would hang back until they finished having their adventures. If you have a world ending event in MOS, of course you will draw out others. Of course Batman would be concerned. I never understood other heroes hanging back, like where were the Eternals during Endgame? And the 5 film arc would be one long movie and everything would branch out from it. And you'd have solo movies with characters you know from JL. It was a unique approach that differentiated itself from what Marvel was doing. The problem is that Marvel was so successful that it set a standard in which every universe had to follow or audiences would reject it. That's the number one critique. " They should have all had solo films...they didn't earn a JL." But really, there weren't that many films before The Avengers and they weren't all great. Marvel just stuck with it. Had DC stuck with it, they would have had a competing standard, instead of having people say " they need to do what Marvel does, but then complain that DC is copying Marvel. Couple that with people not liking the controversial decisions Snyder made with his characters and fans were already ready to hate it. People went into BvS already wanting to hate it because Superman killed. The studio chopped up the film and it justified the hate. You can live with characters that were different, but not a choppy story that made little sense because 30 mins had been cut. I much prefer a director like Snyder willing to take big swings and miss that to give me a cookie cutter formula. Do all of Zack's decisions pan out? Of course not. But when they do, they do in a big way. The guy knows what he wants and how to get it. And people are still talking about MoS and BvS, whereas many Marvel movies fell into the abyss because most were simply commercials for the next movie.

8:53 I think something similar happened to Thor in the MCU. Marvel didn’t stick to the original version of the character they presented to us in Thor 1 and Dark World, instead, they allowed Taika Waititi to change it completely cause the og version was not working. As far as I can see and what the numbers show, most people prefer Taika’s take on the character, but every once in a while I still find someone saying how much they preferred the old more formal and serious Thor, and sometimes people fight about it. So yes, I guess you’re right on this, when you give the audience more than one option, change the tone of the narrative, you ultimately break the union of a fandom cause people will always have different opinions and preferences about which version was their favourite.

If both succeeded it would've been fantastic! On the one hand you have funny one-liner superheroes to entertain those who want something funny and not so serious in tone, and on the other hand you would have a serious and artistic tone for those who want something more serious and deep. There would've been something for everybody.

i think that the DCEU in 2022 has more hope and a brighter future than the MCU its almost like its balancing out

Very well said...

I love both DC and Marvel. They have massive impact on my life. My happiest moments were used to be associated with those characters. But growing up as a DC fan it is kinda hurtful to me to see the condition of DCEU. It feels like one of my children doing great and another one is constantly failing. I hope DCEU revive quick. One thing I can suggest is that keep Snyderverse continue along with keeping Aquaman, Shazam,Wonderwoman,BlackAdam in the same timeline. There would be another timeline for Battinson, another for phoneix's joker, Keaton's universe, Bale's universe etc and leading to all multiverse United to fight against Darksied.

The DCU will have it's day, just be patient! #RELEASETHESNYDERVERSE 😎👍

WB is cutting his own legs by his own axe. 😑

Mcu is targeted for kids and adults. DC is for the adults, not so much the kids. I like it that way.

You nailed it exactly!

Great analysis. I would also add that it was the negative corporate culture at WB that allowed people like Whedon and Johns to flourish and the toxic politicking to be common practice (this makes everything including the creative space unstable and results in the inconsistency in the end product). Marvel was set up as a well oiled machine, with everyone knowing the vision, who sets the vision, and how they (business and creatives alike) contribute.

Biggest problem with WB is that they don't give movie responsibility to a director who is super passionate about DC comics. Zack Snyder is perfect example. Now many so called nerds complained about Zack Snyder that he doesn't read comics. But he actually does. It's way more than other directors. Who is the last director of DC movies that actually read DC comics. I don't remember anyone. Nolan was completely different. Other one tried to do Superman Returns copying Cristopher Reeves'SUPERMAN movies instead of actually reading mountain of Superman comics. If any writer reads mountain of Superman comics, they have multiple ideas about Superman. But no. Man of Steel is still the best Superman movie ever. Zack Snyder reads comics, he had certain ideas to make DC universe creating other charcters but WB executives thought that they know better and screwed up everything. Tell me something who is one director other than Zack Snyder who is very passionate about DC charcters other than Superman and Batman??? Who? Only one. Zack Snyder. Some parts of DC fandom is sooo dumb. I gotta give credit where it's due. Marvel fandoms are better than this and they understand if any director is passionate like Zack Snyder for Marvel comics which is Kevin Feige. Where is the respect of Zack Snyder from so called nerd crowd. This so called nerd crowd actually don't read DC comics or only read few and think that they know everything when they know very little and yet they over scrutinized everything. Zack Snyder have tremendous love for DC universe. I have never seen any other director from Hollywood who has so much passion for DC universe other than Zack Snyder. It's really shame.

Best explanation I've heard and it's just what I've been saying for years.

Hopefully this WB Discovery merge will give us more consistency.

The one problem with DC is that they wanna spend time around the villains rather than the heroes. Don't know if I will watch grodd, canary,Deadshot,zatanna,gl in one universe 🥺

The weird and sad thing is that the Transformers reboot films might head into DCEU's direction. After The Last Knight flopped, Bumblebee came out a year later and became a success that Hasbro declared it a separate continuity from Bayformers. Unfortunately, the second film (which is Transformers: Rise of the Beasts and released in 2023) jumped straight away into semi-adapting Beast Wars (while wasting the potential of the Maximals aside from maybe Optimus Primal and Airazor) and introduced Unicron earlier instead of slowly building him up as an overarching threat. Not helping is that despite Bumblebee being the starting point for a newer continuity standing out from Bay's version, Rise of the Beasts tried to cash in on Bayformers nostalgia hard. And the final scene (not counting the mid-credits where Mirage is repaired and able to transform back which is good imo) for RotB is straight up a teaser of GI Joe.

If a film treats itself as a form of art, it won't care about money-making more than quality. *Box-Office Money or Streaming figures or popularity level do not define the quality of a film or a TV series.* Otherwise, money makers like Endgame and Avatar would be better movies than films with true cinema in them like The Godfather or TDK or Interstellar or The Irishman. Just because MCU's popcorn movies (not all but most of them are) make much more money than other studios' films, it doesn't mean MCU films are always better from a CINEMAtic POV. These words are coming from a guy who loves both, Marvel and DC, equally (even my two most favourite superheroes are from Marvel: Cap and Daredevil), but I understand that BOTH, Marvel and DC, are neither 'perfect' nor 'bad'.... but still many MCU toxic FANBOIS (not good FANS) hate DC and act like MCU is totally perfect. Tbh, DC & DCEU haters are blind & toxic and hate it for no reason. Let's put DC as a whole aside (since it's truly excellent for most people, without any doubt) for a sec, and tell me how many DCEU movies are bad except only 2-3 movies of it. So haters, what's your fuckin problem?! Accept that y'all are just blind haters who hate it because others hate it (for no reason). Snyder's DCEU trilogy (MoS, Ultimate Edition of BvS, ZS'sJL) is one of the bests, btw, #RestoreTheSnyderVerse. WW and Gunn's TSS and Peacemaker were excellent, Aquaman and Shazam! were great, BoP was pretty decent, at least not BAD like Josstice League. Upcoming projects seems truly amazing too.

what if feige worked for dc and started the dceu a long time ago.

Tbh I am NOT a fan of Synder’s version of the heroes I grew up with but I do respect that he stayed with his vision and didn’t trail off. I just hope to one day see my favorite heroes in their purest, truest form on the big screen.

Superman is the face of dc. They screwed cavil, and we all saw it. It was gross

And with the consistency of the MCU, it has been using various film genre: war drama, scifi, political thriller, space opera, coming of age, heist, sitcom... action, drama and comedy in every movie. The latest DCEU trailer, Black Adam, bores me to death. And I'm fed up with Batman's reset again and again.

I’m pretty sure consistency would not have helped in this case. The initial tone and mood of the DCEU was polarizing at best, which was already not doing well for them.

1-MCU the give what fans wants and DCU didn't do that. 2- MCU give full permission to director to make movie what they want but DCU and Warner brothers interfere in movies and didn't see directors vision.

One of the reasons is MCU has a own semi independent studio : Mervel Studios DCEU doesn't