Favorite funny Klingon moment… in Generations, one of the Duras sisters yells, “Fire at will!” And then the shot cuts immediately to Riker. Makes me laugh every time.
Kurge possibly has my favourite lines of Star Trek. Not only does he have the "Because you wish it" line but also when Kirk points out that the planet is destroying itself, Kurge doesn't look away simply says "Yes, exhilarating isn't it?" and keeps on advancing on Kirk. Followed by "If we don't help each other we will die here." "Perfect. Then that's the way it shall be." Never taking his eyes off of Kirk. Even though the plant is destroying it self and could take them both at any second, he manages to establish himself as the real threat.
Personally, when it comes to Klingons and their forehead ridges, it's not that I think it's some kind of documentary. That would be stupid. But I like when my fiction is internally consistent and big changes in design like that annoy me when there's no explanation. It makes me feel like the production team don't actually care about the world the story is set in.
@@Crazaelthe reason they gave them forehead ridges is because they finally had a budget to make their aliens look alien, unlike just putting grease paint on the actors. They also probably realized that it was kind of racist to paint white actors brown and call them the worst enemies of the Federation. However the change that Disco made to them didn't make much sense because by then Klingons had been solidified as looking a certain way for decades. Also the actors said the prosthetics covered nearly all of their faces so they couldn't really move and therefore act with their faces. I think that and the fan's reactions is what made them go back to TNG klingons in SNW.
@@coletteb.8889 oh no, that it was done because now they have a budget for makeup and cosmetics makes perfect sense. Thats not what im talking about. What i am talking about is why i care about design changes. I dont care because some idiotic idea that i think its a documentary. I care because internal consistency makes a piece of fiction more enjoyable.
I'd like to go to the alternate universe where Nimoy had his way and Edward James Olmos played Kruge but I somehow feel his performance wouldn't have been as much fun.
I had no idea Larroquette was a fan. Years after his appearance in Star Trek, he would appear on Night Court. In one episode, he mocks a group of Star Trek fans. Long after that, he’d appear as a regular in Boston Legal reuniting with Bill Shatner.
@@BigNoseDog The writers for the show probably knew he was a fan. Sort of like how The Simpsons writers did an episode a year or two back where Lisa and Marge become addict to true crime podcasts, knowing full well Yearedly Smith has (or at least had) one.
I too had a Klingon Dictionary as a kid, and while I never learned to speak Klingon, I still loved that it existed. You don't _need_ to make up a whole language for your alien race, but it's something all the best sci-fi and fantasy shows/films have done, so I'm confident it's an important ingredient in their success. It adds verisimilitude, and more importantly, it seems to be something a lot of fans _really like_ about sci-fi and fantasy stories.
I got to see Star Trek VI in the theater when it premiered. Damn, was that an awesome time! I do like that the Klingons in that are somewhat varied. They're less of a monolithic culture in that movie than in most of their other outings. It's nice to see variety, depth, and some nuance amongst Star Trek aliens.
Actually, in Generations, the Enterprise blew up Chang's ship from the previous movie in an obvious re-use of footage. Guess they blew most of the budget on the Stellar Cartography scene?
The Klingon Ambassador might be my favorite. Sure Chang and Kruge are great, no doubt, but the Ambassador not only gets that "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives," line, he only moments before counters Sarek with the great line, "Vulcans are well known as the intellectual puppets of this Federation!" That's an underrated line, but so great.
I also liked the Klingon Ambassador in Star Trek IV. His highlights include excellent line delivery on "Starfleet Regulations? That's Outrageous!" "Vulcans are the intellectual puppets of the Federation!" and "There shall be no peace, so long as Kirk lives." And then some background character shouts above the loud crowd saying to him, "YOU POMPOUS ASS!"
Funny enough the Klingon Dictionary had the opposite effect on a 14 year old me! I was in the hospital often as a kid and constant airing of syndicated Trek shows became my go to show to keep me company. Getting a copy of the dictionary as a gift, which I read backwards and forwards, was a key pointing realizing: “oh crap, Im a Star Trek nerd!? A deep DEEP Trek nerd!? Hmm… Ive figured out who I am! Qapla! 😜
5:04 I mean, I find that sort of thing to be super interesting. I really like it when fantasy and sci-fi cultures are given their own languages, even if those languages are extremely thin. I feel it helps make things more enjoyable and immersive. Especially when I can start to recognize words that are being spoken.
0:26 I recently rewatched Lower Decks and decided to ignore anything that was a reference, and it was actually really good. And so far season 4 is pretty light (relatively) on references! Though one episode literally takes place on voyager... but they do something fun with it I think. And the moopsy is a classic.
The more I hear about Nemesis the happier I am that I never watched it. My philosophy on Trek is to enjoy the parts I like and ignore the parts I don't. (Without being butt-hurt about it - New Trek isn't really for me but I don't feel like they OWE me a darn thing). Good video!
over the many years that Steve Shives has been making videos about Star Trek, his best line to date is "EFFING THERMIANS WERE NOT THE TARGET AUDIENCE!"
Steve, would you ever consider doing a video of notable Romulans of Star Trek? They have got to be the hands-down the most underutilized of the main Trek aliens--so much so they wouldn't even need a series of videos; just one! Seriously, outside of a few peripheral characters in Star Trek: Picard there have been no Romulans as main characters or supporting characters in Trek in its nearly 60 year history! The unnamed Romulan commanders from "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident", Admiral Jarok, Sela (okay, maybe not Sela), Senator 'It's a Faaaaake' Vreenak, Telek R'mor (from VGR's "Eye of the Needle") are worthy of Shive-sian recognition. Romulans need love, Steve. Romulans need love.
I really like the idea of random Klingons popping up in other films with no context. Just imagining Heywood from the Shawshank Redemption, incidentally played by the bloke that played Sloan in DS-9, being cast as a Klingon but with no one commenting on it or making any reference to it and the film carrying on as normal. It would be too predictable if warden Hadley was cast as a Klingon.
I really like seeing the poster on your wall saying Diversity is Celebrated which is perfect considering how the Klingons have changed over the last 60 years 👍🏼
I have been a huge Trekkie since I was a kid. In junior high, I made friends with a boy whose mom spoke Klingon-and I remember thinking because of that alone, she was the coolest adult I knew. 😂 (this came up because I saw the Klingon Dictionary at their house)
They had those Klingon dictionaries on the paperback spinner racks at Wal-Mart during the 90s. I believe they were organized there with other "non-fiction" and self-help stuff.
Great video, as always! One comment with regards to Worf being in Nemesis: An issue (a minor one in an ocean of issues) that I have with that movie is that it basically pretends DS9 didn't exist. They did a good job of bringing Worf over in First Contact, as you mentioned, but then in Nemesis, not only is Worf no longer an Ambassador, but no one even mentions Jadzia Dax. It wouldn't be much to put it one line in the whole bloated movie. "Hey man, sorry the love of your life was murdered by a lizard fascist who was possessed by a Bajoran demon..." It would have shown some semblance of recognition that DS9 did in fact happen, but also offer a bit of tenderness and a sense of family for these characters. An acknowledgement that the crew of the Enterprise had lives off the ship and that the crew mates still cared for one another, even if they didn't see each other every day. Would have been a nice touch. Anyways, awesome video and looking forward to the next one! Cheers!
I mean the movie starts with a wedding, so there is a good excuse for him to be there. Just put him in ambassador robes at the start, and have Riker ask him if he wants one last hurrah before going back to talking all day.. "Actually, I find the verbal sparing surprisingly invigorating."
The thing is, getting Worf into Nemesis is trivially easy. "Worf is on the ship for the wedding of two of his oldest friends and sticks around when shenanigans kick off because being an ambassador is boring and he's looking for a little excitement." How easy is that?
Lloyd is my favorite part of Search for Spock. Even with the whole getting trigger happy with his underling for being trigger happy. It kinda sent a mixed signal.
Jesus, what's your problem with Lower Decks!? I know you just think it's all reference humor, but damn I think that's making you miss so much of the show! I honestly think it's the best of the new Trek shows.
I really like Lower Decks, and I’m not sure I understand what the distaste is. But, I really enjoy your videos, and this one included. Just give Lower Decks a bit of a break, there’s a lot of love the creators of that show put into it.
Shocked that you missed that Klaa was not only emasculated for his ST:V shenanigans, but was demoted to court room translator in ST:VI. That's the same actor translating Klingon to English in Kirk's trial.
OH SNAP!! The person who played the Klingon judge was the voice for Phones, Captain Troy Tempest's copilot, in Jerry Anderson's "Stingray' Super Marionation (think "Thunderbirds are go!") television series! Plus, the recently late Phyllis Coats (October 11, 2023) said, "Oh, hello Marvin," to him (over the phone) in the season 1 "Adventures of Superman" episode: "Runaway Robot!"
Nothing much new or unexpected for me. Good review of the klingons in the movies. And hey, I got the German version of the Klingon dictionary as a teen as well. Haven't done much reading then either, but it helped a bit in making me understand how languages [can] work.
It’s funny that you should mention the German-Klingon dictionary, because I often tell people that the sound of the Klingon language is similar to German, with the hard “sch” sound. The only Klingon word I know personally is Qapla’, which has that sound at the end. BYW, Steve, you COMPLETELY left that sound off of your “Qapla’” at the end of the video (32:41)!
I love tick infested Targs... slaughtering a Minn'hor... and bloodwine. I never realized the Klingon Judge was the same actor. Thanks for the deep cut, Steve! You've been hitting the bloodwine again!
Out of story reason (i've read somewhere, may not be accurate) why the the klingons look different in ST:TMP. That's what they were supposed to look like (well, similar to that) in TOS, but budgetery issues prevented it from happening. That makeup stuff can be expensive. So instead we go the TOS klingons, a look pretty much improvised on the spot by John Colicos and his assigned makeup artist on the first day of shooting Errand of Mercy. When the motion picture came around, they saw it as an opportunity to give the Klingons the look they were meant to have from the start. My own head canon was that, just as with humans, the klingon species has different races, each with their own distict look, culture and language, and after coming up with that, I just sat back and enjoyed the rest of the movie, a lot.
Racial differences could have been a pretty decent in-story explanation. Since Klingon leadership is partially based on family lines, racially segregated ship crews aren't unreasonable. (Especially when only seeing bridge crew.) The ruling clans change somewhat often, with all their internal battles, so the Federation only interacting with a single race of Klingons for decades at a time *would* make _some_ sense. Especially since Star Trek episodes only deal with a narrow slice of the galactic population. After all, these are the Federation Flagship crews on the frontiers of space or on important missions in conflict areas, not a random sampling of every-day situations. [ Out of the many billions of Klingons, how many times do we meet military commanders, diplomats, and the Chancellor? Have we _ever_ met (for lack of a better word) a 'commoner'? ] It might even still be possible to make this cannon in the future. Every time someone visits the Klingon homeworld on the show, they visit the capitol. All it would take is for an episode to have an away team visit a smaller city on the other side of the planet and show examples of every variation of Klingon going about their business in the background. Ideally, depending on which series does it, no one even mentions it. They're all just Klingons and there's no reason to acknowledge it in the dialog. Imaginary plot hole closed and nerds can geek out about it *without* slowing down the _story._ A side-effect, however, would be that when Worf is asked about TOS Klingons in the DS9 Trials and Tribble-ations episode, his response might seem mildly racist. "We do not discuss it with outsiders." Then again, it could be clan loyalty pride & shame at play, for him, rather than racism.
IRL, you're right about why they're different. ST Enterprise came up with an in-universe retcon for why they are changed in tos. Some people hated the retcon, but I low-key loved it
Nemesis really should have had an easy time fitting in Worf. The Romulans having a coup is a good reason to include the Klingons in the discussion and Worf showing up with a mini fleet of warbirds care of Chancelor Martok would be fun. And it would not feel out of place even for audience members who had not been following DS9.
As Nemesis and Insurrection take place during the Dominion War, Id have lived to have seen Martok in at least one of them in a semi-significant role to perhaps make watching them a bit more bearable.
@@ShikiKiryu Insurrection takes place in 2375, near the end of or immediately after the Dominion War. Nemesis takes place in 2379, 4 years afterward. 🖖😎👍
Steve, I love your videos. How long does production take on an episode? From writing, shooting, to editing? You always have amazing pictures as stingers and that research time to grab all of those images must be intense. Thank you for all of your great work.
12:00 One of my favorite parts in all the movies. Spock: You are his superior officer. Korrd: I am a foolish old man. Spock: Damn you, sir, you will try.
Kevin Pollack has a wonderful bit as part of a routine, where he talks about Lloyd as Kruge. How he had trouble imagining "Reverend Jim" as a Klingon. Typing it in text won't do it justice, so, I recommend finding a clip of it.
Great video. I'm a little disappointed there was no mention of the Klingon president of Earth in VI, played by sci-fi and Star Trek veteran Kurtwood Smith.
I've always called John Schuck's Klingon Ambassador character what someone in the gallery yells out while he's storming off in Star trek IV: You Pompous Ass!
I actually didn't see a Star Trek Movie in a theater until Star Trek (2009) came out. I had a poor childhood. There was one exception, and that was Star Trek 3. I didn't really watch it. I cried through it. It's a bit embarrassing now, but I was like 5 years old at the time. I'm guessing it was because it was too scary, wasn't a cartoon, or both. I think the Trek goddesses forgave we because it wasn't long before I absolutely LOVED Star Trek. I started out watching the original series in syndication around the 1986 time frame.
I find it funny how in First Contact Riker asks Worf if he remembers how to fire phasers. Especially when he does use the Enterprise’s weapons it’s just torpedoes…
This was a great video. I never saw back to the Future until much later, so I always knew Christopher Lloyd as the guy from Angels in the outfield and the search for Spock.
Am I the only one to notice that Star Trek took a deuce on Gus Grissom? I think he deserved better. A science vessel? Really? Come on. At least a Constitution class vessel. Sigh. Great Video Steve. Loved it!
The first draft of First Contact was going to have two DS9 cast members. Colm Meaney was going to be in it. But Ira Behr said: we can spare ONE of our regulars for a few weeks, not two. The only 100% necessary O'Brien scene was rewritten for Barclay.
YES!!!! My two favorite Non-Worf Klingons ever! Chang and Kruge forever! Chancellor Gorkon is also a fantastic character, and a wonderful foil of a typical Klingon. Also, I had forgotten Maltz is John Larroquette. Wow...and I'm pretty sure this is also the hey day of Night Court, or just as it was starting.
Was legit watching nemesis today and my phone alerted me My uber eats driver was here and I said out loud to myself "oh God, I hope he doesn't see I'm watching nemesis"
The Problem with Worf in Fist Contact, was NOONE Else from DS9 was with him...Sisco sure woulda stayed behind, but No Bashir? Dax? O Brian?... I know it was $$ concerns and probably Contract stuff....but they didn't even MENTION O'Brian
Kruge IMO is the prefect TOS Era Klingon. No fear. No empathy. Only interested in finding power that will allow him to destroy the federation & rule over all & will take it by any means. Kills his girlfriend because she looked at the tape. Kills the gunner because he blew up the ship instead of disabling it so they could take hostages. Just a monster
"Yawn" is the perfect response to the non-stop doomsday plots by vengeful moustache-twirling villains of pretty much all of the post-TOS movies invoking Wrath of Khan.
One of the best scenes of Star Trek VI is the dinner scene because they quote Shakespeare. How come the Klingons have come to respect Shakespeare as something worthy of their own culture? What does the Federation have of Klingon culture? Then shortly after the "To be or not to be" quotations comes the conflict between Chekov and Azetbur. The point is truly lost on the humans at the table. They may have done more for this Klingons in this film than in three seasons of the Original Series.
Good video, and a nice sequel to your "Klingons of TOS" video .... I was kind of surprised you didn't mention Torg, who appeared to have been Kruge's first officer, and seems to provide a more rational counter-point for his captain ("If it is scientists you seek...") OTOH, it's also a bit surprising that Torg wasn't clear on what Kruge was seeking, so maybe Kruge would have benefitted from briefing his crew a bit more rather than expecting them to read his mind. How would the movie have gone if Kruge had spent a moment to say: "Okay gunner .... we're not going to blow up the Grissom, I want prisoners!"
(Nitpick: the Klingon language might not be a “real language” but I also wouldnʼt consider it a “fake language” anymore; there has been at least one occasion where people who shared no natural language in common successfully communicated in Klingon)
I actually think the Duras sisters in Generations is interesting. Yes, they are goons of Soren. But they are goons who THINK they are the bosses. In a way, Star Trek Generations reminds me of the Pinky and the Brain episode Pinky's Plan in that, you have the idiot goons who are doing stuff.... that isn't their usual stupid stuff... that might actually work. Only you have the supposed genius who is doing petty personal stuff which winds up fucking it up.
You never hear speakers of Klingon mention that all scenes previous to III are gibberish. I always thought that the language was established back in TOS, like the works of Tolkien.
Ok again I'm going in before finishing the video so it may be brought up again. I'm not that kind of fan either. I love that there is a Klingon dictionary, and people cosplay for fun, but that's not me. What I don't understand is why cosplay is looked down on, but wearing a replica kit of your local sports-ball team is OK. I don't do it because I don't fell the need to do it, but why is one set good, and another doing exactly the same bad? Is it because they don't directly benefit the billionaires that own the property?
How dare you accurately portray the accent I would use while typing that actually Star Trek Nemesis may have not been the last TNG movie. "Because you wish it!" is one of my favorite lines not because "he has no reason not to be a jerk" but because of the intelligence of it. Kirk wants something. Kruge doesn't know why it may or may not be harmless or a trick. Instinctively he refuses because while he doesn't know why it's a bad idea to comply with Kirk's wishes just that it's wise not to indulge Kirk the theoretical opportunity to pull a fast one. He's playing chess against the venerable Kirk, someone his equal or perhaps better in scheming. He recognizes that granting wishes is what an overconfident, "winner of the fight" does and that he doesn't want that because that's how villains get their comeuppance. I could see it between Moriarty and Holmes. Holmes asks for a light for his pipe. Moriarty refuses not having figured out why Holmes would weaponize the innocuous but that Holmes would.
Were you joking when you said they managed to destroy Duras sisters' ship without much trouble? Cause, while we agree that should have been the case, due to just standing around and discussing antique klingon ship design, instead of returning fire, the Enterprise D was destroyed during that battle, so it sure seems like that would be considered more than "a little" trouble.
It seems like the more effort is put into making a conlang for a fictional work, the more hardcore fans are attracted to learning it (despite its uselessness outside of impressing similarly hardcore fans). Perhaps we should call this the Sindar-Worf hypothesis.
I've watched a lot of your videos but can't remember if you've ever mentioned your views on Tolkien's works. Given your general disinterest in conlangs and worldbuilding I would kind of assume you never got into them at all since that's arguably 90% of that fictional universe but I'm curious if I'm right.
Nemesis' idiot director does Worf dirty even the scene where the crew is toasting Data. In it, Picard hands everyone a glass of wine except Worf who has his hands clasped together. Then, magically, Worf is holding a glass in the next scene he's in. It always bothers me.
Star Trek VI is the only movie where the Klingons are actually interesting. No doubt that’s because the script was written by Nick Meyer, someone who actually cares about character. These are not the space Vikings of the TNG era nor are they single-minded villains of 80s era movies. Ron Moore receives a lot of praise for developing the Klingons in both TNG and DS9. But I personally never cared for his contribution, probably because his Klingons all seemed the same, always obsessed with honor and glory. In Star Trek VI, we get three very distinct characters in Gorkon, Azetbur, and Chang. Gorkon and Azetbur are far more believable as a leaders than Gowron ever was. And although Chang is the villain of the story, he doesn’t come across as one-note. It’s a shame that Meyer was fired from Discovery because I think he could’ve made that show’s Klingons far more interesting than what they ended up being.
Is it just me, or did Granddaddy Worf as defense council seem to only be going through the motions, and giving Chang soft layups in the trial scene? I mean, I guess that was the point, maybe...?
